Is "farang" Impolite?

[Neeranam]

My much better idea (repeated) is to simply ignore any perceived derogatory remarks. If you decide to react to an external influence (a "name" for example), you have simply indicated to the name caller exactly what buttons they should push to elicit a prescribed reaction from you

I disagree, if we all stand up and fight together we can change the rascism in Thailand a little. The Chinese did in decades past. Have Oriental/Chinese, for example got any more right to settle here than "Caucasians? They seem to think they have.

[elkangorito]

My much better idea (repeated) is to simply ignore any perceived derogatory remarks. If you decide to react to an external influence (a "name" for example), you have simply indicated to the name caller exactly what buttons they should push to elicit a prescribed reaction from you

I disagree, if we all stand up and fight together we can change the rascism in Thailand a little. The Chinese did in decades past. Have Oriental/Chinese, for example got any more right to settle here than "Caucasians? They seem to think they have.

Yep. That's just what we need to do...FIGHT! This is just what the world needs...more fighting. I wonder what would happen if we weren't so offensive toward each other? Considering the fact that this whole thread is about being called a "farang", is this really worth fighting over?

Edited August 29, 2008 by elkangorito

[elkangorito]

My comments in blue.

Never said you called me a wet blanket. I called you one. The logic behind the CALL THEM ORIENTALS idea is that we cannot change what the Orientals do or say, but we can change what we do or say. We must accept the Oriental Way being here in the land of the Orientals. By CALLING THEM ORIENTALS (WHICH IS STUPID!!!!) [it sure is stupid] we are using SATIRE AND IRONY to change the dynamic of the social situation between the Orientals and those of European descent in Thailand. Only you peceive to be using this "satire & irony" so far.

Somehow, I don't see your posts on this subject as being satirical or ironic. I do see an "obsession" in your posts. Unfortunately, your obsession seems quite on the offensive side of things (opposite to "defensive").

Maybe you think it is OK for the Orientals to continue with their ignorant, backward naming conventions forever. Why can't you ignore them? Some of us might want to be CHANGE AGENTS. Unfortunately, your idea of "change" is to suddenly & swiftly reduce/eliminate all things that YOU deem to be inappropriate. This is my interesting idea to be change agents. If it is not tried en masse, (movement?) we will never know the effect. Doing nothing and eating being racially stereotyped will 100 percent do nothing. The effect will be quite obvious if you have your way. Again, I cite Israel & Palestine...a never ending war.

I think your idea is DO NOTHING. Really? You obviously don't read my posts on other threads. Thats OK for you. For those who think it might at the very least be FUN to try SOMETHING, and you don't like the CALL THEM ORIENTALS idea, do you have a BETTER idea?

My much better idea (repeated) is to simply ignore any perceived derogatory remarks. If you decide to react to an external influence (a "name" for example), you have simply indicated to the name caller exactly what buttons they should push to elicit a prescribed reaction from you. Ergo, you are being controlled by them BECAUSE YOU CHOOSE TO BE. And now you wish to create a movement to prevent "name calling"? Do you know how "juvenile" this sounds? Are you not an adult, who can tolerate simple "name calling"? Were you not told as a child that those who call you names were lacking "something" & if you bought into their comments, you would be supplying them with ammunition?

Geez JT, leave Thailand & go on a "holiday"...preferably somewhere in the worst part of Africa. You may return to Thailand with a little more tolerance.

Further, would you consider the words "poof", "poofter", "fag", "faggot", "pillow biter" etc to be offensive?

Look, think before you post.

I know many people of Asian descent in the US and they have been VERY OFFENDED by being called ORIENTAL. They CHOSE to move to the US and they did what they could to change the language usage. Now it has been changed. Thailand and the US are very different places. Thailand is not a POLITICALLY CORRECT place. I don't think it will change here in the Orient in the same process as the USA. I don't appreciate being preached to. I have presented an idea, people can take it or leave it.

You are, indubitably, a buffoon of the highest order. And yes, I have resorted to "name calling" because it seems to be the only thing that you respond to with any relevance (you seem to react to "farang" quite violently). I could talk "peace" & "common sense" to you all day & you still wouldn't "get it".

Good luck with your racist "movement". I hope that you (& your followers) are happy when people are forced to change the usage of their words that you do not wish to tolerate. I pray to some sort of god that you never, in any way, shape or form, ever have power in any country. Was Idi Armin one of your relatives?

Edited August 29, 2008 by elkangorito

[who]

Is this the same 'khwai' as in 'khwai yai' ?

If you're talking about a large Oriental buffalo, yes. However I feel you are talking about something else which, in that case, no it is not the same

>Yes I was referring to 'the something else'

> If "ngo muan khwai" means "silly, funny, buffalo" or something similar, then I love it and will try to remember it. Chohk Dee

[Jingthing]

You are, indubitably, a buffoon of the highest order. And yes, I have resorted to "name calling" because it seems to be the only thing that you respond to with any relevance (you seem to react to "farang" quite violently). I could talk "peace" & "common sense" to you all day & you still wouldn't "get it".

Good luck with your racist "movement". I hope that you (& your followers) are happy when people are forced to change the usage of their words that you do not wish to tolerate. I pray to some sort of god that you never, in any way, shape or form, ever have power in any country. Was Idi Armin one of your relatives?

Is there something wrong with your thought processes? I never responded to your gay bashing or even acknowledged it until now. You probably should be banned for posting that, but will leave that up to the mods. I just ignored it because it is so off topic and tells us more about you than we probably want to know anyway.

You call my "movement" RACIST? You do realize you are saying that ORIENTALS calling people of European descent FARANG is also racist? Right? You got it? I am NOT suggesting that the Orientals change ANYTHING! I am suggesting that we just call the Orientals with the same class of word that they use on us. This doesn't sound FAIR to you? Or do you think the Orientals should have special rights?

Do you think the Orientals will think we are STUPID for calling them ORIENTALS, when we know they are Thai? I know many people of European descent think that Orientals who call us farangs when they know more about us are stupid, so I am just wondering if this perception of stupidity would go both ways?

BTW: I am not suggesting a racist idea by any means. This idea is much more in the realm of PLAYFULNESS, SATIRE, and IRONY. How could it hurt? We would just be using the same class of word to describe the ORIENTALS that they are using to describe us? Whats wrong with that?

Edited August 29, 2008 by Jingthing

[elkangorito]

You are, indubitably, a buffoon of the highest order. And yes, I have resorted to "name calling" because it seems to be the only thing that you respond to with any relevance (you seem to react to "farang" quite violently). I could talk "peace" & "common sense" to you all day & you still wouldn't "get it".

Good luck with your racist "movement". I hope that you (& your followers) are happy when people are forced to change the usage of their words that you do not wish to tolerate. I pray to some sort of god that you never, in any way, shape or form, ever have power in any country. Was Idi Armin one of your relatives?

Is there something wrong with your thought processes? I never responded to your gay bashing or even acknowledged it until now. Wow! I was gay bashing? I find this amazing since I am gay. Perhaps you carried out a "preemptive strike" with this comment without actually asking questions first? Should I begin to call you "George"? You probably should be banned for posting that, but will leave that up to the mods. Are you suggesting another "preemptive strike"? I just ignored it because it is so off topic and tells us more about you than we probably want to know anyway.

You call my "movement" RACIST?

At least you are now admitting ownership of your "movement" & as such, you now show strong motivation to actively "stamp out" the usage of the word "farang" (according to your terms & conditions). You also seem to plan to "stamp out" the usage of this word by some sort of weird retaliation, which only you & a few others understand. What if your "targets" don't understand your retaliatory methods? Will you resort to more persuasive methods?

You do realize you are saying that ORIENTALS calling people of European descent FARANG is also racist?

This is your interpretation. And yet again, why can't you ignore such remarks? By doing so, you will not only diffuse a possible nasty situation, you will also be setting an example that "farangs" are not "cry babies". Of course, setting a good example is not part of your agenda.

Right? You got it? I am NOT suggesting that the Orientals change ANYTHING! I am suggesting that we just call the Orientals with the same class of word that they use on us.

Tit for tat. An eye for an eye. This action clearly defines your actions/thoughts as being retaliatory...& against what? A name!!! And you wish to do this in the hope that others will CHANGE to your way of thinking. You also wish to create a whole movement against your perceived "incorrect usage" of the word "farang". Then again, maybe I'm wrong. Maybe you may wish to create a movement whereby all of your "followers" call Thai people (& others, according to your "movements" criteria) "oriental"? This is, in no way, setting a good example. School children behave better than this.

This doesn't sound FAIR to you? Or do you think the Orientals should have special rights?

There is nothing fair or unfair about this. There is simply YOU who is waging a campaign against the usage of the word "farang".

Your whole concept is puerile. You are beginning to sound like the Spanish Inquisition.

Do you think the Orientals will think we are STUPID for calling them ORIENTALS, when we know they are Thai? I know many people of European descent think that Orientals who call us farangs when they know more about us are stupid, so I am just wondering if this perception of stupidity would go both ways?

BTW: I am not suggesting a racist idea by any means. This idea is much more in the realm of PLAYFULNESS, SATIRE, and IRONY. How could it hurt?

I think that you are the only person who sees the PLAYFULNESS, SATIRE, and IRONY in what you wish to do. If you are being true to yourself, you wish to create a playful, satirical & ironical "movement", purely to extinguish the incorrect use of the word "farang".

You are clearly beyond salvation.

We would just be using the same class of word to describe the ORIENTALS that they are using to describe us? Whats wrong with that?

Anyway, you have received far too much attention for one day & it may not be healthy for you to get too "worked up". I think it's time for you to take your medication & calmly go STRAIGHT back to your room. Afterall, it's warmer inside your room & you won't need a JACKET to keep you warm.

[Jingthing]

I will take your advice and ignore you from now on, except for one point.

I never said tell Orientals to not call us farangs. I did say go ahead, have some fun, call the Orientals Orientals. Its a yin yang. Its a balance. That is all.

[elkangorito]

I will take your advice and ignore you from now on, except for one point.

I never said tell Orientals to not call us farangs. I did say go ahead, have some fun, call the Orientals Orientals. Its a yin yang. Its a balance. That is all.

I won't ignore you...you're too much fun

[Kilgore Trout]

I do not agree with your students view that Thai use of the world farang is impolite. If a Thai wants to make the word farang into something impolite and derogatory they would normally use the phrase "farang keenok" which literally translates into farang bird shit .

If thats true, answer me this then; why when I wait in line to order food, if someone is busy they usually say; there is a falang waiting, or if I set something up the person calling someone on the phone says "I have a falang here who wants..." etc., etc., etc. I could go on all day with these examples and I'm sure many other people could do the same.

Here is the clincher; I just moved back to my US city after 8 years in Thailand only to find a Thai restaurant in my neighborhood called "Thai Farang Connection." Apparently they have been telling people that the word "falang" means "foreigner;" in addition to that being an outright lie, here in this country they are the foreigners. I find the whole idea offensive.

It is a clear and cut way of Thai people having their cake and eating it too. They take offense to anyone belittling them in any way anwhere in the world (even when they are the guests in another's country) yet they use this word. Unfortunately there is not a word in English which means the same thing (a blanket word for south east asians), the closest I can think of is "gook" which is a word I would never use.

Wake up and smell the coffee.

[Jingthing]

I think the word FARANG is mildly offensive in the same way the word ORIENTAL is in the US. It is also very funny how Thais abroad even when they become the small minority STILL call people of European descent FARANGS (yes they do!). They also call the countries they are in with the non-Thais FARANGLAND. So it follows that expats here in Orientalland should follow suit and call our hosts ORIENTALS? In Orientalland?

Edited August 29, 2008 by Jingthing

[Jockstar]

You must be black or even Asian??

Maybe Scottish?

[wolf5370]

I don't take offense personally. I think of it as a collective noun. Thailand, not being part of some western empire at one time or another, missed out on the 'delights' of us superior whites lording over the indigenous population. When those self safe nations came back to our lands, we treated them as low class and used such collective nouns in a derogatory sense. These groups fought against the prejudice and the west has over time became less and less racist. Words that were used to segregate, belittle/demean and keep these races down were abandoned by the general populous (and left to the bigots who are no longer our heroes but embarrassing pariahs).

Thailand never went through this. Visitors were either captured enemies (slaves), or traders. They were (and are) grouped. Us whities became Farangs (whatever the original of the term). Its not meant in the same way that us westerners used it to keep our conquered majorities down, but as a descriptor. Of course, Thailand has its bigots too that use these terms as insults.

So, don't take offense - unless used by a bigot!. We can not judge the sentiment behind this term using western values as we do not share the same history or culture.

Enuf said.

Oh, and JT you where looking for a slightly harsher word for us - how about มันสีขาว (Man See Khao - White thing (or literally "It coloured white").

Edited August 30, 2008 by wolf5370

[HS Mauberley]

You are, indubitably, a buffoon of the highest order. And yes, I have resorted to "name calling" because it seems to be the only thing that you respond to with any relevance (you seem to react to "farang" quite violently). I could talk "peace" & "common sense" to you all day & you still wouldn't "get it".

Good luck with your racist "movement". I hope that you (& your followers) are happy when people are forced to change the usage of their words that you do not wish to tolerate. I pray to some sort of god that you never, in any way, shape or form, ever have power in any country. Was Idi Armin one of your relatives?

Is there something wrong with your thought processes? I never responded to your gay bashing or even acknowledged it until now. You probably should be banned for posting that, but will leave that up to the mods. I just ignored it because it is so off topic and tells us more about you than we probably want to know anyway.

You call my "movement" RACIST? You do realize you are saying that ORIENTALS calling people of European descent FARANG is also racist? Right? You got it? I am NOT suggesting that the Orientals change ANYTHING! I am suggesting that we just call the Orientals with the same class of word that they use on us. This doesn't sound FAIR to you? Or do you think the Orientals should have special rights?

Do you think the Orientals will think we are STUPID for calling them ORIENTALS, when we know they are Thai? I know many people of European descent think that Orientals who call us farangs when they know more about us are stupid, so I am just wondering if this perception of stupidity would go both ways?

BTW: I am not suggesting a racist idea by any means. This idea is much more in the realm of PLAYFULNESS, SATIRE, and IRONY. How could it hurt? We would just be using the same class of word to describe the ORIENTALS that they are using to describe us? Whats wrong with that?

The astonishing thing about you Jingthing is not that you are so effortlessly asinine but that you have managed to maintain such stupendous levels of bull-headed ignorance over 6,000 posts. That in itself should be recognised. Of course, being the pub bore who never notices that everyone else has long ago gone home, muttering 'what a tedious, ignorant little <deleted> he was', you'll always make the bore's mistake of confusing persistence for intelligence. Nevertheless, congratulations - of a sort - are surely in order.

[LooseCannon]

The astonishing thing about you Jingthing is not that you are so effortlessly asinine but that you have managed to maintain such stupendous levels of bull-headed ignorance over 6,000 posts. That in itself should be recognised. Of course, being the pub bore who never notices that everyone else has long ago gone home, muttering 'what a tedious, ignorant little <deleted> he was', you'll always make the bore's mistake of confusing persistence for intelligence. Nevertheless, congratulations - of a sort - are surely in order.

Professional victim & scapegoat spring to mind.

I suspect it has been a lifetime journey.

[LooseCannon]

I think the word FARANG is mildly offensive in the same way the word ORIENTAL is in the US. It is also very funny how Thais abroad even when they become the small minority STILL call people of European descent FARANGS (yes they do!). They also call the countries they are in with the non-Thais FARANGLAND. So it follows that expats here in Orientalland should follow suit and call our hosts ORIENTALS? In Orientalland?

If you find being referred to as a 'farang' so upsetting, why do you not approach the speaker, introduce yourself & explain to them in your best polite Thai why you find if offensive. Maybe they will take note or maybe they will ignore you, who knows, but education is the key, not some childish tit-for-tat name calling.

[GaiYaang]

The astonishing thing about you Jingthing is not that you are so effortlessly asinine but that you have managed to maintain such stupendous levels of bull-headed ignorance over 6,000 posts. That in itself should be recognised. Of course, being the pub bore who never notices that everyone else has long ago gone home, muttering 'what a tedious, ignorant little <deleted> he was', you'll always make the bore's mistake of confusing persistence for intelligence. Nevertheless, congratulations - of a sort - are surely in order.

Professional victim & scapegoat spring to mind.

I suspect it has been a lifetime journey.

JingThing going cuckoo with farang? He must be sleeping right now. When he gets up he will have a piece of everybody.

If you want a piece of me please go to KFC.

JingThing = Khon Farang Crazy

[JohnBanPrang]

I'm a bit confused.Aperantly some don't like to be called farang.

Yet most of us have no problem saying the word ARAB even if they come

from different countries too.

Personally you can call me anything just don't call me up early in the morning.

[jimjam23]

I have only been called farang once in an impolite manner. It was by a taxi driver sitting with his friends whom I had turned down for a job (he wanted twice the going rate).

- I simply smiled and replied in a 'jai yen' tone; 'nice one bell end', to which he smiled back.

[desi]

Good Lord, how difficult can it be?

Farang: Collective noun used to describe someone of caucasian appearance.

Thai: Collective noun used to describe a citizen of Thailand.

You don't see the Thais getting bent out of shape every time they are referred to as Kon Thai. Why do Kon Farang have to have such a big chip on their shoulder about this.

JJ

Exactly! I have my Thai friends. And because I'm not Thai, I don't use Farang (Caucasian) when needing a label, but separate out the rest - Chinese, English, American, English, Scottish, yadda yadda. Simple.

Note: Caucasian |kôˈkā zh ən|

adjective

1 often offensive of or relating to one of the traditional divisions of humankind, covering a broad group of peoples from Europe, western Asia, and parts of India and North Africa. [ORIGIN: so named because the German physiologist Blumenbach believed that it originated in the Caucasus region of southeastern Europe.]

• white-skinned; of European origin.

noun

often offensive a Caucasian person.

• a white person; a person of European origin.

USAGE In the racial classification as developed by anthropologists in the 19th century, Caucasian (or Caucasoid) included peoples whose skin color ranged from light (in northern Europe) to dark (in parts of North Africa and India). Although the classification is outdated and the categories are now not generally accepted as scientific ( see usage at Australoid and Mongoloid ), the term Caucasian has acquired a more restricted meaning. It is now used, esp. in the U.S., as a synonym for ‘white or of European origin,’ as in the following citation: : the police are looking for a Caucasian male in his forties.

Often offensive? First time I've heard of it...

[kmart]

Some of you peeps really need to get out more. Get a hobby. Get a job. Get a life. <deleted>.

Perhaps when your self-esteem levels are back to normal, you might not notice every little perceived slight to your fragile, little shoe-gazing egos? ...Just a thought.

[culicine]

I guess the word farang is conveneint for Thais to use, thought it just groups us all together as being the 'same'. I'm pretty sure, though, i don't have much in common with a Swede or Fin. Unless someone can enlighten me, i understand there is no Thai word for 'asian'. That's a shame as we counld just refer to Thais as asians, as they are just the same as the Cambodians, Burmese, Malasian, right? Though I'm pretty sure most Thais don't give a crap what we think, as to what is polite or impolite anyway.

[Neeranam]

Let's have a poll on what was mentioned in another thread.

[barky]

This topic has kinda exhausted itself lately. Wait a week or two and it will be topical again.

However, in short the answer is both yes and no. As a word in isolation it is not impolite.

But, importantly, it depends on the context/situation/tone etc. It can in fact be used extremely impolitely in a rude racist way.

Yes and No is my answer.

[onethailand]

Back in your home country, you would almost certainly be referring to them as Asians, because you cannot always tell exactly which country they come from.

What Thais do by referring to a Caucasian as "farang" is no different.

[HS Mauberley]

What!? Not replying on that exemplary piece of research you carried out in class? Why ever not?

[barky]

Good morning

Yes its morning here in NL.

Keep up on 'farang"

How can some (almost nice) person here call Thai woman hooker ? and compare to the word we call (insult) them "farang"

Agree with Thithi that the word hooker is so much worse to call we that...and if you can compare Thai woman as a hooker then I would call you "f***ker" it would be similar word

If anyone who dont like the "farang" word then tell people your name / nationality and how you like to be calls.

A stupid unworkable idea.

If westeners did that it would take up far too much time.

Most here would agree that the word is OK if used correcly not as a negative like it often is . The problem is the word is used in every situation in every context and often it is used inappropriately. There are many words that Thais could use to talk to/about/with a westener.

Yes sometimes Farang is perpectly apt, but just as often it is not, it's used in a derogitory/negative/racist way. This point has been brought up time and time again, but some Thais just don't want to understand, or they don't have sufficient intellegence, or have their racism so ingrained to be unable to understand this important distinction in the use of the word appropriately.

REMEMBER many are inserting THEIR cultures and values upon another's. Whether it's "proper or polite"?...it's their culture, they do it...some like farangs some don't. Who are we to say what is correct or incorrect unless we speak the language and FULLY understand the culture? Many Thais have said here it's OK but I also understand the country folk may use it out of ease, meaning no harm while city folk may opt for a slur. All up to the individual. Earn respect and you'll get it.

In part I agree. But your last sentence is utterly rediculous in most situations. What is this earn respect stuff? In a workplace situation Ok, in a relationship situation Ok , but out on the street minding your own business, in the store as a shopper, sitting down in the restaurant, inquiring at a service counter etc etc. Why is respect for an individual not freely given automatically instead of said individual having to earn/seek that respect in the first place?

A case in point:

Westener goes to service counter to ask a staff member for directions or make an enquiry.

Staff turns around to rest of office staff and shouts out "falang wants to know if....?"

Not customer/gentleman/client/etc "falang"

Oh shit I know why. The westener didn't earn their respect.

[ray23]

In all honesty yuo will see a lot rudness on a forum then in real life, Face to face encountres are seldom d rude.

I think farrangs are a lot moer straigh forwrd then Thais' If a farrang doesn't like some one, yuo wonl;t seee him smiling and shal king ahnds with that person. They will usually just avoid contact. Rude I don;t think just real.

Thai's on the other hand will smile and Wai thier worst enemy, honest no, ride no.

I have seen farrangs usually described a the pot belly beer swiggin tourist types, that are in fact very rude. But win thier home area they more then lilely will conduct themsleves very differently.

I have seen some very ride Thai's not in words but behavoir, drivers example, cutting into lines ect. The think nothing of that but we see it as very rude behavior.

Reaching over someones head, very rude to Thai's but we really don't think to much of it, if there is a reason for it.

So I would say hard to answer with a yes or no. But I picked no.

I think it really depends on what is rude in each cluture. Belching after a meal in China a compliment to the host, rude as hel_l in Western Culture

[siamamerican]

The use of farang is of little consequence. It's odd though when they use farang when there isn't a need to categorize and a simple pronoun would suffice.

With all the American haters, I'm thrilled they don't call me Yankee.

[meadish_sweetball]

Don't you love it when parents point to the overweight white dude and say to their children: "doo farang, tua yai maak!" (Look at the fat foreigner)

Thai education at its best.

Tua yai means large, not fat. Tall people who are not fat, but muscular, are also tua yai.

[mizzi39]

I guess the word farang is conveneint for Thais to use, thought it just groups us all together as being the 'same'. I'm pretty sure, though, i don't have much in common with a Swede or Fin. Unless someone can enlighten me, i understand there is no Thai word for 'asian'. That's a shame as we counld just refer to Thais as asians, as they are just the same as the Cambodians, Burmese, Malasian, right? Though I'm pretty sure most Thais don't give a crap what we think, as to what is polite or impolite anyway.

Maybe there is no Thai word for Asian, but Thais know that they are Asian, or part of the Asian race. If I ask my wife, in laws, or any other Thai "What race are you?" There response will be "Asian." Hope this enlightens you a little bit.

Contrary to what many people posted on these 21 pages (and growing) the term "farang" is not meant to be degrading or racist. People that feel this way should really get in touch with there emotions or like another post said, find a hobby!