Is "farang" Impolite?

[JohnBanPrang]

Apparently your the only judge here JT.

Start judging yourself.

I don't now where you come from.

But if you are Farang, shame on you.

Try harder.

[Jingthing]

Apparently your the only judge here JT.

Start judging yourself.

I don't now where you come from.

But if you are Farang, shame on you.

Try harder.

I am not a farang. Farang is an Oriental construct I don't recognize as anything but ignorance. There is no such as a farang except in the minds of ignorant Orientals who for whatever cultural/personal reasons group together a huge myriad of people/cultures/nationalities/languages/histories into one big pot that only exists in their uneducated minds.

There are no farangs. There is no farangland. As long as we play along and call ourselves and each other farang, we are simply participating in an ignorant DELUSION.

Shame on me? Hmmmm.

Are you an oriental?

What has really been interesting about this semi-satirical, semi-serious exercise in a bit of toxic wordplay is the strong emotional reactions to it: I should be ashamed/I am racist/I am anti-Oriental/I am insane and in need of medication/I am too sensitive/I am politically correct/I am politically incorrect/I am ethnocentric. I cannot possibly be ALL of these contradictory things, now can I?

I have learned something from this Oriental thing. I have changed my mind and I plan on changing my behavior. I will no longer call myself a farang. I will no longer refer to anyone else as a farang. I will not answer to FARANG like a dog. I suggest others think about learning the same lessons. By playing along, we are just patronizing a form of IGNORANCE here.

Edited August 30, 2008 by Jingthing

[Neeranam]

I have learned something from this Oriental thing. I have changed my mind and I plan on changing my behavior. I will no longer call myself a farang. I will no longer refer to anyone else as a farang. I will not answer to FARANG like a dog. I suggest others think about learning the same lessons. By playing along, we are just patronizing a form of IGNORANCE here.

Amen! This thread has served a purpose if at least one white expat stops caling himself and other like him, "farang".

I'll be doing the same. Some of the people here are so brainwashed, can't speak Thai, live in Pattaya, or just plain stupid that they can't see how rascist it. They're an embarassment to our individual countries. I live in Khon Kaen and it makes me want to throw up when I see/hear the straight off the boat, fat retired steel-worker from Kansas, the civilservant from Colchester, or the seaman from Oslo arrive saying , "me farang you tee rak"

Edited August 30, 2008 by Neeranam

[HS Mauberley]

Apparently your the only judge here JT.

Start judging yourself.

I don't now where you come from.

But if you are Farang, shame on you.

Try harder.

I am not a farang. Farang is an Oriental construct I don't recognize as anything but ignorance. There is no such as a farang except in the minds of ignorant Orientals who for whatever cultural/personal reasons group together a huge myriad of people/cultures/nationalities/languages/histories into one big pot that only exists in their uneducated minds.

There are no farangs. There is no farangland. As long as we play along and call ourselves and each other farang, we are simply participating in an ignorant DELUSION.

....(mindless rambling deleted)....I have learned something from this Oriental thing. I have changed my mind and I plan on changing my behavior. I will no longer call myself a farang. I will no longer refer to anyone else as a farang. I will not answer to FARANG like a dog. I suggest others think about learning the same lessons. By playing along, we are just patronizing a form of IGNORANCE here.

Hmm. You seem to have come away from your statement- and I quote - "Yes, it (farang) can be used in a derogatory way. It can also be neutral. It can also be positive." Still, following your usual approach to debate (something which, it has to be said, you wouldn't recognise if it gave you a blow job and proposed) this is no doubt 'off topic' but you know you were correct about 18-odd pages ago. You've now got yourself into a bit of a tizz so go for a lie down and turn your computer off for at least 2 days. When you next turn it on, order from Amazon one book on Pragmatics and one on Sociolinguistics, study them and then think about how words with semantic content can be contextually defined.

[Jingthing]

Thank you, Neeranam, I do hope others will give this some more thought and STOP PLAYING ALONG WITH THE IGNORANCE.

I can assure you of one thing.

The Korean American in the USA when he encounters an ignorant old cracker/redneck who calls him an ORIENTAL, I can assure you, the Korean American does not play along and call himself and other people from all over pan-Asia ORIENTALS. So what is it with European descent people in Orientalland? Self hatred?

Edited August 30, 2008 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

Hmm. You seem to have come away from your statement- and I quote - "Yes, it (farang) can be used in a derogatory way. It can also be neutral. It can also be positive." Still, following your usual approach to debate (something which, it has to be said, you wouldn't recognise if it gave you a blow job and proposed) this is no doubt 'off topic' but you know you were correct about 18-odd pages ago. You've now got yourself into a bit of a tizz so go for a lie down and turn your computer off for at least 2 days. When you next turn it on, order from Amazon one book on Pragmatics and one on Sociolinguistics, study them and then think about how words with semantic content can be contextually defined.

I have grown. That was then. This is now. I am not running for office so you call me a flip flopper and I will just chuckle. Intelligent people change their minds based on new thought and information. For me, what made the sea change was the ORIENTAL language usage exercise. It really made me see things from a different perspective (both the actual practice of it and people's bizarre reactions to it even more so) and also SEE THE LIGHT. I suggest you try it!

Edited August 30, 2008 by Jingthing

[HS Mauberley]

So words with semantic content are not contextually defined? How is this so? Please enlighten us.

Edit: And please also explain your language usage exercise (sic). How many Thais did you accost in the street with the call "Hey, oriental"? When ordering your bowl of noodles at Champ, how did the truck drivers respond? Was there a significant difference in response by age, socio-economic group, etc, etc?

Nice to see the capitalisation still going on and, indeed, that you've added colouring and varying typeface to your repertoire. You posts look increasingly like the work of a hyperactive child who's been underdosed on Ritalin.

Edited August 30, 2008 by HS Mauberley

[Neeranam]

So words with semantic content are not contextually defined? How is this so? Please enlighten us.

How on earth can someone who can't speak a word of Thai preach about how "farang" is ok?

And how many months exactly have you been listening to how Orientals talk about"farang"?

Edited August 30, 2008 by Neeranam

[HS Mauberley]

How on earth can someone who can't speak a word of Thai preach about how "farang" is ok?

Can I answer a question with a question or two? Thanks. How can you possibly pretend to know how good (or bad) my Thai is? And did you not notice that my point was about language generally? (That is, for those of you with learning difficulties, why, for example, can rappers say 'nigger' but rednecks can't?)

And how many months exactly have you been listening to how Orientals talk about"farang"?

Around 100, thanks. And you ?

[F1fanatic]

How many threads can you have on the one topic??

So I'll just repeat -

I really can't believe how blind some people can be!

At the end of the day, they don't actually like us (in general), get on with it, accept it, and try to change their minds about us individually.

Let's face it, why should they like us?! Their women flock to any old (falang) man who's going because he's got more money than they can hope to have!

Christ, the old saying about the yanks of 'overpaid, oversexed and over here' has got nothing on the falangs here!!

[Maigo6]

So words with semantic content are not contextually defined? How is this so? Please enlighten us.

How on earth can someone who can't speak a word of Thai preach about how "farang" is ok?

And how many months exactly have you been listening to how Orientals talk about"farang"?

Neeranam, you really ought to get a hobby or something.

You're a Farang, so am I, what's the big deal ?

If you had stayed in Scotland, you would have been just another nobody, at least in Thailand you can have a semblance of respectability, yet you're still a Farang, always have been, always will be.

I just cannot fathom out the problem you have with the fact that you're Farang! So what!!!!!!

Would you rather be a Pakistani in UK ? If you say yes, cos he has more rights than you have in Thailand, you know what I'm gonna say!!

GO HOME!!!!!! Get the same rights, <deleted> stop fawking whining!!!!!

Right You wanna be Thai, you wanna give up your UK passport and change it for a Thai Passport ?

Yes----No ?

Stop whinging and get with the program, if you ain't happy then adjust your life accordingly!

[Maigo6]

I really can't believe how blind some people can be!

At the end of the day, they don't actually like us

That's how blind some people can be!

[who]

Maybe there is no Thai word for Asian, but Thais know that they are Asian, or part of the Asian race. If I ask my wife, in laws, or any other Thai "What race are you?" There response will be "Asian." Hope this enlightens you a little bit.

Contrary to what many people posted on these 21 pages (and growing) the term "farang" is not meant to be degrading or racist. People that feel this way should really get in touch with there emotions or like another post said, find a hobby!

They already have a hobby: Playing 'professional victum'.

[who]

I am not a farang. Farang is an Oriental construct I don't recognize as anything but ignorance. There is no such as a farang except in the minds of ignorant Orientals who for whatever cultural/personal reasons group together a huge myriad of people/cultures/nationalities/languages/histories into one big pot that only exists in their uneducated minds.

These boards are hugely educational and contain a myriad of bits of information. e.g. until today I had no idea that one could have "a huge myriad" of anything. That must be a 'very large amount' of an 'infinite number'. Mind numbing.

[Neeranam]

How on earth can someone who can't speak a word of Thai preach about how "farang" is ok?

Can I answer a question with a question or two? Thanks. How can you possibly pretend to know how good (or bad) my Thai is? And did you not notice that my point was about language generally? (That is, for those of you with learning difficulties, why, for example, can rappers say 'nigger' but rednecks can't?)

And how many months exactly have you been listening to how Orientals talk about"farang"?

Around 100, thanks. And you ?

You said before you cold't speak Thai. Aren't you emabarrassed after 100 months?

[JohnBanPrang]

To WHO.

Who the f#$k are you

Soon I'm going to like you.

Be carfull, you don't know where I'm from.

[Jingthing]

until today I had no idea that one could have "a huge myriad" of anything. That must be a 'very large amount' of an 'infinite number'. Mind numbing.

Yeah, that was silly. Thanks, teach!

Y'ALL may be farangs, but I ain't no stinkin' farang no more no way. I have broken out of the farang shell casing and am now a BUTTERFLY! Free to be, you and me, tra la la tra la la ...

Edited August 30, 2008 by Jingthing

[Neeranam]

If you had stayed in Scotland, you would have been just another nobody, at least in Thailand you can have a semblance of respectability, yet you're still a Farang, always have been, always will be.

I just cannot fathom out the problem you have with the fact that you're Farang! So what!!!!!!

Speak for yourself - you might have been a nobody.

You just don't get it - how many years did you live in Pattaya?

[dutchguest]

23 pages untill now about practically nothing and I am glad I also can make a contribution:

Genarally I don't care being called farang, I use the word myself also because it is easy and everybody knows what you mean. I have to admit that sometimes it can sound a little bit hostile, like a "we and you" separation, but like is said before, it all depends on the context and the way it is spoken.

Sometimes I get the impression Thais are trying to imitate the ways they think farang behave, because farang like it that way; they try to act like they think is normal in farangland, loud voice, familiar tone. May be because they think that's the way farang do those things and behave among eachother.

But you must be able to relativate things and take some distance from your subject to be able to see things in the right perspective and proportions:"Like a fish in the water knows only the waterworld, some expats in Thailand cannot look beyond their element, Thailand and the Thais, and see things in a broader perspective". (Mao)

[Jingthing]

Dutch, you sound so wise.

What is the "right" perspective? On first glance that sounds like poppycock. But maybe you can be more specific.

Instead of mouthing platitudes like right perspective, why don't you tell us YOUR perspective? Otherwise, what's the point?

Edited August 30, 2008 by Jingthing

[Nongwahyay]

Is this thread never going to end?? When it reaches the stage that participants are contunuously insulting each other, then the time to end has long been surpassed...................... leave it guys and gals...... it´s all been said now........

[LooseCannon]

Last weekend, I was asked to teach an intensive course to 4th year, university Sociolgy Students.

I taught them about describing one's ethnicity but first asked them to fill in a group questionaire as to what was polite to say in Thailand.

I found the results interesting but actually thought as much:-

1 - Black - polite

2 - Kaek(Indian) - impolite

3 - Jaek (Chinese) - impolite

4 - Farang - impolite

PLease don't embarass yourselves by calling yourself a farang.

All too often we read about the sad state of affairs that is the 'Thai education system' & I am beginning to see why.

You have conducted a simplistic poll & getting the results that coincide with your preconceived ideas, you then fail to perform any

objective analysis of said results.

I conducted my own unscientific poll & asked 3 Thai ladies the same question.

These are their 3 replies... "not really", "sometimes" & a very hesitant "no".

Then, unlike you, I actually instigated a discussion to try to expand on these somewhat non-committal answers.

Here is the general consensus of opinion:

'Farang' can be impolite, it can be neutral, but is not considered to be 'very' polite. For the most part it is just a descriptive

word for a 'white skinned foreigner' with absolutely no negative connotations.

When the word 'farang' is used, the implied degree of disrespect & rudeness is dependant on a number of factors - the context &

situation where it is used, & the educational level of the speaker.

For example, amongst well-educated people it can be considered to be very impolite, but if there is no 'farang' present, it is

quite likely that they would use the word.

For people with a low standard of education the word 'farang' is just a useful word to describe a 'white skinned foreigner' with no

disrespect intended. The concept of somebody being 'European' or 'American' is not part their thinking.

If you walk down the streets of Pattaya with your current 'squeeze' the chances are that 'farang' will be used in a derogatory

manner, walk through a village anywhere in Thailand, the friendly locals will call you 'farang' & invite you into their house &

give you the shirt off their back.

For somebody with your vast experience of Thailand, I would have thought that you would know that nothing is black & white in

Thailand but rather an infinite number of shades of grey. This applies to the usage of the 'F' word.

[Jingthing]

Good post, LC!

You have provided the best argument yet why we as European descent foreigners here should NOT use the F word. Educated Thais know better than to use it in our company. When we use it, we are modeling after the most ignorant, uneducated segments of this society. We should not do that here, unless you are also an ignoramus in your home country and prefer to be one here.

We do not need to use this word, we only lower ourselves here by doing so.

Edited August 31, 2008 by Jingthing

[ray23]

Well I think it is very important to be true to yourself, personally the word doesn't bother me one bit. Thailand to be politically correct towards foreigners that will be the day. Bigoted people yep you would have to blind not to see that, built right inro the system. I'm a better person then you becuase I have a lighter colored skin. Millions made on that one. Look all the skin care items made to make your skin white. Yep that is racist, it also Thailand.

On my econd trip her to sopend threee months in Udon, I sit next to a very nice lady on the plane who spoke perfect english. She said he was unhappy about foriegners ( not farrangs) coming here because they wanted to change Thailand. I didn't understand then, I was looking for a place o build a life m for myself. Well seven years later I understand.

The Udon that I fell in love is pretty much gone in a very short period of time.

I have made my home the way myself and my wife want. Outside of my space I take it like it comes, return to those aspects I enjoy and don't attend those I don't. When I first came here anyone who could speak english at all wanted to talk to you, foriegner or Thai. Not anymore not as many smiles out there anymore. Grim looking foriegners walking around.

You greet a foriegner here now and he look like he better check and make sure you haven't just taken his wallet. That is pretty much about like Los Angeles, the place I left, looks like it followed me.

As to these people being ignorant if the need should arise I will take my wifes survival skills over any of you any day.

Careful what you wish for.

Edited August 31, 2008 by ray23

[Naam]

I have made my home the way myself and my wife want. Outside of my space I take it like it comes..

all said, nothing to add. for those who think differently i say "Señores Don Quijotes, keep up the good job fighting windmills. an excellent pastime and substitute for those who don't have a live."

[JimShortz]

Ok, that's it THREAD CLOSED to avoid wasting any more of people's time reading this meaningless drivel...

Aah, I keep forgetting - I'm not a moderator. Bo***x

Edited August 31, 2008 by JimShortz

[LooseCannon]

Good post, LC!

You have provided the best argument yet why we as European descent foreigners here should NOT use the F word. Educated Thais know better than to use it in our company. When we use it, we are modeling after the most ignorant, uneducated segments of this society. We should not do that here, unless you are also an ignoramus in your home country and prefer to be one here.

We do not need to use this word, we only lower ourselves here by doing so.

While it is nice that you agree with me, I do think that you have missed the point.

The Thai language can be very coarse & 'down to earth',but also on the other hand it can be very precise & structured in it's word

usage. The language variant used is very dependent on a person's social status & educational level.

Words that are acceptable in the lower strata of Thai society might be considered to be impolite as you move into the upper

echelons, but this does not make those words impolite or derogatory per se.

We as 'farangs' are generally seen to be without class & theoretically can move seamlessly between the various social strata of

Thai society & adjust are behaviour accordingly. If I was ever to move in the 'hi-so' circles of Bangkok, I could probably make

comment to Marcel Marceau being an Alsatian & be fairly confident that this would be understood as reference to him being a native

of Alsace. Of course if I was ever in an Isaan village talking to an old lady & the subject of mime came up, I would naturally

refer to Marcel Marceau as a 'farang'. This doesn't make the old lady ignorant or somebody we have to lower ourselves down to,

it just means that from her frame of reference, he is a 'farang' & no further precision is required.

I have no problem with my Thai family & friends referring to unknown 'white skinned foreigners' that we see on the street as

'farang'. Alternatively I am never referred to as 'the farang', but always by my name, and any visitors are always informed of my

name & get quickly corrected if they refer to me as the 'farang'.

It all comes down to context & situation.

[mr_hippo]

Thingthing, according to dictionaries and friends, the Thai word 'farang' means 'caucasian'. If you are caucasian then the Thai will call you farang. You have said in early ramblings that the word farang can be bad, good or neutral - you certainly believe in covering all bases!

Good post, LC!

You have provided the best argument yet why we as European descent foreigners here should NOT use the F word. Educated Thais know better than to use it in our company. When we use it, we are modeling after the most ignorant, uneducated segments of this society. We should not do that here, unless you are also an ignoramus in your home country and prefer to be one here.

We do not need to use this word, we only lower ourselves here by doing so.

Wow, three people were asked and in LC's post we see "'Farang' can be impolite, it can be neutral, but is not considered to be 'very' polite... " You, yourself, have said that it 'can be bad, good or neutral' as can all words! If you call me English - good; call Jock McTavish English - that's bad, very bad!

[LooseCannon]

Amen! This thread has served a purpose if at least one white expat stops caling himself and other like him, "farang".

I'll be doing the same. Some of the people here are so brainwashed, can't speak Thai, live in Pattaya, or just plain stupid that they can't see how rascist it. They're an embarassment to our individual countries. I live in Khon Kaen and it makes me want to throw up when I see/hear the straight off the boat, fat retired steel-worker from Kansas, the civilservant from Colchester, or the seaman from Oslo arrive saying , "me farang you tee rak"

You forgot to include the third-rate academic from Buttf*ck, North Dakota.

[ray23]

Intersting it all sarted with a poll are Foriegner Polite ( for the politicaly correct folks )

Then pages of what has been argued since I joined this forum,.

Oh well gives some something to do I'm done have fun guys.