Actually, in my line of business I work with a lot of Hindus, Sikhs, and Muslims, and both I and they would probably consider it very rude if I were always going around wishing them a 'Merry Christmas' this time of year! It only takes a little thought and consideration.

Why would you consider it rude?

I work with Muslims in a Muslim country and 2 months ago i was getting texts with Eid Mubarak, i wasn't offended. I understand their holy holidays, why do you find it rude that they don't have the courtesy to understand your religion.

Um, because I have awareness, sensitivity, and consideration, and I don't make the lack of awareness of others an excuse to be rude myself? Didn't think it would seem so puzzling to anyone....

It totally baffles most of the world. An enormous percentage of Westerners demand that Muslims be exactly like them. Message boards and letters to the editors are full of rants demanding to know why they should respect Muslim traditions etc when there is "no" respect in return.

They can only see a small minority of fanatics and the Christians have just as many if not more in their ranks.

There appears to be no solution and the future could easily lead to ethnic cleansing on a scale that will make the Nazis and Stalinists look like choirboys.

Personally I hope I die before it happens, I have no progeny and the scum on both sides can get on with it. All I can say is God help the decent people of the world, there has rarely been a time when proof of His existence was more greatly needed.

Actually, in my line of business I work with a lot of Hindus, Sikhs, and Muslims, and both I and they would probably consider it very rude if I were always going around wishing them a 'Merry Christmas' this time of year! It only takes a little thought and consideration.

Why would it be considered rude to wish someone happiness? I have known a great many muslims and hindus and we'd always wish each other a happy Christmas, send each other Christmas cards and go to Christmas parties. Some might find it a bit odd, but rude? Of course not.

Similarly in the years I've been in Thailand I have good fun joining in the Songkran celebrations and have Thai people wishing me "happy new year" and "happy songkran", and of course I'm happy to return the compliment. How could anyone think of this kind of thing as rude???

I too wish people Merry Christmas, although I do not attach any religious significance to the saying or the holiday (stop trying to smack me with those hand-clappers suegha !! ).

I would like to think that other people would be tolderant as well. If someone wishes me a Happy Hannukah/Kwanzaa/Songkran/Eid, why should I not be able to respond in kind to holidays I celebrate ?

Unfortunately, too many people in this world are intolerant (and no, not just Muslims). Despite, or because of the teachings of various religions, some believe so strongly, that to even acknowledge that another religion exists is viewed as an attack on their own faith.

(Remember that many religions all think their god is "the" god, and they are the chosen ones. Even amongst religions that theoretically believe in the same god !)

Argh ! Another could of electrons just flashed in my brain.

If you believe in (pick one), and that (your choice) is the only diety, and you are the "chosen ones", then why are there so many religions and so many gods ?

Because if (your choice) gave you the free will to believe in (him/her/it/them), would (he/she/it/them) not have also given that same free will to the people that believe in "false" dieties ?

Is this supposed to be some kind of weird test of faith, to let some of (his/hers/it's/their) followers believe in a totally different faith, in the expectation that if they ever want to be "saved" they have to convert to the "correct" faith ? (Many religions believe that non-believers go straight to what ever place of damnation)

(Keep in mind that if this were the case, it would have happened 10s of thousands of years ago, to peoples scattered around the globe, that had absolutely no way of knowing anyone else even existed on the planet).

Besides (back on topic, sort of) if the Bahrain International Airport can have Christmas Displays including Santa Clause robots (with "Happy Holiday" banners), maybe there is a wee, tiny smidgen of hope for the planet.

Nah, who am I kidding. You are all DOOMED ! DOOMED I SAY ! To the Fiery Pits of (insert favourite place of damnation here, mine is a Pattaya pretty much as it exists now) !!!!!

Um, because I have awareness, sensitivity, and consideration, and I don't make the lack of awareness of others an excuse to be rude myself? Didn't think it would seem so puzzling to anyone....

It's a pity that the people you mix with make you feel that way. I was asked today (by a Saudi) if i was going back to the UK for Christmas. No, unfortunately not i said. That's a shame he said but at least you can have 5 days off for Hadj, next week.

Unfortunately, too many people in this world are intolerant (and no, not just Muslims). Despite, or because of the teachings of various religions, some believe so strongly, that to even acknowledge that another religion exists is viewed as an attack on their own faith.

Absolutely.

Edit and edit again.

Compose yourself Finn, against ignorance and down right bigotry.

I think I had better do a Thad and not post it, not until later anyhow.

Moss

Very aware, sensitive and considerate of other peoples Good Will to all men.

Merry Christmas

Moss

Merry Christmas

Well said.

Although, of course, any Sikhs, Hindus, Jews, Muslims, Buddhists or Atheists will consider that a rude gesture...

Very aware, sensitive and considerate of other peoples Good Will to all men.

Merry Christmas

Moss

Very aware, sensitive and considerate of other peoples Good Will to all men.

Merry Christmas

Moss

Bah!... Humbug.

Although manners is a good rule to stand by, PC has still gone too far and a lot of us are affected by it.

Moss

In what way are you personally affected by PC?

I'm not speaking for Moss. But as a starter for ten, the fact that many local councils in the UK now have to call Christmas Holidays "Festive or Seasonal Holidays", so as not to upset Muslims is just plain crazy.

Do you have any evidence that this is actually the case - other than articles in the Daily Mail?

Is The Guardian an acceptable source for you?

It's an acceptable source for the story that's posted, although it's a bit left wing for me but I'm still waiting for the evidence that many local councils in the UK now have to call Christmas Holidays "Festive or Seasonal Holidays", so as not to upset Muslims

Very aware, sensitive and considerate of other peoples Good Will to all men.

Merry Christmas

Moss

Bah!... Humbug.

Quite possibly, you missed my point.

Moss

As I have mentioned in another similar thread there is an American movie titled "Four Christmases". In Australia it has been retitled "Four Holidays"!!

I asked my mate a question yesterday.

His name is Mohammed etc etc.

I asked him if there was any chance I could offend anybody in the office if I wish them a Merry Xmas. He told me that the Xtains amongst us would be ok, the more worldly Muslims would be ok but the majority of locals in the office would take great offence so I had better not mention anything.

He went on to say that it is pathetic as they have no problems forcing the Indo Xtians to observe the Muslim holy days but there is no provision whatsoever for the gesture to be returned come christian holy days.

You should see all the goats around ready to be slaughtered on monday, yet there is not one xmas decoration anywhere to be seen, infact it was xmas eve a few years ago that several christian churches were blown up (by one of the bali bombers.)

I asked my mate a question yesterday.

His name is Mohammed etc etc.

I asked him if there was any chance I could offend anybody in the office if I wish them a Merry Xmas. He told me that the Xtains amongst us would be ok, the more worldly Muslims would be ok but the majority of locals in the office would take great offence so I had better not mention anything.

The first thing we need to know is where 'the office' is. Context is all. An office based in Saudi is not the same as an office based in Sunderland.

Although manners is a good rule to stand by, PC has still gone too far and a lot of us are affected by it.

Moss

In what way are you personally affected by PC?

A side step from my post that Brian O'Driscoll would be proud of, however I already posted the answer to yours in an earlier response.

Good Luck

Moss

I have no idea who Brian O'Driscoll but if you're talking about your post re arranged marriages passing laws which affect one racial group and not others is illegal. It's called racial discrimination.

Brian O'Driscoll is one of the premium Rugby players of our time, suitably known of his ability to break tackles and side step opponents.

Although I do not disagree with you, I believe this law is more to do with being Politically Correct, than racial Discrimination, simply because it is a blanket ban and does not target the problem areas, instead of incurring the wrath of one strong lobby group, use a catch-all and negate the thrust of a more influential body.

TB testing regarding visas is specific and not blanket, or am I to be educated otherwise? And if so, why is medical reasons treated different to social norms?

Is TB testing confined to specific races or religions? Or is it based on the likelihood of having a communicable disease?

I asked my mate a question yesterday.

His name is Mohammed etc etc.

I asked him if there was any chance I could offend anybody in the office if I wish them a Merry Xmas. He told me that the Xtains amongst us would be ok, the more worldly Muslims would be ok but the majority of locals in the office would take great offence so I had better not mention anything.

The first thing we need to know is where 'the office' is. Context is all. An office based in Saudi is not the same as an office based in Sunderland.

Indo mate.

But that is ok because next week we all get a few days off so the locals can slaughter their goats and cows

Selamat Hari Raya Haji

But that is ok because next week we all get a few days off so the locals can slaughter their goats and cows

Same here Tuky. I'm off for Hadj now, until the 14th Dec. I'll have much more time to loiter on TV now

If my memory serves me correctly, Charles has said that if he becomes King, he will take the title of "Defender of all Faiths," not just " The' faith.

Good call this, as long as he does it.

In my opinion, defending " The Faiths" includes defending Christian values in a majority Christian country, i.e....... Christmas is #$%*ing Christmas, as well as tolerance for all minority religions. If we are to stop all religious activity because some bigot is offended, then we must be seen to do it across the board

Defending "The Faiths ", ( again for the PC liberals amongst us ) does not mean pandering to a lunatic minority. If it did, the call to prey now heard over many English towns and no doubt offending a loony minority of old " whiteys " should be stopped forthwith. If the minority Christians are offended, stop it, only fair, as anything that offends a minority of Muslims seems to be banned before you can blink......

I myself, am concerned about animals suffering in appalling conditions before being slaughtered in the Hal al way. Therefore if I make a loony complaint to the local authority in Bradford that it should be stopped, stopped it should be !!!!

And if you don't agree, that all opinions should be treated the same way......surely you are a racist ?

On the other hand of course, perhaps we should be tolerant to all. Christmas should still be Christmas, and the call to prayer an essential part of another man's belief's should be equally respected..........Nah...... let's stay as we are, and just ban everything the poor, down trodden, soceity's to blame for my ten children, beaten on a daily basis with my daughters , circumcised and spirited away ( to where ? ) if they object, state sponsored fanatics want......That's better for all, at least it keeps the armies of social workers in employment.

It still cuts me to the core to read about the number ( large ) of Asian girls who simply disappear out of the school system annually in the UK, without any form of investigation whatsoever, in case it offends. This is a disgrace. The poor girls are offered no protection by the state they quite rightly call their own. and why ? Well asking their father and brothers if they could explain the disappearances may offend their sensibilities. Utter tosh.

Bleeding hearted Liberals wake up. You do not reach a harmonious, integrated society by turning your back on abuse and destroying centuries old traditions in the name of political correctness.

Good post suiging

the call to prey now heard over many English towns

Bloody noise pollution, that is.

I know nothing about separation of church and state in Canada or the UK. But governments in the USA are constitutionally secular, prohibited from favoring one sect or faith above the other. And required to protect the freedom of religion. So no government, even school district, can favor one religion, and must protect all, including Satanists and atheists.

Did you hear the one about PeaceBlondie addressing the school board, in the most diverse school district in Texas ? I started out in a dark, formal suit and tie' then I stripped down to a purple sweatshirt that announced JESUS IS A PACIFIST. One of my best performances.

I asked him if there was any chance I could offend anybody in the office if I wish them a Merry Xmas. He told me that the Xtains amongst us would be ok, the more worldly Muslims would be ok but the majority of locals in the office would take great offence so I had better not mention anything.

perhaps, just perhaps, the key (in general) is: (well this is how I would do it anyway)

I wouldnt wish a non Christian merry christmas, but I would wish a christian

so it wouldnt make sense that YOU wish your colleagues merry christmas, cos they are not celebrating it. but the tolerant colleagues could/should wish you

you on the other hand, could wish them an Id Mubarak (if you want to), and in return they might say something nice to you, like to you as well, or likewise (even though you are not Muslim)

would this work?

Miggy, I think I got my head around what you are saying.

I am sure I will after the 15th when I have to attend a cultural awareness seminar, infact it was my summons (all expats attend) to the cultural awareness campaign that caused me to speak with my work mate about the whole christmas thing. I find it interesting.

Indonesia is not a Muslim country as such but rather a predominantly muslim country, there are plenty of christians running around with their heads down just incase they offend the muslims.

Rather like Australia is at the moment I would hazard a guess, the muslims are a minority there and I bet they feel they have to keep their heads down around so many people from a christian heritage.

In my mind that brings up another point, after reading the below article and wondering what the world is coming to I have realised that atleast Australia is trying to do something about integration, whereas here in Indonesia if you wish someone a merry christmas you could be beaten up or killed.

It is fine line in some regards when it comes to being PC or just doing the right thing. I would hate to see christmas wiped off the school list as it was one of the most enjoyable times of the year when I was a school kid, but what to do? celebrate christmas in the schools, christmas pageants and so on and then also slaughter a goat in the school assembly area followed by mass circumcisions in the school sick bay?

What is good for one should be good for another?

Interesting arguement with no conclusion possible I think.

<H1>Carols canned as Pinewood Primary School, Mount Waverley, opts for multicultural event

By John Masanauskas

Herald Sun

December 09, 2008 03:19am

A PRIMARY school has dumped its traditional Christmas carols concert in favour of a musical event for multicultural families. Pinewood Primary School, in Mt Waverley, Victoria, has been accused of acting like the Grinch who stole Christmas, despite Premier John Brumby's warning that schools should not play down the Christmas spirit for the sake of political correctness.

Angry parents and Liberal MPs slammed the decision.

Parents Victoria executive officer Gail McHardy said it appeared the school community was not consulted about the change.

"I'd like to think that tradition is not thrown out the window like this. It's bah, humbug," she said.

Liberal education spokesman Martin Dixon said the majority of Australians, whether from Anglo-Saxon or ethnic backgrounds, celebrated the Christmas tradition. "And it's obviously been part of that school's tradition, and there's no need to change that," he said.

Principal Maurice Baker said it was decided to replace Thursday's carols event with an entertainer. "We thought we'd like to present this sort of thing to our parents, and we thought the only way we could do it was in place of our carols night this year," he said.

"And we thought that was probably not a bad idea either because it gave people from other cultures the chance to celebrate with us." Asked if non-Christian students and parents usually attended the carols night, Mr Baker said: "They can, but they choose not to because it's not their religion."

Last month, Mr Brumby urged schools and kindergartens to let children enjoy Christmas no matter what their religion.

"Christmas holds a significant place in Australian society and it is important schoolchildren . . . gain an understanding of its historical and cultural importance to our country," he said.

Mr Baker said Pinewood still celebrated Christmas in different ways and the carols might be back next year.

"It's not as if the Grinch has come here and stolen Christmas," he said.

At Canterbury Primary School, students and teachers are getting into the yuletide spirit in a big way.

Principal Anne Tonkin said students had taken part in various community Christmas functions, including carol singing and helping out with a Christmas stall.

"It provides an opportunity for students to showcase their talents," she said.

Canterbury parent Vicki Vrazas said her children looked forward to Christmas events. "They love it, it's part of tradition and respecting Christmas values," she said.

</H1>

Why do Muslim Taxidrivers (in the Uk anyway), charge time and half and double fares over the festive season? They should boycott this, not recognise the time of year and just charge single fare, if they really want to be good muslims.

Otherwise, i will continue to have my view that they contradict themselves. Just the same as they drive over the causeway into Bahrain to get sloshed

Please let us keep religion out of this.

It is about telling someone the truth.

How you feel and what you think.

You Christians and Muslim and any other religous peeps, Just find that God inside yourself.

I do not need a religion to know how to be nice to other people.

I know nothing about separation of church and state in Canada or the UK.

In the UK we don't have any. The bishops actually sit in the upper law making chamber as part of the Establishment. Those who think this is a good idea are in favour of antidisestablishmentarianism

It's always struck me as strange that the UK, with bishops as part of the law-making process, is a much less religious country than the USA with its strict separation of church and state.

I know nothing about separation of church and state in Canada or the UK.

In the UK we don't have any. The bishops actually sit in the upper law making chamber as part of the Establishment. Those who think this is a good idea are in favour of antidisestablishmentarianism

It's always struck me as strange that the UK, with bishops as part of the law-making process, is a much less religious country than the USA with its strict separation of church and state.

All because Henry fancied a change now and again

They taught us in school around 1954 that the longest regular word in English was antidisestablishmentarianism. So we invented longer words, like youarejustaverysillylittleboyandyourmotherdressesyoufunny.

Ah yes, the PC'ers strike again. And again, it rears it's ugly head in the British prison system:

A British prison has decided not to include a crucifix in the décor of its new chapel for fear of offending Muslim inmates.

The ‘multi-faith space’ at HMP Lewes is divided in two sections, according to the Daily Mail. One half-features heated footbaths for Muslim worshipers; the other side, dedicated to Christian prayer, features a removable altar and a plain wooden cross – also removable.

Plans to include the traditional Christian crucifix were erased from the chapel’s blueprints on the advice of a Muslim imam, the Daily Mail reported.

“We see this as a vastly improved facility and very much welcome the fact that the prison has an imam.” Amanda Hamblin, chair of the prison’s Independent Monitoring Board told the Mail.”

A source from the prison disagreed, reportedly telling the Mail, “It’s just the normal PC brigade poking its nose in when it isn’t needed.”

Full story: Prison bans chapel crucifix to avoid offending Muslims

But it doesn't stop there, does it ? Remember the "Pin" flap ? Guards can't wear the St George's cross pin, as it may be offensive to Muslims who are still upset over the Crusades 700+ years ago:

The pins showing the English flag -- which has often raised hackles due to its connection with the Crusades of the 11th, 12th and 13th centuries -- could be "misconstrued," Chief Inspector of Prisons Anne Owers said in a section on race in a report on a jail in the northern English city of Wakefield.

A section on race relations in Owers' report said: "We were concerned to see a number of staff wearing a flag of St. George tie-pin.

Chris Doyle, director of the Council for the Advancement of Arab-British Understanding, said Tuesday the red cross was an insensitive reminder of the Crusades.

Doyle added that it was now time for England to find a new flag and a patron saint who is "not associated with our bloody past and one we can all identify with."

And from another part of Blighty:

"Alas, the United Kingdom's descent into dhimmitude is beyond parody. Dudley Metropolitan Borough Council (Tory-controlled) has now announced that, following a complaint by a Muslim employee, all work pictures and knick-knacks of novelty pigs and "pig-related items" will be banned."

Hmmmm, what do you think you'd be called, if you were to complain about the green flag of Islam ? Or prayer calls 5 times a day ? Or the wearing of Hijabs/abayas/burquas/etc ?

Do you think you'd be labelled "intolerant" ? "Racist" ? "Anti-Muslim" ? "Far-Right Skin Head Trouble-Maker" ?

Why are "tolerance", "acceptance", "equality" apparently one-way streets ?