When China had it's recent tragic earthquake, the Central Government asked for and received millions in aid. At the same time they sit on Billions in reserves said to be the largest in the world.

Manchester City are about to spend hundreds of millions of pounds on a handful of talented (? )footballers; their Arab owners no doubt at the forefront of the clamour for the West to send aid to the poor Palestinians

I will not even go to the disgraceful begging of Nigeria to aid it's poor people ( yes they are in a state, but do you have any idea of the ruling elites fortune from natural resources ?)

Is it just me, or is there a pattern here which I find disturbing ? When is it time for the PC brigade to join in a call for the worlds wealthy to look to their own pockets. I have yet to see the great liberal unwashed demonstrating outside the above mentioned countries embassies demanding that they do someing to eleviate the suffering of their own............................why not ?

I have the biggest distrust for China

have been asking friends this question for year - and no one can give satisfactory answer.

how does a country sit on the biggest foreign (and I think also gold?) reserve while letting a large part of its population starve - this happens even when there are no disasters or natural calamities.

while it continues to buy up natural resources - biggest buyer of australia's coal, biggest investor in the oil and gas in many african countries

and also taking control of strategic naval points in the asia pacific. - contesting area with philippines and further ashore if I remember correctly. at the same time building up a lot of miltary resources - equipment for certain. without knowing the facts or having seen anything - I dont doubt the size of their army either, or how much is invested into training them.

Manchester City are about to spend hundreds of millions of pounds on a handful of talented (? )footballers; their Arab owners no doubt at the forefront of the clamour for the West to send aid to the poor Palestinians

Why pick on City. Man United, Chelsea, Arsenal etc. etc. have been spending large bucks on players for years, we've never had any before. Now we have some, your'e picking on us. Bugger off you bully

Sorry.....................

Seriously though, suiging has a point.

I've mentioned it in threads long ago, and have never seen a decent answer to the question.

After the tsunami, who were the first and biggest distributors of aid and assistance ? Who donated little, if any at all, to their "brothers and sisters" ?

Earthquake in Pakistan, same questions. Who did, who didn't ? (Oddly enough, pretty much the same answers again).

Cyclone in Burma ? Same same. (Weirder and weirder, ain't it ?)

Gaza. Who's offering money and aid ? Who isn't ? (Strange, I'd almost swear it the same answers again !)

Funny how the countries that tend to be first and foremost with money, aid and assistance, are also the same countries many of those needy people hate. Imagine where they'd be without all that help from the people they hate eh ? Imagine if they had to rely on their fraternal brothers and sisters.

The old saying goes, "Don't Bite The Hand That Feeds You". Some of these people shouldn't be seeing the outstretched, open hand offering help and hope, but the taut, clenched, back of the hand giving back to them in kind. Who would they cry to then ?

Who would deliver them shelters, clothing, blankets, food, medicine, doctors, and clean water, if their "hated" enemies stopped doing it ? Based on what I've seen in the past, the answer is........no one.

Seriously though, suiging has a point.

I've mentioned it in threads long ago, and have never seen a decent answer to the question.

After the tsunami, who were the first and biggest distributors of aid and assistance ? Who donated little, if any at all, to their "brothers and sisters" ?

Earthquake in Pakistan, same questions. Who did, who didn't ? (Oddly enough, pretty much the same answers again).

Cyclone in Burma ? Same same. (Weirder and weirder, ain't it ?)

Gaza. Who's offering money and aid ? Who isn't ? (Strange, I'd almost swear it the same answers again !)

Funny how the countries that tend to be first and foremost with money, aid and assistance, are also the same countries many of those needy people hate. Imagine where they'd be without all that help from the people they hate eh ? Imagine if they had to rely on their fraternal brothers and sisters.

The old saying goes, "Don't Bite The Hand That Feeds You". Some of these people shouldn't be seeing the outstretched, open hand offering help and hope, but the taut, clenched, back of the hand giving back to them in kind. Who would they cry to then ?

Who would deliver them shelters, clothing, blankets, food, medicine, doctors, and clean water, if their "hated" enemies stopped doing it ? Based on what I've seen in the past, the answer is........no one.

It is so true.

Those rotten sheiks only will be willing to spend fortunes; when it's their pleasure that is being involved, or to get their fat ugly piggy-faces on the western media publications for showing off-buggering reasons, same as when they bail out few banks with money they had stolen from their people and countries.

I think there is an important point being made, however, I think we should continue to help others.

I'm not sure where PC comes into this topic other than through OP's imagination; otherwise it's great that any country gives aid to another in times of trouble. However, it is also important if those countries distributing aid are not causing more damage through their behaviour than the aid is actually worth.

I'm not sure where PC comes into this topic other than through OP's imagination; otherwise it's great that any country gives aid to another in times of trouble. However, it is also important if those countries distributing aid are not causing more damage through their behaviour than the aid is actually worth.

Ah, my imagination......................

Not suggesting not great for countries to give, the PC element ( in my imagination ) is that the great liberal intelligentsia are always somewhat quiet when the stinking rich of some of the worlds most down trodden soceities hand out the begging bowl for their own good.

As a wannabe member of the great liberal intelligentsia I'd like to say that it's things like giving aid to other countries that make us different from countries like China. We change that and it's amazing how everything else changes as well.

I think the point being made is that we, the west - or many of us at least, are getting heartily p1ssed off with being portrayed as the pariahs of the world often by our own people whilst having these same people scrounging money from us to support various dodgy regimes. What if we all turned around and said "stuff the third world let them starve, die of exposure, go down with cholera etc" who would come to their aid?

After the earthquake China, for all it's wealth and resources, struggled to cope with the aftermath and the world came to it's aid.

After hurricane Katrina America, for all it's wealth and resources, struggled to cope with the aftermath and the world came to it's aid (although not as enthusiastically nor as generously).

But it was the same world in both cases. Whether it is a disaster in the USA, China, Pakistan or Iran the people of the west dig deep to help. It's a shame that the teachings of Allah don't stretch to charitable acts irrespective of the faith of the victims. It's a shame that the teachings of Allah have been so perverted by self proclaimed devout followers that they won't even help fellow followers of the faith.

I think the point being made is that we, the west - or many of us at least, are getting heartily p1ssed off with being portrayed as the pariahs of the world often by our own people whilst having these same people scrounging money from us to support various dodgy regimes. What if we all turned around and said "stuff the third world let them starve, die of exposure, go down with cholera etc" who would come to their aid?

After the earthquake China, for all it's wealth and resources, struggled to cope with the aftermath and the world came to it's aid.

After hurricane Katrina America, for all it's wealth and resources, struggled to cope with the aftermath and the world came to it's aid (although not as enthusiastically nor as generously).

But it was the same world in both cases. Whether it is a disaster in the USA, China, Pakistan or Iran the people of the west dig deep to help. It's a shame that the teachings of Allah don't stretch to charitable acts irrespective of the faith of the victims. It's a shame that the teachings of Allah have been so perverted by self proclaimed devout followers that they won't even help fellow followers of the faith.

Muslims Donation to Hurricane Katrina...

The total amount of Muslim's donations based on the

list mentioned

below is:

One billion, & 55 millions and 600 thousands

dollar! ($1,055,0600,000)

* Kuwait: $500 millions ($400 millions in oil, $100

million cash)

* Saudi Arabia $255 millions

* Qatar $100 millions

* Libya $100 millions

* Egypt $30 millions plus other aid

* Algeria $30 millions

* Tunisia $10 millions

* US - Muslim Hurricane Relief Task Force (MHRTF)

pledge $10 millions

* Jordan $5 millions plus other aid

* Syria $5 millions

* Morocco $5 millions

* Bahrain $5 millions

* Lebanon $2 millions

* Pakistan $1 million

* Bangladesh $1 million

* Azerbaijan: $500,000

* Afghanistan $100,000

Pakistan Earthquake

Sorry;I forgot to send the link:

It is the press release from U.S. Mission to the United Nations In Geneva website :

USmission/geneva

arent we talking nationality here, not religion, PhilHarries?

Nigeria 2006:

Front page Nigerian newspaper during the Bono concerts had two columns side by side:

Debt written off for Nigeria on these "humanitarian" grounds: 12mil USD.

Next column: Nigeria's estimated excess revenue from the increased crude price (at that time), above country budgeted value: 9,75Billion USD.

No, I read the page but could not keep the newspaper.

This one is anecdotal: (Kenia based New York Times journalist) Only an estimated 14% from total donations to some poor African countries, actually reach the intended people.

Some of it I saw happen in Malawi while working there back in the late 80's early 90's in Hastings Banda's time...

The intent is fine, it is the execution which is corrupt.

All the liberal intelligentsia I knew washed daily, and accused the reactionary uneducated conservatives of being unwashed.

Some of the best "liberals" I have known were either Quakers or atheists, protesting against the incredibly expensive wars. Are the great washed conservative scholars now breaking down the banks and putting bankers' heads on pikes? I read today that an economist is calling for torches and pitchforks.

I had no idea so many foreign nations had donated so many millions to Hurricane Katrina victims whilst the Republican Bush administratin fumbled the ball.

I first heard of Nicaragua's right-wing government stealing the aid money from Hurricane Mitch relief funds by the same liberals who took down the Somoza regime after he stole millions from the Managua earthquake relief funds.

What was the point of the OP again? Let's see, the central govt. of China is still Communist and evil and mercenary. Many Arab nations are sending aid to Palestine, as they often did.

I had no idea so many foreign nations had donated so many millions to Hurricane Katrina victims whilst the Republican Bush administratin fumbled the ball.

On that point I understand that the action of The Coast Guard stand out as one group that grasped that ball and achieved more than any other in term of saving lives and doing good, compared with doing bad or doing nothing. (That said I have to agree with the email doing the rounds at the moment pointing out the numbers of people that can gather to celibrate one event in the freezing cold for fun, where as with four days warning and their lives depending on it they are unable to move out of a danger zone.)

On the wider international issue: I'm troubled that countries choose to direct spending on huge projects such as a space program like India's, when there are clearly other causes that require funds. But yet they still request and receive international aid funding.

I have the biggest distrust for China

have been asking friends this question for year - and no one can give satisfactory answer.

how does a country sit on the biggest foreign (and I think also gold?) reserve while letting a large part of its population starve - this happens even when there are no disasters or natural calamities.

while it continues to buy up natural resources - biggest buyer of australia's coal, biggest investor in the oil and gas in many african countries

and also taking control of strategic naval points in the asia pacific. - contesting area with philippines and further ashore if I remember correctly. at the same time building up a lot of miltary resources - equipment for certain. without knowing the facts or having seen anything - I dont doubt the size of their army either, or how much is invested into training them.

It's their turn now....

I have the biggest distrust for China

have been asking friends this question for year - and no one can give satisfactory answer.

how does a country sit on the biggest foreign (and I think also gold?) reserve while letting a large part of its population starve - this happens even when there are no disasters or natural calamities.

while it continues to buy up natural resources - biggest buyer of australia's coal, biggest investor in the oil and gas in many african countries

and also taking control of strategic naval points in the asia pacific. - contesting area with philippines and further ashore if I remember correctly. at the same time building up a lot of miltary resources - equipment for certain. without knowing the facts or having seen anything - I dont doubt the size of their army either, or how much is invested into training them.

Wow.....A large part of the Chinese population are starving? Didn't know that. Which Provinces?

China continues to buy up large portions of natural resources, foreign agricultural land, iron ore, oil, copper, gas resources, etc, etc. China pays for all these things in US Dollars. Dollars purchased from the US as debt. (Treasuries, bonds, long term, mostly short term as of late) China ( like any good store-keeper), is concerned that it's best customer doesn't go broke. So will continue to buy US debt.....up to what point?

Your post really points to china as a villain.

Look at history.......5000 years of it. How many Chinese colonies are there around the world? None. China has been invaded how many times? "And has ingested all of them. You invade China at your peril. You will become Chinese. China has never had a need for colonialism. There's a natural gravitational pull towards 1.3 billion people.

When China buys foreign investments, it's just divesting itself of US debt. The faster the better in my view....You think America intends to repay $2 trillion, at fair value, any time soon?

The US, bankrupting itself, ringing the world, with overseas wars, weapons systems, and military bases......and you worry about China?

China has the biggest gold reserves??....Please spare me.

What China has got is potential. China now, is like the US in the 1840/50/s, on steroids. Most of it's population concentrated on the East coast and the interior largely unpopulated and unexplored. The potential is HUGE. Managing the potential.....and 1.3 billion eager (for wealth) people will no doubt bring conflict on magnitudes we can only imagine.

The US can learn a valuable lesson from China over the coming decades. Sort domestic problems first. China has always come first for China, the world will come to them.

Regards.

I had no idea so many foreign nations had donated so many millions to Hurricane Katrina victims whilst the Republican Bush administratin fumbled the ball.

On that point I understand that the action of The Coast Guard stand out as one group that grasped that ball and achieved more than any other in term of saving lives and doing good, compared with doing bad or doing nothing. (That said I have to agree with the email doing the rounds at the moment pointing out the numbers of people that can gather to celibrate one event in the freezing cold for fun, where as with four days warning and their lives depending on it they are unable to move out of a danger zone.)

...........

It was in the days following Katrina that Bush was asked by a representative of an anti-abortion group what he thought of Rowe vs Wade, he replied, "I don't care how they get outa New Orleans, they just gotta get out."

But seriously though, we should keep in mind that much of our information comes from mainstream Western media... you don't always hear of the efforts of non-Western countries.

Just as on Al Jazeera you won't hear about much of Western benevolence.

If I recall correctly, there was a flood in India or Bangladesh at the same time as Katrina....as devastating in human cost if not in financial. How many charity organisations rallied for those victims in the shadow of Katrina?

Be honest now, don't google it....how many of you remember Bopal? I think the death toll stands at 20 000 or more by now, and rising. America won't even allow the managers responsible for the negligence stand trial, and does shamefully little in direct aid to the victims and their families. It's not politically profitable....Of course the residents of Bopal don't have the resources to sue the USA.

How many of you have heard about the Arabs that live near Dimona? Their radiation poisoning?

etc etc

My point is that we often don't hear about all disasters and tragedies, as we often don't hear about how those events were reacted to, nor by whom.

There will alwasy be suffering in the world. So much that an individual or an singlar group would do best to focus on one part of the suffering and work just on that. The world's issue are just too big and each issue you can think have has so many variables and what aid that is given and even what is not given will have profuond effects, even negative ones. Small steps with care and well thought out plans to help the most possible as well as the understanding that some issues will work themselves out if left alone.

I had no idea so many foreign nations had donated so many millions to Hurricane Katrina victims whilst the Republican Bush administratin fumbled the ball.

PB seems to be a Democratic party liberal who conveniently overlooks the part the Mayor of New Orleans and the Governor of Louisiana played in this little drama.

Where is the outrage over their actions?

I'd say no right now and try and get our country's in order first and foremost, THEN think about helping others.

The money we give away that goes to these third-world crooks if criminal. Remember Live-Aid and all the other fund-raising activities in the 80s. They didn't change the rotten and corrupt system out in the third-world, most of the cash disappeared into foreign bank accounts. Same then, same now.

The 1st world nations like the UK are on the tipping point. We owe billions of pounds, have a massive trade deficit and still throw money around like water.

Gordon Brown says not to be isolationist, he would say that as for him being a country that looks after it's own is turning traitor against his NWO masters and the EU!

i say no everytime the girls yell handsome man

I had no idea so many foreign nations had donated so many millions to Hurricane Katrina victims whilst the Republican Bush administratin fumbled the ball.

PB seems to be a Democratic party liberal who conveniently overlooks the part the Mayor of New Orleans and the Governor of Louisiana played in this little drama.

Where is the outrage over their actions?

Anabaptists aren't Democratic party liberals.

[snip]

Your post really points to china as a villain.

[snip]

China has never had a need for colonialism. There's a natural gravitational pull towards 1.3 billion people.

[snip]

hadnt been back on this thread, so only seeing replies to my post now

when I talk about distrust - it means I am skeptic about China's actions. A few of the things I mentioned raises question marks for me. Im not yet pinpointing them as the villain - but it is more I wonder at their intentions and wish there is an explanation.

and remember that in today's world colonialism is no longer about territorial/physical ownership. it is more about negotiation/coercing power, and of course control of resources. buying up energy sources from elsewhere in the world, while stockpiling their own resource could simply be business strategy to minimise cost (buy from Africa now before others get in and it becomes more expensive), but it could also be a strategy to retain their energy sources while everywhere else has been depleted?

(or maybe Im paranoid)

but that in itself might not have raised my alarm bell so much as that coupled with China's relentless effort to control strategic naval ports in the region.

[snip]

Your post really points to china as a villain.

[snip]

China has never had a need for colonialism. There's a natural gravitational pull towards 1.3 billion people.

[snip]

hadnt been back on this thread, so only seeing replies to my post now

when I talk about distrust - it means I am skeptic about China's actions. A few of the things I mentioned raises question marks for me. Im not yet pinpointing them as the villain - but it is more I wonder at their intentions and wish there is an explanation.

and remember that in today's world colonialism is no longer about territorial/physical ownership. it is more about negotiation/coercing power, and of course control of resources. buying up energy sources from elsewhere in the world, while stockpiling their own resource could simply be business strategy to minimise cost (buy from Africa now before others get in and it becomes more expensive), but it could also be a strategy to retain their energy sources while everywhere else has been depleted?

(or maybe Im paranoid)

but that in itself might not have raised my alarm bell so much as that coupled with China's relentless effort to control strategic naval ports in the region.

Many of the comments about China are based upon fear..fear for the unknown; It's not just you MiG, it's a daily returning issue amongst millions.

People are comparing countries like the US or Europe with China. The problem is that China unlocked itself since a mere 20 to 30 years but we, westerners expect China to be the same as we are now and WHERE we are now, which took us a few centuries to be(come) where we are now.

Compare the numbers of cars per 1,000 people in America and in China ***

Compare the income per household in London and Shanghai.

I could go on for ages.

Mane people don't understand that every dollar China exports, 0,90 cents is used to IMPORT goods and commodities but at the same time exports account for less than 20% of China's GDP!

We seem to forget that such a massive population of more than 1,3 Billion people create GDP themselves also; Count the whole of the US + greater Europe of 750 million people together and you don't even reach the 1,3 billion.

If the west wouldn't BUY so much from China, the position China is in now would be completely different.

30 years ago I watched all those thousands of Americans, Europeans and Australians (including myself) sitting in the lobbies in Hong Kong hotels, working until after midnight...guess what we were doing...till the alarm clock went off again at 07.00AM next morning and the circus started all over again.

China was still locked at that time so we went to HK, where the Cantonese Chinese knew their ways into "locked" China and Shenzhen (across the border of HK) to produce the goods all those westerners wanted to buy...and WHY...???....because consumers like you and me want nice, beautiful dresses (not me ) for Christmas and new Nikes or watches, belts, bags and in the very near future, electric cars, made in China.

Yes, China; US investor Warren Buffett is co-owner/shareholder of the largest battery producer in China who are making electric cars now.

It's a roller coaster we can't stop anymore, but to blame China for this isn't fair. Yes, it will take a long time before they reach the same democratic status most of our own countries have now. But...how long did it takes us ? How many wars were fought before we had (relatively) peace?

And, if we would NOT buy from China WHO would produce those products for us and at what prices ? Do you have an alternative?

Do you want to pay $ 900 for that dress or do you prefer $ 99

*** the US now has about 478 cars per 1,000 people, while China has about 15 cars per 1,000.

LaoPo

by the way, someone asked where Im getting the idea that China's population is poor

I could reverse the question and ask where you get the idea that the majority of them are rich????

and yes, there are people in various rural parts who are starving.

lots of articles you can find on that. but here is one that might give some idea?

China's rural poverty line far below international standard

When Should You Say No ?

Indeed...WHEN?....what a bitter irony:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/in_pictures/8459952.stm

WHEN is it time to help?

LaoPo