Thai Banks To Start Charging For Atm Withdrawals ...

[jfchandler]

JGM, the point with Ayudhya is not whether their ATM is warning about a fee, but rather, are they actually charging one after the warning. Others have reported here getting the ATM fee warning on the screen, but not being charged the fee. However, that was in past weeks.

We really need more Ayudhya users to chime in here and indicate whether they're getting fee'd or not.

[jfchandler]

A GOOD NEWS update for the E*Trade checking debit card holders out there.

Just arrived back in BKK from travel abroad yesterday, and needed to do a quick ATM run yesterday. So I decided to be the Thai bank ATM fee "guinea pig" for E*Trade.

Went to a local BKK Bank ATM last night (9:15 pm Saturday) and made a withdrawal using my E*Trade Visa debit card knowing I'd be hit with the 150 baht fee, as the BKK Bank ATM screen warned me prior to completing the withdrawal.

This morning, I checked my E*Trade checking account online and found the following:

--A single debit for my withdrawal (the ATM fee was combined with my withdrawal amount)

--A single credit of $4.41 posted as an ATM fee refund

--A net exchange rate on my withdrawal (total WD debit minus the fee refund) of 34.05.

So, the good news is, E*Trade via their Visa checking debit cards is (at least for now) refunding the 150 baht Thai bank ATM charges.

That was my first and only try at doing this. So it was nice to see they did the fee refund automatically.

But I'm not planning to change my current Thai ATM habits (fee free via UOB, GSB and AEON).

It's nice to know I can use E*Trade and any Thai bank in a pinch without worrying re an ATM fee. But I don't want to start piling up tons of Thai bank WDs with fee refunds, and prompt E*Trade to start looking to too hard at this. I would hope not to spoil a good thing...

As has been mentioned previously here in this thread, a strict reading of E*Trade's ATM fee refunds policy does not suggest that they'll do foreign bank fee refunds. But as long as they're doing it, policy or not, I'm not complaining.

[BuckBee]

JGM, the point with Ayudhya is not whether their ATM is warning about a fee, but rather, are they actually charging one after the warning. Others have reported here getting the ATM fee warning on the screen, but not being charged the fee. However, that was in past weeks.

We really need more Ayudhya users to chime in here and indicate whether they're getting fee'd or not.

I can confirm Ayudhya are indeed charging the fee. Any exceptions will be to ATM's still awaiting upgrading.

I assume this only leaves AEON & GSB as the fee free ATM options.

[jfchandler]

and UOB (United Overseas Bank) for both Visa and MC's (fee-free)...

unless in an unlikely scenario they changed in the past week when I was out-of-town, and no one here has mentioned it...

[maechanman]

and UOB (United Overseas Bank) for both Visa and MC's (fee-free)...

unless in an unlikely scenario they changed in the past week when I was out-of-town, and no one here has mentioned it...

Used UOB (United Overseas Bank) here in Pattaya yesterday-No Fee-

[barryofthailand]

First of all, the 150 Baht charge will not show up at your home country bank as a separate charge. The Nationwide refunds are for the 1% conversion fee that Visa, and or Mastercard charges. The only way you can tell if the ATM you are using is fee free is by comparing the exchange rate if you know how to do that. The only Bank I know of in Thailand that is still fee free for foreign cards is GSB. Exchange rate for U.S. Dollar as of yesterday was 34.42

Barry

[jfchandler]

The only Bank I know of in Thailand that is still fee free for foreign cards is GSB. Exchange rate for U.S. Dollar as of yesterday was 34.42

Barry

Barry, you're not reading the thread too closely... Add AEON and UOB (both accept VISA and MC) to the list of fee-free ATMs. GSB, unfortunately, only accepts VISA cards...

Also, not sure where you're getting a 34.42 rate on the U.S. $ from.

Today, the Bank of Thailand web site is showing a Friday InterBank Exchange Rate for the $ of 34.13, and the X-Rates web site which tracks a similar rate is showing 34.15. Likewise for Friday, the Bank of Thailand web site is showing an average buying TT rate of 34.0.

Using a good U.S. ATM card, you should expect to get close to the IER rate, and better than the buying TT rate. Last night, I got 34.05 using a no-fee, good rate ATM card (E*Trade VISA).

Thus, a 34.42 rate for Thai ATM withdrawals seems unlikely....

Edited June 21, 2009 by jfchandler

[wimpy]

I completed the transaction and was charged the fee at BAY in Chiang Mai.

[jfchandler]

Exchange rate for U.S. Dollar as of yesterday was 34.42

Barry

Barry, the rate you're quoting appears to be very close to BKK Bank's SELLING dollars rate (34.43 as last quoted on Friday). That's the bank's rate if you want to use baht to buy (end up with) U.S. dollars. I.e., they are selling you U.S. $ and you're paying in baht. And, of course, you need MORE baht (a higher rate) because they're taking their profit.

But it's the BUYING TT rate that we deal with as farang. The bank is buying our U.S. $ and giving us the corresponding baht amount in exchange. Their last quoted buying TT rate on Friday was 34.0.

[khunjake]

No fee from UOB however I have been noticing that their ATM rates are about 10-20 satang lower then using SCB or Kasikorn. Doesn't quite amount to 150THB on say a 17000THB withdrawal but nonetheless, they do hit you with something (about $2 difference) for offering their conveinence.

and UOB (United Overseas Bank) for both Visa and MC's (fee-free)...

unless in an unlikely scenario they changed in the past week when I was out-of-town, and no one here has mentioned it...

Used UOB (United Overseas Bank) here in Pattaya yesterday-No Fee-

[maechanman]

No fee from UOB however I have been noticing that their ATM rates are about 10-20 satang lower then using SCB or Kasikorn. Doesn't quite amount to 150THB on say a 17000THB withdrawal but nonetheless, they do hit you with something (about $2 difference) for offering their conveinence.

and UOB (United Overseas Bank) for both Visa and MC's (fee-free)...

unless in an unlikely scenario they changed in the past week when I was out-of-town, and no one here has mentioned it...

Used UOB (United Overseas Bank) here in Pattaya yesterday-No Fee-

Just for your info my withdrawl from UOB yesterday I was charged £89.52 for 5000 Baht using a Nationwide cash card.

This works out at a rate of 55.85 Baht to the British Pound.Not sure how favourable this compares with other Thai Banks.

[JimGant]

As has been mentioned previously here in this thread, a strict reading of E*Trade's ATM fee refunds policy does not suggest that they'll do foreign bank fee refunds. But as long as they're doing it, policy or not, I'm not complaining.

JC, good to see E*Trade is reimbursing fees charged in baht. A recent conversation with USAA Federal Savings Bank advised me that they no longer reimburse ATM fees charged outside the US. They mumbled something about the conversion from xx to dollars being difficult. Obviously BS, based on your E*Trade example.

Another interesting tidbit in my conversation with USAA: I asked whether or not ATM forex rates were real-time? They said no (I was speaking to a supervisor), but unlike delayed credit card exchange rates, they are definitely same-day rates. When I asked what was the current exchange rate being used by Cirrus, they gave me a rate that coincided exactly (to the the fourth decimal point) with the X-Rate.com rate. That was a surprise.

Well, X-Rate does say they pick between the major wholesale rate makers. Maybe they -- and Cirrus -- were on the same frequency that day. Anyway, X-Rate.com has additional credence with me when now looking for the 'real' IER.

[johng]

I can confirm Ayudhya are indeed charging the fee

I completed the transaction and was charged the fee at BAY in Chiang Mai.

BuckBee and wimpy,

What type of card are you using ? Visa - Cirrus ? is it a USD, Euro,UKP or other currency.

[wimpy]

I can confirm Ayudhya are indeed charging the fee

I completed the transaction and was charged the fee at BAY in Chiang Mai.

BuckBee and wimpy,

What type of card are you using ? Visa - Cirrus ? is it a USD, Euro,UKP or other currency.

I am using a US based Visa debit card. It has the Star and Plus logos on it.

[johng]

I am using a US based Visa debit card. It has the Star and Plus logos on it

Ok thanks for that..it seems to confirm my suspicion ( my theory )

that they are charging for USD transactions but not for UKP

and of course they are doing Dynamic Currency Conversion on USD and Euro but not UKP ( yet )

[jgm005]

I stand corrected. Thanks

JGM, the point with Ayudhya is not whether their ATM is warning about a fee, but rather, are they actually charging one after the warning. Others have reported here getting the ATM fee warning on the screen, but not being charged the fee. However, that was in past weeks.

We really need more Ayudhya users to chime in here and indicate whether they're getting fee'd or not.

[jfchandler]

Ok thanks for that..it seems to confirm my suspicion ( my theory )

that they [Ayudhya] are charging for USD transactions but not for UKP

That's an interesting theory. I wonder if other people's experiences with Ayudhya support that or not???

Up to this point, there has been no coherent explanation of what's going on with Ayudhya... Some people report getting charged. Others report fee-free... It's been hard to discern any clear pattern because, often, posters re Ayudhya haven't been including all the pertinent details.

Your theory wouldn't really make much business sense, unless Ayudhya is using the same split for ATM fees that they're doing for DCC: In other words, MasterCards in Euros and U.S. $ get DCC'd. But Visa cards get 150 baht fees instead????

I have no idea, since amid all the conflicting reports, I've pretty much written off using their Ayudhya. But I'd like to hear if others' experiences fit into the model above, or not???

and of course they are doing Dynamic Currency Conversion on USD and Euro but not UKP ( yet )

JohnG, to be more precise, Ayudhya supposedly is doing DCC just on MasterCard-based transactions for cards based in U.S. $ or Euros (but not in pounds). I've seen nor heard no indication they're doing DCC on Visa card transactions.

[johng]

jfchandler,

I agree its a pretty crazy theory ( but remember TIT )

and yes we do need much more feedback with relevent details from Ayudhya ATM users to see a pattern emerge.

I will continue to use Ayudhya and report here as their ATM's are very convenient for me.

[BuckBee]

I can confirm Ayudhya are indeed charging the fee

I completed the transaction and was charged the fee at BAY in Chiang Mai.

BuckBee and wimpy,

What type of card are you using ? Visa - Cirrus ? is it a USD, Euro,UKP or other currency.

Nationwide Visa UKP.

Ayudhya are charging & the 150฿ is clearly evident on my online statement. Fee is added to total amount taken & not calculated into exchange rate as someone mentioned above (Cirrus/MC could differ for some due to DCC), have tested a few ATMs & all have added the fee in this way & can be easily seen on statements.

In my Opinion GSB & AEON are the best options.

Edited June 21, 2009 by BuckBee

[johng]

OK BuckBee,

that blows my theory clean out of the water then..

[barryofthailand]

The rate I quoted was the actual rate I got. I don't care what whatever website says the going rate is. To figure the rate, take the baht withdrawn, and divide by the rate I quoted, and you get the exact dollar amount I withdrew. Another way is to take the dollar amount withdrawn, and multiply by the rate I quoted. Very simple.

Barry

[thaimate]

For some reason the G.S.B atms have stopped giving mr money on my nationwide visa card ,AON AND UOB NO PROBLEMSanyone else had this .

[BIGTOE3]

Halifax might be able to do a Swift transfer quickly BUT if you transfer from Halifax Reward to Their Halifax cardcash account it still takes 3 days

BT

PS re Nationwide NON debit Visa card - finally after more e'mails and wrong infi from their HO advise to open anpther Flexi Visa on line - then take it in to branch with a letter requesting it be down graded.

Will keep you posted.

BT

Strange about Halifax. Nationwide online is real-time between accounts, as is HSBC.

Nationwide cash card - persevere. The local branch downgraded one of mine for me. You just need to get to the right person because the UK is becoming like Thailand - the staff will give the answer to the "best of their knowledge", you need a mature (or willing) head that has probably done this conversion before. My new card was received within 4 days. CARE - I did not get a new PIN advice and used the old PIN until the card got retained, I had to ask for the PIN to be re-advised. You may want to check this with the branch.

Update re Nationwide card cash non visa.

After taking the advice of a "Senior Complaints Consultant" tried to open another Flexi account on line, with the intention of then having it downgraded as per your post and the N/W HO. Consultants recommendations.

Have received a refusal letter today - NO REASON WHY- NO TEL No TO CONTACT-NO REFERENCE GIVEN.

Have sent a strong worded e'mail to their complaints department again and to their New Business team.

No issue with credit rating at all, I have substancial investments with them - JUST NO COMMON SENSE.

Will keep you posted

BT

[jubby]

I can confirm Ayudhya are indeed charging the fee

I completed the transaction and was charged the fee at BAY in Chiang Mai.

BuckBee and wimpy,

What type of card are you using ? Visa - Cirrus ? is it a USD, Euro,UKP or other currency.

Nationwide Visa UKP.

Ayudhya are charging & the 150฿ is clearly evident on my online statement. Fee is added to total amount taken & not calculated into exchange rate as someone mentioned above (Cirrus/MC could differ for some due to DCC), have tested a few ATMs & all have added the fee in this way & can be easily seen on statements.

In my Opinion GSB & AEON are the best options.

Very interesting; Ayudhya are NOT charging me, no mention of a charge either at the ATM. I'm using Nationwide VISA UKP also.

Clearly no evidence on my statement. Maybe its some sort of lottery , Its definately a <deleted> sort of moment.

08 Jun 2009 Cash Bay/Chiangrai Branch CHIANGRAI. 15,000.00THB at 54.128. Withdrawal date 07 June 2009. £277.12

12 Jun 2009 Cash Bay/Big C Chiangrai CHIANGRAI. 15,000.00THB at 55.498. £270.28

[BuckBee]

Very interesting; Ayudhya are NOT charging me, no mention of a charge either at the ATM. I'm using Nationwide VISA UKP also.

Clearly no evidence on my statement. Maybe its some sort of lottery , Its definately a <deleted> sort of moment.

08 Jun 2009 Cash Bay/Chiangrai Branch CHIANGRAI. 15,000.00THB at 54.128. Withdrawal date 07 June 2009. £277.12

12 Jun 2009 Cash Bay/Big C Chiangrai CHIANGRAI. 15,000.00THB at 55.498. £270.28

I have spoken to Ayudhya bank manager, they are clearly charging 150฿ & all Ayudhya ATM's will show a clear message indicating the fee.

If you are currently using an Ayudhya ATM fee free be happy, but don't expect it to last forever as they are currently upgrading them.

*Above info is based on Visa cards, Cirrus/Mastercards may differ*

Next month I will be testing my second Nationwide Flex account with Cirrus cash card in Ayudhya ATM & AEON ATM.

Should go through AOEN without an issue & Ayudhya should be good as UKP is exempt from the DCC scam.

[JimGant]

Thus, a 34.42 rate for Thai ATM withdrawals seems unlikely.

Actually, completely impossible. Even with the best cards -- E*Trade, Schwab, and a few others -- he couldn't have done better than 34.15. And, there are no reward cards for ATM/Debit cards used in the pin mode.

The rate I quoted was the actual rate I got. I don't care what whatever website says the going rate is. To figure the rate, take the baht withdrawn, and divide by the rate I quoted, and you get the exact dollar amount I withdrew. Another way is to take the dollar amount withdrawn, and multiply by the rate I quoted. Very simple.

Barry

First of all, you're never given "the rate I was quoted." Yes, you can read the rates advertised by the bank whose ATM you're using. But unless it's DCC where talking about, which we're not, those rates have absolutely nothing in common with the actual rate you'll get, based on Cirrus or Visa network, your issuing bank, and the handshakes between the two. And even if you ask your issuing bank what the rate is, they won't be able to tell you with any real confidence.

The only way you'll know the rate you actually got (you'll never know ahead of time) is by dividing the baht you received at the ATM machine by the dollars they cost. Then, as this thread has hammered home persistently, if the rate you're getting approximates the TT rate, you're doing good -- but you are paying some slight fees. If it's at or very near the IER, your fees, if any, are being reimbursed -- and you're doing the best that you can.

Go back and divide the baht by the dollars they cost, Barry. You couldn't have gotten a 34.42 exchange rate any day this month, so you must have made a boo boo.

[barryofthailand]

If you don't believe me, You divide it out and see what I got. I took out $45.00 U.S, which was 1500 Thai Baht. My credit Union in the States rebates any and all conversion charges, so their are no fees on the stateside end.

Barry

[jfchandler]

Barry, I'm not great at math, but my calculator never lies...

$45 yielding 1500 baht means you got an exchange rate of 33.33, not 34.42 as you mentioned above...

And 33.33 wasn't a great rate for the day in question.

You get to the 33.33 amount by dividing the baht you got (1500) by the amount you were charged ($45).

[johng]

For some reason the G.S.B atms have stopped giving mr money on my nationwide visa card ,AON AND UOB NO PROBLEMSanyone else had this .

thaimate join the club

G.S.B has never given me money when I've tried using Nationwide Visa debit.

[barryofthailand]

Barry, I'm not great at math, but my calculator never lies...

$45 yielding 1500 baht means you got an exchange rate of 33.33, not 34.42 as you mentioned above...

And 33.33 wasn't a great rate for the day in question.

You get to the 33.33 amount by dividing the baht you got (1500) by the amount you were charged ($45).

You might be correct, but the way I did it was multiply 34.42 by $45.00.

Barry