Norwegian Woman And American Woman Die Of Unknown Causes on Koh Phi Phi

[Jimjim]

And this 6th death on Phuket blows the pesticide in the guest house water bottles theory out.

No it doesn't, as there is no proof at all that they are even connected.

[CFIT]

And this 6th death on Phuket blows the pesticide in the guest house water bottles theory out.

No it doesn't, as there is no proof at all that they are even connected.

That's a good point. But if there's one more .....

I can't believe Bangkok Post has totally ignored this story.

A synopsis of the deaths was posted on the forum and removed almost immediately.

The Nation ran a tiny article on St Onge and Bergheim and promptly buried it under the Swiss woman found strangled.

[Thai at Heart]

And this 6th death on Phuket blows the pesticide in the guest house water bottles theory out.

No it doesn't, as there is no proof at all that they are even connected.

That's a good point. But if there's one more .....

I can't believe Bangkok Post has totally ignored this story.

A synopsis of the deaths was posted on the forum and removed almost immediately.

The Nation ran a tiny article on St Onge and Bergheim and promptly buried it under the Swiss woman found strangled.

I wouldn't rely on the Nation or the Post to print anything too controversial at the moment. Thailand needs all the help it can get for tourism right now.

As an example, they just found containers with skulls dumped in the sea dotted around them and this has been rapidly relegated to the depths of the papers, whilst the authorities decide how to send a camera down!!!!!!! An amateur scuba diver could probably go down and give an opinion, but 7 days later, they have now decided it will be too costly to reclaim the containers. God forbid it was a broken telephone cable, they would have paid millions to fix it, or they could employ one of the hundreds of oil exploration people around the country to go down and do it for them.

But bodies probably of Thai people maybe drowned at sea, lets better not talk about it.

[sriracha john]

I wouldn't rely on the Nation or the Post to print anything too controversial at the moment. Thailand needs all the help it can get for tourism right now.

As an example, they just found containers with skulls dumped in the sea dotted around them and this has been rapidly relegated to the depths of the papers, whilst the authorities decide how to send a camera down!!!!!!! An amateur scuba diver could probably go down and give an opinion, but 7 days later, they have now decided it will be too costly to reclaim the containers. God forbid it was a broken telephone cable, they would have paid millions to fix it, or they could employ one of the hundreds of oil exploration people around the country to go down and do it for them.

But bodies probably of Thai people maybe drowned at sea, lets better not talk about it.

You should read the article by The Nation posted today and the article by the Bangkok Post posted today in the thread on that topic. It'll bring you up-to-date on some of your inaccuracies.

The thread's in the Pattaya Forum.

[CFIT]

I wouldn't rely on the Nation or the Post to print anything too controversial at the moment. Thailand needs all the help it can get for tourism right now.

As an example, they just found containers with skulls dumped in the sea dotted around them and this has been rapidly relegated to the depths of the papers, whilst the authorities decide how to send a camera down!!!!!!! An amateur scuba diver could probably go down and give an opinion, but 7 days later, they have now decided it will be too costly to reclaim the containers. God forbid it was a broken telephone cable, they would have paid millions to fix it, or they could employ one of the hundreds of oil exploration people around the country to go down and do it for them.

But bodies probably of Thai people maybe drowned at sea, lets better not talk about it.

You should read the article by The Nation posted today and the article by the Bangkok Post posted today in the thread on that topic. It'll bring you up-to-date on some of your inaccuracies.

The thread's in the Pattaya Forum.

Link please. Do you mean THai Visa , Pattaya forum? I cannot find it and please describe inaccuracies.

I know I keep referring to the Swiss woman as Swedish.

[Thai at Heart]

You should read the article by The Nation posted today and the article by the Bangkok Post posted today in the thread on that topic. It'll bring you up-to-date on some of your inaccuracies.

The thread's in the Pattaya Forum.

Ok, well I am glad that finding skulls in the sea made it all the way to the Pattaya forum. In most parts of the world it would be a massive story, but in terms of armed street riots, it doesn't get the heart fluttering the same way.

I read the story, and to hear how difficult it will be for the authorities to raise even one container from the bottom shows that obviously people would much rather leave them probably only 50m from the surface. I mean someone might actually have to get wet to go and find out what has happened, or is Porntip worried her hairdo wouldn't survive the swim?

http://www.bangkokpost.com/breakingnews/14...not-be-salvaged

Porntip: Container will not be salvaged

By: BangkokPost.com

Published: 17/05/2009 at 04:34 PM

Central Institute of Forensic Science (CIFS) director Porntip Rojanasunan said the cargo container under the sea off Juang island in Chon Buri's Sattahip district will not be hauled up for inspection.

Human skeletons and skulls were reportedly found along the container, and relatives of many victims of the Black May uprising in 1992 believed they could belong to their loved ones.

Dr Porntip said on Sunday that salvaging it would be too costly.

Obviously investigating a multiple homicide is too costly.

Authorities to find safest way to open containner : top forensic doctor

By The Nation

Mysterious containers on the seabed off Chon Buri's Sattahip district will remain sunk during the ongoing efforts to find out where they came from, Central Institute of Forensic Science director Khunying Porntip Rojanasunan said Sunday.

"Lifting the containers from the sea is ruled out because it will cost a lot of money," Porntip said,

"But we will be looking for the safest way to cut open the containers underwater".

http://nationmultimedia.com/2009/05/17/hea...es_30102874.php

Pairng maak, at least a couple of hundred thousand I am sure, or at least a million.

Obviously the oil industry doesn't send deep sea divers down to weld and cut underwater if it is a matter of priority to get the job done in times of need in places like the North sea for instance? Safest way to cut? I am not a deep sea diver, but I am sure there are a few options ranging from bolt cutters for a lock, to underwater ocetelene torches. I am just so glad that they are taking so much care and attention to get it right.

Of course, we will be extremely priveleged to find out in a week or so, that the containers were actually empty, and just by accident, the skulls were just sprinkled around about them like hundreds and thousands.

Camera to be used in search for remains

PROBE INTO UNDERSEA CONTAINER'S MYSTERY CONTENTS GOES HI-TECH

P

ublished: 17/05/2009 at 12:00 AM

Newspaper section: News

A cargo container retrieved from the sea off Juang island in Chon Buri's Sattahip district could be drilled to see if human skeletons lie inside.

Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva yesterday approved the drilling operation.

A small camera would be inserted through the hole to view the interior of the container.

However, Mr Abhisit said an estimate of the cost involved should be made first to avoid burdening state coffers.

Or is that just people clearing their throats. "Coughers"

[hhgz]

"(cyanide poisoning) initially turn(s) the victim a bright red colour ."

As does carbon monoxide poisoning.

[brahmburgers]

Hydrochloric acid (NCl) - is the prime ingredient in many drain cleaning solutions. In the states, it's diluted in commercial products, the most popular is "Liquid Plumber." However, Thai brands are sometimes sold undiluted. I know, because I bought the Thai product and it mangled plastic pipes in seconds, whereas Liquid Plumber would not have.

Ok, keep that in mind with the fact that cyanide is made more potent when mixed with HCl - indeed, that's the mix that was used in Nazi gas chambers.

So, you take a cess pool which somehow gets a load of cyanide dumped in to it (which, we assume is available locally at Phi Phi, because of fishermen). The g.h. staff decided to clean out drains with HCl (maybe diluted, doesn't matter). The combo could set off a highly toxic gas.

I should rein in my horses here, as it should be remembered that the prelim autopsy said 'stomach lining inflamed.' That would contrast with cyanide gas theory (mentioned above), because if it was toxic gas that injured and killed the travelers, then it stands to reason that their lungs would have been adversely affected. Thus far, I don't recall seeing/hearing mention of the condition of their lungs. Going with the 'inflamed/blistering stomach lining' report, it would have to have been something the travelers ingested orally. I'm not an expert on these things, so any informed insights would be appreciated.

I can't believe Bangkok Post has totally ignored this story. A synopsis of the deaths was posted on the forum and removed almost immediately. The Nation ran a tiny article on St Onge and Bergheim and promptly buried it under the Swiss woman found strangled.

The Bkk Post and the Nation are rather good papers. The Nation has been leaning more and more to pure business news, but that's beside the point. Both know which side their bread is buttered on, and steer away from highlighting news which might reflect badly on Thailand's image - unless they just cannot avoid it, like the Dec' closing of the airports, or April riots in Bkk. There must also be pressure from Thai politicos to try and keep the Phi Phi (and other regional) deaths low key. Add that to the fact that Thai detective prowess is inept, they probably figure it's better to report minimally, than to report wrong-headed conclusions or inaction on the part of authorities who should be doing a better job.

Edited May 17, 2009 by brahmburgers

[ParadiseLost]

"Lifting the containers from the sea is ruled out because it will cost a lot of money," Porntip said,

"But we will be looking for the safest way to cut open the containers underwater".

Is this not a fairly simple task? Inflatable bags are hooked to the container and filled with air...

[Soupdragon]

"Lifting the containers from the sea is ruled out because it will cost a lot of money," Porntip said,

"But we will be looking for the safest way to cut open the containers underwater".

Is this not a fairly simple task? Inflatable bags are hooked to the container and filled with air...

On containers that have been at the bottom of the sea for many years ? No not really would think they may be a little bit corroded which would mean slings would have to go underneath. Not an easy job.

People keep on about Phi Phi fisherman and cyanide. For a start Phi Phi is a tourist island not a fishing port, fishing boats sometimes shelter there but thats all. Does anyone have a shread of evidence that cyanide is used for fishing around Phi Phi ?? I think not.

[sriracha john]

I wouldn't rely on the Nation or the Post to print anything too controversial at the moment. Thailand needs all the help it can get for tourism right now.

As an example, they just found containers with skulls dumped in the sea dotted around them and this has been rapidly relegated to the depths of the papers, whilst the authorities decide how to send a camera down!!!!!!! An amateur scuba diver could probably go down and give an opinion, but 7 days later, they have now decided it will be too costly to reclaim the containers. God forbid it was a broken telephone cable, they would have paid millions to fix it, or they could employ one of the hundreds of oil exploration people around the country to go down and do it for them.

But bodies probably of Thai people maybe drowned at sea, lets better not talk about it.

You should read the article by The Nation posted today and the article by the Bangkok Post posted today in the thread on that topic. It'll bring you up-to-date on some of your inaccuracies.

The thread's in the Pattaya Forum.

Link please. Do you mean THai Visa , Pattaya forum? I cannot find it and please describe inaccuracies.

I know I keep referring to the Swiss woman as Swedish.

Yes, of course, Thaivisa's Pattaya Forum.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Sunken-Conta...ns-t262670.html

Sunken Containers and Skeletal Remains Discovered Offshore

btw, I wasn't referring to your references.

[sriracha john]

You should read the article by The Nation posted today and the article by the Bangkok Post posted today in the thread on that topic. It'll bring you up-to-date on some of your inaccuracies.

The thread's in the Pattaya Forum.

off-topic

off-topic

partially off-topic

Please consider posting in the linked thread where your posts would be on-topic. Thank you.

Edited May 17, 2009 by sriracha john

[brahmburgers]

A search on Nation newspaper site shows the most recent mention of the deaths at Phi Phi was May 8 - ten days earlier.

A search on Bangkok Post site was unfruitful, as their search provision is essentially useless.

We get half page spreads with some cutie holding the latest electronic gizmo from Japan, but no updates whatsoever on the half dozen mysterious deaths in Krabi/Phuket region - in one of the world's most popular tourist destinations.

[Priceless]

A search on Nation newspaper site shows the most recent mention of the deaths at Phi Phi was May 8 - ten days earlier.

A search on Bangkok Post site was unfruitful, as their search provision is essentially useless.

We get half page spreads with some cutie holding the latest electronic gizmo from Japan, but no updates whatsoever on the half dozen mysterious deaths in Krabi/Phuket region - in one of the world's most popular tourist destinations.

Maybe there are no new facts. Publishing that "the situation is still the same that we have been reporting for the last week" doesn't sell much copy. Remember that they are newspapers

/ Priceless

[JR Texas]

A search on Nation newspaper site shows the most recent mention of the deaths at Phi Phi was May 8 - ten days earlier.

A search on Bangkok Post site was unfruitful, as their search provision is essentially useless.

We get half page spreads with some cutie holding the latest electronic gizmo from Japan, but no updates whatsoever on the half dozen mysterious deaths in Krabi/Phuket region - in one of the world's most popular tourist destinations.

Maybe there are no new facts. Publishing that "the situation is still the same that we have been reporting for the last week" doesn't sell much copy. Remember that they are newspapers

/ Priceless

This is from the Chicago Tribune........the story is not dead, but they continue to focus on three tourists when we now know there are at least six mysterious deaths in the same region. I wonder if any serious journalists outside of Thailand are working on this story. Where is CNN on this?

http://www.chicagotribune.com/travel/chi-0...0,6859474.story

ThailandAuthorities are mystified by the deaths of three foreign tourists within a month on Koh Phi Phi, a popular tourist island off Thailand's Andaman coast. In three cases April 1 and May 3 and 4, two Norwegians and an American died of a mysterious illness whose symptoms in the first case included severe diarrhea and in the other cases severe vomiting and stomach pains. A blog post reported cyanide poisoning, but doctors and police ruled that out. Police have visited the guesthouses where the victims stayed and have not reported any evidence to suggest what might have happened. Autopsies are being done, but medical authorities do not expect conclusive results for at least a month.

[Town35]

The information about the other deaths seems like a tourist board nightmare. Is there another resort area in the world with this kind of recent record of violence and illness? Could it be that the economic downturn has changed something in food and beverage hygiene practices?

Regards,

Town

[brahmburgers]

A search on Nation newspaper site shows the most recent mention of the deaths at Phi Phi was May 8 - ten days earlier.

A search on Bangkok Post site was unfruitful, as their search provision is essentially useless.

We get half page spreads with some cutie holding the latest electronic gizmo from Japan, but no updates whatsoever on the half dozen mysterious deaths in Krabi/Phuket region - in one of the world's most popular tourist destinations.

Maybe there are no new facts. Publishing that "the situation is still the same that we have been reporting for the last week" doesn't sell much copy. Remember that they are newspapers

/ Priceless

I agree with you up to a point. However, no effective investigation could be termed news in itself. For example; if, for two weeks after OJ's wife and her lover were found murdered, the L.A. police department had done essentially nothing to investigate, It could be deemed as being newsworthy in itself.

Sample article for tomorrow's Nation or Bkk Post:

Police Investigators Appear Stymied.

Despite assurances that local police and inspectors would do all they could to uncover what may have caused the mysterious deaths at Ko Phi Phi, it appears there are many leads in the case which are not being pursued adequately. Thorough testing of the cess pool and the water treatment plant near the guest house, and any suspect chemicals on site, have apparently not been done. In-depth questioning of the guest house manager and the cleaning woman has apparently not been done either.

At least one body has been cremated soon after death, so soon, that there are doubts whether sufficient evidence was taken to be useful for forensic study. There is also doubt whether the two surviving companions to their friends who died - have been thoroughly interviewed - to see whether they could offer any useful information. To deepen the plot, there have been other mysterious deaths of at least three male tourists, before and after the two women at the center of the investigation. Concerned observers are keen to know if there is an on-going investigation, or if all the mysterious deaths have been deemed less than significant by local authorities, or ....perhaps such authorities have the willingness, but simply don't have the skills and/or equipment to do a proper investigation.

BB

reason for edit: spelling

Edited May 18, 2009 by brahmburgers

[Soupdragon]

A search on Nation newspaper site shows the most recent mention of the deaths at Phi Phi was May 8 - ten days earlier.

A search on Bangkok Post site was unfruitful, as their search provision is essentially useless.

We get half page spreads with some cutie holding the latest electronic gizmo from Japan, but no updates whatsoever on the half dozen mysterious deaths in Krabi/Phuket region - in one of the world's most popular tourist destinations.

Maybe there are no new facts. Publishing that "the situation is still the same that we have been reporting for the last week" doesn't sell much copy. Remember that they are newspapers

/ Priceless

I agree with you up to a point. However, no effective investigation could be termed news in itself. For example; if, for two weeks after OJ's wife and her lover were found murdered, the L.A. police department had done essentially nothing to investigate, It could be deemed as being newsworthy in itself.

Sample article for tomorrow's Nation or Bkk Post:

Police Investigators Appear Stymied.

Despite assurances that local police and inspectors would do all they could to uncover what may have caused the mysterious deaths at Ko Phi Phi, it appears there are many leads in the case which are not being pursued adequately. Thorough testing of the cess pool and the water treatment plant near the guest house, and any suspect chemicals on site, have apparently not been done. In-depth questioning of the guest house manager and the cleaning woman has apparently not been done either.

At least one body has been cremated soon after death, so soon, that there are doubts whether sufficient evidence was taken to be useful for forensic study. There is also doubt whether the two surviving companions to their friends who died - have been thoroughly interviewed - to see whether they could offer any useful information. To deepen the plot, there have been other mysterious deaths of at least three male tourists, before and after the two women at the center of the investigation. Concerned observers are keen to know if there is an on-going investigation, or if all the mysterious deaths have been deemed less than significant by local authorities, or ....perhaps such authorities have the willingness, but simply don't have the skills and/or equipment to do a proper investigation.

BB

reason for edit: spelling

Nice one like it, pretty much sums it up.

A condensed version could read "They can't give us any more money, we don't care".

[cmdream]

A search on Nation newspaper site shows the most recent mention of the deaths at Phi Phi was May 8 - ten days earlier.

A search on Bangkok Post site was unfruitful, as their search provision is essentially useless.

We get half page spreads with some cutie holding the latest electronic gizmo from Japan, but no updates whatsoever on the half dozen mysterious deaths in Krabi/Phuket region - in one of the world's most popular tourist destinations.

Maybe there are no new facts. Publishing that "the situation is still the same that we have been reporting for the last week" doesn't sell much copy. Remember that they are newspapers

/ Priceless

I agree with you up to a point. However, no effective investigation could be termed news in itself. For example; if, for two weeks after OJ's wife and her lover were found murdered, the L.A. police department had done essentially nothing to investigate, It could be deemed as being newsworthy in itself.

Sample article for tomorrow's Nation or Bkk Post:

Police Investigators Appear Stymied.

Despite assurances that local police and inspectors would do all they could to uncover what may have caused the mysterious deaths at Ko Phi Phi, it appears there are many leads in the case which are not being pursued adequately. Thorough testing of the cess pool and the water treatment plant near the guest house, and any suspect chemicals on site, have apparently not been done. In-depth questioning of the guest house manager and the cleaning woman has apparently not been done either.

At least one body has been cremated soon after death, so soon, that there are doubts whether sufficient evidence was taken to be useful for forensic study. There is also doubt whether the two surviving companions to their friends who died - have been thoroughly interviewed - to see whether they could offer any useful information. To deepen the plot, there have been other mysterious deaths of at least three male tourists, before and after the two women at the center of the investigation. Concerned observers are keen to know if there is an on-going investigation, or if all the mysterious deaths have been deemed less than significant by local authorities, or ....perhaps such authorities have the willingness, but simply don't have the skills and/or equipment to do a proper investigation.

BB

reason for edit: spelling

Nice one like it, pretty much sums it up.

A condensed version could read "They can't give us any more money, we don't care".

So where are the Norway and American Embassies on this ? It has been over 2 weeks. Autopsy results can be determined in a matter of hours. ( 1 was cremated after autopsy, where are the results?) No news indicates maleficence on someones part. Do the grieving parents have to hire lawyers and private investigators to find information on how and why their children were killed ! This is a disgrace. I would suggest an email campaign to the embassies here and the home countries after all tourists are still going to the island and the guesthouse is still open for business. "we are in contact with the family" just does not cut it with me. Daily updates from the embassy are in order. Transparency is the key word today.

[Krungthepian]

So where are the Norway and American Embassies on this ? It has been over 2 weeks. Autopsy results can be determined in a matter of hours. ( 1 was cremated after autopsy, where are the results?) No news indicates maleficence on someones part. Do the grieving parents have to hire lawyers and private investigators to find information on how and why their children were killed ! This is a disgrace. I would suggest an email campaign to the embassies here and the home countries after all tourists are still going to the island and the guesthouse is still open for business. "we are in contact with the family" just does not cut it with me. Daily updates from the embassy are in order. Transparency is the key word today.

I think we need to bear in mind this is a major crisis for Phi Phi, an island whose income is derived from tourism.. This story got a lot of interest via CNN and other outlets.

My guess is the authorities have tried to slow or stop any release of information as much as possible. And the small handful of people who may have an insight into this have been told to say nothing literally for a few weeks till things cool down.

Phuketwan.com was set up by a very experienced Aust reporter (Alan Morison); I reckon it's worth checking their site more than the Phuket Gazette, which has lost a fairly capable editor (Chris Husted). The Phuket Post is only a small newspaper but it has an experienced journo, on the other hand I get the impression he's been instructed not to write "negative" news.

Thing is these people and other reporters in Bangkok won't forget about this case. It's just a matter of them having something to write at present. There is probably only a few cops and maybe one or two doctors who can talk about this case and it looks like they're saying 'we don't know till we get the test results back' and they've claimed that's gonna take a month. Maybe a deliberate ploy so the media loses interest and gets focused on the containers off Sattahip, etc.

Another problem is the partners or friends of the deceased have gone back home overseas and thus aren't around to update reporters. Embassies will report to them, not to the press, and there's a fair chance they haven't got conclusive evidence either.

If you read the stories on the Phuketwan site and the stuff on this thread it's tough to make an educated guess as to what happened. It looks like poisoning yet the doctor thought it was something they drank. The American boyfriend of one lady rejected that out of hand so it's still hard to work out what killed them.

The interesting thing for me was the drinking culture on the island at night; people walking round with buckets getting plastered. You can see perhaps why the doctor that Phuketwan interviewed thought that was a possible explanation.

Think we're just gonna have to be patient with this one, unless some foreign cop goes down and is prepared to quietly give some insight into what may have occurred.

[balo]

This story was reported in the news from the Norwegian radiostation P4 today :

http://www.p4.no/story.aspx?id=309982

Google translation:

Sewage plant may have spread the infection

A sewage plant may have spread the infection, the Norwegian Julie Michelle Bergheim became sick and died on the Phi Phi island.

According to the newspaper VG the sewage plant have serious errors.

The plant would have be an environmental project, but has been an stink bomb and a health risk to neighbors and tourists. Bergheim lived only a few meters from the plant

---------------------------------

I'm still waiting fior more news about this.

[Thai at Heart]

This story was reported in the news from the Norwegian radiostation P4 today :

http://www.p4.no/story.aspx?id=309982

Google translation:

Sewage plant may have spread the infection

A sewage plant may have spread the infection, the Norwegian Julie Michelle Bergheim became sick and died on the Phi Phi island.

According to the newspaper VG the sewage plant have serious errors.

The plant would have be an environmental project, but has been an stink bomb and a health risk to neighbors and tourists. Bergheim lived only a few meters from the plant

---------------------------------

I'm still waiting fior more news about this.

As far as I know they were foreign designed by a very reputable company after the tsunami. Unless someone operating it has done something very stupid, or it has been running completely over capacity, it would be pretty unlikely source of this problem.

Of course over here, who knows how it was actually being operated.

[JR Texas]

This story was reported in the news from the Norwegian radiostation P4 today :

http://www.p4.no/story.aspx?id=309982

Google translation:

Sewage plant may have spread the infection

A sewage plant may have spread the infection, the Norwegian Julie Michelle Bergheim became sick and died on the Phi Phi island.

According to the newspaper VG the sewage plant have serious errors.

The plant would have be an environmental project, but has been an stink bomb and a health risk to neighbors and tourists. Bergheim lived only a few meters from the plant

---------------------------------

I'm still waiting fior more news about this.

If true, it stands to reason that it would not have been isolated to foreign tourists only; many people would have been infected, foreigners and Thais. Unless, of course, it was an isolated "leak" that only reached the foreign victims living area.

I find this explanation hard to believe. Six mysterious deaths in a little over two months in the same region. I think something else happened.

[CFIT]

This story was reported in the news from the Norwegian radiostation P4 today :

http://www.p4.no/story.aspx?id=309982

Google translation:

Sewage plant may have spread the infection

A sewage plant may have spread the infection, the Norwegian Julie Michelle Bergheim became sick and died on the Phi Phi island.

According to the newspaper VG the sewage plant have serious errors.

The plant would have be an environmental project, but has been an stink bomb and a health risk to neighbors and tourists. Bergheim lived only a few meters from the plant

---------------------------------

I'm still waiting fior more news about this.

If true, it stands to reason that it would not have been isolated to foreign tourists only; many people would have been infected, foreigners and Thais. Unless, of course, it was an isolated "leak" that only reached the foreign victims living area.

I find this explanation hard to believe. Six mysterious deaths in a little over two months in the same region. I think something else happened.

More like barely 6 weeks

April 1 - May 14

Someone wrote, I think it was Phuket Rex, (who has since not posted) that the water treatment plant is actually quite innocuous , and uses plants to filter.

Writing CNN, BBC etc with a synopisis of these events might help, start posting on message boards.

I have reached a decision too, I've been comtemplating it for a while but because of these recent developments, time to leave Thailand.

Just too easy to...expire and nothing will be done.

[Scott]

Who builds a guesthouse next to a sewage treatment plant or who lets a sewage treatment plant be built next to a guesthouse????

[Thai at Heart]

This would appear to be the the link to the designers and consultants on the project. There can't be too many waste water treatment centres on Phi Phi. It would appear to be a top notch project.

http://www.cowi.com/menu/news/newsarchive/...thetropics.aspx

This appears to be a huge organisation with a history of world wide projects.

http://www.cowi.com/menu/projects/Pages/projects.aspx

[sriracha john]

Agree with the doubtful comments about the waste water plant being responsible. Additionally, the guests that were staying directly above and beside the American couple and Norwegian women would have also been effected.

Understandably, it seems people are grasping at straws to find an explanation for what happened.

For me, the key explanation lies in the toxicological results of the autopsies. These do, unfortunately, take time to conduct.

p.s. Again, a repeated thanks to balo and his translation of the Norwegian side of the news. It is a very valuable contribution and I thank you again for posting them. Please continue.

[Town35]

Good day - An article in the Phuketwan gives a maid's account of seeing both sick couples just before they all sought medical help. The state of dress of the victims could offer insight. Something hit them while in they were in the room so hard that even their modesty was discarded and the Norwegians did not even attempt to seek help. I am aware that carbon monoxide poisoning can sometimes incapacitate a person so badly that many victims cannot even think clearly enough to walk out of the house for help. Does anything else in this case sound like carbon monoxide poisoning? Was a generator running outside nearby? Or is it even possible for carbon monoxide get sucked from outside to inside? I wouldn't call this a theory since there is no indication that it could have even been possible. Just curious if there may be other facts that make this a possibility.

http://phuketwan.com/tourism/phi-phi-myste...-account-11080/

Cheers -- Town

[warfie]

Good day - An article in the Phuketwan gives a maid's account of seeing both sick couples just before they all sought medical help. The state of dress of the victims could offer insight. Something hit them while in they were in the room so hard that even their modesty was discarded and the Norwegians did not even attempt to seek help. I am aware that carbon monoxide poisoning can sometimes incapacitate a person so badly that many victims cannot even think clearly enough to walk out of the house for help. Does anything else in this case sound like carbon monoxide poisoning? Was a generator running outside nearby? Or is it even possible for carbon monoxide get sucked from outside to inside? I wouldn't call this a theory since there is no indication that it could have even been possible. Just curious if there may be other facts that make this a possibility.

http://phuketwan.com/tourism/phi-phi-myste...-account-11080/

Cheers -- Town

No, with carbon monoxide poisoning the victim generally just goes to sleep and never wakes-up... which it is a chosen form of suicide. Nice and quiet and easy. These guys on the other hand were highly distressed and uncomfortable, violently ill.

[OzMick]

A lot of inaccurate information about Legionaires on this forum. I worked as a Industrial Water Treatment Tech. for more than 10 years and part of our job was to treat cooling towers. The Legionaires Bacteria has to be transported in water droplets and these droplets have to be small enough for you to inhale them.

In original case of this in Phildeliphia the cooling tower mist was discharging over the front door to the hotel. The Legionairs who contacted the diease, all had compromised immune systems caused from lack of sleep, drinking and old age. they were walking in and out of the front door thru the mist every day breathing in the bacteria.

Another case in New Orleans happened in the produce section of a super market, the misters that spray water over the vegetables and fruit was determined to be the source of the outbreak.

You cannot get Legionaires by drinking water with the bacteria in it and penacillian is the most effective treatment. As most A/C units in these guest houses are split units and no cooling towers are used Legionaires is more than likely not an issue.

At last someone talks some sense. I also had many years experience working water treatment, and agree that legionairre's disease occurs in cooling tower type AC units, not the small split units used here, and is as likely as monoxide or phosgene gas - both ridiculous.

Edited May 21, 2009 by OzMick