Motorcycles On Thailand Freeways?

[johndpoole]

My GF and I have a bet on this ... She says motorcycles (Choppers) cannot drive on the Thru-Ways (toll highways) in Thailand. Being from America I told her that actual motorcycles can go anywhere cars can go but she insists I am wrong and it is not just scooters that cannot ride on the Freeways.

** I am calling these roads Thru-ways but I am talking about the Thailand Highways wich require you to pay a toll ... what we call Freeways (in Calif. since they are free) and Interstates or Turnpikes & Thru-ways in other parts of the USA.

Hopefully I will not lose the 10k Baht on this but even if I am right I am know that I won't be seeing 10k from her but at least I could use it as a marker for the next bet I lose ;-)

[Chaam local]

I have no clue either, but I'm not sure whether there is a distinction here between "actual motorbikes" and "scooters". If this distinction doesn't exist, then your g/f is probably right.

Interesting question, though, I'm waiting for a definite answer too.

[thaieagle67]

Say goodbye to 10 grand. No motorcycles/scooters of any engine size are allowed to use the tollways of Thailand, although you may still see a few trying! This is a big bone of contention with many of us motorcyclists but many car drivers think the rule should stay, so the debate continues but the law is fact.

Just FYI, this is a subject discussed at length by various forum members on the Motorbike Forum.

[PeaceBlondie]

TOLL ROADS - you lose.

[Slaps]

GIVE HER THE MONEY

It wont be the last

[Lovedog100]

Even in America there is a minimum horsepower before being allowed on the freeways. Most stated will not allow a 250cc motorcycle on an interstate. I don't think that they have that size distinction here, or so the Thai's tell me.

[edwinchester]

A Thai Policeman friend of the family says no motorcycles of any size are allowed on the toll roads......pay up.

[NALAK]

motorbikes allowed on toll ways, seen many times but all have one thing in common guys dressed in brown carrying guns etc. wife is correct no bikes on toll way Thailand except the cops

Edited December 28, 2009 by NALAK

[spud1]

Bikes certainly cannot ride on the tollways or even the main ringroad around Bangkok.I suggest you give up gambling.

[Rinrada]

Can ride on Freeways (motorways)..but Not Toll Ways...........

[Zzinged]

Civilian motorcycles of any description can not drive on:

Toll roads

The main lanes of certain freeways (motorbikes have to use the frontage road, if present)

Any bridges that cross over intersections

Any lane other than the leftmost lane

Sidewalks

Certain bridges going over the river

Any elevated road

Any underground tunnel going under an intersection

Edited December 28, 2009 by Zzinged

[Bagwan]

Civilian motorcycles of any description can not drive on:

Toll roads

The main lanes of certain freeways (motorbikes have to use the frontage road, if present)

Any bridges that cross over intersections

Any lane other than the leftmost lane

Sidewalks

Certain bridges going over the river

Any elevated road

Any underground tunnel going under an intersection

My understanding is that motor cycles are permitted to use the pavements (sidewalks) if the roads are very busy. Who decides whether the volume of traffic is too heavy is anyone's guess. The whole concept is ludicrous but it must be true. TiT.

[johndpoole]

LOL - Thanks guys!

Now I can, at least partially, understand why I see so few motorcycles on the road in Thailand ... except for those parked outside the Hard Rock Cafe.

[Spoonman]

LOL - Thanks guys!

Now I can, at least partially, understand why I see so few motorcycles on the road in Thailand ... except for those parked outside the Hard Rock Cafe.

I see thousands of bikes in Thailand, which hard rock you talkin bout ???

[LivinLOS]

Civilian motorcycles of any description can not drive on:

The main lanes of certain freeways (motorbikes have to use the frontage road, if present)

Any bridges that cross over intersections

Certain bridges going over the river

Any elevated road

Any underground tunnel going under an intersection

Didnt know about frontage roads.. Thats not handled like that in the country..

Same with bridges over intersections.. Raised roads.. Tunnels under raised roads..

You sure those are not bangkok only restrictions ??

Are there any identifying marks / signs to display this ??

[snowflake]

I have an idea,

Get on your bike, bring your GF...

Drive to the road you argue about and then go up and down past the police, if they stop you... Well, then you know the rule--

Big bikes are not allowed on TOLL Roads, but not sure you will be fined on them... (being white they might just kick you off)... Have never tried, but I am dreaming of a big bike on the toll way at 0300.... How fast can one ride in Bangkok???

PS,,, Pay the money!!!

[wjmark]

I did it. From Bkk to almost Rayong.

Last year I took my CBR150 on a bus (from CM) to just outside Bkk. They dumped me on the side of the highway at 6:30am, pointed up another highway, and said "Rayong".

In a light rain, I went along this empty highway for about 20k, and came to a toll booth entrance to the highway. There was no way around it (it was in the middle of nowhere), and the only option was to go back towards Bkk and come around another way - adding about 60km to the trip.

I put on my hard-done-by face, and the toll-collector told me to get off my bike and push it across the line. Didn't take any money, and made the hand-cuff sign to me...

About 7:00am I entered the toll-way, and away I went. I zipped along at 140-145 in the fast lane for more than half an hour, I didn't care about about the right lane law, as I was already beyond redemption...

I also went through 2 more toll-booths. The first one looked at me as if I was from another planet (I am actually - my planet allows bikes on motorways), and just let me through. The second one tried halfheartedly to wave me over, but I drove past him and kept going.

The only thing in the right-hand lanes were a few Mercs and BMW's - going way faster than me. I moved out of their way.

After about an hour total, I lost my bottle (as they say), and dropped off at the next exit. Took another hour to do the next 60k to Rayong...

It was kinda neat feeling to realize that I was the ONLY bike (other than cops') on any toll-way anywhere in Thailand .

Yah - fun. Good pavement. No soi dogs.

I hear the fine is 2,000 baht. Worth it if you are rich or lucky - go for it...

[Garry]

GIVE HER THE MONEY

It wont be the last

A Thai Policeman friend of the family says no motorcycles of any size are allowed on the toll roads......pay up.

motorbikes allowed on toll ways, seen many times but all have one thing in common guys dressed in brown carrying guns etc. wife is correct no bikes on toll way Thailand except the cops

Bikes certainly cannot ride on the tollways or even the main ringroad around Bangkok.I suggest you give up gambling.

Yep, pay up.

Mind you I wish it was allowed to go on Toll Roads though, considering some of the POS cars and trucks I've seen on them at times.

Edited December 29, 2009 by Garry

[PoorSucker]

Here's another one.

You can not overtake a car.

You must pass it on left side.

[VocalNeal]

Civilian motorcycles of any description can not drive on:

Toll roads

The main lanes of certain freeways (motorbikes have to use the frontage road, if present)

Any bridges that cross over intersections

Any lane other than the leftmost lane

Sidewalks

Certain bridges going over the river

Any elevated road

Any underground tunnel going under an intersection

There is NO law in Thailand that says motorbikes MUST ride in the left lane. Yes the BIB collect money but there is no law.

What the law does say is that all traffic must drive on the left, ie the left lane except when overtaking. This is all traffic cars included. What the BIB do is stand in the left lane forcing all to go around and..........

If you can find it written somewhere we would all be grateful.

[johndpoole]

LOL - Thanks guys!

Now I can, at least partially, understand why I see so few motorcycles on the road in Thailand ... except for those parked outside the Hard Rock Cafe.

I see thousands of bikes in Thailand, which hard rock you talkin bout ???

The comment was in reference to actual motorcycles and no scooters, bicycles or three-wheeled restaurants. There are very few actual motorcycles in and around Bangkok as compared to the population and western countries in areas where weather and traffic make riding convenient.

My guess would be that the speed at which Bangkok is modernizing and the number of those with limited funds has made most view these scooters as being the definition of an actual motorcycle since they are so abundant.

[SeanMoran]

What puzzles me now is that last week I was flagged down around 10 metres from the carpark of these apartments, where I'd just pulled out and turned right, to amble up to the minimart around 300m away in the siding lane on the right side of the highway, like all the other motorcyclists do around here, and politely told that I must use the U-turn break in the median strip (like 'most' cars do) and ride over a km to the traffic lights to make another u-turn and another 700-800 odd metres back to the minimart, like the cars do.

I take it that my Honda 125 has now been classified as a car, and thus I feel obliged to travel the same way as cars from now on, seeing I am not allowed to be like the other motorcyclists here. Still, it's not worth wasting time trying to pass through a toll booth.

PS: A motorcycle can have a displacement of 100-200cc and its petrol tank under the seat allowing for a step-thru sort of frame /side-cover arrangement, but if the engine is still located in the frame, then it is a motorcycle, not a scooter. Scooters have the engine mounted unsprung at the rear wheel, not in the frame like motorbikes do. Don't be deceived by the outward appearance of Thai bikes. They ain't scooters.

Edited December 29, 2009 by SeanMoran

[johndpoole]

Even in America there is a minimum horsepower before being allowed on the freeways. Most stated will not allow a 250cc motorcycle on an interstate. I don't think that they have that size distinction here, or so the Thai's tell me.

I also believe that their are restriction on scooters since they are now available over 250cc and some states (I believe California) only require 150cc to be driven on a highway. In most states a scooter also doesn't require a motorcycle operator license where any street legal motorcycle does to ride on any public road. I have never encountered a scooter of any size on a US Interstate which leaves me to believe it is illegal as there are just as many stupid people in the US as in Thailand. Though I would venture to guess most in America are more informed of the dangers of say ... putting a helmet on yourself and wife and then jumping on any two-wheel vehicle with your two kids, who aren't wearing helmets, and heading out the the busiest and most congested streets in your country and driving the opposite way of the flow of traffic.

I think part of the issue with defining scooters at the DMV in many states is that they just are not all that popular in the US as a method of transportation and many DMV's may still lump them in with mopeds which did take off in the US for a brief period a few decades ago.

[johndpoole]

What puzzles me now is that last week I was flagged down around 10 metres from the carpark of these apartments, where I'd just pulled out and turned right, to amble up to the minimart around 300m away in the siding lane on the right side of the highway, like all the other motorcyclists do around here, and politely told that I must use the U-turn break in the median strip (like 'most' cars do) and ride over a km to the traffic lights to make another u-turn and another 700-800 odd metres back to the minimart, like the cars do.

I take it that my Honda 125 has now been classified as a car, and thus I feel obliged to travel the same way as cars from now on, seeing I am not allowed to be like the other motorcyclists here. Still, it's not worth wasting time trying to pass through a toll booth.

PS: A motorcycle can have a displacement of 100-200cc and its petrol tank under the seat allowing for a step-thru sort of frame /side-cover arrangement, but if the engine is still located in the frame, then it is a motorcycle, not a scooter. Scooters have the engine mounted unsprung at the rear wheel, not in the frame like motorbikes do. Don't be deceived by the outward appearance of Thai bikes. They ain't scooters.

I don't mean to sound like a teacher here but am not sure why you don't think you should obey traffic laws the same as a car does if you are riding on a public road with cars... even if you are on a bicycle.

And the scooters we see in Thailand are scooter and are defined as such by their manufacturers. I tried to do a quick google search to find more info but only came up with this http://www.motor-scooters-guide.com/motorcycle-scooter.html

I am by no way saying they may not be powerful (over powered) but they no way compare to a motorcycle design and can avoid many of the safety standards required of a motorcycle in a modernized country. I don't care how many cc's or where the engine is mounted but when you have the floor board and bicycle type tires and machine that can easily be blown over by a semi on an Interstate ... it is a scooter.

[SeanMoran]

I don't mean to sound like a teacher here but am not sure why you don't think you should obey traffic laws the same as a car does if you are riding on a public road with cars... even if you are on a bicycle.

In Thailand, there are different laws for cars and motorcycles, even to the point of parking spaces. Personally, I attribute many of the injuries and fatalities of motorcyclists to this double standard, that promotes a dangerous kind of disrespect for motorcyclists by many car drivers, particularly when there is a good chance that those on motorcycles will not be alive to tell their side of the story to the police after they have been knocked off into a concrete barrier or another car.

It has been the norm here in this rural village on the side of a main highway since I first arrived four and a half years ago, for motorcyclists to cruise slowly along the right-hand side of the road verge, giving way to ALL traffic including those entering from sois, to avoid having to ride an extra two kilometres to make the next U-turn at the traffic lights. It's simply the done thing here, and I can see the reason why it's the way they do it. There's a very long median strip, and luckily motorbikes are as wide as a pedestrian anyway, there being no footpaths for most of the length between here and the minimart.

Now though, since the police have told me that I am not allowed to do like all the other motorcyclists here do, I assume that my Honda is now classified as a car, so I will do the 2km u-turn to get to the shop when I have to, and ride in whatever lane on the highway seems the safest at 100km/h or more, and it's only occasionally the siding, where there is no end of cars pulling out, or parking, or the same motorbikes riding along at 40km/h in either direction. The left lane is definititely safer than the siding at 100km/h, because nobody respects motorcyclists. I'm glad that I am now a 125cc car rider.

And the scooters we see in Thailand are scooter and are defined as such by their manufacturers. I tried to do a quick google search to find more info but only came up with this http://www.motor-scooters-guide.com/motorcycle-scooter.html

I am by no way saying they may not be powerful (over powered) but they no way compare to a motorcycle design and can avoid many of the safety standards required of a motorcycle in a modernized country. I don't care how many cc's or where the engine is mounted but when you have the floor board and bicycle type tires and machine that can easily be blown over by a semi on an Interstate ... it is a scooter.

Don't be deceived by the outward appearance of Thai bikes. They ain't scooters.

As pasted from the link you provided:

Motorcycle engines are typically exposed and mounted midway between the front and rear wheels. The engine's power is then transmitted to the rear wheel via a driveline consisting of sprocket and chain, a drive shaft or belt drive.

In a gas scooter, though, the engine is typically mounted in front of the rear wheel. Because it is connected directly to the wheel, a secondary driveline is not necessary. Also, having the engine so low means the scooter enjoys a lower center of gravity, making it easier to balance and control.

It is actually not a car, but it is definitely not a scooter, my Honda. Comprehende?

[johndpoole]

I did a little more checking and it appears that the definition of a motorcycle varies greatly from region to region. In Thailand it appears this is greatly do to the fact there are so few (what I term) motorcycles. I guess many Thais refer to standard motorcycles as Choppers were in America we refer to choppers as motorcycles with extended front forks. It looks like many European countries consider anything about 50cc to fall into what they call motorcycle class. In the US some states may also use the definition by CC BUT...

The United States Department of Transportation defines a scooter as having a platform for the operator's feet or has integrated footrests, and has a step-through architecture. http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/rules-regulations...section=571.123

With the more powerful scooters becoming available it is easy to see why many can be considered motorcycles but a simple look at a motorcycle and a scooter the difference is easily recognizable. Or do a Google picture search on each and you will see how the vast majority defines the two machines because there is a clear distinction in their design AND abilities.

[johndpoole]

It is actually not a car, but it is definitely not a scooter, my Honda. Comprehende?

Oh wow -- now I see where the car came in. Sorry about that, I only saw the bottom of your posts with the quotes.

I apologize, I had no idea motorcycles/scooters could actually do some of what they do here in Thailand. In the states there are also slight differences in areas with parking of the two and such but ALL have to obey the same traffic laws.

[SeanMoran]

I did a little more checking and it appears that the definition of a motorcycle varies greatly from region to region. In Thailand it appears this is greatly do to the fact there are so few (what I term) motorcycles. I guess many Thais refer to standard motorcycles as Choppers were in America we refer to choppers as motorcycles with extended front forks. It looks like many European countries consider anything about 50cc to fall into what they call motorcycle class. In the US some states may also use the definition by CC BUT...

The United States Department of Transportation defines a scooter as having a platform for the operator's feet or has integrated footrests, and has a step-through architecture. http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/rules-regulations...section=571.123

With the more powerful scooters becoming available it is easy to see why many can be considered motorcycles but a simple look at a motorcycle and a scooter the difference is easily recognizable. Or do a Google picture search on each and you will see how the vast majority defines the two machines because there is a clear distinction in their design AND abilities.

It seems that the USA DoT definition misses the main differentior between motorcycles and scooters; that being the mounting of the engine, as your previous link explained (as I pasted earlier). I hope that is clear without pasting it a second time.

As for the minor aspects, such as the placement of the fuel tank in front or under the seat, the first two motorbikes I have owned had the tanks under the seats: as Suzuki 125 2-stroke, and then an Honda Wave 100cc 4-stroke, while the LS125 I have now looks like a motorbike might in other countries, with the tank up front, where it looks impressive to the sheilas but very impractical for loading cargo like rucksacks when I go on an overnighter such as last night, or on an interprovincial tour, so it would seem.

All three bikes have/had manual clutches, footpegs rather than footwells, and most importantly, the engines where motorbike engines are meant to go.

See? The first two were just as much motorbikes as this new one, even though they had that nice cargo space in front of the seat for good long-distance touring sense.

[johndpoole]

I did a little more checking and it appears that the definition of a motorcycle varies greatly from region to region. In Thailand it appears this is greatly do to the fact there are so few (what I term) motorcycles. I guess many Thais refer to standard motorcycles as Choppers were in America we refer to choppers as motorcycles with extended front forks. It looks like many European countries consider anything about 50cc to fall into what they call motorcycle class. In the US some states may also use the definition by CC BUT...

The United States Department of Transportation defines a scooter as having a platform for the operator's feet or has integrated footrests, and has a step-through architecture. http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/rules-regulations...section=571.123

With the more powerful scooters becoming available it is easy to see why many can be considered motorcycles but a simple look at a motorcycle and a scooter the difference is easily recognizable. Or do a Google picture search on each and you will see how the vast majority defines the two machines because there is a clear distinction in their design AND abilities.

It seems that the USA DoT definition misses the main differentior between motorcycles and scooters; that being the mounting of the engine, as your previous link explained (as I pasted earlier). I hope that is clear without pasting it a second time.

As for the minor aspects, such as the placement of the fuel tank in front or under the seat, the first two motorbikes I have owned had the tanks under the seats: as Suzuki 125 2-stroke, and then an Honda Wave 100cc 4-stroke, while the LS125 I have now looks like a motorbike might in other countries, with the tank up front, where it looks impressive to the sheilas but very impractical for loading cargo like rucksacks when I go on an overnighter such as last night, or on an interprovincial tour, so it would seem.

All three bikes have/had manual clutches, footpegs rather than footwells, and most importantly, the engines where motorbike engines are meant to go.

See? The first two were just as much motorbikes as this new one, even though they had that nice cargo space in front of the seat for good long-distance touring sense.

I have never considered the differences between a Scooter and a Motorcycle before and have always just based it on looks ... largely the open front section like a girls bicycle and the floor boards.

I recently looked up the physical characteristics of Asian and European people too. Interestingly there are many beyond what my concious brain would process when I see somebody who looks Asian. So, in both these case it is clear I am more ignorant on the subjects than I previously thought.

With that said ... in my opinion from just looking the 2nd bike is clearly a Scooter and the first bike also appears to be one but a little hard to tell since it is loaded. However, one thing I do see missing is the floor board that is typical of scooters. I guess there must by hybrids too but what is confusing me now is the actual USA definitition. I know it must vary by state DMV but in most cases scooters don't require a Motorcycle lisence. And if you go into a motorcycle shop they either only sell scooters (what I believe they are) or motorcycles and if they do sell both they are clearly seperated.

If the DOT is the authority then it would seem the two bikes above I think are scooters would actually be classified as motorcycles and require all sorts of more registration, taxes, import duties and lisencing.

[johndpoole]

I did a little more checking and it appears that the definition of a motorcycle varies greatly from region to region. In Thailand it appears this is greatly do to the fact there are so few (what I term) motorcycles. I guess many Thais refer to standard motorcycles as Choppers were in America we refer to choppers as motorcycles with extended front forks. It looks like many European countries consider anything about 50cc to fall into what they call motorcycle class. In the US some states may also use the definition by CC BUT...

The United States Department of Transportation defines a scooter as having a platform for the operator's feet or has integrated footrests, and has a step-through architecture. http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/rules-regulations...section=571.123

With the more powerful scooters becoming available it is easy to see why many can be considered motorcycles but a simple look at a motorcycle and a scooter the difference is easily recognizable. Or do a Google picture search on each and you will see how the vast majority defines the two machines because there is a clear distinction in their design AND abilities.

It seems that the USA DoT definition misses the main differentior between motorcycles and scooters; that being the mounting of the engine, as your previous link explained (as I pasted earlier). I hope that is clear without pasting it a second time.

As for the minor aspects, such as the placement of the fuel tank in front or under the seat, the first two motorbikes I have owned had the tanks under the seats: as Suzuki 125 2-stroke, and then an Honda Wave 100cc 4-stroke, while the LS125 I have now looks like a motorbike might in other countries, with the tank up front, where it looks impressive to the sheilas but very impractical for loading cargo like rucksacks when I go on an overnighter such as last night, or on an interprovincial tour, so it would seem.

All three bikes have/had manual clutches, footpegs rather than footwells, and most importantly, the engines where motorbike engines are meant to go.

See? The first two were just as much motorbikes as this new one, even though they had that nice cargo space in front of the seat for good long-distance touring sense.

I have never considered the differences between a Scooter and a Motorcycle before and have always just based it on looks ... largely the open front section like a girls bicycle and the floor boards.

I recently looked up the physical characteristics of Asian and European people too. Interestingly there are many beyond what my concious brain would process when I see somebody who looks Asian. So, in both these case it is clear I am more ignorant on the subjects than I previously thought.

With that said ... in my opinion from just looking the 2nd bike is clearly a Scooter and the first bike also appears to be one but a little hard to tell since it is loaded. However, one thing I do see missing is the floor board that is typical of scooters. I guess there must by hybrids too but what is confusing me now is the actual USA definitition. I know it must vary by state DMV but in most cases scooters don't require a Motorcycle lisence. And if you go into a motorcycle shop they either only sell scooters (what I believe they are) or motorcycles and if they do sell both they are clearly seperated.

If the DOT is the authority then it would seem the two bikes above I think are scooters would actually be classified as motorcycles and require all sorts of more registration, taxes, import duties and lisencing.

PS ... are you driving the Honda LS here in Thailand? It is rare I ever see crotch rocket type bikes here. The few I do see are older cafe or chopper style bikes.