Canadian Confesses, Pays Fine At Phuket Court

[Jingthing]

Yeah they just assume the plane loads of suckers will keep coming and they are probably right. If the planes stopped coming, they wouldn't make the connection between their lack of action and that consequence. So take it or leave it. However, I do hope there is a way people can get good information BEFORE they travel so they know what they are getting themselves into.

[SeanMoran]

... I think the attitude of the people has changed massively over the last 2 or 3 years...

That is precisely what I have been trying to work out how to explain as some sort of precognitive post in that other 'How Will Thailand Cope?' thread, for I lived in this room in these apartments in this province four years ago for a few months, and booked in for a night or three whenever I had the time three years ago, and was then stranded overseas until last month, and the attitude of the majority of the people is not the same as it was then, but rather miserable if you look beyond the veneer.

Here in this rural village in Rayong it is nothing like the tourist centre of Phuket, but I'd venture to say it's quite a bit hotter and more humid, and maybe there are other indirect economical factors not so related to tourism, but between the heat and the lack of business/trade/employment or maybe it's some Thaksin lamentation - nobody even wants me to notice it let alone tell me the cause of it, but Mabkha has changed massively over the last three or four years. I hope it changes back sometime soon, for there's not much to smile about here anymore.

(Sorry to drift off-topic. Just addressing that single point about Phuket, as it might be nationwide if my eyes and ears don't deceive me.)

[Reasonableman]

I think the psychologists call that projection, when you attribute your own motivations/perceptions to others...actually it is wrong, insulting and degrading to many farang who are not in the country for those reasons. But thank you for making the reasons for your own presence in the country known to all.

OK Guys ... everyone relax!

If it wasn't for the cheap pussy how many of you would honestly stay in Thailand?

Everyone knows that anyone lame, cripple, old or sick will get layed in Thailand... be honest with yourselves.... love Thaialand ...my arse... coz you can't get it outside of Thailand...

[lubbkis]

We cannot generalize that farangs are arrogant or all tu-tuk or taxi drivers are bad.

In the land of smiles one has to show patience. Even the poor tuk-tuk driver asked more for the short

travel, after 50 B is nothing.

While I was traveling in Sri Lanka the auto rickshaw driver did the same thing. But I paid the fare without argument . I do not blame these poor workers . One has to adapt and adjust to the

conditions of a foreign land.

Then I asked him if I could take his picture and he said sure. He gave me a nice smile and I took the shot. Can anyone imagine being able to do this back in England or the USA? You would probably get shot.

It is now illegal for anyone other than the police to take pictures of anything in the UK. The upside is that nobody gets shot.

[jboras]

I think the psychologists call that projection, when you attribute your own motivations/perceptions to others...actually it is wrong, insulting and degrading to many farang who are not in the country for those reasons. But thank you for making the reasons for your own presence in the country known to all.

OK Guys ... everyone relax!

If it wasn't for the cheap pussy how many of you would honestly stay in Thailand?

Everyone knows that anyone lame, cripple, old or sick will get layed in Thailand... be honest with yourselves.... love Thaialand ...my arse... coz you can't get it outside of Thailand...

Forgot to mention that the good stock (of girls) have married and left Thailand with their husbands... not stayed there milking their (so called farang husbands) away supporting their extended, extended Thai families.... not much good stock left around now... and FYI I have been in Thailand for 32 years since the days when Thailnd was really Thailand... nowadays... it's not! It's just a melting pot of scum that comes there to get laid... That is why even the old ladies have dropped their sickles at the rice farms and moved to the resorts to drop their panties ... easier and faster money... That is the truth.. like it or not...

[Jirapa]

Yeah they just assume the plane loads of suckers will keep coming and they are probably right. If the planes stopped coming, they wouldn't make the connection between their lack of action and that consequence. So take it or leave it. However, I do hope there is a way people can get good information BEFORE they travel so they know what they are getting themselves into.

What are you talking about? "Getting themselves into?" Getting themselves into what? Coming to Thailand on holiday is "getting yourself on vacation" and nothing else. You wanna see the shithole I grew up in back in the day and you'd invite anyone here for a safe stay! Thailand's safe and cool and that's why I'm living here. Thais are lovely even the police if you take the time to get to know them and not be in fear of them

Edited January 7, 2010 by Jirapa

[jboras]

I think the psychologists call that projection, when you attribute your own motivations/perceptions to others...actually it is wrong, insulting and degrading to many farang who are not in the country for those reasons. But thank you for making the reasons for your own presence in the country known to all.

OK Guys ... everyone relax!

If it wasn't for the cheap pussy how many of you would honestly stay in Thailand?

Everyone knows that anyone lame, cripple, old or sick will get layed in Thailand... be honest with yourselves.... love Thaialand ...my arse... coz you can't get it outside of Thailand...

.... and it is not the psycholigists... It was Freud Sigmund, that proposed the theory of Personality Projection...if you like I can tell you all about it...

[mpdkorat]

I have never replied to a post like this one before, but I must admit this follow up post made me P*ss myself. I would just like to know what some of the guys that posted in the previous post are feeling like now.

I hate to read a post of some interest and then have to wade through pages of B*llocks just to get a few more facts.

Made my point will not do it again....

[Reasonableman]

It's part of the truth not all of the truth. Guess you must be moving in the wrong circles... There is another side of Thailand that is not at all seamy and putrid, and it should be defended from further decay.

I think the psychologists call that projection, when you attribute your own motivations/perceptions to others...actually it is wrong, insulting and degrading to many farang who are not in the country for those reasons. But thank you for making the reasons for your own presence in the country known to all.

OK Guys ... everyone relax!

If it wasn't for the cheap pussy how many of you would honestly stay in Thailand?

Everyone knows that anyone lame, cripple, old or sick will get layed in Thailand... be honest with yourselves.... love Thaialand ...my arse... coz you can't get it outside of Thailand...

Forgot to mention that the good stock (of girls) have married and left Thailand with their husbands... not stayed there milking their (so called farang husbands) away supporting their extended, extended Thai families.... not much good stock left around now... and FYI I have been in Thailand for 32 years since the days when Thailnd was really Thailand... nowadays... it's not! It's just a melting pot of scum that comes there to get laid... That is why even the old ladies have dropped their sickles at the rice farms and moved to the resorts to drop their panties ... easier and faster money... That is the truth.. like it or not...

[AnthonyR1]

like a few people said b4 me; i can't presume to know what happened for sure as i wasn't there. i do know this though........i never take tuktuks for good reason

[Honolulu]

One thing is obvious from the story. The driver in this case, and many, many others I have met while living here, seem to have forgotten the GOLDEN RULE of business. " The customer is always right"!

[rkidlad]

It's all over now. There's definitely something rotten in Denmark, but we knew there always would be.

Why is it such a taboo to complain or question anything in Thailand if you're a 'foreigner'?

In England we complain a lot. I've spoken to 'foreign' people and listened to their compaints, too. If they these 'foreigners' in England were constantly complaining how crap the weather was; sure, I'd say go home then.

A part from things that can't be changed, I welcome critisism of 'my' country. If no one ever complained, we would think nothing was wrong and nothing would ever change. (Oh, the irony)

At the end of the day, if something is wrong or immoral; question it. Then by the grace of god, things might get better. This might be a foreign concept, but right is right and wrong is wrong.

I had a Thai girl complaining how much she hated studying in New Zealand. She said they were all racist and looked down on Asians. I simply said 'In any country, you get good people and bad people. I hope you'll learn from this experience to never look down on anyone and think you're better than them'

Anyway, I digressed. There's two-sides to every story.

By the way I live in England.

[simon43]

I am getting seriously worried about the IQ level of some posters on this thread.

George, could you not implement an IQ threshhold that all TV members must achieve before they are allowed to post comments?.

A level of about 80 should help to remove a lot of these idiots

My 2c worth? Regardless of whether Anwar was guilty of assault, the manner in which this incident was handled by the Phuket authorities indicates to me that their combined IQ must be way below the 80 mark. Are they not aware of the global reporting and comment accessible via Google, Twitter etc?

Let's wait for the next incident. Perhaps we will see a video on YouTube....

Simon

[happyinkathu]

I have friends who did in fact see the canadian first verbally, and then physically attack the driver!!

BUT consider the following..long i know but shows the facts.

I am the first to agree that violence is not always the way to solve a problem,but please ,all you expats consider what goes on in your own countries,they are not immune to these types of goings on at all. Most taxi and/or tuk-tuk drivers anywhere in the world are not exactly rocket scientists but most are good people, and it only takes a few bad apples to upset the works.

The difference is that in expats home countries these people are probably on a salary plus percent as income or they are owner drivers..The few bad apples there are either greedy and/or predatory in an bid to increse their take home pay.

In phuket only 20% are owner drivers, so the majority are leasees.These guys have to pay 500 baht dailey in the high season, and 300 baht in the low,[ and the low these days is probably at least 8 months long] to their collective employers..Who they are i can not find out yet, but no doubt they are in the upper end of society!and anonamous for their own protection.

They ,like any mafia around the world have underlings to do their menial tasks, such as finance collection,self protection,standovers, etc.Basically these upper enders are the very ones that some of you misguided expats think are the ones to appeal to to stop this rot. IMPOSSIBLE..They are not at all concerned.

What you are seeing is the tip of the iceburg [the drivers] .They are visible to us at all times, and sadly when one snaps due to the situation they are in regards finances in this quiet high season the sh--t hits the fan and ,well look at some of the outragious comments posted, unbelievable statements from some 'educated expats', quite embarressing some of them!

Anyway back to the root cause of all this; The drivers [scapegoats] are made the villain in all this.

Like i said ,high season..500 baht, low season 300 baht to be paid to the MAN. Come hel_l or high water this money MUST be paid.

They are given grace of 3 days of non pay ,then they get the visit.A beating, followed by the taking back of the tuk-tuk and basically told GO HOME and don't return..huge loss of face as well as loss of employment. Of course there is a queue of potential new drivers waiting to take his place to earn BIG MONEY [as they are told] and this cycle repeats and repeats.

And the uppers naturally want more and more tuk-tuks to provide more and more daily income...not a problem in their eyes.

Consider the sheer number of tuk-tuks now,compared to the lower number of fares, and you don't have to be Einstein to see that the drivers are stuggling to meet their financial obligations, after also paying running costs, it is near impossible to earn a basic living even now , let alone after Feb.

The consequence of all this is exactly what we see now!

When times get tough[er] a man will react, often violently in a bid to have at least some income.

This is the case in the whole TWO incidents so far regarding drivers over reacting!!

IMO this is going to get far, far more common an occurance as time goes on, as more and more drivers can not meet their obligations to the secretive bosses.....Desperate people often make the wrong decisions..thats human nature!!

I agree totally, If you want to get rid of a problem, you need to go to the source! I nearly gave up on TV, as it seems lately it is just full of ads and post from people who would be better off not having a computer IMHO. It's a delight to read something so well thought through! Thank you.

Thank you jbhh and i totally agree with your comment re; ''posts from people who would be better off not having a computer""

It is very obvious that these people are sensationalists and have no idea of the real goings on in this ''saga''..much addo about not much at all in the grander scheme of things.

It seems to me that those who are included in the above,with all there handwringing and breastbeating, about the potential demise of Phuket,seem to have this desire for my chosen home to suffer this fate [demise] so they can come back later and say..see i told you so!

You have read and understood the facts as i posted, but sadly, and as a reflection of the ''motives'' of the above people, they choose to ignore this and go off on there little personal vendettas and Thai bashing as usual.The guy that wants to go a bash 'em all is a great ambassador for his country..two wrongs don't make a right bud!...all talk or hopefully just a comedianne...

[Brewsta]

There are always 3 sides to a story: Yours, Mine and the plain, dispassionate facts.

There are similar choices of reaction, where fact is replaced by 'an opinion'.......

Unfortunately, too often these 'aggravation' threads degenerate into Playground Prattle and I am normally minded to leave those Childish OP's (a minority on TV mostly, thank Buddha) alone with their attempted witty reparte (?!) and milk on their Bibs - you know who you are.

I am Brewsta and wish all the adults on TV a very pleasant evening

[Maestro]

Troll posts and flames and the replies to them are being deleted, with warnings issued where necessary.

--

Maestro

[happyinkathu]

One thing is obvious from the story. The driver in this case, and many, many others I have met while living here, seem to have forgotten the GOLDEN RULE of business. " The customer is always right"!

Sure but what if the customer gets right in your face, poking his finger , screaming etc, and then actually kicks you ,albeit only in the leg, not chest as told, [fact!!] He is right but moreso he is very wrong>>

[SCARLETIBIS1]

Lets be honest with ourselve's how are you going to get justice in a country who's own people think curruption is the way of life this statement was said by thais not farangs.

Thats why your a 3rd world country with 3rd world education standards and justice. All phuket has going for it is its climate, nothing more, I for 1 hope you sink into the bog where you came from before us bad farangs soiled your island LOL. You the thais in this room were not slagging us farangs off when we funded you after the tsunami were you, where was the money from your governer.

If justice is served right in thailand why is your Ex prime minister hel_l bent on bringing your goverment down and why has he not served his jail term. Answear this although thinking that far ahead is way beyond your bog standard thai. som nom nah.

Right on except you made one statement that is factually incorrect. Thailand has a loooong way to go before it can be called a 'Third World Country'. Look for an email avalanche of protest from such places as Lalaland, Screwyouland, Landofscamsland and other such countries

[Thai at Heart]

I think that the Gazette should give the guy a ring one he has left Thailand and get his side of this trial.

Does this "conviction"make him unable to return to Thailand? If so, he should speak up if he has experienced anything the constitutes a dodgy trial.

[MegaMik]

Love to see what this forum got to say now .

seem like the cry wolf had been caught and of cos he is a tourist and a 1000b fine is ok and he can go ..

what happen to yesterday .. big words about how we should punish the Tuk tuk driver .. what about the tourist , how about he go to jail .

This is really a Farang experience -

what is new

and all this cos of 50b

Now there, don't put your foot in your mouth.

I know for a fact that the Canadian guy only tried to avoid getting hit in the face whilest THE TWO tuk tuk drivers (the first one called for help, to hold him still apparently) beat him up.

I live in Phuket not far away from where it happened and according to my neighbours, YES, Thai people, the Canadian was assaulted, alas a victim, not a perprutrator.

So now you know, poor little tuk tuk drivers, they have to beat up farrangs because they don't pay the already overpriced fare.

Agree with many, he should have paid and swallowed the loss of 50 TBH, but what did the tuk tuk driver accomplish? Absolutely nothing!

[SCARLETIBIS1]

I have friends who did in fact see the canadian first verbally, and then physically attack the driver!!

BUT consider the following..long i know but shows the facts.

I am the first to agree that violence is not always the way to solve a problem,but please ,all you expats consider what goes on in your own countries,they are not immune to these types of goings on at all. Most taxi and/or tuk-tuk drivers anywhere in the world are not exactly rocket scientists but most are good people, and it only takes a few bad apples to upset the works.

The difference is that in expats home countries these people are probably on a salary plus percent as income or they are owner drivers..The few bad apples there are either greedy and/or predatory in an bid to increse their take home pay.

In phuket only 20% are owner drivers, so the majority are leasees.These guys have to pay 500 baht dailey in the high season, and 300 baht in the low,[ and the low these days is probably at least 8 months long] to their collective employers..Who they are i can not find out yet, but no doubt they are in the upper end of society!and anonamous for their own protection.

They ,like any mafia around the world have underlings to do their menial tasks, such as finance collection,self protection,standovers, etc.Basically these upper enders are the very ones that some of you misguided expats think are the ones to appeal to to stop this rot. IMPOSSIBLE..They are not at all concerned.

What you are seeing is the tip of the iceburg [the drivers] .They are visible to us at all times, and sadly when one snaps due to the situation they are in regards finances in this quiet high season the sh--t hits the fan and ,well look at some of the outragious comments posted, unbelievable statements from some 'educated expats', quite embarressing some of them!

Anyway back to the root cause of all this; The drivers [scapegoats] are made the villain in all this.

Like i said ,high season..500 baht, low season 300 baht to be paid to the MAN. Come hel_l or high water this money MUST be paid.

They are given grace of 3 days of non pay ,then they get the visit.A beating, followed by the taking back of the tuk-tuk and basically told GO HOME and don't return..huge loss of face as well as loss of employment. Of course there is a queue of potential new drivers waiting to take his place to earn BIG MONEY [as they are told] and this cycle repeats and repeats.

And the uppers naturally want more and more tuk-tuks to provide more and more daily income...not a problem in their eyes.

Consider the sheer number of tuk-tuks now,compared to the lower number of fares, and you don't have to be Einstein to see that the drivers are stuggling to meet their financial obligations, after also paying running costs, it is near impossible to earn a basic living even now , let alone after Feb.

The consequence of all this is exactly what we see now!

When times get tough[er] a man will react, often violently in a bid to have at least some income.

This is the case in the whole TWO incidents so far regarding drivers over reacting!!

IMO this is going to get far, far more common an occurance as time goes on, as more and more drivers can not meet their obligations to the secretive bosses.....Desperate people often make the wrong decisions..thats human nature!!

I agree totally, If you want to get rid of a problem, you need to go to the source! I nearly gave up on TV, as it seems lately it is just full of ads and post from people who would be better off not having a computer IMHO. It's a delight to read something so well thought through! Thank you.

You make some interesting points however, however I am curious where you got the stat that only 20% of the drivers own the tuk tuks. How many are there in total and what did you do talk to all of them? Second, I have been to Hua Hin twice where it appears you may reside. I found it interesting that on both occassions no matter where or how far I had to go the fee was 150 baht to start. Seems like someone got together to collude on a set price.

As far as the poor drivers queing up to take over a failed driver I find that hard to believe. These people althougth uneducated all seem to know each other no matter what the business they are in. Stupid is what stupid does but no one can be that stupid can they????

[dasy]

He had to plead guilty or lose his flight.

That happened to me when I was at the airport from a taxi ripping me off and I refused to pay some extortionate amount. The tourist police said to me - Pay it or you will come to the station. I could not refuse the payment, or I would have had to get a new flight.

Justice in this case... NO, IMO, he had to pay to leave the country or it would have cost him another small fortune to get another flight out.... Sometimes principals are best left at home.

TBS

Principles? he should have kept his principles before and pay the 150 Baht as he agreed to pay.

David

[OxfordWill]

--

maybe i should had said walk away from payment .

-- tell me if you are a Taxi driver in your country ,, and a thai . took your taxi .. and refuse to pay full fare as agree between you .

what would you advice . or what would you had done .

-

You like to refer to theory so let's ignore the specifics of this Canadian and turn for a moment to the reality of what happened in my country when a Thai had a similar situation.

In 2003 my Thai friend came to England. He *agreed* a price of £250 to be taken from the airport in London to the address in inner London where he was staying. He did not, as a tourist, know how far it was and also was not yet familiar with local taxi prices. He knew this was alot of money but he also expected England to be expensive and figured it may be the norm. Upon arriving at the address later he realised it was a short trip and questioned the price. The driver said a deal is a deal but the Thai said it was very expensive for such a short trip so asked reception how much it should have been- and reception said something like £50. The Thai went out to the driver to collect his final bag and said would £70 be ok instead as he was not rich. The taxi driver said OK- and they shook hands. The taxi driver, I suspect, was slightly ashamed, as he was at core something of a decent human being and knew he was still charging way over the "actual value" of the service provided.

True story. The Thai felt his welcome to England was not a great one but he also felt happy the compromise had been reached. I know if I had been present I would have not only berated the taxi driver, I would have taken his license and done my best to ensure he had some serious trouble. How dare he treat a guest who was innocent and new in our country to such a sting? All other english people (at least, the ones I associate with) would be equally horrified, and would if present in the situation have ensured the taxi driver felt truly ashamed.

What I would not do is start trying to defend his actions especially not with ridiculous calls to theory as you do. It doesnt matter if the canadian in this situation started it, or if he just felt he said he should. None of the specifics of this situation matter since you are the one wanting to defend the theory of beating someone up after they question an obviously overcharged price agreed upon in what is in most ways a manner of deceit.

Edited January 7, 2010 by OxfordWill

[Brewsta]

Troll posts and flames and the replies to them are being deleted, with warnings issued where necessary.

--

Maestro

Thanks Maestro, time the kids were in bed anyway, eh?

regards,

Brewsta

[tropo]

I have friends who did in fact see the canadian first verbally, and then physically attack the driver!!

BUT consider the following..long i know but shows the facts.

I am the first to agree that violence is not always the way to solve a problem,but please ,all you expats consider what goes on in your own countries,they are not immune to these types of goings on at all. Most taxi and/or tuk-tuk drivers anywhere in the world are not exactly rocket scientists but most are good people, and it only takes a few bad apples to upset the works.

The difference is that in expats home countries these people are probably on a salary plus percent as income or they are owner drivers..The few bad apples there are either greedy and/or predatory in an bid to increse their take home pay.

In phuket only 20% are owner drivers, so the majority are leasees.These guys have to pay 500 baht dailey in the high season, and 300 baht in the low,[ and the low these days is probably at least 8 months long] to their collective employers..Who they are i can not find out yet, but no doubt they are in the upper end of society!and anonamous for their own protection.

They ,like any mafia around the world have underlings to do their menial tasks, such as finance collection,self protection,standovers, etc.Basically these upper enders are the very ones that some of you misguided expats think are the ones to appeal to to stop this rot. IMPOSSIBLE..They are not at all concerned.

What you are seeing is the tip of the iceburg [the drivers] .They are visible to us at all times, and sadly when one snaps due to the situation they are in regards finances in this quiet high season the sh--t hits the fan and ,well look at some of the outragious comments posted, unbelievable statements from some 'educated expats', quite embarressing some of them!

Anyway back to the root cause of all this; The drivers [scapegoats] are made the villain in all this.

Like i said ,high season..500 baht, low season 300 baht to be paid to the MAN. Come hel_l or high water this money MUST be paid.

They are given grace of 3 days of non pay ,then they get the visit.A beating, followed by the taking back of the tuk-tuk and basically told GO HOME and don't return..huge loss of face as well as loss of employment. Of course there is a queue of potential new drivers waiting to take his place to earn BIG MONEY [as they are told] and this cycle repeats and repeats.

And the uppers naturally want more and more tuk-tuks to provide more and more daily income...not a problem in their eyes.

Consider the sheer number of tuk-tuks now,compared to the lower number of fares, and you don't have to be Einstein to see that the drivers are stuggling to meet their financial obligations, after also paying running costs, it is near impossible to earn a basic living even now , let alone after Feb.

The consequence of all this is exactly what we see now!

When times get tough[er] a man will react, often violently in a bid to have at least some income.

This is the case in the whole TWO incidents so far regarding drivers over reacting!!

IMO this is going to get far, far more common an occurance as time goes on, as more and more drivers can not meet their obligations to the secretive bosses.....Desperate people often make the wrong decisions..thats human nature!!

This is all very informative but the only way to solve this problem is for the local government to step in and take full control of all public transport. Until that happens nothing will change and criminals will always be in charge. It's just the way things always go in an unregulated environment.

I don't blame the drivers or their mafia bosses. I blame the local government.

[Ta22]

You like to refer to theory so let's ignore the specifics of this Canadian and turn for a moment to the reality of what happened in my country when a Thai had a similar situation.

In 2003 my Thai friend came to England. He *agreed* a price of £250 to be taken from the airport in London to the address in inner London where he was staying. He did not, as a tourist, know how far it was and also was not yet familiar with local taxi prices. He knew this was alot of money but he also expected England to be expensive and figured it may be the norm. Upon arriving at the address later he realised it was a short trip and questioned the price. The driver said a deal is a deal but the Thai said it was very expensive for such a short trip so asked reception how much it should have been- and reception said something like £50. The Thai went out to the driver to collect his final bag and said would £70 be ok instead as he was not rich. The taxi driver said OK- and they shook hands. The taxi driver, I suspect, was slightly ashamed, as he was at core something of a decent human being and knew he was still charging way over the "actual value" of the service provided.

True story. The Thai felt his welcome to England was not a great one but he also felt happy the compromise had been reached. I know if I had been present I would have not only berated the taxi driver, I would have taken his license and done my best to ensure he had some serious trouble. How dare he treat a guest who was innocent and new in our country to such a sting? All other english people (at least, the ones I associate with) would be equally horrified, and would if present in the situation have ensured the taxi driver felt truly ashamed.

What I would not do is start trying to defend his actions especially not with ridiculous calls to theory as you do.

This is a very good reply .

is the Art of bargaining at work .

is how you speak that give you the result .

and of cos no 2 event is the same -- we do not knwo what happen and all we got is someone heard what was told and nobody was really there .

for your info £20 over charged is ( what 1000b+++not sure what the exchange rate )

-------

in my personal view . i think is not worth the trouble .

for 50b .

plus he agree to it .

not sure if 50b is even £1

---

let not compare exchange rate

while the same thing might happen to different people - some are just more skillful at solving such problem .. if he keep his cool .

---

so far we are all feeding on junk info and guessing

---

that what make this junk forum so fun . is full of people who time to speard feeding on junk info

.

all the best to all tourist . and oh yeh Happy new years to you guys

how is the new years coming

[blaze]

I have friends who did in fact see the canadian first verbally, and then physically attack the driver!!

BUT consider the following..long i know but shows the facts.

I am the first to agree that violence is not always the way to solve a problem,but please ,all you expats consider what goes on in your own countries,they are not immune to these types of goings on at all. Most taxi and/or tuk-tuk drivers anywhere in the world are not exactly rocket scientists but most are good people, and it only takes a few bad apples to upset the works.

The difference is that in expats home countries these people are probably on a salary plus percent as income or they are owner drivers..The few bad apples there are either greedy and/or predatory in an bid to increse their take home pay.

In phuket only 20% are owner drivers, so the majority are leasees.These guys have to pay 500 baht dailey in the high season, and 300 baht in the low,[ and the low these days is probably at least 8 months long] to their collective employers..Who they are i can not find out yet, but no doubt they are in the upper end of society!and anonamous for their own protection.

They ,like any mafia around the world have underlings to do their menial tasks, such as finance collection,self protection,standovers, etc.Basically these upper enders are the very ones that some of you misguided expats think are the ones to appeal to to stop this rot. IMPOSSIBLE..They are not at all concerned.

What you are seeing is the tip of the iceburg [the drivers] .They are visible to us at all times, and sadly when one snaps due to the situation they are in regards finances in this quiet high season the sh--t hits the fan and ,well look at some of the outragious comments posted, unbelievable statements from some 'educated expats', quite embarressing some of them!

Anyway back to the root cause of all this; The drivers [scapegoats] are made the villain in all this.

Like i said ,high season..500 baht, low season 300 baht to be paid to the MAN. Come hel_l or high water this money MUST be paid.

They are given grace of 3 days of non pay ,then they get the visit.A beating, followed by the taking back of the tuk-tuk and basically told GO HOME and don't return..huge loss of face as well as loss of employment. Of course there is a queue of potential new drivers waiting to take his place to earn BIG MONEY [as they are told] and this cycle repeats and repeats.

And the uppers naturally want more and more tuk-tuks to provide more and more daily income...not a problem in their eyes.

Consider the sheer number of tuk-tuks now,compared to the lower number of fares, and you don't have to be Einstein to see that the drivers are stuggling to meet their financial obligations, after also paying running costs, it is near impossible to earn a basic living even now , let alone after Feb.

The consequence of all this is exactly what we see now!

When times get tough[er] a man will react, often violently in a bid to have at least some income.

This is the case in the whole TWO incidents so far regarding drivers over reacting!!

IMO this is going to get far, far more common an occurance as time goes on, as more and more drivers can not meet their obligations to the secretive bosses.....Desperate people often make the wrong decisions..thats human nature!!

Since you have friends who saw the Canadian initiate the violence, why do you find it nescesary to try to excuse the tuk tuk driver on the basis that he has a hard life. Isnt' self protection sufficient justification for beating the tourist. But can your friends explain why, after the Canadian had kicked the driver, he waited around while the driver phoned his buddies- surely they must have found that a bit odd and related that part to you...

[Jingthing]

Since you have friends who saw the Canadian initiate the violence

Imaginary friends. Who actually believes this story? Who actually believes the tuk tuk driver? Who actually believes the Canuck did not confess under duress? I have a bridge to sell you ...

Edited January 7, 2010 by Jingthing

[Credo]

All this stuff in Phuket is starting to make Pattaya look pretty good.

[IvanDobsky]

so far we are all feeding on junk info and guessing

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that what make this junk forum so fun . is full of people who time to speard feeding on junk info

.

all the best to all tourist . and oh yeh Happy new years to you guys

how is the new years coming

I guess we all need a place to vent our spleen but "junk" is open to interpretation : it could be anything from Thai television to some of the 'meatballs' you find in noodle soups.

No smoke without fire, throw enough doo-dah and some of it sticks. Both mean the same thing to me and my family regarding Phuket = stay away!

The new year is good so far thanks I hope it gets better and not any worse for the Canadian gentleman.