Hamas.

Yet you bought into the Turkish "humanitarian" ships hook, line and sinker.

??? What was there to buy?....Oh.....Was it another conspiracy theory

Turkey has been growing more Islamic for the past several years. Why do you conspiracy theorists seem to believe another party is pulling their strings?

Perhaps they are simply carrying out their attempt to become an Islamic society and, perhaps, trying to gloss over the genocide they have perpetrated in the past on the Kurds and Armenians.

Not to mention the Greek Cypriot problem.

All fine and dandy to know and trust people actually there on the ground with first hand knowledge but until the Huffington Post puts on their website that it's true some here won't believe a word of it.

hhhmm, all fine and dandy? like intel on the WMDs? Like Iraq was behind 911?

The word on the ground with first hand knowledge maybe correct, but when the "spin" comes out from the Pentagon etc, you have to wonder.

The intel on WMDs show that Saddam led a successful disinformation campaign. The fact that the Republican Guard themselves thought Iraq had WMDs is further proofof that.

I know it's a mantra of the Left but I've never read or heard anywhere that Iraq was behind 9/11.

Bush brought into that one early, he even started talking about WMDs during his presidential campaign in 2000

there were often quotes from the Bush adminstration linking al Qaeda and Saddam Hussein, that he was aiding and harbouring them

hhhmm, all fine and dandy? like intel on the WMDs? Like Iraq was behind 911?

The word on the ground with first hand knowledge maybe correct, but when the "spin" comes out from the Pentagon etc, you have to wonder.

The intel on WMDs show that Saddam led a successful disinformation campaign. The fact that the Republican Guard themselves thought Iraq had WMDs is further proofof that.

I know it's a mantra of the Left but I've never read or heard anywhere that Iraq was behind 9/11.

Bush brought into that one early, he even started talking about WMDs during his presidential campaign in 2000

Please don't take this as an insult, but are you too young to remember EVERY politcian in the USA talking about Iraq having WMDs in the decade leading up to the war? Not just the "evil neo-cons", but Bill Clinton, Gore, Kerry, Hillary, etc?

there were often quotes from the Bush adminstration linking al Qaeda and Saddam Hussein, that he was aiding and harbouring them

That IS NOT the same thing as being behind 9/11. The Nazis weren't behind Pearl Harbour but they were still linked to the Japanese.

Sorry, getting off-topic again. Bringing it on home...

Israel supposedly has nukes but I have never read that Arab nations in the region are afraid of Israel. Why is that? Why are the mostly Sunni Arabs in the region more concerned with Shiite Persians than of the Zionist Jews?

Turkey has no right to get on a high horse over Israeli human rights violations. One word -- KURDS!

Turkey has no right to get on a high horse over Israeli human rights violations. One word -- KURDS!

That is true. Maybe there are calculating that the Palestinian issue is better known worldwide than the their Kurdish problem and therefore they will still appear in a good light in many countries? Or that other countries in the West which are not too happy with Israel will be less likely to embarrass a new anti-Israel ally by bringing up the Kurds. Either way, it is rather hypocritical.

I only have one question about your vacation trips. Why Saudi Arabia??

lived there for quite a number of years, have a bunch of saudi friends, like the country, love the life style (even though pork chops, bavarian weisswurst, pata negra ham, Portwine and Sherry are only available at a premium and with great difficulties).

I quite like living there. It has it's upsides and downsides but so does everywhere else. However, when I do finally leave, I can't see me being in a hurry to go back and vacation there. Mainly due to the difficulties in obtaining (but not impossible ) the items you refer to.

mixed messages from Obama & Biden

Obama says no way, Biden says up to you

Obama: No green light for Israel to attack Iran

Please don't take this as an insult, but are you too young to remember EVERY politcian in the USA talking about Iraq having WMDs in the decade leading up to the war? Not just the "evil neo-cons", but Bill Clinton, Gore, Kerry, Hillary, etc?

There is no doubt that they had them at one point. They gassed the Kurds.

Please don't take this as an insult, but are you too young to remember EVERY politcian in the USA talking about Iraq having WMDs in the decade leading up to the war? Not just the "evil neo-cons", but Bill Clinton, Gore, Kerry, Hillary, etc?

There is no doubt that they had them at one point. They gassed the Kurds.

no doubt?

your definition of WMDs is different than the CIAs then

Central Intelligence Agency released a report saying that no weapons of mass destruction had been found in Iraq"

My link

In his final word, the CIA's top weapons inspector in Iraq said Monday that the hunt for weapons of mass destruction has "gone as far as feasible" and has found nothing, closing an investigation into the purported programs of Saddam Hussein that were used to justify the 2003 invasion."After more than 18 months, the WMD investigation and debriefing of the WMD-related detainees has been exhausted," wrote Charles Duelfer, head of the Iraq Survey Group, in an addendum to the final report he issued last fall.

"As matters now stand, the WMD investigation has gone as far as feasible."

There is no doubt that they had them at one point. They gassed the Kurds.

no doubt?

your definition of WMDs is different than the CIAs then

Central Intelligence Agency released a report saying that no weapons of mass destruction had been found in Iraq"

My link

In his final word, the CIA's top weapons inspector in Iraq said Monday that the hunt for weapons of mass destruction has "gone as far as feasible" and has found nothing, closing an investigation into the purported programs of Saddam Hussein that were used to justify the 2003 invasion."After more than 18 months, the WMD investigation and debriefing of the WMD-related detainees has been exhausted," wrote Charles Duelfer, head of the Iraq Survey Group, in an addendum to the final report he issued last fall.

"As matters now stand, the WMD investigation has gone as far as feasible."

So you are saying that according to the CIA, the gas used on the Kurds in the 80's isn't classified as a WMD? Interesting.

Typical left-wing, strawman spin.

Please don't take this as an insult, but are you too young to remember EVERY politcian in the USA talking about Iraq having WMDs in the decade leading up to the war? Not just the "evil neo-cons", but Bill Clinton, Gore, Kerry, Hillary, etc?

There is no doubt that they had them at one point. They gassed the Kurds.

Yes indeed. I believe they were bought/donated from the USA.

The Washington Post reported that in 1984 the CIA secretly started providing intelligence to the Iraqi army. This included information that was used by the Iraqis in targeting chemical weapons strikes. The same year it was confirmed beyond doubt by European doctors and UN expert missions that Iraq was employing chemical weapons against the Iranians.^[39] Most of these occurred during the Iran–Iraq War, but WMDs were used at least once to crush the popular uprisings of 1991.^{[citation needed]} Chemical weapons were used extensively, with more than 100,000 Iranian soldiers as victims of Saddam Hussein's chemical weapons during the eight-year war with Iraq,^[40] Iran today is the world's second-most afflicted country by weapons of mass destruction, only after Japan.The Washington Post reported that in 1984 the CIA secretly started providing intelligence to the Iraqi army. This included information that was used by the Iraqis in targeting chemical weapons strikes. The same year it was confirmed beyond doubt by European doctors and UN expert missions that Iraq was employing chemical weapons against the Iranians.^[39] Most of these occurred during the Iran–Iraq War, but WMDs were used at least once to crush the popular uprisings of 1991.^{[citation needed]} Chemical weapons were used extensively, with more than 100,000 Iranian soldiers as victims of Saddam Hussein's chemical weapons during the eight-year war with Iraq,^[40] Iran today is the world's second-most afflicted country by weapons of mass destruction, only after Japan.

ah yes...

Published on Wednesday, December 18, 2002 by the

lndependent/UK

Leaked Report Says German and US Firms Supplied Arms to Saddam

Baghdad's uncensored report to UN names Western companies alleged to have developed its weapons of mass destruction

by Tony Paterson in Berlin

Iraq's 11,000-page report to the UN Security Council lists 150 foreign companies, including some from America, Britain, Germany and France, that supported Saddam Hussein's weapons of mass destruction program, a German newspaper said yesterday.

-----------------------------------------------------

http://www.iranchamb...arming_iraq.php

July, 1984. CIA begins giving Iraq intelligence necessary to calibrate its mustard gas attacks on Iranian troops. [19]

May, 1986. The US Department of Commerce licenses 70 biological exports to Iraq between May of 1985 and 1989, including at least 21 batches of lethal strains of anthrax. [3]

May, 1986. US Department of Commerce approves shipment of weapons grade botulin poison to Iraq. [7]

Late 1987. The Iraqi Air Force begins using chemical agents against Kurdish resistance forces in northern Iraq. [1]

February, 1988. Saddam Hussein begins the "Anfal" campaign against the Kurds of northern Iraq. The Iraq regime used chemical weapons against the Kurds killing over 100,000 civilians and destroying over 1,200 Kurdish villages. [8]

April, 1988. US Department of Commerce approves shipment of chemicals used in manufacture of mustard gas. [7]

Perfect business model!

- Sell them the weapons

- Start a war against them

- Sell more weapons to the 'Allies' and new regime

- Go to step one. Repeat.

Printing loony anti-Western propaganda from Iranian websites does not exactly convince anyone that any of your conspiracy theories contain even a grain of truth.

So you are saying that according to the CIA, the gas used on the Kurds in the 80's isn't classified as a WMD? Interesting.

oops my bad, I stand corrected

- they did with supplies from their former friends

Sorry, but they had their own biological weapons program and plenty of WMDs.

Iraq and weapons of mass destruction

During the Presidency of Saddam Hussein, the nation of Iraq used, possessed, and made efforts to acquire weapons of mass destruction (WMD). Hussein was internationally known for his use of chemical weapons in the 1980s against Kurdish civilians during and after the Iran–Iraq War. It is also known that in the 1980s he pursued an extensive biological weapons program and a nuclear weapons program.

After the 1990-1991 Persian Gulf War, the United Nations located and destroyed large quantities of Iraqi WMD and related equipment and materials throughout the early 1990s, with varying degrees of Iraqi cooperation and obstruction

http://en.wikipedia....ass_destruction

So you are saying that according to the CIA, the gas used on the Kurds in the 80's isn't classified as a WMD? Interesting.

oops my bad, I stand corrected

- they did with supplies from their former friends

Yeah, and the US President, Democrat FDR armed Stalin to the teeth and was the direct cause of the spread of Communism around the world which has resulted in the deaths of over 100 million verifiable deaths and over 1 billion lives deprived of basic freedoms. Backing the side fighting against the people who were responsible for Nov 4,1979 and the 444 days which followed pales in comparison.

The allied forces hunt for WMDs' in Iraq and all the publicity bring to mind the hunt for men in black here in Thailand. Many testify that they exist and they have seen them, but they are slippery devils and almost impossible to find.

Printing loony anti-Western propaganda from Iranian websites does not exactly convince anyone that any of your conspiracy theories contain even a grain of truth.

OK, this page has the same 'theories'.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_support_for_Iraq_during_the_Iran%E2%80%93Iraq_war#Index_of_American_companies

United States support for Iraq during the IranIraq war

Saddam Hussein donated large sums to various institutions in his campaign to curry favour with the United States. He was made an honorary citizen of Detroit in 1980.^[1][2]

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Jump to: navigation, search "Iraqgate" redirects here. For other uses, see Iraqgate (disambiguation).

George Bush, operating largely behind the scenes throughout the 1980s, initiated and supported much of the financing, intelligence, and military help that built Saddam's Iraq into" the power it became",^[5] and "Reagan/Bush administrations permittedand frequently encouragedthe flow of money, agricultural credits, dual-use technology, chemicals, and weapons to Iraq."^[6]

^{1 U.S. foreknowledge and reaction to the conflict}

^{2 Support}

• ^{2.1 Military training}
• ^{2.2 Foreign Materiel Acquisition and Bear Spares}
• ^{2.3 Chemical and Biological exports}
• ^{2.4 Diplomatic support}

^{3 Parties involved}

• ^{3.1 Sarkis Soghanalian}
• ^{3.2 Banca Nazionale del Lavoro}
• ^{3.3 Index of American companies}

^{4 Energy development and security}

• ^{4.1 Aqaba pipeline project}
• ^{4.2 Tanker War and U.S. military involvement}
  • ^{4.2.1 The USS Stark incident}
  • ^{4.2.2 The USS Vincennes incident}

Not the same at all. Who do you think you are kidding?

Sorry, but they had their own biological weapons program and plenty of WMDs.

Iraq and weapons of mass destruction

During the Presidency of Saddam Hussein, the nation of Iraq used, possessed, and made efforts to acquire weapons of mass destruction (WMD). Hussein was internationally known for his use of chemical weapons in the 1980s against Kurdish civilians during and after the Iran–Iraq War. It is also known that in the 1980s he pursued an extensive biological weapons program and a nuclear weapons program.

After the 1990-1991 Persian Gulf War, the United Nations located and destroyed large quantities of Iraqi WMD and related equipment and materials throughout the early 1990s, with varying degrees of Iraqi cooperation and obstruction

http://en.wikipedia....ass_destruction

Printing loony anti-Western propaganda from Iranian websites does not exactly convince anyone that any of your conspiracy theories contain even a grain of truth.

OK, this page has the same 'theories'.

http://en.wikipedia....rican_companies

United States support for Iraq during the Iran–Iraq war

Saddam Hussein donated large sums to various institutions in his campaign to curry favour with the United States. He was made an honorary citizen of Detroit in 1980.^[1][2]

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Jump to: navigation, search "Iraqgate" redirects here. For other uses, see Iraqgate (disambiguation).

George Bush, operating largely behind the scenes throughout the 1980s, initiated and supported much of the financing, intelligence, and military help that built Saddam's Iraq into" the power it became",^[5] and "Reagan/Bush administrations permitted—and frequently encouraged—the flow of money, agricultural credits, dual-use technology, chemicals, and weapons to Iraq."^[6]

^{1 U.S. foreknowledge and reaction to the conflict}

^{2 Support}

• ^{2.1 Military training}
• ^{2.2 Foreign Materiel Acquisition and Bear Spares}
• ^{2.3 Chemical and Biological exports}
• ^{2.4 Diplomatic support}

^{3 Parties involved}

• ^{3.1 Sarkis Soghanalian}
• ^{3.2 Banca Nazionale del Lavoro}
• ^{3.3 Index of American companies}

^{4 Energy development and security}

• ^{4.1 Aqaba pipeline project}
• ^{4.2 Tanker War and U.S. military involvement}
  • ^{4.2.1 The USS Stark incident}
  • ^{4.2.2 The USS Vincennes incident}

so in summary, Iraq had their own biological weapons program, and plenty of WMDs,..

and quite possibly funding and supply for some of the above from USA........

Further explained here: http://www.counterpunch.org/boles1010.html

"Possibly", but the U.S. certainly did not expect them to use weapons on their own people. They were at war with Iran.

Back to the topic at hand...

What do you think is behind the reports that the Saudis are giving the go ahead and the UAE gives their approval? Is this supposed to make it more acceptable when the inevitable happens and Israel launches an operation against Iran?

They might be stupid enough to think of it but I am not sure they are willing to take the risk of an all out war in that area. Iran won't be throwing rocks......

Back to the topic at hand...

What do you think is behind the reports that the Saudis are giving the go ahead and the UAE gives their approval? Is this supposed to make it more acceptable when the inevitable happens and Israel launches an operation against Iran?

Stirrings of a New Push for Military Option on Iran July 12, 2010

Washington - "From a marketing point of view, you don't introduce new products in August," explained then-White House Chief of Staff Andrew Card back in September 2002, in answer to queries about why the administration of George W. Bush had not launched its campaign to rally public opinion behind invading Iraq earlier in the summer.

And while it's only July - and less than a month after the U.N., the European Union (EU) and the U.S. Congress approved new economic sanctions against Iran - a familiar clutch of Iraq war hawks appear to be preparing the ground for a major new campaign to rally public opinion behind military action against the Islamic Republic.

Barring an unexpected breakthrough on the diplomatic front, that campaign, like the one eight years ago, is likely to move into high gear this autumn, beginning shortly after the Labour Day holiday, Sep. 6, that marks the end of summer vacation.

By the following week, the November mid-term election campaign will be in full swing, and Republican candidates are expected to make the charge that Democrats and President Barack Obama are "soft on Iran" their top foreign policy issue.

"It's now increasingly clear that the credible threat of a military strike against Iran's nuclear program is the only action that could convince the regime to curtail its ambition," wrote the two men, who direct the Foreign Policy Initiative (FPI), the successor organisation of the neo- conservative-led Project for the New American Century (PNAC) that played a key role in preparing the ground for the Iraq invasion.

"Mr. Otaiba's ...comments leave no doubt what he and most Arab officials think about the prospect of a nuclear revolutionary Shiite state," the Wall Street Journal's editorial board, a major media champion of the Iraq War, opined. "They desperately want someone, and that means the U.S. or Israel, to stop it, using force if need be."

Otaiba was interviewed at the conference by The Atlantic's Jeffrey Goldberg, an influential U.S.-Israeli writer who in a widely noted essay published by The New Yorker magazine in 2002 claimed that Hussein was supporting an al Qaeda group in Kurdistan and that the Iraqi leader would soon possess nuclear weapons.

Goldberg, who asserted in his blog this week that "the idea of a group of Persian Shi'ites having possession of a nuclear bomb ...certainly scares [Arab leaders] more than the reality of the Jewish bomb," is reportedly working on an essay on the necessity of attacking Iran's nuclear facilities for publication by The Atlantic in September.

----------------------------

Population of Iran: 71,956,322 people in Iran under sanctions unless revolution and likely surrender to 'Allied' (corporate) forces. This will backfire.. just like Iraq, and Afghanistan. Federal debt will spiral, tax dollars - already over 50% goes to maintain the American empire....overseas. Retreat Retreat!

I only have one question about your vacation trips. Why Saudi Arabia??

lived there for quite a number of years, have a bunch of saudi friends, like the country, love the life style (even though pork chops, bavarian weisswurst, pata negra ham, Portwine and Sherry are only available at a premium and with great difficulties). unfortunately even with the best connections it is impossible for me to get a retiree residence permit.

p.s. wikipedia and/or any media are irrelevant concerning information on saudi defence hardware. anybody who has the slightest idea about the country should know that. even people who work for Raytheon or Oerlikon-Bührle don't have an insight except the job they are doing.

I agree with naam regarding Jeddah, it's the nicest place that I've been in the ME and that includes Abu Dhabi, Doha and Manama...man, what the place would be like if it wasn't a wahabbist shithole...bedouin arab folks are very friendly and polite...I lived there for almost 3 years and forgot about pork as the local cuisine is excellent; you gotta have a local falafel sandwich to say that you have lived...

with regard to the defence industry and foreign contractors I don't know much; I'm a power and desalination man so it's a whole different world...I wouldn't mind returning except for the immigration requirements, I'm too old to mess about with that bullshit anymore...and the money isn't as good as it useta be...

CENTRAL INTELLIGENCE AND DEFENSE INTELLIGENCE AGENCIES

The U.S. capability to make a mess of Iran’s nuclear infrastructure is formidable says veteran Mideast analyst Geoffrey Kemp. The question is, what then? NEWSWEEK has learned that the CIA and DIA have war-gamed the likely consequences of a U.S. pre-emptive strike on Iran’s nuclear facilities. No one liked the outcome. As an Air Force source tells it, The war games were unsuccessful at preventing the conflict from escalating.