Big Trouble ? With Reiirement Visa In Chiang Mai

[Pacificperson]

The dishonest ones will prey when they see vulnerabilities. I think that somehow he sensed that you could be had.

He seems to have set you up on the first visit. You no longer have a valid retirement visit, but he converted you to an "extension of stay" which gives you 30 days. Now you need his "help" to get a new Non-Immigrant ‘O’ Visa. The question is how to best deal with the potential problem.

Is there any way to get your case transferred to an honest immigration officer? If your folder is locked in his desk then this would be difficult. I would guess that the others in the office who are honest would help you if there was a way to do so without crossing your current officer. Otherwise the internal office problems caused by crossing him would likely outweigh any gain in Karma they would get from helping you.

If you will have to continue to deal with the first officer, then you might try bringing in a “translator” someone who projects the image of an upper class Thai of some possible importance. This might throw enough questions into the immigration officer’s mind that he would play it straight with you.

It sounds like you may have a leach trying to feed. I think that others may have better suggestions as to the best way to deal with him. Best of luck and let us know the outcome.

[sarahsbloke]

Is there any way to get your case transferred to an honest immigration officer? If your folder is locked in his desk then this would be difficult. I would guess that the others in the office who are honest would help you if there was a way to do so without crossing your current officer. Otherwise the internal office problems caused by crossing him would likely outweigh any gain in Karma they would get from helping you.

I have a suggestion to do just this.

Go back straight away and apply for a 'extension due to marriage'

These are all dealt with by ladies at CM office (so this guy won't get a look in)

They are all decided on by the office in Bangkok, CM immigration only fills in the forms.

The application costs 1900bht (which it seems you will have to pay for another extension anyway)

You will get an 'under consideration for 30 day' stamp in your passport while Bangkok process the application.

[JimGant]

I am going in for an extension of stay next week and will have the old and new passport (new one has the new visa).

Your new passport actually has a "new" visa -- why?

Whoops, disregard. Had not seen Lop's post.

Edited July 22, 2010 by JimGant

[Alwaysright]

I am wondering if the issue is that you hadn't transferred the old visa/permission to stay into your new passport.

I had the old and applied for the retirement extension at the same time in Bangkok.No problem,took about 20 minutes longer.Did it last year,sounds like you are being ripped off.*I would not except their answers and demand they call Bangkok.When you are right,you are right.

P/S anytime they are wrong and give me a hard time(very rare) I leave smiling. :D :D

[tigermonkey]

Is there any way to get your case transferred to an honest immigration officer? If your folder is locked in his desk then this would be difficult. I would guess that the others in the office who are honest would help you if there was a way to do so without crossing your current officer. Otherwise the internal office problems caused by crossing him would likely outweigh any gain in Karma they would get from helping you.

I have a suggestion to do just this.

Go back straight away and apply for a 'extension due to marriage'

These are all dealt with by ladies at CM office (so this guy won't get a look in)

They are all decided on by the office in Bangkok, CM immigration only fills in the forms.

The application costs 1900bht (which it seems you will have to pay for another extension anyway)

You will get an 'under consideration for 30 day' stamp in your passport while Bangkok process the application.

I already have a completed application for Change of Visa ( the 2000 baht fee ) completed, paid, signed and dated 29 July, which is probably sitting in his desk.

I do however like the idea of a 'translator' which was given by Pacificperson ( thank you ) -- Perhaps I will approach someone from the Canadian Consul in Chiang Mai to 'translate' for me -- I believe there are at least two people there with dual Thai and Canadian citizenship.

I will advise of the outcome

Edited July 22, 2010 by tigermonkey

[JimGant]

TM, my apologies for all the inconvenience you're experiencing. However, this really is a fascinating mystery, involving an Immigration Office that has always seemed above-board.

Out of curiosity, have you traveled on that new passport? (Which, of course, you would have if you had renewed back in Canada.)

Assuming "yes," above, then:

I was shocked when I was told I could only be issued an extension of stay ( 30 days for 1900 baht), because I was too close to the expiry date on my [last permission of stay]..

That makes sense if you entered on your new passport,forgot to point out the valid permission of stay and re-entry stamp in your expired passport, and got a 30-day visa exempt permission of stay stamp (and trumping the old one-year stamp) -- but were well past the 21-days remaining that is normally required for conversion to a Non Imm visa. In fact, the offer for a 30-day extension was a real nice gesture, since this is usually only available for extending tourist visa entries, not visa exempt entries. However, the officer was doing you a favor (assuming, of course, your new passport *didn't* contain a tourist visa), knowing this was just a practical matter of adjusting the rules when everything else showed ok for conversion and subsequent retirement extension.

Anyway, I may be way off base here -- and something more sinister is going on. However, something about this happening on 20 July -- and your return date for conversion being [no later than?] 29 July, meaning you're at the 21-days remaining threshold needed for conversion (albeit now waived at some Immigration offices, but maybe not CNX....)

Question for Lop: You're home in Farangland, renew your passport, old passport is cancelled -- but still has valid permission of stay stamp and re-entry permit. Of course you haven't had a chance to transfer stamps to the new passport (assuming this is something not readily available at Thai consulates abroad). When you next enter Thailand, you of course present both passports to Immigration, with re-entry number from old passport as your visa number on landing card..... Any reported problems with this? Will Immigration at the airport transfer any stamps for you -- or will this have to wait until you can get to your local Immigration Office? Thanx.

[lopburi3]

There should not be any problem using two passports but suspect they will advise you to visit your local office to transfer rather than doing on entry (but have not seen any reports one way or another). On exit they seem to do the transfer to new passport.

[InterestedObserver]

Nowhere does the OP indicate that he entered Thailand with his new passport and received a 30 day visa exempt stamp in the new passport. If he has then that is an entirely different story altogether. IMO he would therefore be ineligible to transfer his retirement extension of stay into his new passport.

[JimGant]

Nowhere does the OP indicate that he entered Thailand with his new passport and received a 30 day visa exempt stamp in the new passport.

Right. But he didn't say where he renewed his passport. If in Canada, well then, he did re-enter Thailand on his new passport, as his old one would have been canceled. And if he hadn't presented his old passport -- and had his re-entry permit number as his visa number on the landing card -- then we have a plausible explanation as to what's going on.....

If he has then that is an entirely different story altogether. IMO he would therefore be ineligible to transfer his retirement extension of stay into his new passport.

Right again. As said, the 30-day stamp would have trumped any validity left in the one-year stamp in the canceled passport. But Immigration in CNX, nice fellas that I've found them to be, could be leaning over backwards to get back on track towards TM's latest, albeit sidetracked, retirement extension.

Slow day, so this mystery has been interesting to ponder. But, I'm just hoping CNX comes out shining, not tarnished, on this event....

[tigermonkey]

Nowhere does the OP indicate that he entered Thailand with his new passport and received a 30 day visa exempt stamp in the new passport.

Right. But he didn't say where he renewed his passport. If in Canada, well then, he did re-enter Thailand on his new passport, as his old one would have been canceled. And if he hadn't presented his old passport -- and had his re-entry permit number as his visa number on the landing card -- then we have a plausible explanation as to what's going on.....

If he has then that is an entirely different story altogether. IMO he would therefore be ineligible to transfer his retirement extension of stay into his new passport.

Right again. As said, the 30-day stamp would have trumped any validity left in the one-year stamp in the canceled passport. But Immigration in CNX, nice fellas that I've found them to be, could be leaning over backwards to get back on track towards TM's latest, albeit sidetracked, retirement extension.

Slow day, so this mystery has been interesting to ponder. But, I'm just hoping CNX comes out shining, not tarnished, on this event....

The new passport was received by me by courier from Bangkok three days before I attended the CM Immigration office . I had no stamps / entries before I went to the immigration office.

I am not concerned about the process that they are following to get me my new retirement extension, although I found that the process seemed highly unusual. I have always felt that this office knew what they were doing , and did it with efficiency and courtesy.

I am very much concerned about the statement made to my wife, which leaves her totally convinced that they want money from us. Up until that point, I was merely puzzled by the process, and some of the things which were said --- such as the question " How much money do you have ? ( in your wallet ) "

I am hoping that this is all a misunderstanding, fuelled by a generous dose of paranoia.

[JimGant]

Well, so much for my theory. I don't know if I'm now routing for CNX to be incompetent -- or corrupt.....

TM, out of curiosity, when will your last one-year extension expire? And, you imply, you've done these retirement extensions for several years -- so your original Non Imm visa expired several years ago, correct?

[harrry]

If the OP had a visa seveal years ago he was grandfathered and his money requirement would be less than today. If he has to get a new visa it is possible that the income or bank requirement is higher now...ie 60,000 a month or 800000baht.

[lopburi3]

The money amount has not changed for more than a decade and the current amount is 65k per month or 800k in account.

[tigermonkey]

Well, so much for my theory. I don't know if I'm now routing for CNX to be incompetent -- or corrupt.....

TM, out of curiosity, when will your last one-year extension expire? And, you imply, you've done these retirement extensions for several years -- so your original Non Imm visa expired several years ago, correct?

Actually not several years --- my original Non Imm Visa expired August, 2008 --- then retirement extension expiring in August, 2009 -- and my latest retirement extension expired July 23, 2010 -- all in my old passport which was to expire November, 2010, but was entirely full - not even space for a small stamp on any page

[lopburi3]

How did the retirement extension of stay date change from August to July? That should never happen if consecutive extensions of stay are being obtained - the expiration is exactly one year later (regardless of the date you apply).

[JimGant]

Ah, more mystery......

Perhaps he re-entered Thailand in June -- without a re-entry permit -- thus getting a 30-day stamp, and thereby requiring a new Non Imm visa to start the retirement extension drill from scratch?

[tigermonkey]

How did the retirement extension of stay date change from August to July? That should never happen if consecutive extensions of stay are being obtained - the expiration is exactly one year later (regardless of the date you apply).

I have no idea about these dates -- I merely follow what the Immigration office gives to me -- in my old passport, I have one with an expiry date of 23 August 2009 --- then another stamp dated 11 August 2009, showing an expiry of 23 August 2010. This entry has "CANCELLED" stamped across it and they asked me to sign at the bottom of the entry - then a new stamp, again dated 11 August, 2009 with an expiry date of 23 July, 2010. At the bottom are two more small stamps in Thai showing that the date was changed and shows both dates ( 23 August and 23 July ) -- stamp is below the 'Rentry Permit' reminder stamp -- roughly translated " permit for 23 August 2010 was affixed -- permit for 23 July 2010 is now affixed and granted for passport"

Edited July 25, 2010 by tigermonkey

[lopburi3]

Your old 23 August 2009 is on a one year extension of stay from Immigration or was it a visa expiration date? What was the 90 day stay permitted to stay expiration date used to start your one year extensions of stay? It appears that immigration found and corrected a mistake last year.

[tigermonkey]

Your old 23 August 2009 is on a one year extension of stay from Immigration or was it a visa expiration date? What was the 90 day stay permitted to stay expiration date used to start your one year extensions of stay? It appears that immigration found and corrected a mistake last year.

23 August, 2009 expiry is a one year retirement extension, issued 24 July, 2008 --- prior to that was 90 day ( ? ) Non-O dated 26 June to 24 August, 2008

[lopburi3]

That sounds right. Last year does not and appears the officer was under the impression the extension of stay should start on application rather than extend from your permitted to stay time which is the proper method.

[tigermonkey]

That sounds right. Last year does not and appears the officer was under the impression the extension of stay should start on application rather than extend from your permitted to stay time which is the proper method.

Mnay things I do not understand -- but as my wife says " This is Thailand " -- last year I believe they had it right , then cancelled and reissued for a year less 6 weeks -- not to expiry date or application date !

...and my original Non-O is only for 60 days, not 90 days

I only want this years adventure to end quickly and agreeably.

[Mario2008]

It would be easier if you scan the relevant stamps in your passport and post it.

[imaneggspurt]

So if the wife had said she didnt want him here they would refuse the visa ?..bizarre

[lopburi3]

If you had a 60 day entry it was not a non immigrant O visa entry (or it was a mistake). That is a tourist visa entry. Did you also have to change with both a 2,000 baht and 1,900 baht fee that year to get the one year extension of stay. Either a scan of all applicable passport stamps or a line list of each with full information might solve this mystery but from the information provided so far 2 + 2 is not equal to 4.

[harrry]

It would be good ifte OP could post how he got on yesterday.

[tigermonkey]

It would be good ifte OP could post how he got on yesterday.

I was just writing my post when you posted -- thanks for your interest.

I arrived at Chiang Mai Immigration for my 'appointment' yesterday -- they have reorganized / renovated the office in the 9 days since I was there. The counter is gone, the desks are arranged in somewhat of a semi-circle, and it is all now one big room -- seems a little chaotic, but seems to be working fine. By the way, theThai guy with the queue numbers is now in the back corner of the room , behind the waiting area.

I explained why I was there and was given a number -- while waiting, I observed that the immigration officer that I dealt with last week -- he is now sitting at a desk by himself, in front of the Inspector's office. -- he was not seeing any farang, and was merely sitting there , reading documents and passports, and occasionally stamping something. It seems he has been reassigend / promoted in typical Thai fashion ( my speculation only)

Shortly my number was called and I met with a new ( to me ) Immigration officer -- a woman -- she pulled my file from a stack of about 10 stapled files -- read through it -- stamped my passport with a 90 day Non O Visa, took it in to the Inspector for a couple of minutes, and then asked me to come back after 60 days for my Retirement extension. She was very pleasant, courteous and efficient.

I politely asked why we were going through the route of a new Non O and new Retirement extension. She smiled and said -- we can only go forward, we can not go backward. I took this to mean that they must continue the path to which they have already commited.

My translator did not get the chance to say anything and was not needed.

I have my own conclusions / opinion about all that has happened -- I will allow others to have their own opinion.

I can only state that I am very happy ( and so is my wife) that all seems to be now on course -- and I continue my faith and confidence in Thai Immigration Chiang Mai.

Edited July 30, 2010 by tigermonkey

[Tod Daniels]

Well, at least it seems the O/P is back on the path to getting this resolved, and his quest for a year long extension of stay based on retirement seems to be coming to fruition, albeit slowly .

So now you have a 90 Day Single Entry Type-O visa and, like the Immigrations Officer told you; when there's about a month left on it, you return to Immigrations, pay the 1900 baht fee and receive a yearly extension of stay based on retirement.

While the last thing I wanna do is further muddy the proverbial waters ; one thing NOT to forget is; IF you hafta leave the country between now and when you return to Immigrations in another two months, get a re-entry permit!

Also realize; if you do purchase a re-entry permit BEFORE you get your yearly extension of stay, the re-entry permit will expire the same time your current 90 day Non-O visa will. Re-entry permits are tied to your current ‘permitted to stay until’ stamp.

In other words, if you don't need to leave the country before you go to Immigrations in two more months, don't purchase a re-entry permit. Perhaps AFTER you get your yearly extension of stay it might be a good idea to get one, especially given your saga in dealing with them . Even a single re-entry purchased after your yearly extension will be good during the whole year your extension’s good for.

The only reason I'm mentioning re-entry permits are; you certainly had to jump thru some proverbial hoops to get things back on track, and you don't need to derail things at this stage in the process.

I know an 'acquaintance' who did virtually the same thing at Changwattana here in Bangkok, not too long ago. He went from a 60 day tourist visa to a Single Entry 90 Day Non-Immigrant Type-O, and was told by Immigrations, to return to Changwattana when there were 30 days remaining and to apply for his yearly extension of stay.

What he neglected to tell me was; he planned on traveling outta the country during the interim. As he didn't bother to purchase a re-entry permit when we were at Changwattana; his 90 day single entry Non-O was canceled when he exited the country. So when he arrived back here in the glorious "Land 'O Thais" he came in 'visa-less' . .. He got the 30 day visa exempt stamp on arrival which compelled him to start the frickin' process all over.

Although FWIW: when I accompanied him out to Changwattana again; they simply did the 2000 baht Non-O and the 1900 baht yearly extension in one felled swoop. He also got a re-entry permit at that time.

It's sometimes a crap shoot on if they'll do both steps right outta the gate or make it a ‘two step process’. I've yet to find a rhyme or reason for why some Immigrations Officers will do it all at once and some won't. Then again, I try to never look for logic where there is none to be found.

Let's hear from you in another 60 days and see if it all works out. Given what you've been thru I sincerely hope it does. ..

[Pacificperson]

Could it be that someone in the immigration department reads Thaivisa? Anyway, good luck.

[InterestedObserver]

Will the OP's pension letter from his embassy still be valid in another 60 days when he returns, yet again, to CM immigration for his official retirement extension? Something to consider.

[tigermonkey]

Will the OP's pension letter from his embassy still be valid in another 60 days when he returns, yet again, to CM immigration for his official retirement extension? Something to consider.

I was already thinking about this -- I asked the Immigration officer yesterday -- I got two original copies of the letter from the Consulate -- she looked at the letter and said it was fine for 60 days from now -- but another Immgration officer might have a a differing opinion. The Canada Consulate will give me another copy of the same letter with a fresh date if I need it at no extra charge -- I should probably take them up on their offer. There is no point in taking chances..