The New Skytrain

[Lakegeneve]

7 minutes ago, Chou Anou said:

I can verify that as of my last visit (Jan 2017) this section was very much already under construction, and has been for several years; just from line of sight from street level, I'd estimate 80%(?) or more completed, but I'm no expert...

Appreciate the input, but you are geographically confused. This extension has not even been approved, let alone tendered!!

 

I'm assuming that what you saw during your last visit was, "4) BTS Dark Green line (Suk Line) Bearing to Paknam ext (MRTA): 12.6km, 7 stations (Opens in 2018 - civil works progress 98%)" which has been under construction since March 2012. You can refer to the above map and/or the website that is posted for this extension.

[blackcab]

1 hour ago, Lakegeneve said:

...whilst working out what to do with the Thonglor/Suk soi 38 section - which should probably go underground and then continue to Rama 4 where it could then run elevated until Lumpini/Sathon rd.

 

That wouldn't fit very well with Sansiri's purchase of land just a few meters into Soi 38. I'm sure they would prefer a walkway joining the skywalk to the station rather than people having to walk at street level and go up the existing escalator on Sukhumvit.

[Chou Anou]

please delete

Edited July 31, 2017 by Chou Anou

[Chou Anou]

42 minutes ago, Lakegeneve said:

Appreciate the input, but you are geographically confused. This extension has not even been approved, let alone tendered!!

 

I'm assuming that what you saw during your last visit was, "4) BTS Dark Green line (Suk Line) Bearing to Paknam ext (MRTA): 12.6km, 7 stations (Opens in 2018 - civil works progress 98%)" which has been under construction since March 2012. You can refer to the above map and/or the website that is posted for this extension.

Nope, my girlfriend lives in Praeksaa and I spend a lot of time in the area and am quite familiar with Samut Prakan.  Construction is proceeding at quite a brisk pace, at least to Praeksaa Station (in front of the Robinson mall just past the Praeksaa Rd. intersection), and has been for several years now.  We often look longingly at Praeksaa station as we're heading to and from her place in a taxi, wondering just how "complete" it has to be before they start testing it, because it looks pretty darn complete to us!  I can't speak to the state of progress on the two(?) stations past Praeksaa, as I rarely go any further down the line than Robinson/Praeksaa Station.  But the track and all stations between Pak Nam Station and Praeksaa are looking great; ask anyone who lives in the area.

 

I'll be happy to post some geotagged photos upon my next visit, in December of this year.  I just tried to embed a link to Google Earth Street View (photo taken Nov. 2016) of Praeksaa Station, but ThaiVisa apparently does not allow embedding of this type of link.  So, if you go to Google Maps and do a search for "Robinson Lifestyle Center Samutprakan," then turn on street view, you can see it for yourself.

[Lakegeneve]

7 minutes ago, Chou Anou said:

Nope, my girlfriend lives in Praeksaa and I spend a lot of time in the area and am quite familiar with Samut Prakan.  Construction is proceeding at quite a brisk pace, at least to Praeksaa Station (in front of the Robinson mall just past the Praeksaa Rd. intersection), and has been for several years now.  We often look longingly at Praeksaa station as we're heading to and from her place in a taxi, wondering just how "complete" it has to be before they start testing it, because it looks pretty darn complete to us!  I can't speak to the state of progress on the two(?) stations past Praeksaa, as I rarely go any further down the line than Robinson/Praeksaa Station.  But the track and all stations between Pak Nam Station and Praeksaa are looking great; ask anyone who lives in the area.

 

I'll be happy to post some geotagged photos upon my next visit, in December of this year.  I just tried to embed a link to Google Earth Street View (photo taken Nov. 2016) of Praeksaa Station, but ThaiVisa apparently does not allow embedding of this type of link.  So, if you go to Google Maps and do a search for "Robinson Lifestyle Center Samutprakan," then turn on street view, you can see it for yourself.

With respect you are still confused with the two listings and I think I understand why, it is because you seemingly don't know the area further east of your gfs place. As you said, you rarely further down the line.

 

Next time you are in BKK do so and you'll see where the line ends and you'll be able to see where the future extension continues. You are seemingly just ignoring that fact that what you are describing is already listed in the Under Construction section at number #4. You could even take the time to go back a few years and read through the thread about this extension, https://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/406991-the-new-skytrain/?page=14

 

This current extension (again listed as #4) has been under construction since March 2012, as I mentioned. It is from Bearing to Kheha Samut Prakhan. It is a 12.6km extension with 9 stations, but only 7 stations are being built at this stage (E18 & E22 later). The section from Bearing to Samrong has already opened a few months ago. The section from Samrong to Kheha Samut Prakhan (which I write as Paknam ) should open by the end of the year. 

 

This current extension includes Phraek Sa station in front of Rosinson which is E21, the last station is E23. It is actually the 2nd last station as E22 is not being built currently.

 

If you had a look at the website (either in Thai or English) it would help you, http://en.mrta-greenline.net/?page_id=28. There are also plenty of pictures on the MRTA website., http://www.mrta-greenline.net/?page_id=7123

 

It is NOT the next extension of the line , from E24 to E27, listed as (#18) which you have confused it with as that extension will continue about 2kms east of your gfs place. 18) BTS Dark Green (Sukhumvit) line south from Paknam to Bang Pu: 4 stations (planned). Again, this future extension has not even been approved let alone tendered. That will run a further 7km down Sukhumvit rd past the Technical College and Boran (Ancient City).

 

I can't really explain is more clearly than this. It's a future extension of the same line approx 2kms further down (east) on Suk rd from you which hasn't even been approved yet! 

[Chou Anou]

54 minutes ago, Lakegeneve said:

With respect you are still confused with the two listings and I think I understand why, it is because you seemingly don't know the area further east of your gfs place. As you said, you rarely further down the line.

 

Next time you are in BKK do so and you'll see where the line ends and you'll be able to see where the future extension continues. You are seemingly just ignoring that fact that what you are describing is already listed in the Under Construction section at number #4. You could even take the time to go back a few years and read through the thread about this extension, https://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/406991-the-new-skytrain/?page=14

 

This current extension (again listed as #4) has been under construction since March 2012, as I mentioned. It is from Bearing to Kheha Samut Prakhan. It is a 12.6km extension with 9 stations, but only 7 stations are being built at this stage (E18 & E22 later). The section from Bearing to Samrong has already opened a few months ago. The section from Samrong to Kheha Samut Prakhan (which I write as Paknam ) should open by the end of the year. 

 

This current extension includes Phraek Sa station in front of Rosinson which is E21, the last station is E23. It is actually the 2nd last station as E22 is not being built currently.

 

If you had a look at the website (either in Thai or English) it would help you, http://en.mrta-greenline.net/?page_id=28. There are also plenty of pictures on the MRTA website., http://www.mrta-greenline.net/?page_id=7123

 

It is NOT the next extension of the line , from E24 to E27, listed as (#18) which you have confused it with as that extension will continue about 2kms east of your gfs place. 18) BTS Dark Green (Sukhumvit) line south from Paknam to Bang Pu: 4 stations (planned). Again, this future extension has not even been approved let alone tendered. That will run a further 7km down Sukhumvit rd past the Technical College and Boran (Ancient City).

 

I can't really explain is more clearly than this. It's a future extension of the same line approx 2kms further down (east) on Suk rd from you which hasn't even been approved yet! 

Okay, got it now.  What was throwing me off was the wording "Pak Nam" which I took as the terminal station, knowing that construction has extended far beyond Pak Nam station for years now.  I see now that "Pak Nam" refers to the entire line to Kheha, not simply to Pak Nam station.  Strange that they would use Pak Nam, which is tiny part of Samut Prakan (the provincial capital) to refer to a line that extends far beyond it to elsewhere in the province, but now I understand.  Thanks.

[zakk9]

Has BTS ordered material to extend the length of each train to the maximum 6 cars? Friends who live in the Udom Suk and On Nouch areas tell me that they have mostly given up on sky-train during rush hours, since it's very hard to get on a train at all. This will obviously only get worse when the extension opens and more condos etc. are built along the line as a result of the extension.

[Crossy]

6 minutes ago, zakk9 said:

Has BTS ordered material to extend the length of each train to the maximum 6 cars?

 

I think we can safely say they have not. The platforms on the extensions are configured for 4 car trains and the new train-sets are all 4 car. I seem to remember that the actual maximum is 5 car due to limitation on some of the existing stations.

 

Don't forget, it's not just ordering new cars, the PSDs need to be expanded and the signaling system re-configured, not a simple task (yes it really ought to be done during construction but the $$$ rules).

 

Traveling outside the peak is recommended if at all possible.

[zakk9]

21 minutes ago, Crossy said:

 

Traveling outside the peak is recommended if at all possible.

That's what I would do in Europe. Unfortunately, the idea of flexible working hours hasn't really caught on with Thai employers.

[Crossy]

1 hour ago, zakk9 said:

Unfortunately, the idea of flexible working hours hasn't really caught on with Thai employers.

 

Neither has the idea of remote working. Pretty well all of my clients want to see a bum on a seat in order to actually pay for work done. At least I get to choose (mostly) which office the seat is located in on a particular day.

 

As an independent (I hate the word freelancer, too many other, er, connotations) I do get to be flexible about just when I'm in the office, 6.30 to 15.30 suits me (I'm an early bird) and the boss gets to see me

[dantilley]

Thanks for the great update as usual @Lakegeneve. Was wondering if you know anything about the proposed ordering of 4-carriage trains for the Airport Link? And / or converting the old express trains' 4th carriages to be used for passengers rather than the now defunct luggage service?

 

[Lakegeneve]

On 8/1/2017 at 5:10 AM, zakk9 said:

Has BTS ordered material to extend the length of each train to the maximum 6 cars? Friends who live in the Udom Suk and On Nouch areas tell me that they have mostly given up on sky-train during rush hours, since it's very hard to get on a train at all. This will obviously only get worse when the extension opens and more condos etc. are built along the line as a result of the extension.

All BTS station platforms are designed for eventual 6 car use. (Crossy can disagree with me). They really should already be operating 5 car stock in my view given the pax loads. Especially, as Suk line operates at 2.40min headway during peak periods.

 

Last year in May the BTSC order the following for the new extension;

1) 24 CNR Changchun sets for the northern extension. These are due from mid 2018. (The same supplier of the 12, 4 car sets deliver late for the Silom line in 2010/2011 and the 2nd order of 5 , 4 car sets in 2013).

2) 22 Siemens Inspiro sets (to be made in Turkey) with delivery for 2018/19.

 

Note: not all of these 46 sets will be used as reportedly a few of each will be kept in reserve as spares for maintenance/ repair. 

 

According to the the BTS Group Chairman; "With these new trains will be able to operate Skytrain comfortably for the next 10 years," Mr Keeree Kanjanapas, chairman of BTS Group, says.

 

I doubt that. With expected pax growth they really should be converting to 5 car operations in around 3-5 years I would suggest. Perhaps, this will be done when the next round of BTS extensions are done?

[Lakegeneve]

On 7/31/2017 at 8:31 PM, Chou Anou said:

Okay, got it now.  What was throwing me off was the wording "Pak Nam" which I took as the terminal station, knowing that construction has extended far beyond Pak Nam station for years now.  I see now that "Pak Nam" refers to the entire line to Kheha, not simply to Pak Nam station.  Strange that they would use Pak Nam, which is tiny part of Samut Prakan (the provincial capital) to refer to a line that extends far beyond it to elsewhere in the province, but now I understand.  Thanks.

Actually, it is also partially my fault as I should have changed the name on my list by now.

 

Originally, this extension was called the Paknam extension as it was going to terminate just before the Srinakaringda rd intersection with a station there. However, it was changed, they reduced the number of stations - which is why there is a longer distance between E19 & E20  and reorientated each station location and changed a couple of stations names. (this has been done with every single BTS extension - WWY was reduced from 3 to 2 stations, Bearing ext from 6 to 5 etc.

 

You should be able to use the whole extension by the end of next year! 

[Lakegeneve]

On 8/1/2017 at 8:06 AM, dantilley said:

Thanks for the great update as usual @Lakegeneve. Was wondering if you know anything about the proposed ordering of 4-carriage trains for the Airport Link? And / or converting the old express trains' 4th carriages to be used for passengers rather than the now defunct luggage service?

 

Sorry Dantilley, I haven't checked in recent times since you last asked me. The SRT is a deep, dark vortex of confusion.

 

They should have ordered those 7 5 car sets by now but I don't believe that it has happened.....the express carriages have all been converted as far as I am aware.

[Lakegeneve]

On 7/31/2017 at 6:47 PM, blackcab said:

 

That wouldn't fit very well with Sansiri's purchase of land just a few meters into Soi 38. I'm sure they would prefer a walkway joining the skywalk to the station rather than people having to walk at street level and go up the existing escalator on Sukhumvit.

An underground station with easy access on soi 38 would just be a useful for Sansir residents no?

 

Some of the previous food stall owners could even set up shop in the station....555

[blackcab]

42 minutes ago, Lakegeneve said:

An underground station with easy access on soi 38 would just be a useful for Sansir residents no?

 

It would be good if the new station was designed in such a way that you could get from the new underground station to the existing Thong Lor station without getting wet!

 

That would be perfect.

[dantilley]

3 hours ago, Lakegeneve said:

.the express carriages have all been converted as far as I am aware.

This hasn't happened yet FYI. The express trains still have only 3 carriages that can take pax in them, with the 4th luggage carriage still unusable.

[Lakegeneve]

On 8/2/2017 at 7:19 PM, dantilley said:

This hasn't happened yet FYI. The express trains still have only 3 carriages that can take pax in them, with the 4th luggage carriage still unusable.

That is surprising as I remember reading in an SRT thread back in March that the 3rd set was about to start for conversion and then the 4th set would be done by mid year. So you are saying that none have been done at all?

 

However, I just checked some threads and there is a Manager article from 22 July where the SRTET CEO states that the conversion of all 4 sets won't be done until the end of the year. For whatever that statement is worth.

 

I'll ask a couple of people who should know and see if they can tell us the exact current status.

[Lakegeneve]

On 8/2/2017 at 5:10 PM, blackcab said:

 

It would be good if the new station was designed in such a way that you could get from the new underground station to the existing Thong Lor station without getting wet!

 

That would be perfect.

Ideally, in the future all new interchange stations should have internal (ticketside) connections between two lines especially with a common ticketing system coming sometime in the future.....

 

Pretty normal anywhere in the world. However, with the private concessionaire system that exists in Bangkok who can predict?

[Lakegeneve]

On 8/2/2017 at 3:53 PM, Lakegeneve said:

Sorry Dantilley, I haven't checked in recent times since you last asked me. The SRT is a deep, dark vortex of confusion.

 

They should have ordered those 7 5 car sets by now but I don't believe that it has happened.....the express carriages have all been converted as far as I am aware.

One thing that I forget to mention was that the SRTET back in Feb was considering the idea of ordering 12-15 single Disiro II cars from Siemens to just extend the current rolling stock to 5 car operations. Need to check on that too.

[MaxLee]

Station overcrowding is a high alert concern for the future of BTS,....

[dantilley]

19 hours ago, Lakegeneve said:

That is surprising as I remember reading in an SRT thread back in March that the 3rd set was about to start for conversion and then the 4th set would be done by mid year. So you are saying that none have been done at all?

 

However, I just checked some threads and there is a Manager article from 22 July where the SRTET CEO states that the conversion of all 4 sets won't be done until the end of the year. For whatever that statement is worth.

 

I'll ask a couple of people who should know and see if they can tell us the exact current status.

I've never seen a converted luggage carriage, no, although I guess it's possible that by chance I haven't been on a train yet in which it's been converted. Certainly it's true to say that most haven't been converted, and most likely all haven't.

 

What they have done is removed the seats and reconfigured a lot of the regular passenger carriages which is a great help.

[dantilley]

19 hours ago, Lakegeneve said:

One thing that I forget to mention was that the SRTET back in Feb was considering the idea of ordering 12-15 single Disiro II cars from Siemens to just extend the current rolling stock to 5 car operations. Need to check on that too.

Would be great if you could, thanks.

[Lakegeneve]

On 8/8/2017 at 11:54 AM, dantilley said:

I've never seen a converted luggage carriage, no, although I guess it's possible that by chance I haven't been on a train yet in which it's been converted. Certainly it's true to say that most haven't been converted, and most likely all haven't.

 

What they have done is removed the seats and reconfigured a lot of the regular passenger carriages which is a great help.

I think I understand my confusion as when I read about it earlier in the year in the Thai press, they were referring to the seats on the Express sets, not the baggage car. I misunderstood it as I thought it included both.

 

Anyway, have checked and the SRTET CEO has also made some recent comments, all of the rolling stock is being refurbished - along with the Express stock conversion. 

1 set has been completed, 1 is about to be done and apparently all 9 sets will be completed by Feb 2018. (I take that to mean April or May).

 

The new 7 sets fo 5 car rolling stock will be ordered by the end of the year. (They promise with fingers crossed!).

[Lakegeneve]

Since the Blue Line ext to Tao Poon opened pax numbers have jumped significantly - I've caught the train to TP a couple of times now and the extra numbers beyond Bang Sue were very noticeable.. Such that overcrowding at Tao Poon on the Blue line platform is immediately a problem.

 

Pic from this morning posted on the MRTA FB page,

[dantilley]

15 hours ago, Lakegeneve said:

I think I understand my confusion as when I read about it earlier in the year in the Thai press, they were referring to the seats on the Express sets, not the baggage car. I misunderstood it as I thought it included both.

 

Anyway, have checked and the SRTET CEO has also made some recent comments, all of the rolling stock is being refurbished - along with the Express stock conversion. 

1 set has been completed, 1 is about to be done and apparently all 9 sets will be completed by Feb 2018. (I take that to mean April or May).

 

The new 7 sets fo 5 car rolling stock will be ordered by the end of the year. (They promise with fingers crossed!).

Thanks, sounds quite positive!

[Lakegeneve]

On 8/16/2017 at 5:10 PM, Lakegeneve said:

Since the Blue Line ext to Tao Poon opened pax numbers have jumped significantly - I've caught the train to TP a couple of times now and the extra numbers beyond Bang Sue were very noticeable.. Such that overcrowding at Tao Poon on the Blue line platform is immediately a problem.

According to the The Manager and Khaosod papers the pax increase on the Purple line is 47%!!

From around 33K av. pax a day to 49K av. a day. One day peaked at just under 60K.

 

The Blue Line has also seen an obvious increase but no specific figure yet. 

[Lakegeneve]

On 7/31/2017 at 4:32 PM, Lakegeneve said:

 

C ) LINES CONTRACTED WITH CONSTRUCTION due to START in late 2017:
9) MRTA Pink Line (monorail): Khae Rai intersection to Miniburi via Pakred, Chaeng Wattana & Ram Inthra 36km, 30 stations. http://www.mrta.co.th/pinkline/index.html
10) MRTA Yellow Line (Monorail) Phase 1: 30.4km, 21 stations elevated. Latphrao to Hua Mark. (Note: was previously heavy rail underground) http://www.mrta-yellowline.com/

 

D) LINES/EXTS TO BE TENDERED IN 2017:

11) Purple Line ext south. Taopoon to WWY then to Ratburna: 23.6 km. 17 stations (12.6km 10 stations underground, 11km 7 stations elevated). Note: Approved for tender by Cabinet on 25 July. Video or route, looking at a 2024 opening if construction starts by mid 2018. https://www.facebook.com/MRTA.PR/videos/1875103962706329

12) Orange Line Phase 2, west section: From TCC to Bang Khun Non (Charan Sawitwong rd). 17.5km, 13 stations underground.
13) Blue Line west ext to Phutthamonthon sai 4: 7.8km, 4 stations elevated.

 

A few updates:

C)

9 & 10) The transfer of land for the Yellow and Pink lines from the MRTA to BSR Joint Venture is going to take longer than expected. Preliminary works are still ongoing, but full construction is not expected to begin until December 2017.

 

D)

11) Purple Line southern ext: The MRTA has announced that the tender will be delayed from next month until December. That shoudl still mean a mid 2018 construction start if no other delays.

12) Orange Line Phase 2 west section: The MRTA has been asked by Cabinet to look at private investment, perhaps a 50:50 PPP funding option. There will be a delay of 4 months while consultants evaluate various options.

13) The Blue line west ext: still expected to go to Cabinet in the next month or 2. Should be tendered by the end of the year assuming no delay.

[Lakegeneve]

I mentioned in the previous update that I would post a summary of new rolling stock orders;

 

A) BEM Blue Line (MRT) -

BEM finally placed an order with Siemens a few weeks ago for new rolling stock!!! Originally, they were going to order more stock in 2008 but had to defer due to debt restructuring issues so it has been a long wait! BEM has ordered 35 new 3 car sets which will be delivered in 3 stages ; 

1) 3 sets in late 2018,
2) 15 sets in early 2019,
3) 17 sets in late 2019.
(Note: BEM should be moving to 4 or 5 cars sets by now as expected pax after the extension are 750k-800k rising to 1m by 2022)

 

BTSC Dark Green (Suk) line  (BTS) -

1) The BTSC has ordered for 22 new 4 car sets from Siemens in May 2016 for the when the Samut Prakhan extension. These are being built in Turkey with expected deliveries in late 2018 & early 2019.

2) At the same time, the BTSC ordered 24 more 4 car sets of CRRC (Chinese) for the North ext to KuKot/Lam Lukka rd. These should be delivered in late 2018.

(Note: 4 sets will be kept for reserve/repairs etc)

 

C) BEM Pink and Yellow line (MRT) monorail orders -

1) Pink Line: BEM has ordered 42 Bombardier Innovia Monorail 300 sets  (4 cars)

2) Yellow Line: BEM has ordered 30 sets (4 cars) of the same model.

 

D) SRT Dark and Light Red suburban lines -

Hitachi has the contract to supply rolling stock by 2020. However, the exact number of sets is unclear.

 

E) SRTET Airport Line (ARL) -

1) The order for 7 new 5 car sets is still pending. However, the SRT has promised to place it by the end of the year.

 

Summary:

That's a total of 81 heavy rail sets (3 & 4 cars) and 72 monorail sets (4 cars) on order!

[Lakegeneve]

On 7/31/2017 at 4:34 PM, Lakegeneve said:

 

The all important map, I'm only posting one for now. Credit to Archstudent.

 

The map again for those who are unclear on which line is which.....