Should Foreigners Pay Higher Prices?

[samjaidee]

If you dun like it, dun pay it.

If you dun like it....leave.

Ben Dover does not mind paying more for services.

Is that Hugh Janus's half Brother?

I think it's Phil McCavity's friend.

[Richard4849]

I've given up trying to explain the difference between race and nationality. Can't believe some people still don't get it.

[gopbi]

Hi, I tend to agree with the others.. If the venue is public-- or funded wholly on partially on public funds, then I can accept and agree with the concept of a locals (tax payer) rate and non-locals (non-tax payer rate) being applied.

That said, I can also recognize that for a variety or reasons there is a large® percentage of Thai nationals who do not actually pay any *income* taxes... AND at the same time one can make a credible argument that a non-Thai (i.e. a tourist) might actually 'pay' more in VAT taxes-- granted over a shorter period of time--via the spending on his/her hotel, meal and other discretionary purchases.

I would suspect that in many cases the total amount of VAT paid by these tourists would be of an amount higher than that of what the typical non-income tax paying Thai would have paid via his/her VAT-eligible purchases; when measured over the same time period..

So, speaking strictly from a revenue-producing model, I can see a valid argument that says a short-stay tourist might in fact be contributing more in total tax revenue via their tourist spending, than compared to a large® percentage of Thais and what their VAT-eligible spending equals..

But in the end, I do recognize that there are national issues in play here and that while the current Thai taxation and revenue model-- be that VAT, income, investment, etc. used here is not perhaps the best, the more equitable, the easiest to comply with nor enforce, it is their model.. and as such, as it is in many countries, when nationals go to use, visit or otherwise partake in services and facilities that are wholly or partially publicly funded, that there is a two-tier system-- and that these systems do not necessarily delve into the intricacies and mathematical analysis of who actually 'pays' more or less in taxes and therefore who should or should not be entitled to the lower-tier entry pricing level.

Edited June 12, 2011 by gopbi

[jdinasia]

if it were race-based, I as a farang with a Thai ID card would not be getting the Thai price. I do -- no questions asked. As do other foreigners who can present a DL or work permit, in almost all cases.

It is nationality-based, nit race-based.

I have a Thai driver's license. There are several places I have never been allowed into at the Thai price.

So the best you can say is that "in some places it is nationality based". In others, it is race based. And to a large degree it depends on the person taking your money to make the decision.

You are are being intentionally blind if you think otherwise.

BTW, basing something on nationality is still discrimination. Residency, no problem. Residents pay taxes and are likely to be returning guests. We've all had this discussion before. There are valid business reasons for that. But a nationality based fee is just as discriminatory as a race based fee.

Richard noted that the DL only works "in almost all cases" --- my WP has never failed at a publicly funded place.

"But a nationality based fee is just as discriminatory as a race based fee." is only correct in the broadest sense of the word discriminatory. Thai nationals regardless of race have access to some places funded by public funds that foreigners don't. Private businesses imho that practice 2 tier pricing should be shunned. Yes that means in the broadest sense of the word I suggest discriminating against private businesses engaged in 2-tier pricing.

[Tanaka]

Let's face it: this double pricing is pure and simple racism or xenophobia. It's wrong. Period.

It is is no way racist. Period !!

If it was racist, Farangs with Thai Driving Licences would still get charged the Tourist price.

TVVS ( ThaiVisaVictimsSociety) stupidity.

Well, a couple of years ago, you had no problem paying a lower price to enter a park, if you had a Thai DL. This year it seems to have changed. I have been told at several venues that my Thai DL does not exclude me from paying tourist price. So I don't go now. And yes, it is racist now as you define it.

[uptheos]

When encountering dual pricing I 'graab' and kiss the feet, wai with my hands held in the highest respectful position, flash my Thai nationality registration, yellow book, SCB, KSB, Bkk B and Krung Thai cards + passbooks, show my passport with a zillion years visa stamp and all Thai drivers licences, marriage certificate, car registration books and explain it all in fluent Thai.

Usually it works.

[jdinasia]

Let's face it: this double pricing is pure and simple racism or xenophobia. It's wrong. Period.

It is is no way racist. Period !!

If it was racist, Farangs with Thai Driving Licences would still get charged the Tourist price.

TVVS ( ThaiVisaVictimsSociety) stupidity.

Well, a couple of years ago, you had no problem paying a lower price to enter a park, if you had a Thai DL. This year it seems to have changed. I have been told at several venues that my Thai DL does not exclude me from paying tourist price. So I don't go now. And yes, it is racist now as you define it.

Hasn't changed for me --- but if they tighten up on the DL thing it still won't make it racist. A DL does not make you a taxpayer or a Thai, it makes you a legal driver. A WP or taxpayer id card means you are a taxpayer, and a social security card means you are ... nothing else does. My DL has been enough to get me in everywhere at the local rate all but a time or two but when I go to a park I always make sure to have my WP with me ... just in case. Again, I won't pay extra to go to a privately owned business that tries to do this.

[bermondburi]

Did you take a poll?

Give me 1 other reason.

durian

[kropotkin]

Did you take a poll?

Give me 1 other reason.

durian

i doubt between:

1. i humbly bow my head for your wisdom - and guess what: i live in Chanthaburi, our house is in a rambutan / durian orchard area

2. yes, durian is cheap here - proves my point again

[kropotkin]

Let's face it: this double pricing is pure and simple racism or xenophobia. It's wrong. Period.

It is is no way racist. Period !!

If it was racist, Farangs with Thai Driving Licences would still get charged the Tourist price.

TVVS ( ThaiVisaVictimsSociety) stupidity.

Well, a couple of years ago, you had no problem paying a lower price to enter a park, if you had a Thai DL. This year it seems to have changed. I have been told at several venues that my Thai DL does not exclude me from paying tourist price. So I don't go now. And yes, it is racist now as you define it.

Hasn't changed for me --- but if they tighten up on the DL thing it still won't make it racist. A DL does not make you a taxpayer or a Thai, it makes you a legal driver. A WP or taxpayer id card means you are a taxpayer, and a social security card means you are ... nothing else does. My DL has been enough to get me in everywhere at the local rate all but a time or two but when I go to a park I always make sure to have my WP with me ... just in case. Again, I won't pay extra to go to a privately owned business that tries to do this.

i have tried before to explain to you that VAT is tax...... I give up now - ok one more try: value added T A X

and the poor and rich thai do not pay income tax too - only the middle class does, all 7 of them.....

[jdinasia]

Hasn't changed for me --- but if they tighten up on the DL thing it still won't make it racist. A DL does not make you a taxpayer or a Thai, it makes you a legal driver. A WP or taxpayer id card means you are a taxpayer, and a social security card means you are ... nothing else does. My DL has been enough to get me in everywhere at the local rate all but a time or two but when I go to a park I always make sure to have my WP with me ... just in case. Again, I won't pay extra to go to a privately owned business that tries to do this.

i have tried before to explain to you that VAT is tax...... I give up now - ok one more try: value added T A X

and the poor and rich thai do not pay income tax too - only the middle class does, all 7 of them.....

all places tend to charge sales tax (VAT) that does not make you an income-tax payer, or a corporate tax payer .... I guess even though I am not Thai .. that I am one of the 7 -- and so are my BF, His mother, his sister, his brother-in-law, all 4 of his cousins and his grandmother Wow -- we make up for more than the entire middle-class tax base according to you All of the senior staff in my company are tax-payers. In fact I think only 4 employees are NOT tax payers (2 housekeepers and 2 assistant cooks).

If you are a tourist you can claim some of your VAT back. If you are a retiree you are still using things paid for by the Thai government and thus your VAT expenditures are justifiable without making the same considerations that are made for Thai tax-payers such as a reduced rate at National Parks. (Examples include roads, signage in English, police services including Tourist police ... etc)

Trying to compare Thailand to a developed EU nation with all its socialism is pretty silly. If you don't want to pay the extra fee to enter a National Park (note that funny word "National"!) then don't. You aren't required to pay that non-Thai user fee! (unless you choose to go there!)

BTW --- There is one place I can think of that Richard should be able to get in free and that I think I would have to pay the full rate for non-citizens. I am pretty sure (but not positive) that Wat Phra Kaew/Grand Palace in BKK does not grant free admission based upon being an income tax payer.

[kropotkin]

i am not a tourist

a traveller yes

not a tourist

do not insult me

you will vote for Palin?

not the monty python variety of course

and to learn to controll your anger towards europeans - right, a bunch of socialists - , you may perhaps try buddhism?

[Ulysses G.]

i am not a tourist

a traveller yes

not a tourist

That is what all the tourists say.

[kropotkin]

i am not a tourist

a traveller yes

not a tourist

That is what all the tourists say.

the average tourist does not know the word traveller.

ever heard of a sextraveller?

and do not change my posts please

quote all - or nothing

[jdinasia]

i am not a tourist

a traveller yes

not a tourist

do not insult me

you will vote for Palin?

not the monty python variety of course

and to learn to controll your anger towards europeans - right, a bunch of socialists - , you may perhaps try buddhism?

I have absolutely no animosity towards Europeans. I did not insult you. You are a tourist even if you prefer not to think of yourself that way. European nations have an exceedingly advanced rating on the democracy index --- and far more social welfare programs. It isn't right to compare Thailand with Europe. (or most other places) --- but simply put in my country it is not uncommon for non-residents to pay higher user fees than residents --- and when it comes to education it is not uncommon for international students to pay MUCH more than out-of-state students who in turn pay much more than state residents to access higher education that is funded by the state.

(Bringing religion into this IS insulting)

(There is some irony in you telling UG how to quote you )

[WebBangkok]

I get it for free, I never pay any price as that's not my style.

[kropotkin]

i am not a tourist

a traveller yes

not a tourist

do not insult me

you will vote for Palin?

not the monty python variety of course

and to learn to controll your anger towards europeans - right, a bunch of socialists - , you may perhaps try buddhism?

I have absolutely no animosity towards Europeans. I did not insult you. You are a tourist even if you prefer not to think of yourself that way. European nations have an exceedingly advanced rating on the democracy index --- and far more social welfare programs. It isn't right to compare Thailand with Europe. (or most other places) --- but simply put in my country it is not uncommon for non-residents to pay higher user fees than residents --- and when it comes to education it is not uncommon for international students to pay MUCH more than out-of-state students who in turn pay much more than state residents to access higher education that is funded by the state.

(Bringing religion into this IS insulting)

(There is some irony in you telling UG how to quote you )

about the quoting: i learned from the best

[jdinasia]

i am not a tourist

a traveller yes

not a tourist

do not insult me

you will vote for Palin?

not the monty python variety of course

and to learn to controll your anger towards europeans - right, a bunch of socialists - , you may perhaps try buddhism?

I have absolutely no animosity towards Europeans. I did not insult you. You are a tourist even if you prefer not to think of yourself that way. European nations have an exceedingly advanced rating on the democracy index --- and far more social welfare programs. It isn't right to compare Thailand with Europe. (or most other places) --- but simply put in my country it is not uncommon for non-residents to pay higher user fees than residents --- and when it comes to education it is not uncommon for international students to pay MUCH more than out-of-state students who in turn pay much more than state residents to access higher education that is funded by the state.

(Bringing religion into this IS insulting)

(There is some irony in you telling UG how to quote you )

about the quoting: i learned from the best

I asked you not to

1) write inside of the box quoting my text

2) add bold or underline my text to change emphasis.

I do prefer it when all of the text is quoted, but apparently that is not a rule. That UG left out the offensive part of your quote is a credit to him.

1. i like to pay tax - because i live in europe and my government gives me lots in return.

Someone on here once said this --- he should apply it to user-fees at National parks

[Ulysses G.]

I quoted the exact sentences that I was replying to and left out the other nonsense and will continue to do so.

Edited June 12, 2011 by Ulysses G.

[transam]

i am not a tourist

a traveller yes

not a tourist

That is what all the tourists say.

the average tourist does not know the word traveller.

ever heard of a sex traveller?

Yes, they're sex tourists.

They do travel around a bit.

Edited June 12, 2011 by transam

[Semper]

Should Foreigners Pay Higher Prices?

OP. I think this should be up to them / us.

Edited June 12, 2011 by Semper

[Hermes100]

The sad thing is that by having this policy the Thai government is simply confirming all rumours that it still very much is a third world, corrupt nation with such long way to go before it can be taken seriously.

And by doing this,some may say the message is" we do not really like you, but we still need your money"

A sad state of affairs.

[JurgenG]

Put is simple, everywhere in the world tourists are the target of scammers.

Thailand is not different.

What bother me is people who say "I've been living here for 10 years, I'm still the target of scammers"

You know how it goes, cheat me once, shame on you, cheat me twice, shame on me.

Why people are so proud to be dumb is beyond me ...

[gregb]

Let's face it: this double pricing is pure and simple racism or xenophobia. It's wrong. Period.

It is is no way racist. Period !!

If it was racist, Farangs with Thai Driving Licences would still get charged the Tourist price.

TVVS ( ThaiVisaVictimsSociety) stupidity.

Well, a couple of years ago, you had no problem paying a lower price to enter a park, if you had a Thai DL. This year it seems to have changed. I have been told at several venues that my Thai DL does not exclude me from paying tourist price. So I don't go now. And yes, it is racist now as you define it.

Hasn't changed for me --- but if they tighten up on the DL thing it still won't make it racist. A DL does not make you a taxpayer or a Thai, it makes you a legal driver. A WP or taxpayer id card means you are a taxpayer, and a social security card means you are ... nothing else does. My DL has been enough to get me in everywhere at the local rate all but a time or two but when I go to a park I always make sure to have my WP with me ... just in case. Again, I won't pay extra to go to a privately owned business that tries to do this.

Wait a minute JD...I have to call BS on this one. So you are saying someone that has lived here for 3 decades, and just retired after paying income taxes for 30 years should not be given the local price because he doesn't have a current work permit, but someone who has never paid a baht in taxes but just applied for a taxpayer ID card is somehow considered privileged? Seriously...you need to rethink your argument. Whether or not someone has a work permit says nothing about whether or not that individual has paid sufficient taxes. And since the majority of the tax base in Thailand comes from VAT, which is paid by all long stay residents, it shouldn't really matter whether you are paying income taxes anyway. That is a small portion of the total taxes.

No, seems to me anyone who is considered a long stay resident is entitled to the Thai price. That is how every other country in the world defines their terms. Trying to argue your current position is going to result in an inconsistency. Residency implies paying taxes, which includes both VAT and income taxes, and anyone with a 5 year driving license has clearly been in the country long enough to qualify as a resident.

[zazo69]

No they should not, do foriengers pay higher prices in your country?

[Richard4849]

There ARE some things that work in the other direction.

Some of the department stores offer 5% discounts to tourists.

Tourists can get back 7% VAT back on purchases at participating locations -- Thais cannot.

[manarak]

1-

I think any business leader is free to grant discounts to anybody as he sees fit.

2-

Everyone should pay as low a price as his negotiating skills allow.

End of story.

end of symplistic story.

business leaders free to charge more / less to jews, blacks, ...... yeah right

but yes - like you - i am all for the free market system, too bad though, that there is no such thing as a free market, in no country in the world

monopolies and oligopolies, only exceptionally free markets

the free market system works very well against discrimination if a capable police force is there to enforce the Law, i.e. the "establishment" should not be able to use unethical ways to drive other business out.

If that is the case, and if everybody else refuses to serve blacks, for example, any clever businessman would begin to serve blacks and make tons of money.

If there is discrimination, look for a reason why there are no alternatives. The root cause is usually another than the businesses apparently discriminating. Money is money and business is business.

[Chupup]

can we have a poll to close this thread.

Done to death in the past, no resolution is possible.

I supect the same TV members copy and paste their earlier thread responses.

What a great idea, i am up for that

[Hermes100]

I don't get on ThaiVisa much these days but a few days back there was a thread on tipping (do you and how much?) now this one on double pricing (ok or not?). I guess it must soon be time for "Farang, is it an insult or not?".

It just shows that no matter how much things change, things stay the same.

Double pricing happens to varying extents all over the world, if you don't like it or are not prepared to pay the price walk away.

Nobody forces you into these places.

Well, thats a cop out answer if I ever heard one. The world would never improve by such weak knee lame attitude's.Shall we just turn a blind eye to everything that is wrong because "it happens all over the world" (It does not by the way)

And because 'thing's just stay the same" ( wrong again, I have hope at least, thing's are improving)

Some people,like myself are not prepared to pay and neither to walk away ( and so far I have seen everything I wanted to see,including the taj-mahal, and all for free! Although I was once arrested and detained! well worth it!)

We should try to think a little better than this pathetic attitude and stand up for thing's we all know are plaining wrong. For, I should add, the benifit of all.

[jdinasia]

nged for me --- but if they tighten up on the DL thing it still won't make it racist. A DL does not make you a taxpayer or a Thai, it makes you a legal driver. A WP or taxpayer id card means you are a taxpayer, and a social security card means you are ... nothing else does. My DL has been enough to get me in everywhere at the local rate all but a time or two but when I go to a park I always make sure to have my WP with me ... just in case. Again, I won't pay extra to go to a privately owned business that tries to do this.

Wait a minute JD...I have to call BS on this one. So you are saying someone that has lived here for 3 decades, and just retired after paying income taxes for 30 years should not be given the local price because he doesn't have a current work permit, but someone who has never paid a baht in taxes but just applied for a taxpayer ID card is somehow considered privileged? Seriously...you need to rethink your argument. Whether or not someone has a work permit says nothing about whether or not that individual has paid sufficient taxes. And since the majority of the tax base in Thailand comes from VAT, which is paid by all long stay residents, it shouldn't really matter whether you are paying income taxes anyway. That is a small portion of the total taxes.

No, seems to me anyone who is considered a long stay resident is entitled to the Thai price. That is how every other country in the world defines their terms. Trying to argue your current position is going to result in an inconsistency. Residency implies paying taxes, which includes both VAT and income taxes, and anyone with a 5 year driving license has clearly been in the country long enough to qualify as a resident.

If you qualify for residency in Thailand (under Thai law) you'll get the local price. If you have maintained your social security after retiring (being here 30 years) you will also get the local rate. If you are a retiree ... you probably won't.

Is it always fair in every case? no --- pity.