Thailand's Democrats Seek Ban On Thaksin Party

[rubl]

As much as it pains me, I have to say for once I agree with the Thaksinistas here. The dems need to let this gov't implode under its own weight. Anything else will only increase i) Thaksin's appeal and ii) disharmony/strife/civil war.

"Appeasement - The term appeasement is commonly understood to refer to a diplomatic policy aimed at avoiding war by making concessions to another power.[1] It has been described as "...the policy of settling international quarrels by admitting and satisfying grievances through rational negotiation and compromise, thereby avoiding the resort to an armed conflict which would be expensive, bloody, and possibly dangerous."[2] It was used by European democracies in the 1930s who wished to avoid war with the dictatorships of Germany and Italy, bearing in mind the horrors of the First World War. The term is most often applied to the foreign policy of British Prime Minister Neville Chamberlain towards Nazi Germany between 1937 and 1939. His policies of avoiding war with Germany have been the subject of intense debate for seventy years among academics, politicians and diplomats. The historian's assessment of Chamberlain has ranged from condemnation for allowing Hitler to grow too strong, to the judgement that he had no alternative and acted in Britain's best interests. At the time, these concessions were widely seen as positive, and the Munich Pact among Germany, Great Britain, France and Italy prompted Chamberlain to announce that he had secured "peace for our time".[3]

The word "appeasement" has been used as a synonym for weakness and even cowardice since the 1930s, and it is still used in that sense today as a justification for firm, often armed, action in international relations."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeasement

Edited July 8, 2011 by rubl

[OzMick]

The real question is why didn't the Democrats launch these charges & investigation long ago before the election?

Doing it now only cause the the Reds to ban together and be stronger because all their whole group is about banning together to hate. At this point it is better to just let them fight between themselves.

But of course this is no surprise when a country votes to go back in time 5-years and once again allow Thaksin to try to run the country through a puppet. The colors will change but there is little doubt that their will be death and burning in the streets in the not to distant future .... and of course another coup.

Have you not considered that banning the PTP leadership will actually benefit the reds? At the moment they are struggling to get cabinet positions - with the leaders gone and while seeking replacement MPs in by-elections, they have a much stronger claim.

Personally I endorse this, because I believe most of the Red leadership are insufficiently competent to run a 2-hole outhouse, and it will give the voters a chance to appraise the idiots that they have elected.

[Ricardo]

His parents where shopkeepers far removed from the old and powerful elite. Look at the colleges they attended very far from the elite. Chinese Elite = born with a silver spoon in their mouth like the last PM. Thaksin made the poor feel like real people for the first time in their lives.Like or not they will never forget it.

Thaksin's father was a Chiang Mai MP, and from one of the richest Chinese-Thai business families in Chiang Mai, so it's simply wrong to say they weren't part of the elite. And Thaksin was educated at Montford College, now that's of the leading schools in Chiang Mai, even today !

But I agree that Thaksin raised the importance of the poor, probably his main & lasting legacy, apart from the billions of dollars.

Even you Thaksin-haters have to admit this is beyond arrogant. Pheua Thai wins a massive landslide victory, and the - quote - "Democrats" -unquote - want to have them banned?

Paraphrasing Bertolt Brecht, perhaps the Democrat party should just dissolve the Thai people, and elect another?

"a massive landslide victory" ?

With 53% of the seats, I have to agree that PTP are the majority-party, and entitled to form a government, unless dissolved by the E.C.

But with 44% of the vote, up from 39.6% (2007), this is neither massive support nor a landslide. Through trying to 'spin' the result, as more than it actually was, their supporters are perhaps 'trying too hard'.

Hub of indecisiveness

I'm not sure about that, but then again, possibly ?

[rotary]

And to think this party calls itself "Democrat." They have absolutely no grasp of the term.

They lost, Puea Thai won with a true voting mandate. Move on.

There should be a ban of Democrats...........In the USA anyway

[badmedicine]

"Appeasement - The term appeasement is commonly understood to refer to a diplomatic policy aimed at avoiding war by making concessions to another power.

Daft response. I wasn't talking about appeasement. I was talking about the fact that 16m Thais voted for this party. If you want to show them that they made a mistake, you'd better let those mistakes happen rather than patronise them with your superior judgement.

[badmedicine]

Have you not considered that banning the PTP leadership will actually benefit the reds? At the moment they are struggling to get cabinet positions - with the leaders gone and while seeking replacement MPs in by-elections, they have a much stronger claim. Personally I endorse this, because I believe most of the Red leadership are insufficiently competent to run a 2-hole outhouse, and it will give the voters a chance to appraise the idiots that they have elected.

Thank you. Exactly the point I was trying to make.

[DP25]

But with 44% of the vote, up from 39.6% (2007), this is neither massive support nor a landslide. Through trying to 'spin' the result, as more than it actually was, their supporters are perhaps 'trying too hard'.

Yup. And their small increase in percent WASN'T because they got more votes, they didn't, it was because millions fewer people voted.

[whybother]

This action, IF it is successful, won't get the Democrats into government.

It's NOT 2008.

The PTP have a majority of seats and don't have large factions that are going to change sides.

Only the executives will be banned. Some by-elections will need to take place, which new-PTP will no doubt win.

Yingluck will still be PM. The new-PTP will still have a majority and will still have the support of their coalition partners.

Nothing will change.

Maybe, IF this is the ONLY action taken. I would not be surprised if before the end of the year every action is taken to remove Thaksin from power for good, even if it means turmoil in the streets again. I really believe the vast majority of Thais and politicians would be willing to accept any party victory as long as Thaksin was not involved. Just as I believe there are a great number of these same people who are willing to see a significant crisis now, in order to rid Thailand of Thaksin once and for all in order to truly move Thailand and all its people forward.

It seems that a vast majority of Thais are willing to accept a party as long as Thaksin IS involved.

But, maybe, if PTP are banned, their replacement party will learn to win without breaking the law.

[webfact]

Chamlong seeks to nullify Sunday's vote

People's Alliance for Democracy leader Chamlong Srimuang on Friday petitioned for the Constitution Court to intervene and nullify the Sunday's vote.

Chamlong lodged his petition via the Office of Ombudsman, citing the Election Commission's confusing rules as ground to cancel the balloting outcome.

Along with some two million voters, he and his wife showed up at their designated polling station in Bangkok but were denied a chance to cast vote.

-- The Nation 2011-07-08

[rubl]

"Appeasement - The term appeasement is commonly understood to refer to a diplomatic policy aimed at avoiding war by making concessions to another power.

Daft response. I wasn't talking about appeasement. I was talking about the fact that 16m Thais voted for this party. If you want to show them that they made a mistake, you'd better let those mistakes happen rather than patronise them with your superior judgement.

You said "The dems need to let this gov't implode under its own weight. Anything else will only increase i) Thaksin's appeal and ii) disharmony/strife/civil war." Thereby suggesting 'asking the EC to investigate' was wrong, in your opinion that is.

Your post brought the word 'appeasement' to my mind and the pro/cons. The Wiki article gives both those pros and cons, IMHO. I only provide the info and link, I leave the judgment of your remark to others. Look for my other posts in this topic if you want to know my 'superior' judgment and opinion

[noahvail]

I'm curious. Thaksin is currently under a 5-year ban from participating in politics. If the EC were to determine that he has been engaged in politics, would he get another 5-year ban? Or are there other penalties?

[patjem]

Surprise,surprise!

The people have had their say, hopefully he courts will throw this out before it even gets off the ground.

Upholding anything like this would probably be the simple way to allow the military to do exactly what they said they won't on the basis that they would be intervening in a potential civil war.

Let the democratically elected government to get on with their job, if they fail the people will have an opportunity to go to the polls again in the future.

So you are in favour of any wrong-doing by the winning party being overlooked because they won?

Personally my hope is that laws are not thrown out the window, but abided by, and that it can be shown that Puea Thai did. If they didn't, well then they get what's coming.

Agreed. It's a parallel logic to saying that an athlete who tests positive for a performance-enhancing drug shouldn't get banned, "because he won". I accept that different people have different perspectives, but the argument of "they won" doesn't cut it with my logic, at least.

[futureexpat]

So the party that was in bed with Newin Chidchob and depended upon him to get into office is complaining about banned politicians being involved in elections?

[whybother]

Agreed. It's a parallel logic to saying that an athlete who tests positive for a performance-enhancing drug shouldn't get banned, "because he won". I accept that different people have different perspectives, but the argument of "they won" doesn't cut it with my logic, at least.

Excellent analogy. :jap:

[Jingthing]

Agreed. It's a parallel logic to saying that an athlete who tests positive for a performance-enhancing drug shouldn't get banned, "because he won". I accept that different people have different perspectives, but the argument of "they won" doesn't cut it with my logic, at least.

Logic. Thai politics. Hard to mix.

[bangkokrick]

We all knew this was going to happen!

It was always on the cards and they have a legitimate complaint. Thakisn should never have got involved because he is banned from politics.

[evanson]

Anyone else have a sense of deja vu?

The term 'deja vu' by no means enough to describe the utter futility of even bothering to comment on Thai 'politics'. Take up online suduko or something. YAWN.

Edited July 8, 2011 by evanson

[whybother]

So the party that was in bed with Newin Chidchob and depended upon him to get into office is complaining about banned politicians being involved in elections?

If Newin Chidchob was involved in election campaigning for the Democrats, I'm sure PTP would have lodged a complaint by now.

[futureexpat]

So the party that was in bed with Newin Chidchob and depended upon him to get into office is complaining about banned politicians being involved in elections?

If Newin Chidchob was involved in election campaigning for the Democrats, I'm sure PTP would have lodged a complaint by now.

How does it work? Banned politicians can be involved in politics but cannot be seen publicly campaigning during an election?

[whybother]

So the party that was in bed with Newin Chidchob and depended upon him to get into office is complaining about banned politicians being involved in elections?

If Newin Chidchob was involved in election campaigning for the Democrats, I'm sure PTP would have lodged a complaint by now.

How does it work? Banned politicians can be involved in politics but cannot be seen publicly campaigning during an election?

I remember comments being made just prior to the election being called, that Thaksin would no longer be allowed to make calls in to rallies, so it seems it does work that way.

[philw]

If the democrats were interested in reconciliation for Thailand, then they would not have filed this.

Precisely the point.

This all about control and could possibly be soon about oppression.

Thailand is the bully politics of the schoolyard watched over by the guns of the military.

It's only going in one direction and that is downhill.

[wolf5370]

This action, IF it is successful, won't get the Democrats into government.

It's NOT 2008.

The PTP have a majority of seats and don't have large factions that are going to change sides.

Only the executives will be banned. Some by-elections will need to take place, which new-PTP will no doubt win.

Yingluck will still be PM. The new-PTP will still have a majority and will still have the support of their coalition partners.

Nothing will change.

Maybe, IF this is the ONLY action taken. I would not be surprised if before the end of the year every action is taken to remove Thaksin from power for good, even if it means turmoil in the streets again. I really believe the vast majority of Thais and politicians would be willing to accept any party victory as long as Thaksin was not involved. Just as I believe there are a great number of these same people who are willing to see a significant crisis now, in order to rid Thailand of Thaksin once and for all in order to truly move Thailand and all its people forward.

It seems that a vast majority of Thais are willing to accept a party as long as Thaksin IS involved.

But, maybe, if PTP are banned, their replacement party will learn to win without breaking the law.

Third time lucky you mean? (TRT/PPP/PTP)

[bitterbatter]

If they insist in going against the public's wishes there will be REVOLUTION.

I understand why they think this way but really the only fair way to conquer this is through education and media teaching people why they should be concerned about a political parties intentions.

Make a movie instead of starting a war.

[whybother]

Third time lucky you mean? (TRT/PPP/PTP)

Fourth time ... you'd think they'd learn after 2 of their parties got banned for cheating.

[DumFarang]

Look at the colleges they attended very far from the elite.

The colleges Thaksin and Yingluck attended were not a reflection of their family background, but rather their academic level.

Whilst studying in America, Thaksin was driving himself around in a Mercedes. Does that not tell you something? His family had the funds for him to study wherever he liked, but studying somewhere like Yale or Oxford requires something more than money.

Truly --- and GOOD state Unis in the US are not much more expensive than bad state Unis ... Did he study at UT in Texas? No .... UCLA? No.... etc etc

But there's a vast difference in state universities and private ones, huge, thousands and thousands of dollars huge.

[whybother]

If the democrats were interested in reconciliation for Thailand, then they would not have filed this.

Precisely the point.

This all about control and could possibly be soon about oppression.

Thailand is the bully politics of the schoolyard watched over by the guns of the military.

It's only going in one direction and that is downhill.

Actually, this is about the law.

It won't change who's in government ... same people, different name.

[rubl]

So the party that was in bed with Newin Chidchob and depended upon him to get into office is complaining about banned politicians being involved in elections?

If Newin Chidchob was involved in election campaigning for the Democrats, I'm sure PTP would have lodged a complaint by now.

How does it work? Banned politicians can be involved in politics but cannot be seen publicly campaigning during an election?

I remember comments being made just prior to the election being called, that Thaksin would no longer be allowed to make calls in to rallies, so it seems it does work that way.

If k. Thaksin holds copyright on those phone/video-ins, can he sue the Dem's for handing an illegal copy to the EC

[bitterbatter]

If they insist in going against the public's wishes there will be REVOLUTION.

I understand why they think this way but really the only fair way to conquer this is through education and media teaching people why they should be concerned about a political parties intentions.

Make a movie instead of starting a war.

Its time for a Thai Michael Moore to step forward.

[hanuman2543]

If Newin Chidchob was involved in election campaigning for the Democrats, I'm sure PTP would have lodged a complaint by now.

Not involved in campaining for the Democrats but for Bumjaithai. We hear nothing about it because he "owns" the Buriram Province including many "Officials" , that is an open secret in the Isaan.

[Jingthing]

If they insist in going against the public's wishes there will be REVOLUTION.

I understand why they think this way but really the only fair way to conquer this is through education and media teaching people why they should be concerned about a political parties intentions.

Make a movie instead of starting a war.

Or civil war. Look at a map of how the voting went. Totally divided country.