Thaksin's Return Is Overdue: Yongyuth

[yoshiwara]

PM: insists she works for the Thai people , and not for one particular person

Yes. She might be working for the Thai people, but she has everyone else working for one particular person.

That is spot on, but it shows the weakness of the PMs position that she has to deny that returning Thaksin is top of the agenda. Or even advocating that it should be top of the agenda.

It also ties the forum Thaksin apologists in a problem knot. Which line do they wish to push?

[hyperdimension]

"Undeniably, there are people who still don't like Thaksin, but their number has not increased or is even declining. The other side, on the other hand, is getting bigger and bigger in an alarming manner," he (Yongyuth) said, pointing to the July 3 poll result.

To use the election results to determine whether the number of people who like Thaksin has increased is outrageously flawed. Either he lacks basic understanding of statistics and hypotheses, or he thinks everyone else does, or both.

To determine whether more people like Thaksin now than before, you would need to conduct two surveys with the question "Do you like Thaksin", one done in the past and one in the present, and then compare the results to determine whether the number of people who like Thaksin has increased.

Edited September 13, 2011 by hyperdimension

[TheWhiteFella]

Pheu Thai candidates won support because they promised people that a Pheu Thai government would make it a priority to bring Thaksin back,

But it was just a promise during campaigning, and it didn't mean anything.

But all the money they promised to give away is a promise kept.

Even if it will bankrupt Thailand like all the countries whose voters vote themselves a raise in the name of entitlements

[bubba]

I wonder if the history of South Africa would have been different if Nelson Mandela had stated that he refused to serve a day in prison, and then fled the country. Or if the history of Burma would be different if Aung San Suu Kyi had taken the same course of action. Both of these people served time in miserable prison conditions for political reasons and unjust sentences.

I wonder if Thailand would be different now had, out of love for his country and self-sacrifice for a rightful cause, Thaksin taken the same brave actions as Nelson Mandela and Aug San Syu Kii rather than fleeing to live in luxury outside of Thailand, or if Thaksin's legacy would be different?

[Jingthing]

Serving or not serving, it is absurd and despicable to suggest a moral equivalency of Thaksin and Mandella/Aug San Syu Kii.

[Siripon]

I wonder if the history of South Africa would have been different if Nelson Mandela had stated that he refused to serve a day in prison, and then fled the country. Or if the history of Burma would be different if Aung San Suu Kyi had taken the same course of action. Both of these people served time in miserable prison conditions for political reasons and unjust sentences.

I wonder if Thailand would be different now had, out of love for his country and self-sacrifice for a rightful cause, Thaksin taken the same brave actions as Nelson Mandela and Aug San Syu Kii rather than fleeing to live in luxury outside of Thailand, or if Thaksin's legacy would be different?

Mandela, Gandhi, Aung San Suu Kyi were and are people who fought against occupying powers in periods of no democracy.

Thaksin, one the other hand, became an autocratic leader in a democracy that he constantly undermined. To this day he still craves dominance, note the signed resignation letters of every Pheua Thai MP in his pocket.

Please do not compare delicious tom yam dishes to a chicken burger in a 7-11.

[bubba]

Serving or not serving, it is absurd and despicable to suggest a moral equivalency of Thaksin and Mandella/Aug San Syu Kii.

Please understand that by no means did I intend any such comparison of character between Thaksin and Nelson Mandela or Aung San Syu Kyi. I think the fact that Thaksin refused to spend even a day in prison and ran away from his country to live a life of luxury serves to demonstrate the difference.

[bubba]

"Undeniably, there are people who still don't like Thaksin, but their number has not increased or is even declining. The other side, on the other hand, is getting bigger and bigger in an alarming manner," he (Yongyuth) said, pointing to the July 3 poll result.

To use the election results to determine whether the number of people who like Thaksin has increased is outrageously flawed. Either he lacks basic understanding of statistics and hypotheses, or he thinks everyone else does, or both.

To determine whether more people like Thaksin now than before, you would need to conduct two surveys with the question "Do you like Thaksin", one done in the past and one in the present, and then compare the results to determine whether the number of people who like Thaksin has increased.

I don't understand the logic. So if the majority of the public "likes" a fugitive felon, does that justify a complete pardon for a that convicted criminal who has been duly tried and sentenced in a court of law?

[looping]

PM: insists she works for the Thai people , and not for one particular person

BANGKOK, 12 September 2011 (NNT)-Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra insisted that she came to work for Thai people not for any one in particular, adding that only time would tell.

Yingluck denied the Opposition that she had yet to meet her brother, Police Lieutenant-Colonel Thaksin Shinawatra and that the royal pardon for him had not been discussed between them.

She added that she was not aware of the comment made by Mr. Wanchai Sornsiri, the former Secretary- General of the Law Society of Thailand, about the law governing the royal pardon, saying that the matter depended on the decision of an individual.

Ms. Yingluck also said that this was not the time to criticize whether or not her brother’s return would further instigate problem in the country and that the focus should be on her as she was here for the Thai people.

FLUENT BS!! It would appear that she shares her brother's talent for lying compulsively, not that she has a choice at this stage in the game.

[kraplung]

He could back any time he wants, there is a prisoncell waiting for him, whats the problem. He serves his term, comes out, keps all the promises his chums have made, promises to be good boy from now on and here we al are at the end of the rainbow. Now rewind and check for twist and turns along the way.

And at the same time he could provide details of his promise that everybody will be rich in 6 months.

How long is it now since he was sentenced by the highest court in the kingdom? If only the Immigration Dept were so flexible about people not showing up on time!

[JurgenG]

Serving or not serving, it is absurd and despicable to suggest a moral equivalency of Thaksin and Aug San Syu Kii.

Absolutely.

Both were democratically elected and both were denied their democratic right to lead their country by a military coup

Aug San Syu Kii. has spent the past 20 years under house arrest (15 out of 20 to be more precise) with absolutely no result.

In 5 years, from his exile, Thaksin was able to defeat the junta and restore a democratically elected government in Thailand.

And honestly Yingluck looks much better that Aug San Syu Kii.

Thailand 2 - 0 Burma

Edited September 13, 2011 by JurgenG

[AleG]

Absolutely.

Both were democratically elected and both were denied their democratic right to lead their country by a military coup

Aug San Syu Kii. has spent the past 20 years under house arrest (15 out of 20 to be more precise) with absolutely no result.

In 5 years, from his exile, Thaksin was able to defeat the junta and restore a democratically elected government in Thailand.

And honestly Yingluck looks much better that Aug San Syu Kii.

Thailand 2 - 0 Burma

There's enough spin in this post to put a satellite in orbit.

[Insight]

Absolutely.

Both were democratically elected and both were denied their democratic right to lead their country by a military coup

Aug San Syu Kii. has spent the past 20 years under house arrest (15 out of 20 to be more precise) with absolutely no result.

In 5 years, from his exile, Thaksin was able to defeat the junta and restore a democratically elected government in Thailand.

And honestly Yingluck looks much better that Aug San Syu Kii.

Thailand 2 - 0 Burma

There's enough spin in this post to put a satellite in orbit.

Amazing what you can do with a few billion ripped-off baht. I prefer the Aug San Syu Kii method, personally...

[MunterHunter]

Serving or not serving, it is absurd and despicable to suggest a moral equivalency of Thaksin and Aug San Syu Kii.

Absolutely.

Both were democratically elected and both were denied their democratic right to lead their country by a military coup

Aug San Syu Kii. has spent the past 20 years under house arrest (15 out of 20 to be more precise) with absolutely no result.

In 5 years, from his exile, Thaksin was able to defeat the junta and restore a democratically elected government in Thailand.

And honestly Yingluck looks much better that Aug San Syu Kii.

Thailand 2 - 0 Burma

I presume you are taking the p*ss... either that or you are drunk or high...

[janverbeem]

"These two trains are supposed to run, or even race, side by side. Undeniably, there are people who still don't like Thaksin, but their number has not increased or is even declining. The other side, on the other hand, is getting bigger and bigger in an alarming manner," he (Yongyuth) said, pointing to the July 3 poll result.

Amusing how they turn the poll result into a vote for the return of Thaksin. Do they honesty believe anyone with even part of a functioning brain can't figure out that the ฿300/day fairy dust promises might have been more of an incentive for the Isaan vote than returning a fugitive convict to Thailand.

And it is even more amusing to see how many tricks they are shaking out of their sleeve to avoid that they have to implement their real election promises which they can not come true

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/497744-bt300-wage-push-will-hit-social-security-office-contributions-thai-govt-warns/

[JurgenG]

Absolutely.

Both were democratically elected and both were denied their democratic right to lead their country by a military coup

Aug San Syu Kii. has spent the past 20 years under house arrest (15 out of 20 to be more precise) with absolutely no result.

In 5 years, from his exile, Thaksin was able to defeat the junta and restore a democratically elected government in Thailand.

And honestly Yingluck looks much better that Aug San Syu Kii.

Thailand 2 - 0 Burma

There's enough spin in this post to put a satellite in orbit.

Amazing what you can do with a few billion ripped-off baht. I prefer the Aug San Syu Kii method, personally...

I'm afraid a few burmese people who are waiting for democracy for the past 20 years might not agree with you.

But sure, Aug San Syu Kii makes a very romantic figure for a movie that will deeply move the rich and the famous at the next Cannes festival.

[ThaiOats]

Think the opposition should just give up. According to channel 3 news in Thailand, Thawil - the previous NSC chief - decided to cancel his appeal. Given the choices, "Oppose us and get screwed or join us and enjoy the luxuries", the latter seems a better choice. Same could probably be said about the ex National Police Chief Wichean. As unfair and depressing as this outlook may be, it's something that we'll have to accept unless the opposition performs a Miracle. Thailand is headed for a capitalistic dictoracy.

Give the poor what they want, money and better quality of life while the rest just follow through with "can't beat em, join em" attitude. There's no denying that if Thaksin was never caught or never did any of his atrocities, he would be the long reigning premier of Thailand. He's smart by exploiting Thailand to it's fullest, just buy the people, who cares about fancy words or education. I'd wonder had Thaksin been a politician in a non-third world country, would he be able to manipulate people as easily.

Next in line is the military. Once PTP gets a hold of that, it's game over. There's no denying it.. Thaksin will win this one no matter how many educated and reasonable oppositions there are. Majority of Thais don't care about the country, they care about themselves and who can blame them when it just can't get any worse right?

Edited September 13, 2011 by ThaiOats

[ToffeEFCpower]

Sae Deang also thought he was invincible!!!

[ThaiOats]

Sae Deang also thought he was invincible!!!

He was ten 0s away from invicibility.

[plumeria]

Amazing how politicians know so well what their "people" want -- as if anyone ever asks the citizenry.

[whybother]

Serving or not serving, it is absurd and despicable to suggest a moral equivalency of Thaksin and Aug San Syu Kii.

Absolutely.

Both were democratically elected and both were denied their democratic right to lead their country by a military coup

Aug San Syu Kii. has spent the past 20 years under house arrest (15 out of 20 to be more precise) with absolutely no result.

In 5 years, from his exile, Thaksin was able to defeat the junta and restore a democratically elected government in Thailand.

And honestly Yingluck looks much better that Aug San Syu Kii.

Thailand 2 - 0 Burma

When was Aung San Suu Kyi elected to lead her country?

If you didn't notice, the junta submitted the country to elections in 2007.

[khaowong1]

Since you never read of the news media, reporting on what people are saying in the streets, I doubt you can ever get a direct answer to the Thaksin situation. Free press, they don't have. Free speech, they don't have. Free thoughts, c'mon.

[billd766]

Serving or not serving, it is absurd and despicable to suggest a moral equivalency of Thaksin and Aug San Syu Kii.

Absolutely.

Both were democratically elected and both were denied their democratic right to lead their country by a military coup

Aug San Syu Kii. has spent the past 20 years under house arrest (15 out of 20 to be more precise) with absolutely no result.

In 5 years, from his exile, Thaksin was able to defeat the junta and restore a democratically elected government in Thailand.

And honestly Yingluck looks much better that Aug San Syu Kii.

Thailand 2 - 0 Burma

When was Aung San Suu Kyi elected to lead her country?

If you didn't notice, the junta submitted the country to elections in 2007.

I did notice but did you notice the last free election back in 1990 that the Burmese Junta never acknowledged the results.

From Wikipedia

In the 1990 general election, Aung San Suu Kyi's National League for Democracy party won 59% of the national votes and 81% (392 of 485) of the seats in Parliament.[2][3][4][5][6][7][8] She had, however, already been detained under house arrest before the elections. She remained under house arrest in Burma for almost 15 of the 21 years from 20 July 1989 until her release on 13 November 2010.[9].

So I guess the answer to your question was in 1990.

The information is easily available from many places on Google.

I just chose the first of about 7,660,000 hits about Aung San Suu Kyi and it only took me a minute or so.

[ratcatcher]

Serving or not serving, it is absurd and despicable to suggest a moral equivalency of Thaksin and Aug San Syu Kii.

Absolutely.

Both were democratically elected and both were denied their democratic right to lead their country by a military coup

Aug San Syu Kii. has spent the past 20 years under house arrest (15 out of 20 to be more precise) with absolutely no result.

In 5 years, from his exile, Thaksin was able to defeat the junta and restore a democratically elected government in Thailand.

And honestly Yingluck looks much better that Aug San Syu Kii.

Thailand 2 - 0 Burma

Well apart from the absolute bullshit of your post Jurgen.C, your comment about Yingluck looking much better than Aung San Suu Kyi is nothing but a cheap shot.

What have looks ever had to do with political ability and sincerity.

Suu Kyi has spent 20 years in detention and house arrest with few if any visitors.

She is an icon in world politics and will be remembered in the history books along with other great leaders of her ilk.

Thaksin Shinawatra will be remembered in the history of Thailand as a conniving, greedy, corrupt, megalomaniac.

His sister will probably be remembered about as much as a fart in a windstorm.

Maybe she'll end up known as Lady Naka.

[rixalex]

Pheu Thai government to start working on anything else other than Mr. T%$#@* " is overdue!

Really rather like the last lot. Squabbling over Taksin and doing very little else FOR the Thai people other than to re-entrench the status quo.

The thing is, regarding the last lot, they were continually battling against Thaksin's orchestrated insurgency, so there was a justification for being distracted - it's not like you can just ignore people throwing molotov cocktails, no more than you can ignore an international smear campaign - you can't just bury your head in the sand - you have to deal with it and you have to deal with who is behind it. That's what the Dems were doing. By all means criticise them for doing it badly, but don't criticise them for doing it, because I don't think they really had much choice in the matter. This lot do.

[JurgenG]

Serving or not serving, it is absurd and despicable to suggest a moral equivalency of Thaksin and Aug San Syu Kii.

Absolutely.

Both were democratically elected and both were denied their democratic right to lead their country by a military coup

Aug San Syu Kii. has spent the past 20 years under house arrest (15 out of 20 to be more precise) with absolutely no result.

In 5 years, from his exile, Thaksin was able to defeat the junta and restore a democratically elected government in Thailand.

And honestly Yingluck looks much better that Aug San Syu Kii.

Thailand 2 - 0 Burma

Well apart from the absolute bullshit of your post Jurgen.C, your comment about Yingluck looking much better than Aung San Suu Kyi is nothing but a cheap shot.

What have looks ever had to do with political ability and sincerity.

Suu Kyi has spent 20 years in detention and house arrest with few if any visitors.

She is an icon in world politics and will be remembered in the history books along with other great leaders of her ilk.

Thaksin Shinawatra will be remembered in the history of Thailand as a conniving, greedy, corrupt, megalomaniac.

His sister will probably be remembered about as much as a fart in a windstorm.

Maybe she'll end up known as Lady Naka.

My post BS ? My post are facts, just read the post above yours (post # 53)

ASSK is perfect heroin for the romantic warrior, but for the people of Burma who suffer for the past 20 years, she is a total failure.

I always remember this quote from I don't know who : "Not being a leftist when you're in your 20's is a lack of generosity. Still being one when you reach 40 is a lack of intelligence"

My question : how old are you ?

Edited September 14, 2011 by JurgenG

[JurgenG]

And that Yingluck is much better looking than ASSK is a fact too

[MAJIC]

Interesting that it is Yongyuth who has said this as he is a Thai "senior", and one whose stock is rising, albeit a Thaksin siding senior. In the past he would never had said this but the momentum seems to be growing as he himself points out. That this momentum is particularly with the red rather than traditional wing of the Thaksin alliance is noticeable too, and of course Yongyuth plays on this being a more traditional player and accepted senior

Already there is a split in the Thai newsprint media with arguably those with the largest circulation moving towards a more neutral/pro-PTP position. Connors before the election predicted if PTP won the liberal wing of the anti-Thaksin alliance would no longer be able to support the level of ever increasing authoritarianism that would be needed to once again unseat Thaksin's allies. It looks as though he is either right, or more have accepted reality, and this may be a good thing as it is gives the chance of a tipping point to see through a deal more chance.

What in Gods name does this drivel mean... keep taking your medicine ...!

If you dont understand, I doubt you understand the nature of the power games going on. This isnt some black and white issue

Well I understand it!

It's pure unadulterated, Red B*** S*** speculation at it's worst!

[JurgenG]

Already there is a split in the Thai newsprint media with arguably those with the largest circulation moving towards a more neutral/pro-PTP position. Connors before the election predicted if PTP won the liberal wing of the anti-Thaksin alliance would no longer be able to support the level of ever increasing authoritarianism that would be needed to once again unseat Thaksin's allies. It looks as though he is either right, or more have accepted reality, and this may be a good thing as it is gives the chance of a tipping point to see through a deal more chance.

I believe Connor is right. Even before the election there were an increasing discontentment among young democrats, those who support Abhisit/Korn, against the increasing internet censure and the abuses of the lese-majeste law. The USA had also make clear with the military that they won't accept an other military coup. But anyway the military had already realized they were not able to lead a 21st century country.

Also the democrats had realized they couldn't hide anymore behind the PAD for the dirty jobs. The PAD had become a major embarrassment and its extremism too obvious for comfort. Beside Thaksin had shown he can also mobilize his own mob, calling the bluff of the democrats.

So it had to be a "clean" election and if the Pheu Thai wins, so be it.

A few people are still in denial, or in an anger phase, but it has more to do with a post traumatic condition than a real threat to the present government. Acceptance is already here, it's time for some posters to understand and accept it.

Edited September 14, 2011 by JurgenG

[whybother]

When was Aung San Suu Kyi elected to lead her country?

If you didn't notice, the junta submitted the country to elections in 2007.

I did notice but did you notice the last free election back in 1990 that the Burmese Junta never acknowledged the results.

From Wikipedia

In the 1990 general election, Aung San Suu Kyi's National League for Democracy party won 59% of the national votes and 81% (392 of 485) of the seats in Parliament.[2][3][4][5][6][7][8] She had, however, already been detained under house arrest before the elections. She remained under house arrest in Burma for almost 15 of the 21 years from 20 July 1989 until her release on 13 November 2010.[9].

So I guess the answer to your question was in 1990.

The information is easily available from many places on Google.

I just chose the first of about 7,660,000 hits about Aung San Suu Kyi and it only took me a minute or so.

You missed the part where *she* wasn't actually elected, so *she* couldn't be PM and lead her country.

Once you use Google, it is usually a good idea to read more than the first thing you come across, although in this case the information *was* in the wiki article you referenced.