Exactly. My guess is that banks that have more assets than many countries have yearly budgets will have more power than politicians.

The only thing against that is that the banks tend to spread their assets, so may have less power in any one country.

Surprisingly, 31 countries have a budget expenditure over $100 billion, and 120 are over $3 billion (Burma is #121). Most figures are 2009 or earlier. Greece ranks 26th with $142 billion.

Interesting, what is the source of these budget figures?

Even if the banks spread their assets over several countries, they will make sure that they won't lose power. I can sit in England and have my assets in Vanuatu - I still have control and can move the money and influence economies in third countries. Especially if I have US$ 2-3 trillion in assets, compared to Greece's budget US$ 142 billion. It's order of magnitude more, and then some.

The country budgets come from the CIA wold factbook, full of exciting things like the countries with the most circumcised men, the largest beer consumers... you name it.

http://www.photius.com/rankings/index.html

Yes, even if BNP were to pay all Greece's expenses for the year, it wouldn't be a disaster for it.

The country budgets come from the CIA wold factbook, full of exciting things like the countries with the most circumcised men, the largest beer consumers... you name it.

http://www.photius.c...ings/index.html

LOL! Nice try. I use the CIA Factbook often and I can assure you it doesn't say anything about beer consumption or circumcisions.

Photius is another story, quite interesting. I will check the reliability of the website.

Yes, even if BNP were to pay all Greece's expenses for the year, it wouldn't be a disaster for it.

Please explain to me why the Greeks are staging a strike against the rescue package?

Obviously the risk managers in charge at BNP and the other banks didn't do their jobs very well. It turns out that the beneficiary does not want the benefit, and the Greek government was not speaking for the Greek people when they made the agreements.

The country budgets come from the CIA wold factbook, full of exciting things like the countries with the most circumcised men, the largest beer consumers... you name it.

http://www.photius.c...ings/index.html

LOL! Nice try. I use the CIA Factbook often and I can assure you it doesn't say anything about beer consumption or circumcisions.

Photius is another story, quite interesting. I will check the reliability of the website.

Yes, even if BNP were to pay all Greece's expenses for the year, it wouldn't be a disaster for it.

Please explain to me why the Greeks are staging a strike against the rescue package?

Obviously the risk managers in charge at BNP and the other banks didn't do their jobs very well. It turns out that the beneficiary does not want the benefit, and the Greek government was not speaking for the Greek people when they made the agreements.

To be fair, he didn't say that circumcision stats were on the CIA web site; only stats like that. And maybe you don't have access to the full expanse of that site that he has, or those of us that go commando...

SC

I still say we should invade Poland. Its crucial for the future of Europe. There's no one home? It should be easy then.

:lol:

The country budgets come from the CIA wold factbook, full of exciting things like the countries with the most circumcised men, the largest beer consumers... you name it.

http://www.photius.c...ings/index.html

LOL! Nice try. I use the CIA Factbook often and I can assure you it doesn't say anything about beer consumption or circumcisions.

Photius is another story, quite interesting. I will check the reliability of the website.

Yes, even if BNP were to pay all Greece's expenses for the year, it wouldn't be a disaster for it.

Please explain to me why the Greeks are staging a strike against the rescue package?

Obviously the risk managers in charge at BNP and the other banks didn't do their jobs very well. It turns out that the beneficiary does not want the benefit, and the Greek government was not speaking for the Greek people when they made the agreements.

Sorry, I didn't check the Photius site carefully enough. The stats I quoted came from the non-CIA section. Anyway, for your info, the only countries where 100% of the men are circumcised are Niue, Guam, and the Northern Marianas. Israel, which one would have expected to claim 100%, is >80%.

Back to the Eurozone. I too have been puzzled by the Greeks staging strikes against the rescue package. I suppose the attitude is, "Yes, we agree we need to be rescued, but somebody else can pay for it, not us," which seems remarkably short-sighted. It raises a question from another topic, "Do democratic governments really represent their people?" to which I would answer, "Generally, no."

The country budgets come from the CIA wold factbook, full of exciting things like the countries with the most circumcised men, the largest beer consumers... you name it.

http://www.photius.c...ings/index.html

LOL! Nice try. I use the CIA Factbook often and I can assure you it doesn't say anything about beer consumption or circumcisions.

Photius is another story, quite interesting. I will check the reliability of the website.

Yes, even if BNP were to pay all Greece's expenses for the year, it wouldn't be a disaster for it.

Please explain to me why the Greeks are staging a strike against the rescue package?

Obviously the risk managers in charge at BNP and the other banks didn't do their jobs very well. It turns out that the beneficiary does not want the benefit, and the Greek government was not speaking for the Greek people when they made the agreements.

Sorry, I didn't check the Photius site carefully enough. The stats I quoted came from the non-CIA section. Anyway, for your info, the only countries where 100% of the men are circumcised are Niue, Guam, and the Northern Marianas. Israel, which one would have expected to claim 100%, is >80%.

Back to the Eurozone. I too have been puzzled by the Greeks staging strikes against the rescue package. I suppose the attitude is, "Yes, we agree we need to be rescued, but somebody else can pay for it, not us," which seems remarkably short-sighted. It raises a question from another topic, "Do democratic governments really represent their people?" to which I would answer, "Generally, no."

Representing the people is only a small part of the job of government; their prime responsibility is administration or governance. We choose our doctor, even though we may try to avoid the medicine

SC

The country budgets come from the CIA wold factbook, full of exciting things like the countries with the most circumcised men, the largest beer consumers... you name it.

http://www.photius.c...ings/index.html

LOL! Nice try. I use the CIA Factbook often and I can assure you it doesn't say anything about beer consumption or circumcisions.

Photius is another story, quite interesting. I will check the reliability of the website.

Yes, even if BNP were to pay all Greece's expenses for the year, it wouldn't be a disaster for it.

Please explain to me why the Greeks are staging a strike against the rescue package?

Obviously the risk managers in charge at BNP and the other banks didn't do their jobs very well. It turns out that the beneficiary does not want the benefit, and the Greek government was not speaking for the Greek people when they made the agreements.

Sorry, I didn't check the Photius site carefully enough. The stats I quoted came from the non-CIA section. Anyway, for your info, the only countries where 100% of the men are circumcised are Niue, Guam, and the Northern Marianas. Israel, which one would have expected to claim 100%, is >80%.

Back to the Eurozone. I too have been puzzled by the Greeks staging strikes against the rescue package. I suppose the attitude is, "Yes, we agree we need to be rescued, but somebody else can pay for it, not us," which seems remarkably short-sighted. It raises a question from another topic, "Do democratic governments really represent their people?" to which I would answer, "Generally, no."

Guam isn't a country.

...

Guam isn't a country.

I believe it is no less a country than Wales; insofar as they have their own rugby team.

SC

Let's have Christmas on the 25th of each month. The western Christian democracies will flourish...bars will be turned back into churches!

I'm growing my beard in readiness for my new career....

The country budgets come from the CIA wold factbook, full of exciting things like the countries with the most circumcised men, the largest beer consumers... you name it.

http://www.photius.c...ings/index.html

LOL! Nice try. I use the CIA Factbook often and I can assure you it doesn't say anything about beer consumption or circumcisions.

Photius is another story, quite interesting. I will check the reliability of the website.

Yes, even if BNP were to pay all Greece's expenses for the year, it wouldn't be a disaster for it.

Please explain to me why the Greeks are staging a strike against the rescue package?

Obviously the risk managers in charge at BNP and the other banks didn't do their jobs very well. It turns out that the beneficiary does not want the benefit, and the Greek government was not speaking for the Greek people when they made the agreements.

Sorry, I didn't check the Photius site carefully enough. The stats I quoted came from the non-CIA section. Anyway, for your info, the only countries where 100% of the men are circumcised are Niue, Guam, and the Northern Marianas. Israel, which one would have expected to claim 100%, is >80%.

Back to the Eurozone. I too have been puzzled by the Greeks staging strikes against the rescue package. I suppose the attitude is, "Yes, we agree we need to be rescued, but somebody else can pay for it, not us," which seems remarkably short-sighted. It raises a question from another topic, "Do democratic governments really represent their people?" to which I would answer, "Generally, no."

Puzzle no more. The labor unions in Greece are, like in the US, totally and completely out of control.

It has been that way in Greece for 30 years that I know of.

Labor unions, like political organizations, help no one but themselves and are a drain on the public purse.

Representing the people is only a small part of the job of government; their prime responsibility is administration or governance. We choose our doctor, even though we may try to avoid the medicine

SC

On the contrary. Representing the people is the whole job of government; they administer and govern for and on behalf of the people. That is not the same as saying they have to do what the people like; like the doctor, they have to do what is good for the people.

...

Guam isn't a country.

I believe it is no less a country than Wales; insofar as they have their own rugby team.

SC

Just because the UK is all messed up with everyone having their own sport teams doesn't mean that Guam is a country. This is even further off-topic but I've always wondered why in the Olympics it's Great Britain but in most other sports each "country" has its own team.

Sorry, I didn't check the Photius site carefully enough. The stats I quoted came from the non-CIA section. Anyway, for your info, the only countries where 100% of the men are circumcised are Niue, Guam, and the Northern Marianas. Israel, which one would have expected to claim 100%, is >80%.

Back to the Eurozone. I too have been puzzled by the Greeks staging strikes against the rescue package. I suppose the attitude is, "Yes, we agree we need to be rescued, but somebody else can pay for it, not us," which seems remarkably short-sighted. It raises a question from another topic, "Do democratic governments really represent their people?" to which I would answer, "Generally, no."

Guam isn't a country.

Splitting hairs, Koheesti. Anyway, my remark was off-topic, and just put in for fun.

The country budgets come from the CIA wold factbook, full of exciting things like the countries with the most circumcised men, the largest beer consumers... you name it.

http://www.photius.c...ings/index.html

LOL! Nice try. I use the CIA Factbook often and I can assure you it doesn't say anything about beer consumption or circumcisions.

Photius is another story, quite interesting. I will check the reliability of the website.

Yes, even if BNP were to pay all Greece's expenses for the year, it wouldn't be a disaster for it.

Please explain to me why the Greeks are staging a strike against the rescue package?

Obviously the risk managers in charge at BNP and the other banks didn't do their jobs very well. It turns out that the beneficiary does not want the benefit, and the Greek government was not speaking for the Greek people when they made the agreements.

Sorry, I didn't check the Photius site carefully enough. The stats I quoted came from the non-CIA section. Anyway, for your info, the only countries where 100% of the men are circumcised are Niue, Guam, and the Northern Marianas. Israel, which one would have expected to claim 100%, is >80%.

Back to the Eurozone. I too have been puzzled by the Greeks staging strikes against the rescue package. I suppose the attitude is, "Yes, we agree we need to be rescued, but somebody else can pay for it, not us," which seems remarkably short-sighted. It raises a question from another topic, "Do democratic governments really represent their people?" to which I would answer, "Generally, no."

Thank you about the information about the circumcisions. Something I've always wanted to know....

I disagree with your supposition about the Greeks' attitude. I wish we had a Greek chiming in here.

It is more than Greece simply not wanting to accept the bailout. It is also not simply because they do not want to pay.

It is partially because Greece does not want to give up their sovereignty.

If they accept the bail out as it is now packaged they have to agree outside authorities will take over various functions related to tax collection.

IMO Greece will eventually default...Who is next is the bigger question.

It is more than Greece simply not wanting to accept the bailout. It is also not simply because they do not want to pay.

It is partially because Greece does not want to give up their sovereignty.

If they accept the bail out as it is now packaged they have to agree outside authorities will take over various functions related to tax collection.

IMO Greece will eventually default...Who is next is the bigger question.

Of all the actors in the Greek sovereign debt crisis, I blame the Greeks the least. IMO the German, French, and whichever other banks hold this paper failed in their risk mangement practices with regard to holding sovereign debt. They failed to exercise proper due diligance when buying it. They purchased instruments which weren't priced right given the extant risks. They relied too much on the ratings of third party agencies and to top it all off they took this paper and leveraged it up, thereby magnifying any adjustments in its valuation. I'd say these banks had a deathwish. That, or is more likely the case, they couldn't see past next quarter's earnings report and the yearend bonus pool.

Of all the actors in the Greek sovereign debt crisis, I blame the Greeks the least. IMO the German, French, and whichever other banks hold this paper failed in their risk mangement practices with regard to holding sovereign debt. They failed to exercise proper due diligance when buying it. They purchased instruments which weren't priced right given the extant risks. They relied too much on the ratings of third party agencies and to top it all off they took this paper and leveraged it up, thereby magnifying any adjustments in its valuation. I'd say these banks had a deathwish. That, or is more likely the case, they couldn't see past next quarter's earnings report and the yearend bonus pool.

Agreed & I think we may see the same if/when Italy's turn comes.

But in that case.......

French banks again due to their irrational risk management may not survive that one though

Italy is the world's 7th biggest economy (by expenditure budget), something like seven times the size of Greece's. If they are the next ninepin to fall... that's frightening.

I don't think the Greek unions think so much about sovereignty; are unions usually so far-sighted?

How did the big banks get so big if they're so stupid? Because that seems to be what lannarebirth and flying are saying... only they use nicer language than 'stupid'.

But never mind! France's latest Joan of Arc, Christine Lagarde, has vowed to take quick action to solve the Eurozone crisis. I can't wait.

Italy is the world's 7th biggest economy (by expenditure budget), something like seven times the size of Greece's. If they are the next ninepin to fall... that's frightening.

I don't think the Greek unions think so much about sovereignty; are unions usually so far-sighted?

How did the big banks get so big if they're so stupid? Because that seems to be what lannarebirth and flying are saying... only they use nicer language than 'stupid'.

But never mind! France's latest Joan of Arc, Christine Lagarde, has vowed to take quick action to solve the Eurozone crisis. I can't wait.

Italy is one of the I's in PIIGS

The rest being Portugal, Ireland, Greece & Spain

They are all on the bubble.

The banks are not stupid & I think that is why neither LB or I used the term.

The banks are what they always were....Greedy

How did they get that way? Because TPTB allowed/are tied to it & to some degree we allowed it by not watching TPTB.

Most do not follow how it all occurred.... happy to go about their lives with little interest in it generally.

After all much of it is beyond notice or understanding by the general citizenry.

Look at glaringly blatant recent events & see.

Look at how the banks are created & how fractional reserve banking works.

Look at the FED Reserve... especially how they were created & by whom.

Many assume they are the Federal government because of their name.

Look at the Central Banking System.

Look at how currency is created & loaned at low interest to the banks & what they do with it.

Look at how they worked the derivatives like Lannarebirth mentioned

Look at how unlike private industry, large banks are not allowed to fail & how the government props them & their greed up.

Greedy = short-sighted to an extent which I think is stupid... but I won't quarrel about terms! Banks used to be about people, but the bigger they get, the less real people are considered.

Joan of Arc is on the job... rumours of a 50% default for Greece. Whose money will that 50% be?

Greedy = short-sighted to an extent which I think is stupid... but I won't quarrel about terms! Banks used to be about people, but the bigger they get, the less real people are considered.

No, banks used to be about making money from savings & loans. That was ethical: Give me your excess money, I give you x% of interest. Somebody needs money, he can borrow from me and I charge him (x+a)% interest. It was a win-win situation.

Nowadays, banks are just about making money. Period. The "e word" is redundant.

Joan of Arc is on the job... rumours of a 50% default for Greece. Whose money will that 50% be?

It did sound on the radio as if it would be the banks', i.e. shareholders', money. Somehow I don't believe that.

I suppose we should bear in mind that most of the bank shares are held by institutional investers - meaning pension funds and the like. While I dislike pensioners as much as the next man, I am expecting to be one soon, so it behoves me to show some tolerance and goodwill towards them.

If I were clever enough to profit from the foolishness of others, as George Soros does, then perhaps I would be justified in villifying them and deriding their greed and stupidity. However, I note that he chooses to be moderate in his condemnation.

As usual, I ask you - what have you done to solve the Eurozone debt problems; I have offered my solution; Smokie suggested invading Poland, but I got the impression he felt that should be a collective rather than solitary effort; though my chum (coincidentally also SC) has established a vanguard there, I believe.

SC

As usual, I ask you - what have you done to solve the Eurozone debt problems;

Nothing, except for drinking European beers.

Actually, I didn't know I was supposed to solve the eurozone's problem. Forgive me for neglecting my duties, but I was of the opinion that they had highly-paid experts to do that.

NOW you are telling me that it's really up to ThaiVisa to solve these problems. I hear that it wasn't even mentioned in Hua Hin last weekend. The eurozone will go down just because we didn't solve their problems!

How can we live with that, and what do we tell our grandchildren. You are absolutely right, we have failed them.

I'm going to have to pass on this one as I have a few very nice free dinner dates riding on the collapse of the Euro. ie. I have some bets on whether there will be a collapse or not.

I'm afraid no great intuition on my part , I'm just hedging my bets with someone who should know and what he said about 5-6 yrs ago.

Greedy = short-sighted to an extent which I think is stupid... but I won't quarrel about terms! Banks used to be about people, but the bigger they get, the less real people are considered.

Joan of Arc is on the job... rumours of a 50% default for Greece. Whose money will that 50% be?

I watched these about 4-5 years ago.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vVkFb26u9g8

I once saw money being made in Petticoat Lane in London. There was this guy with a little machine, turning out banknotes. "Ten bob note.... bob and a tanner! Ten bob note.... bob and a tanner!"

Perhaps we should lend him to the Eurozone.

I once saw money being made in Petticoat Lane in London. There was this guy with a little machine, turning out banknotes. "Ten bob note.... bob and a tanner! Ten bob note.... bob and a tanner!"

Perhaps we should lend him to the Eurozone.

I remember that guy. He operated out of an office in Threadneedle Street during the noughties.

You guys need to listen to our (US) very own financial wizards, Obama and Geithner.

They are there to help you, if you will just listen.

Oh, and this thread is about Europe and the Euro, not about the US and the FED and the dollar. Some people seem to think everything is about the US.

I have mentioned a few times that it is all connected these days.

One does not move without affecting the other.

Go back to the start of this whole mess....or at least the first reaction Sept. 2008 & see for yourself.

Of course everything is connected. But you won't solve the Euro crisis by looking at the Fed.... You will have to look at Europe first.

Sorry did not see this reply earlier...

It is not like the EURO has a choice of where to look any more than anyone else.

It is all connected...hopefully for not much longer

Perhaps this explains it better...

Euro Crisis Makes Fed Lender of Only Resort as Banks Chase Dollar Funding