Phuket Hotel Ponies Up Bt200.000 To Robbed Aussie Tourists

[barmatt]

Safest way is to open a Thai bank account then transfer money from your Aust account into it and use it as a nomal account using a ATM card to withdraw money when required.....avoids all the fees you get when using your Aussie cards over there.

[Jaz744]

In October of this year, I made the mistake of leaving my passport, spare credit cards and $1000 in US currency in our room safe at our hotel in Chiang Mai, checked out and headed to Chiang Khong to visit friends. When we reached Chiangrai, my wife asked if I had my passport. Realizing my mistake, I did a quick u-turn, and headed back to Chiang Mai. My wife called the hotel, and was informed that the maid had found the items in the safe, and that the hotel had sent an e-mail to our e-mail address to inform us. After an 7 hour round trip, we arrived back at the hotel. The receptionist retrieved an envelope from the manager's office. Everything I had left in the safe was accounted for. I tipped the receptionist and was able to track down the maid who found my items and tipped her 2000 baht. I was lucky in this case, despite my carelessness. However, I have found Thais to be generally more honest than individuals I have dealt with in other countries. As for the safe, I always punch the keys with a closed ink pen or the stylus from my iPad. That way, there is no trace of which number is pressed. And generally never carry that amount of cash.

It's a well known fact that all room maids have the master combination the room safes, as in the case of this instance. Next time you're in your hotel room and the maid is outside, tell her you forgot the combination and need to get your passport.( It's far safer to leave valuables in a non-zippered, lock suitcase, than a hotel safe.) In fact, when you ask the maid to open your safe, she probably won't bother to hide the master combination from you and you can impress the friends traveling with you of your abilities to "crack" a hotel safe...... Normally it's a very simple combo..... 9999#

[HerbalEd]

Why would anyone travel with A$12,000 in cash anyway, in Thailand or in any country? I guess they don't believe in credit or debit cards.

Or it's ill-gotten gain that they cannot surface through a bank.

[foxboy]

Several posters have declared how many possible combinations there are of 4 numbers - none of which were correct, or even close to correct. Furthermore, those errors don't appear to have registered with anyone reading the posts. So much for the superior education ferangs supposedly enjoy ....

Great Post

Pity you couldn't take the time to offer the correct solution.

There are 24 permutations of four known but different numbers.

There are 12 permutations when two of the numbers are the same.

There are 4 permutations when three of the numbers are the same

There is obviously only one permutation when all the numbers are the same.

And there is only one combination of four known but different numbers.

at last, someone has it right!

However, even this is not necessary.. I could be in a room 'safe' in less than a minute without knowing any numbers.. if I can, many other people can too!

[LivinginKata]

Great Post

Pity you couldn't take the time to offer the correct solution.

There are 24 permutations of four known but different numbers.

There are 12 permutations when two of the numbers are the same.

There are 4 permutations when three of the numbers are the same

There is obviously only one permutation when all the numbers are the same.

And there is only one combination of four known but different numbers.

at last, someone has it right!

However, even this is not necessary.. I could be in a room 'safe' in less than a minute without knowing any numbers.. if I can, many other people can too!

No, I said that way way back in post #4 .... but i suppose if you are splitting hairs with duplicate numbers, and I will concede to that. The 10,000 was rediculous.

You are incorrect... there are 10,000 possible combinations when using a 4 digit code !!!!!!!

Not if you know the 4 numbers, then its factorial 4, or 24 possible combinations.

[stevenl]

No, I said that way way back in post #4 ....

No, you said combinations where it should be permutations .

Always wonder why people feel the need to make these kind of corrections.

Edited December 21, 2011 by stevenl

[LivinginKata]

No, I said that way way back in post #4 ....

No, you said combinations where it should be permutations .

Always wonder why people feel the need to make these kind of corrections.

You are 'splitting hairs' Steven.

[stevenl]

No, I said that way way back in post #4 ....

No, you said combinations where it should be permutations .

Always wonder why people feel the need to make these kind of corrections.

You are 'splitting hairs' Steven.

Yes, I know and totally agree. Hence my conclusion: "Always wonder why people feel the need to make these kind of corrections".

[Old Croc]

Its illegal by Australian law to travel with more than 10,000 aud without declaring it.

sounds fishy to me.

It's illegal for an individual to take more than AUD10,000 cash out of Australia without declaring it. It appears this was a couple, so they could take a total of $20k Oz cash between them.

If you declare it, it can be more than $10k, provided you get permission.

If you have the equivalent of > AU$10k in a mix of currencies, with not more than AUD10,000 cash, the rule does not apply. It only applies to Oz dollars cash. Furthermore, if you have access to credit/debit card accounts overseas, the amount of Australian cash you could amass would be even greater.

Wrong. All physical currency counts towards your $10,000.

From AUSTRAC website:

'Physical currency' is defined in the Anti-Money Laundering and Counter-Terrorism Financing Act 2006 (AML/CTF Act) and means the coin and printed money of Australia or a foreign country that:

•is designated as legal tender

•circulates as, and is customarily used and accepted as, a medium of exchange in the country of issue.

You don't get permission to carry your own money through borders, you just need to declare amounts above $10,000. All banks and financial institutions automatically forward reports to AUSTRAC when they do international transfers above this amount.

AUSTRAC administers the - Anti-Money Laundering and Counter-Terrorism Financing Act 2006 (AML/CTF Act)

[bridge2bridge]

Its illegal by Australian law to travel with more than 10,000 aud without declaring it.

sounds fishy to me.

How do you know they did not declare it?

[geriatrickid]

I never use hotel room safes. There is a scam used world-wide that lets hotel workers open your safe if it has numbered buttons.

They first clean all the buttons, touch their finger to the side of their nose and then rub all the buttons with this light "grease".

When the safe is used, they can see which four numbers have been used. With only four numbers, it doesn't take long for them to find the combination using trial and error.

You are incorrect... there are 10,000 possible combinations when using a 4 digit code !!!!!!!

Not if you know the 4 numbers, then its factorial 4, or 24 possible combinations.

Let's simplify, as not everyone took finite Math 020

The number is 4*3*2*1 = 24, hence 4 factorial. If there were 5 numbers in the combo, then 5*4*3*2*1 =120

[geriatrickid]

Its illegal by Australian law to travel with more than 10,000 aud without declaring it.

sounds fishy to me.

How do you know they did not declare it?

2 people can carry a combination of 12,000. LOLZ

In any case, carrying that amount of cash suggests that the revenue department may want to look at someone's tax returns.

[chooka]

Its illegal by Australian law to travel with more than 10,000 aud without declaring it.

sounds fishy to me.

How do you know they did not declare it?

2 people can carry a combination of 12,000. LOLZ

In any case, carrying that amount of cash suggests that the revenue department may want to look at someone's tax returns.

Revenue Department?? Do you mean the ATO?

[Suradit69]

If you have 4 distinct things and want to arrange all four of them in different orders without repetition, you get the figure shown in the picture below.

There are 24 ways to arrange the four things four at a time, or 4!

If it's assumed the thief correctly identified the four distinct numbers the hotel guest had used, the possibilities are similar to the above example

If the thief has to chose from four numbers that are the only possible choices, although he doesn't know if all 4 numbers were used or that there may have been repetitions of one or more of the numbers, the first number has 4 possible choices. The choices for the second number could also be any of the four numbers if we are allowing repeats and so on. 4 x 4 x 4 x 4 = 256 possibilities.

With Repetition: (a) The number of permutations (arrangements) of n different objects, taken r at a time, when each object may occur once, twice, thrice…. up to r times in any arrangement = The number of ways of filling r places where each place can be filled by any one of n objects= n^r. In this case, 4^4 = 256.

Edited December 21, 2011 by Suradit69

[djvolak]

Its illegal by Australian law to travel with more than 10,000 aud without declaring it.

sounds fishy to me.

You can enter Thailand with 20 k. They each bring 6 k and that equals 12 k all legit too. Dont sound too fishy to me but i travel regularly with cash so I do not have to give up the exchange rate to anyone but me. Not everyone who gets robbed in thailand is a scammer.

[gjoo888]

I never use hotel room safes. There is a scam used world-wide that lets hotel workers open your safe if it has numbered buttons.

They first clean all the buttons, touch their finger to the side of their nose and then rub all the buttons with this light "grease".

When the safe is used, they can see which four numbers have been used. With only four numbers, it doesn't take long for them to find the combination using trial and error.

You are incorrect... there are 10,000 possible combinations when using a 4 digit code !!!!!!!

Not if you know the 4 numbers, then its factorial 4, or 24 possible combinations.

240 if you repeat numbers

Correction, then you would only use 3 numbers......hmmm, I think I just hurt my brain.

Then why not touch all the buttons after you've closed the safe?

[anterian]

I have two accounts with the same Thai bank. One holds all my Thai money but has no ATM card. The other account has the ATM card and I just do an online fund transfer from the first account when I want to use the card. Thus even if someone cloned my card the most I could lose would be a few thousand Baht.

[jedeye]

Several posters have declared how many possible combinations there are of 4 numbers - none of which were correct, or even close to correct. Furthermore, those errors don't appear to have registered with anyone reading the posts. So much for the superior education ferangs supposedly enjoy ....

Someone did mention 24 variations on a 4 digit combination. If you take it that they're assuming 4 different numbers were used-that means each number punched only once,then 24 is correct. It's easy to work out-Lets say the numbers used are 1,2,3,4.

So......

1,2,3,4. 2,1,3,4. 3,1,2,4. 4,1,2,3.

1,2,4,3. 2,1,4,3. 3,1,4,2. 4,1,3,2.

1,3,2,4. 2,3,1,4. 3,2,1,4. 4,2,1,3.

1,3,4,2. 2,3,4,1. 3,2,4,1. 4,2,3,1.

1,4,2,3. 2,4,1,3. 3,4,1,2. 4,3,1,2.

1,4,3,2. 2,4,3,1. 3,4,2,1. 4,3,2,1.

Thats a total of 24 possible combinations.

[JAS21]

Several posters have declared how many possible combinations there are of 4 numbers - none of which were correct, or even close to correct. Furthermore, those errors don't appear to have registered with anyone reading the posts. So much for the superior education ferangs supposedly enjoy ....

Someone did mention 24 variations on a 4 digit combination. If you take it that they're assuming 4 different numbers were used-that means each number punched only once,then 24 is correct. It's easy to work out-Lets say the numbers used are 1,2,3,4.

So......

1,2,3,4. 2,1,3,4. 3,1,2,4. 4,1,2,3.

1,2,4,3. 2,1,4,3. 3,1,4,2. 4,1,3,2.

1,3,2,4. 2,3,1,4. 3,2,1,4. 4,2,1,3.

1,3,4,2. 2,3,4,1. 3,2,4,1. 4,2,3,1.

1,4,2,3. 2,4,1,3. 3,4,1,2. 4,3,1,2.

1,4,3,2. 2,4,3,1. 3,4,2,1. 4,3,2,1.

Thats a total of 24 possible combinations.

It's surprising how many hotels and hospitals install that cream coloured WORLD SAFE. Even more so many don't even bother to change the master overide combination press ** wait for SUPER to appear and the punch in a certain six figure number. When I find that they haven't changed that number I do it for them!! Of course they will always have the key to unlock it manually anyway!!

[witsawakorn]

Why would anyone travel with A$12,000 in cash anyway, in Thailand or in any country? I guess they don't believe in credit or debit cards.

There are reasons why some people might want to carry large amounts oif cash with them. Some purchases are only made in cash aren't they? It seems a lot of money to spend on living expenses in Thailand given that they are travelling as a couple. ( no bfs or salarys to pay )Or not ho ho

Its a bit odd why he didn't know exactly how much cash went missing the first time. To say about $700 means he must have counted it because who can guess that there is 700 missing from a stack of 12,000. Being prepared to write it off without reporting is interesting. (avoiding drawing attention to themselves?)

The hotel must have been very trusting to give them Baht 200,000 especially given than they had taken unregistered guests to the room. What about the CCTV in the lift? That should help identify who went onto that floor at least.

[puntmeister]

My plan going forward:

Wipe off all the numbers. Enter a code. Then apply grease to 4 numbers I did NOT use. Fingerprint the 4 unused numbers.

Not only would the would-be-thief not be able to crack the code, they would get thoroughly frustrated as well!

[tropo]

Why would anyone travel with A$12,000 in cash anyway, in Thailand or in any country? I guess they don't believe in credit or debit cards.

Australian debit and credit cards can be very expensive, especially the debit cards which mostly charge $5 (or more) for an international ATM withdrawal. Some cards don't charge this fee but most do.

Let's do the math. Most card these days charge 2 - 2.5% of the foreign transaction.'

$12,000 x 2.0% = $240 = 7440 baht

Using the most common 20,000 per pull ATM machine that's 20 pulls to withdraw the total of 387,000 baht x $5.00 = $100 = 3000 baht

Thai ATM's charge 150 baht per pull. 20 x 150 = 3000 baht.

Total cost to withdraw AUD $12,000 in Thailand 13,750 baht or AUD $443

Another consideration is that money changers in Thailand normally give much better rates than the Australian banks do. That could be worth another baht. Let's call it 0.5 baht better at money changers - that's 1.6% of $12,000 or $200 or 6000 baht.

Carrying the cash can save up to 20,000 baht or more.

Using Australian credit cards is expensive. I avoid using them unless I really have to.

Edited December 21, 2011 by tropo

[tropo]

an Australian couple who claimed their room safe was robbed of 387,000 baht.

"At first, I thought I lost about 700 Australian dollars from the $A12,000 that was in the safe,

That's when we found that $A7,500 had gone," he said.

Australian couple claim their rooms safe was robbed of 387,000 baht of AUD $12,000. Then they found only AUD $7500 gone.

What's going on here?

[jacko45k]

If the 4 greasy numbers were 2,5,6,7, for example and you allowed things like 2-2-2-2 ( which implies the finger hit three additional numbers that were not actually used), then it would by 4X4X4X4 possibilities or 256. If the finger prints were found on 4 separate numbers and none was used twice it would be 4! =4X3X2X1 = 24

Oh come on, why did they touch the other number(s) say 5, 6 and 7 then?

Might as well touch all of them and make it more difficult.

If this trick is employed in many rooms there will be a payoff at some point and a maid or maintenance guy will vanish.

There is always the possibility of the override key not being secure too.

Thanks for the headsup... I will be touching all the buttons from now on when I use an in room safe, and always 4 different numbers, I always use 1234!

[geriatrickid]

Back to the hotel. I will choose my words wisely as the "owner" is one of the largest property investors/owners on Phuket and not an entity to provoke. Questions that should be asked are as follows;

1. How many prior theft incidents have occurred?

2. What is the hotel's record in dealing with such events in the past?

3. Have there ever been any strong words exchanged between booking agencies and the hotel in respect to previous incidents?

Ideally, it would be nice if the Phuket Gazette were to ask the hotel these questions. I think that is as likely to occur as me wearing a singlet and flip flops to meet with my employer. IMO, the story is not complete.

[stevenl]

Back to the hotel. I will choose my words wisely as the "owner" is one of the largest property investors/owners on Phuket and not an entity to provoke. Questions that should be asked are as follows;

1. How many prior theft incidents have occurred?

2. What is the hotel's record in dealing with such events in the past?

3. Have there ever been any strong words exchanged between booking agencies and the hotel in respect to previous incidents?

Ideally, it would be nice if the Phuket Gazette were to ask the hotel these questions. I think that is as likely to occur as me wearing a singlet and flip flops to meet with my employer. IMO, the story is not complete.

Well, that would be journalism in stead of stroy printing. And journalism is not practised here on Phuket.

[maidu]

I heard a story, about 4 years ago, of a farang who had just checking in to his hotel room in Bkk, after first securing an in-room safe. While taking a shower, there was a knock on the door. In came 2 guys who overpowered him and forced him to open the safe. I don't know whether he pursued charges against the hotel (who almost certainly had to be in on the robbery).

I can picture the scenario. A tired solo traveler shows up - first day in Thailand. he asks about in-room safe. Gets key. As soon as he's out of sight, the clerk at the desk calls up his thug friend, "Hey, we got a fat fish just went up to room 436! "

Incidentally, I was staying at a low cost guest house in Bkk a few months ago, and it had a simple steel bok for valuables in each room. The box was toaster-size, embedded in t he wall, and had a provision on its door for the customer to put on his own padlock. I'd love to find some of those for sale, but haven't seen them anywhere (northern Thailand). Anyone know where I can buy such an item? Otherwise, I'll just get them welded by some local fellow.

[rethumper]

annoyed by ATM fees,prefer bringing aprox $4.5K us per month,>use capital one(no transaction fee)credit for apartment deposit & where credit is accepted>good someone shared the safe "nose grease"trick,in future will take precautions,been lucky so far.