Its Scary Bringing Up A Family In Thailand

Skypist · January 16, 2012

It's hard to live the dream AND put children first in Thailand unless you're quite wealthy.

Bangkok, Phuket, Hua Hin are livable with good schools but you pay a fortune. All amenities nearby (well, Hua Hin less so). Living in the countryside must set a child back in so many ways. Without the international school, a little awkward sending a mixed race boy to a purely Thai school. Maybe ok for some, but not for most. Level of pollution and childrens activities in Bangkok is so poor you can see how they grow up being materialistic.

The best option? I returned back to UK with family, fantastic government schooling on a par with 50,000 baht per term international they were in before. Great fellow children, loads of activities involving nature and things that can develop a child without costing money. Fantastic walks in the woods, farm visits, theatre trips, swimming, parks, history, views, animals. Definitely way better value for money bringing up a happy child here. If times are hard you have welfare to fall back on in between jobs if need be. No-one looks down on you thinking because you're white you should be wealthy - definitely more equality although takes a lot longer to get to know people.

Yes it's more boring for the adults, but for young children and a good standard of living while possibly saving up, it's a good option.

PattayaParent · January 16, 2012

I choose to base my home in Thailand becuase of the quality of the international school that the children are at. How many other expats choose to base themeselves here, when they have the choice, and do not have family reasons that specically dictate residence here?

SC

I'm one, although I have a fallback position in my wife's country.

PattayaParent · January 16, 2012

It's hard to live the dream AND put children first in Thailand unless you're quite wealthy.

Bangkok, Phuket, Hua Hin are livable with good schools but you pay a fortune. All amenities nearby (well, Hua Hin less so). Living in the countryside must set a child back in so many ways. Without the international school, a little awkward sending a mixed race boy to a purely Thai school. Maybe ok for some, but not for most. Level of pollution and childrens activities in Bangkok is so poor you can see how they grow up being materialistic.

The best option? I returned back to UK with family, fantastic government schooling on a par with 50,000 baht per term international they were in before. Great fellow children, loads of activities involving nature and things that can develop a child without costing money. Fantastic walks in the woods, farm visits, theatre trips, swimming, parks, history, views, animals. Definitely way better value for money bringing up a happy child here. If times are hard you have welfare to fall back on in between jobs if need be. No-one looks down on you thinking because you're white you should be wealthy - definitely more equality although takes a lot longer to get to know people.

Yes it's more boring for the adults, but for young children and a good standard of living while possibly saving up, it's a good option.

It only doesn't cost money if you are on the dole.

If you are working then you're paying taxes which would be more than the cost of international school here unless you're in a low paid job.

(as for fantastic government schooling, that's a different debate!)

Ulysses G. · January 16, 2012

What real reasons are there for this attitude? I often feel I live in a different Thailand than some people and I dont get these negative feelings.

What attitude? I love living in Thailand and am usually accused of wearing "rose colored glasses". However, I am not a citizen and I do not think that it is impossible that foreigners will eventually find it very difficult to get long-term visas here unless they are wealthy.

Livinginexile · January 16, 2012

Thank God I do not have a family. It is worrisome enough trying to figure out how long the Thais will put up with us without having to worry about a wife and children. I do not envy you family guys as far as all the responsibility.

Wives and children tend have Thai nationality. So not much of an issue.

Interesting OP.. I'm in the opposite position: living with wonderful wife and two children in Chiang Mai, but not making the money I would make working almost anywhere else.. Maybe we can swap. What line of work are you in?

Many good replies on this thread, it's good to read that I'm not alone on this issue.

I am an MEP construction/commissioning manager working for an International MEP company. My current project is the Vattanac Tower in Phnom Phen.

Although I am only 1 hours flight from Thailand I can never get the time even for a weekend visit, that's the nature of construction.

thehelmsman · January 16, 2012

Leaving home for extended periods of time to provide for the family has been going on for a very long time. I'm in the Maritime Industry so this simply comes natural. Workers in the Gulf regions and elsewhere who come from India, Pakistan and Phillippines usually sign 2 yr. contracts. They consider me lucky for only working 4 month contracts. So, I'm gone a total of 6 months before returning to my lady and daughter for 2 months.

I don't like it. I could stop working and live from a few investments. But, by working I guarentee money for a nice life for my daughter. So to the OP I say not to feel guilty for being away and to be proud you're a good provider for your family. While it's not perfect being away, having jingle in your pocket is nice. Man does not live on stickey rice alone.

samran · January 16, 2012

What real reasons are there for this attitude? I often feel I live in a different Thailand than some people and I dont get these negative feelings.

What attitude? I love living in Thailand and am usually accused of wearing "rose colored glasses". However, I am not a citizen and I do not think that it is impossible that foreigners will eventually find it very difficult to get long-term visas here unless they are wealthy.

I just don't believe that. I know too many bog standard average foreigners who've easily gotten PR and citizenship. None of them are wealthy at all.

To be honest, and maybe it is just me, but I'm a bit sick and tired of this myth - that you have to be well off and have connections - being bandied around as fact. I challenge anyone to say that the rules to get PR or eventually citizenship are onerous.

Fact of the matter is when my wife's Thai citizenship application was submitted, though we could have lined up some big guns to get us through the process, we were advised against it by the police at the special branch, and as it turned out, her eligibility was assesed (and approved) with little regard to wealth or status.

GuestHouse · January 16, 2012

Thank God I do not have a family. It is worrisome enough trying to figure out how long the Thais will put up with us without having to worry about a wife and children. I do not envy you family guys as far as all the responsibility.

Yes, thank god you don't have a family.

letitbe · January 16, 2012

im confused ive lived here 16+ years with my thai family no problem at all 2 kids lovely wife and all of that. What do you do and I suppose your younger. Ive never had a problem getting my visa each year. Ok im on a retirement visa but could have got a marriage visa any time just decided not to bother. So whats problem is it your to young or not properly married or cant get 400,000 baht needed. If you cant you must have a shitty job. If your not properly married why not. If you are you have choices amongst which is if your worried here jut move your family back home get a job there and dont tell me you cant thats BS.

Problem is that when your in you early 40's or younger you must keep working. Just to put food on the table and to ensure you have the financial means to educate your kids and to be able to retire some day in the future. Visas's i'd not worry, the present arrangement is pretty good and i don't see any issues in the future providing you keep yourself legit and have enough to support yourself and your family.

I'm not offshore but do project work with flight back home every 4 months paid by employer. So i'd take 6 weeks on / 3 weeks off any day. With kids i find it very hard, it eats you up when you can not be with your family. And the funny thing is there is no way out of it on my line of work. I could set something up on my own but i still would need to travel after the projects which are never long enough to justify taking your family with you.

So it leaves me with only one option, to keep looking employment in Thailand that both pays enough and is challenging enough to justify the change from my present employment.

I understand some doesn't desire the family life and responsibilities but still i'd not change a day out of my life so far even if it is not easy sometimes.

stop wining what do you want someone else to support you. when I was young I worked 16 hours a day had to work away from my family for long periods and although I always tried to see then once a month I did it for financial security and to provide for my first 3 children and their future and mine. IT was not easy but its a choice I made. I could have got a steady job close to home and not been able to give my family what I wanted to give them but it was my choice as it is ops. He should be thankful he has a decent job and can provide well for his family. The Op decided to have a family no one forced him and many would give their eye teeth for what he has. No one forced me at a late age to have a new family and 2 more kids and I definitely would not have done it if I could not support it and also had enough at a late age to make sure they could have a decent income if I died. What sympathy does he expect we all have a free will and if we want can usually control our lives. All make choices. When I was younger work colleagues would moan that I was paid much more and when I said well you can do same the answer always was but we have kids and so cant to which I said so have I. My advice stands get on with it save or if you cant get a decent job here move to where you can with your family. Dont give me BS but its all I can do thats just an excuse for not doing. I had many many different jobs in my life building contractor, teacher, scientist, shop keeper, jewellery dealer and more. Sometimes I was aways for long periods, sometimes when I was younger we were almost totally broke. I know a lot of people here in Op's position mostly offshore workers who also moan like mad but refuse to give up their huge salaries to be able to be with their families. Well thats their choice ands most of then are spending all their huge salaries on Toys and high living instead of saving for day which might come or saving so they can retire earlier to be with their families.

bonobo · January 16, 2012

I was in the military, and that entailed spending pretty big chunks of time away from home (up to a year, in my case.) I chose that route for various reasons, but eventual financial security was certainly one of them.

Whether those long periods of time contributed to my divorce, who knows? Probably. But certainly, I think most people would say that being away from home causes relationship stress. If you are childless, I think it is easier, but if you have kids, knowing that you are missing the first steps, teaching your kid how to play ball, birthday parties, etc., well that is a touch decision. Is it more important to provide well for your kids, to make sure they live well, or to be there when they lose their first tooth?

That is a personal decision that each person has to make.

lapoon · January 16, 2012

What real reasons are there for this attitude? I often feel I live in a different Thailand than some people and I dont get these negative feelings.

What attitude? I love living in Thailand and am usually accused of wearing "rose colored glasses". However, I am not a citizen and I do not think that it is impossible that foreigners will eventually find it very difficult to get long-term visas here unless they are wealthy.

Sorry if you misinterpreted, I asked as you seem an established poster who is well settled here,not to be rude to you.

The biggest regret in life for me was that my work did not allow me to be with my children in their formative years, this is a thing that is related to work, not necessarily about living in Thailand,

This is what the original post was about but as usual it turns to a Thais dont like us thing. Thats the attitude I dont seem to have directed at me.

GooEng · January 16, 2012

im confused ive lived here 16+ years with my thai family no problem at all 2 kids lovely wife and all of that. What do you do and I suppose your younger. Ive never had a problem getting my visa each year. Ok im on a retirement visa but could have got a marriage visa any time just decided not to bother. So whats problem is it your to young or not properly married or cant get 400,000 baht needed. If you cant you must have a shitty job. If your not properly married why not. If you are you have choices amongst which is if your worried here jut move your family back home get a job there and dont tell me you cant thats BS.

where's the unlike button george?

Edited January 16, 2012 by GooEng

rgs2001uk · January 16, 2012

Well thats their choice ands most of then are spending all their huge salaries on Toys and high living instead of saving for day which might come or saving so they can retire earlier to be with their families.

I know of cases where the wife doesnt want the guy to stop working, not prepared to give up the good life.

The toys, include mansions in Issan, new pick ups, toys for the extended family, a generous allownace of. in some cases 75 k per month, taking the whole extended family on holiday to, insert choice, wining and dining them for 2 weeks at a time.

One guy I know was sending his mrs 45k or $1,000 per month, exchange rate drops to 30 to the $, mrs still wants her 45k per month, poor sap has to find an extra $500 per month.

These guys will never make it over here for the simple reason they will never save enough to finance their retirement.

Watched a guy the other week throwing 1,000 baht notes around in Pattaya as if they were "Mickey Mouse money", a recently divorced guy from the Uk, mid fifties, been in Thailand three times and is now an expert on all things Thai, new tee rak in tow, she lub him loooong time.

Keep sending the money, love you no shit.

ludditeman · January 16, 2012

Well thats their choice ands most of then are spending all their huge salaries on Toys and high living instead of saving for day which might come or saving so they can retire earlier to be with their families.

I know of cases where the wife doesnt want the guy to stop working, not prepared to give up the good life.

I often suspected it was more, not wanting to give up the Thai husband/boyfriend.

zzaa09 · January 16, 2012

....not wanting to give up the Thai husband/boyfriend.

Naturally, because the Thai guys have such a long reputation of treating them so welll.

PattayaParent · January 16, 2012

Many good replies on this thread, it's good to read that I'm not alone on this issue.

I am an MEP construction/commissioning manager working for an International MEP company. My current project is the Vattanac Tower in Phnom Phen.

Although I am only 1 hours flight from Thailand I can never get the time even for a weekend visit, that's the nature of construction.

Can't you make an agreement with your company to pick and choose your work? Say do 2 x 4 month stints somewhere each year and take the rest of the time with the family, or 1 x 6 month?

I realise commissioning may take longer than originally scheduled though.

billd766 · January 16, 2012

I started out doing offshore work in 1991 and at that time I was married to a UK lady and our son was 13.

I used to go on contract with my company but came back 3 times a year, for my son's birthday, summer holidays and the Xmas + New Year as well.

Most of the jobs were 3 to 6 months and when I finally went expat with my company my son was getting close to exams in the UK and it wouldn't have been fair to bring him out.

That marriage failed because of me and when it crashed our son was 19.

I married my Thai lady in 2000 a year after my decree absolute and she knew what my job was then and I still carried on for about 6 months of the year and lived in Thailand the rest of the time.

In 2004 our Thai son came along completely unexpected but welcomed and cherished all the same.

I still worked offshore parts of the year until I retired back in 2009 and I haven't been out of Thailand since.

I love and missed my son when I was offshore but for the first couple of years when he was a baby it wasn't a problem but after that I used to ring home twice a week and most jobs were 2 months on then a visa run for a few days. My last job was in New Zealand when I did 6 months on, 2 weekis off and the last 6 months before I retired.

When you children are young it is hard not to be with them and both watch and help them grow, but after 12 or 13 they have their own lives and rely less on you. They may also appear not to care about you so much but they do care usually.

Now of course that I am retired I am always here for my son and it is a delight to watch him grow.

To the OP, yes it is hard to be in your position and perhaps at some point in time you will have to choose what you want to do but until that time just keeps plodding on making money as the world is not that nice a place for someone with no job, no money and no prospects in any country in the world.

And don't worry to much as it will get better.

Livinginexile · January 16, 2012

I started out doing offshore work in 1991 and at that time I was married to a UK lady and our son was 13.

I used to go on contract with my company but came back 3 times a year, for my son's birthday, summer holidays and the Xmas + New Year as well.

Most of the jobs were 3 to 6 months and when I finally went expat with my company my son was getting close to exams in the UK and it wouldn't have been fair to bring him out.

That marriage failed because of me and when it crashed our son was 19.

I married my Thai lady in 2000 a year after my decree absolute and she knew what my job was then and I still carried on for about 6 months of the year and lived in Thailand the rest of the time.

In 2004 our Thai son came along completely unexpected but welcomed and cherished all the same.

I still worked offshore parts of the year until I retired back in 2009 and I haven't been out of Thailand since.

I love and missed my son when I was offshore but for the first couple of years when he was a baby it wasn't a problem but after that I used to ring home twice a week and most jobs were 2 months on then a visa run for a few days. My last job was in New Zealand when I did 6 months on, 2 weekis off and the last 6 months before I retired.

When you children are young it is hard not to be with them and both watch and help them grow, but after 12 or 13 they have their own lives and rely less on you. They may also appear not to care about you so much but they do care usually.

Now of course that I am retired I am always here for my son and it is a delight to watch him grow.

To the OP, yes it is hard to be in your position and perhaps at some point in time you will have to choose what you want to do but until that time just keeps plodding on making money as the world is not that nice a place for someone with no job, no money and no prospects in any country in the world.

And don't worry to much as it will get better.

Hi Bill,

Thanks so much for your reply, you obviously know exactly what I am taking about.

I work in construction and there are no "4 week on - 2 week off" type contracts. When you sign up it's for the duration of the project.

My last 3 projects have been back-to-back with no break in between. Like i said, I used to bring my family with me but now my son needs routine now he's started school full time.

My past has a big part to play, I was very much an absant Dad in my last marrage but this time around I know from personal experience the consequences of what being from your kids too much when they are young. I do not want to make the same mistake. Besides, I miss them both terribly when I am away.

But alas you are right, to support a family in Thailand takes money, a lot of it if I want my son to have a good education and a good life for my family so I will plod on.

I wish someone would just give me a million quid but then again, that probably wouldn't be enough either

Forethat · January 16, 2012

I get somewhat amazed when I read posts like this, especially following articles awarding Bangkok and Thailand as one of the cheapest cities and countries to live in, respectively. Of course, this is utter <deleted>, unless you're prepared to live in a concrete bare studio without windows and flush your toilet by scoping water into it. There is, of course, the occasional clown giving you the advice to hire a linguistic gardener to make the German ride cheaper (yea yea yea, I know it's an oldie, but it proves my point - some people have no freaking clue what they are talking about).

I can relate to the problems the OP is facing, but part of the problem is that he appears the be weighing these issues against a romantic dream to make things work for him here. The truth is that not many people want us here, even though most of us choose to believE that's not the case, and this will result in a situation where the financial options are slim - again, this is part of our defensive instinct to fence of anyone who threatens to shatter our dreams.

I am positive there are things in this country worth fighting for, the family certainly being one of them, but fighting for your existence in a specific place may not be the best for your family if money is an issue, unless you are prepared to change your situation drastically. If you have concerns about money and your retirement plan, then you need to change this NOW, otherwise this will likely jump up and bite you in the future. Whether you opt to move somewhere else or increase your income is not the issue, but it sure has to be done. The problem is that Thailand is very effective in its way to limit the opportunities for foreigners. They don't want us here, period.

The alternative, of course, is to downgrade your dream and do exactly what you suggested, accept that your dream has been downgraded to living on rice that you grew yourself in a country where almost no one want you to stay, and then watch your kids grow up in an educational system that will make them wonder if we have a moon in Europe as well. That is, if they know what Europe - or a moon - IS.

So yes, I agree, this place is nothing but scary.

True dread.

Edited January 16, 2012 by Forethat

F1fanatic · January 16, 2012

What real reasons are there for this attitude? I often feel I live in a different Thailand than some people and I dont get these negative feelings.

What attitude? I love living in Thailand and am usually accused of wearing "rose colored glasses". However, I am not a citizen and I do not think that it is impossible that foreigners will eventually find it very difficult to get long-term visas here unless they are wealthy.

I just don't believe that. I know too many bog standard average foreigners who've easily gotten PR and citizenship. None of them are wealthy at all.

To be honest, and maybe it is just me, but I'm a bit sick and tired of this myth - that you have to be well off and have connections - being bandied around as fact. I challenge anyone to say that the rules to get PR or eventually citizenship are onerous.

Fact of the matter is when my wife's Thai citizenship application was submitted, though we could have lined up some big guns to get us through the process, we were advised against it by the police at the special branch, and as it turned out, her eligibility was assesed (and approved) with little regard to wealth or status.

I'm impressed as - as far as I can make out - foreigners being awarded Thai citizenship is less than 40 per year? Yet you know "too many"!

Few of the rest of us know ANYBODY (personally) that have been lucky enough to gain citizenship.

samran · January 16, 2012

^^

Off the top of my head I've come across at least dozen PR's and six or eight westerners naturalised as Thai's. And I don't even get out much.

The predictable retort of course is that isn't many, to which I'd reply that not many bother to apply. Many as they don't want it/need it, but the same amount again who think that it is just 'all too hard'. The thing is though, if you are working in a half decent job, it isn't.

PattayaParent · January 16, 2012

Hi Bill,

Thanks so much for your reply, you obviously know exactly what I am taking about.

I work in construction and there are no "4 week on - 2 week off" type contracts. When you sign up it's for the duration of the project.

My last 3 projects have been back-to-back with no break in between. Like i said, I used to bring my family with me but now my son needs routine now he's started school full time.

My past has a big part to play, I was very much an absant Dad in my last marrage but this time around I know from personal experience the consequences of what being from your kids too much when they are young. I do not want to make the same mistake. Besides, I miss them both terribly when I am away.

But alas you are right, to support a family in Thailand takes money, a lot of it if I want my son to have a good education and a good life for my family so I will plod on.

I wish someone would just give me a million quid but then again, that probably wouldn't be enough either

Libya used to be 6 and 2 or 3 (weeks)

Kazakhstan has 28 and 28 (days) at the moment. Angola too and Nigeria.

You last 3 projects have been over what time scale? 1 year each? 3 or 4 months each?

If they're short stints then talk to your company about skipping one. Or go freelance and do contract work you can pick and choose yourself as to when and where you go.

I've gone the opposite way, from being single doing contract work, to having a family and being permanent but on family status.

Edited January 16, 2012 by PattayaParent

chops · January 16, 2012

Luckily I don't have to travel around to make money. I can wake up, log into my websites and I just find piles of cash in there. One of the fringe benefits on earning money online I guess...

BookMan · January 16, 2012

Luckily I don't have to travel around to make money. I can wake up, log into my websites and I just find piles of cash in there. One of the fringe benefits on earning money online I guess...

Living the dream, sounds good!

Livinginexile · January 16, 2012

Luckily I don't have to travel around to make money. I can wake up, log into my websites and I just find piles of cash in there. One of the fringe benefits on earning money online I guess...

Really?!

Just two months ago you were looking for a cheap apartment to move into for under 2k bht/mth!

"I Need A Cheap Room2-3k, wifi, & close to store"

What exactly is your idea of "piles of cash"?

Forethat · January 16, 2012

Luckily I don't have to travel around to make money. I can wake up, log into my websites and I just find piles of cash in there. One of the fringe benefits on earning money online I guess...

Really?!

Just two months ago you were looking for a cheap apartment to move into for under 2k bht/mth!

"I Need A Cheap Room2-3k, wifi, & close to store"

What exactly is your idea of "piles of cash"?

You know what they say..."a liar should have a good memory"

DiamondKing · January 16, 2012

2 words solves all these woes

The Internet

Learn how to make money online, and once you do, you can do what i do which is spend 24/7 with my kids and family without worrying about income. the OP sounds like he has a great paying job but I wonder where his money is going if he lives on a farm and is self sufficient.

How much do you really need to live comfortably here

DK

DiamondKing · January 16, 2012

Luckily I don't have to travel around to make money. I can wake up, log into my websites and I just find piles of cash in there. One of the fringe benefits on earning money online I guess...

Really?!

Just two months ago you were looking for a cheap apartment to move into for under 2k bht/mth!

"I Need A Cheap Room2-3k, wifi, & close to store"

What exactly is your idea of "piles of cash"?

400K baht

Hooters · January 16, 2012

Luckily I don't have to travel around to make money. I can wake up, log into my websites and I just find piles of cash in there. One of the fringe benefits on earning money online I guess...

Really?!

Just two months ago you were looking for a cheap apartment to move into for under 2k bht/mth!

"I Need A Cheap Room2-3k, wifi, & close to store"

What exactly is your idea of "piles of cash"?

You know what they say..."a liar should have a good memory"

Busted! this my friends is why you never take to seriously what is written in annoymous forums

Back to the OP, why not take the family back home? every country needs construction men.

Dropping out and trying to scratch a living in Thailand will create grief. Nearly all family problems revolve around lack of money

Ulysses G. · January 16, 2012

What real reasons are there for this attitude? I often feel I live in a different Thailand than some people and I dont get these negative feelings.

What attitude? I love living in Thailand and am usually accused of wearing "rose colored glasses". However, I am not a citizen and I do not think that it is impossible that foreigners will eventually find it very difficult to get long-term visas here unless they are wealthy.

I just don't believe that. I know too many bog standard average foreigners who've easily gotten PR and citizenship. None of them are wealthy at all.

To be honest, and maybe it is just me, but I'm a bit sick and tired of this myth - that you have to be well off and have connections - being bandied around as fact. I challenge anyone to say that the rules to get PR or eventually citizenship are onerous.

Fact of the matter is when my wife's Thai citizenship application was submitted, though we could have lined up some big guns to get us through the process, we were advised against it by the police at the special branch, and as it turned out, her eligibility was assesed (and approved) with little regard to wealth or status.

I'm impressed as - as far as I can make out - foreigners being awarded Thai citizenship is less than 40 per year? Yet you know "too many"!

Few of the rest of us know ANYBODY (personally) that have been lucky enough to gain citizenship.

I have been here more than 20 years and only know one Westerner who has gotten Thai citizenship. I did recently meet a cousin of mine who has PR, but he has been teaching in Bangkok Universities since 1963 and has a lot of connections with the Bangkok Elite.

Edited January 16, 2012 by Ulysses G.

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