Discrimination

[geriatrickid]

YOU ARE JUST A FALANG

Your wife's statement is quite prophetic.

Is the house and business in her name?

If she's smart, she'd have insisted on it. Farang males are not to be trusted. I read it on TVF, on the threads about giks and mia nois and all that good stuff, the foreign males brag about.

[Langsuan Man]

The dog crapping is not the racist part of the OP's post. It his wife's comments that illustrate the inherent racism that Thais have against us foreigners.

I recently had a theft of a main electric cable from the construction site where I am building a house. They actually dug up the buried wire from where the wire was supposed to connect to the mains all the way back to the house entry point. And then came back a couple of nights later to get about 6 feet that they left the first time.

I of course wanted to report the theft to the police, not expecting any resolution, but just to let those other workers in the adjoining work sites know that the the police were involved. But my current TG refused to let me go or assist me in going to the police station to make a report because I was a farang.

She said it would be OK for a Thai to report the theft but not me

Edited January 17, 2012 by Langsuan Man

[Berkshire]

Responding to the OP, the idea of comparing the farang experience in Thailand to the REAL racism that African-Americans dealt with back in the day is patently absurd. There is no comparison.

Must be really terrible being the elected president of the USA.....

Are you an American? Surely you know what went on "back in the day."

[Berkshire]

If, as some suggest, being white-skinned/Caucasian in Thailand elevates one closer to the upper echelons of society, then I guess - being a black man - I should expect to be condemned to its nether regions. Strangely, though, during my four years here, I've been treated with respect and kindness by Thais 90% of the time.

Your expectations are low, if you are happy being treated badly 10% of the time.

Are you suggesting that you get treated with respect and kindness 100% of the time? No one gets that anywhere and I'd be shocked if you even get it 90% here in Thailand. So Mr. Hardened Soul is doing pretty well in my book.

[samran]

The dog crapping is not the racist part of the OP's post. It his wife's comments that illustrate the inherent racism that Thais have against us foreigners.

I recently had a theft of a main electric cable from the construction site where I am building a house. They actually dug up the buried wire from where the wire was supposed to connect to the mains all the way back to the house entry point. And then came back a couple of nights later to get about 6 feet that they left the first time.

I of course wanted to report the theft to the police, not expecting any resolution, but just to let those other workers in the adjoining work sites know that the the police were involved. But my current TG refused to let me go or assist me in going to the police station to make a report because I was a farang.

She said it would be OK for a Thai to report the theft but not me

And you believed her?

[Berkshire]

The dog crapping is not the racist part of the OP's post. It his wife's comments that illustrate the inherent racism that Thais have against us foreigners.

I recently had a theft of a main electric cable from the construction site where I am building a house. They actually dug up the buried wire from where the wire was supposed to connect to the mains all the way back to the house entry point. And then came back a couple of nights later to get about 6 feet that they left the first time.

I of course wanted to report the theft to the police, not expecting any resolution, but just to let those other workers in the adjoining work sites know that the the police were involved. But my current TG refused to let me go or assist me in going to the police station to make a report because I was a farang.

She said it would be OK for a Thai to report the theft but not me

And you believed her?

It seems like many of these Thai wives have their farangs on a rather short leash.

[Heng]

The themes are the same, but the mass and depth of the falang "struggle" + chip on their shoulder compared to the African American struggle/chip is like comparing the mass of the Earth to the mass of the sun. Falangs here don't live with the weight on their should that the most successful black civilization on the planet is the one descended from slaves with adopted surnames of their previous owners, even hundreds of years later, it's obvious that many still can't shake that stigma. Cops don't pull over falangs over because they think they likely have narcotics in the car. They don't pull over well to do falangs over because they surely must be slightly more organized with their narcotics and are higher-up-the-ladder drug dealers.

[zzaa09]

The dog crapping is not the racist part of the OP's post. It his wife's comments that illustrate the inherent racism that Thais have against us foreigners.

I recently had a theft of a main electric cable from the construction site where I am building a house. They actually dug up the buried wire from where the wire was supposed to connect to the mains all the way back to the house entry point. And then came back a couple of nights later to get about 6 feet that they left the first time.

I of course wanted to report the theft to the police, not expecting any resolution, but just to let those other workers in the adjoining work sites know that the the police were involved. But my current TG refused to let me go or assist me in going to the police station to make a report because I was a farang.

She said it would be OK for a Thai to report the theft but not me

And you believed her?

It seems like many of these Thai wives have their farangs on a rather short leash.

Respect has to be earned. Doesn't automatically come with the job.

[ravip]

ou hit the nail right on the head! Thank you...... as 'non-whites we tend to have spent most of our lives on the side being on the receiving end of racism. So, I think we are still very sensitive to it…. But, it seems things are changing. So who has the right to be a racist?

Nobody has the right to be a racist.

Just because you suffered it, doesn't mean anyone else should.

"Just because you suffered it, doesn't mean anyone else should."

Reading many forums...it seems I am not the ONLY one who suffered it or is still suffering!!!

Nobody has the right to be a racist. (In a perfect world)

[travelmann]

If I caught you hosing my dog down under the same circumstances I would have punched you right in the nose!

It's a dog! an animal with no social graces! if you don't want stray dogs on your wifes property then keep the godamn gate shut!

I think you got off lightly

Id have used a Fuc***g great stick and beaten it to death, I dont recollect it being a "stray" dog as it had an "owner"

Thats me though caring and considerate

Have you prepaid your funeral expenses?

Has the dog owner?, what make u think Im gonna die Gk

[travelmann]

The dog crapping is not the racist part of the OP's post. It his wife's comments that illustrate the inherent racism that Thais have against us foreigners.

I recently had a theft of a main electric cable from the construction site where I am building a house. They actually dug up the buried wire from where the wire was supposed to connect to the mains all the way back to the house entry point. And then came back a couple of nights later to get about 6 feet that they left the first time.

I of course wanted to report the theft to the police, not expecting any resolution, but just to let those other workers in the adjoining work sites know that the the police were involved. But my current TG refused to let me go or assist me in going to the police station to make a report because I was a farang.

She said it would be OK for a Thai to report the theft but not me

A simple mistake, next time connect cable to mains first, you should be able to find the thief still attached and smouldering to it the next morning

[thaihome]

...It is an observation of fact, not an emotional opinion piece. ...

That you can make this statement about your OP with a straight face pretty much sums up your mind-set.

TH

[Sing_Sling]

The dog crapping is not the racist part of the OP's post. It his wife's comments that illustrate the inherent racism that Thais have against us foreigners.

Indeed, why would anyone be married to a person who inherently has these beliefs . . . ah, the power of baht.

She said it would be OK for a Thai to report the theft but not me

Well, she is Thai, so why doesn't she report it or does she enjoy the fact that you are seen as a gimp whom anyone can steal from?

[theblether]

It seems to be the case ( unfortunately ) that you are a second class citizen in your own home, mend that first. It is also the case that the maojority of things that you have complained about are correct, especially the house ownership situation.

So that begs a question......if you knew you couldnt own it why did you buy it?

[Berkshire]

She said it would be OK for a Thai to report the theft but not me

Well, she is Thai, so why doesn't she report it or does she enjoy the fact that you are seen as a gimp whom anyone can steal from?

Gimp? Good one. Pulp Fiction...."Bring out the gimp!" Bwahahahaha...

[Briggsy]

As I mentioned earlier in this thread, this is not really about discrimination but a whole lot more about inability to access the informal network that allows one to get things done here.

[buggerlugs]

To OP,

Of course we are second class citizens. Get used to it or move somewhere else.

A dog is a dumb animal, Their behaviour reflects their owner. Owning a dog is a responsibility, a foreign concept to Thais.

Keep your gate shut .

As a dog owner and lover (in the purest way) I would still have kicked it in the arse if I had seen it crapping on my doorstep even though I knew it wasn't to blame.... It might think twice about doing it again.

If my missus had have caught it she would have kicked the the little s**t twice as hard, saying sorry sorry sorry while she did it, but quite happily cut off the balls of the owner if he objected!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Maybe i am lucky. My Thai neighbours are friendly, respectful and take care of their animals and kids.

The only problem I have had with dogs crapping where it's not wanted is tiny dogs belonging to falang neighbours with enormous turds. (only until the missus had a quiet few words though ;-)

[thaibeachlovers]

<I would be better placed in this society if I was a pauper recently arrived from Burma with a dozen equally poor relatives, all of whom will be, for a time at least, a drain on the Thai economy.>

Back 'ome when I was merely a white, middle class "worker" without any "status" I was a nothing, treated like cr_p by management, exploited by the IRS and ignored by the politicians ( wrong colour) . However, had I been an unemployed single parent I would have been livin' it large at the expense of those like me that went out to work for little enough.

Life is unfair, and there's not a lot that you can do about it, except suck it in and move on.

[thaibeachlovers]

PS my ( Thai wife ) hates other people's dogs crapping anywhere near her property, and has a slingshot with stones in the event that one is foolish enough to try. She also uses firecrackers.

However, she hates it when I make a scene about bad ( Thai ) service etc, preferring me to keep mum.

Most of the Thai women I have known are the same way. One wouldn't even let me send water back in an hotel, despite it having black "things" in it!

[thaibeachlovers]

I am an Asian. This topic made me sit up! Hence, I would like to comment on it - please do not get me wrong, but correct me if I am wrong...

"being culled because of the threat they pose to tourists"

What about the animal lovers associations etc...???

Some countries "cull" humans as that species are a threat to those countries.

Yeah thais are racist. Move on.

Really? Can a normal Thai (or any other citizen from an "undeveloped country") travel freely around the world? Are visas given over the counter? Where?

We are guests here and always will be.

Only in Thailand? Other countries make foreigners feel at home? With all perks...

Poisoned fresh meat works much better.

Is this done "Internationally"? An accepted practice? Really?

It would be a start if the white folks would get it straight in their own minds: Does their white skin propel them towards the top of Thailand's social strata or does it make them a target for "racism"?

Pray,tell us... Where would our Black, Yellow, Brown or what ever color skin propel us to in your "white folks" countries?

Yes.... we all are the same. When it happens to "ME" it is wrong. Strange... so many many complaints about Thailand and yet so many people are dying to go there... and once we are there, should Thailand change to satisfy us?

Is the rest of the world worse, that so many "foreigners" are choosing Thailand with all its "FAULTS" to settle down?

Who should Thailand satisfy - Foreigners or their citizens?

I feel there is something radically wrong somewhere... (or maybe it is only me)

Really.. who is the worst racist???

Other countries make foreigners feel at home? With all perks...

The UK loves to make foreigners feel at home with all the perks- I know, I was there.

[Willeyeam]

Of course Thais are not racists, it is just "Thainess" and Farangs simply cannot understand their overwhelming brain capacity and their amazing logic, they are higher beings, as a Farang, never question their apparent stupidity, it is all to do with Kahma -

By the way if a wayward dog/Thai shits or even comes into my place it gets an 8mm steel BB up its arse, believe me, they don't come back! (Believe me - I have had a few dogs/Thais that have tried their luck at eithier Shitting me or robbing me.

[David48]

I honestly did not expect too much of a result with business owner v Issan lady.

A 'dingo' vs. Issan lady ... maybe not best to do anything (in the future) which gives her the sh*its either!

...

Edited January 19, 2012 by David48

[ravip]

I am an Asian. This topic made me sit up! Hence, I would like to comment on it - please do not get me wrong, but correct me if I am wrong...

"being culled because of the threat they pose to tourists"

What about the animal lovers associations etc...???

Some countries "cull" humans as that species are a threat to those countries.

Yeah thais are racist. Move on.

Really? Can a normal Thai (or any other citizen from an "undeveloped country") travel freely around the world? Are visas given over the counter? Where?

We are guests here and always will be.

Only in Thailand? Other countries make foreigners feel at home? With all perks...

Poisoned fresh meat works much better.

Is this done "Internationally"? An accepted practice? Really?

It would be a start if the white folks would get it straight in their own minds: Does their white skin propel them towards the top of Thailand's social strata or does it make them a target for "racism"?

Pray,tell us... Where would our Black, Yellow, Brown or what ever color skin propel us to in your "white folks" countries?

Yes.... we all are the same. When it happens to "ME" it is wrong. Strange... so many many complaints about Thailand and yet so many people are dying to go there... and once we are there, should Thailand change to satisfy us?

Is the rest of the world worse, that so many "foreigners" are choosing Thailand with all its "FAULTS" to settle down?

Who should Thailand satisfy - Foreigners or their citizens?

I feel there is something radically wrong somewhere... (or maybe it is only me)

Really.. who is the worst racist???

Other countries make foreigners feel at home? With all perks...

The UK loves to make foreigners feel at home with all the perks- I know, I was there.

Very glad to hear that, indeed.

Did about 5 or 6 short visits couple of years back. Never for a long stay. Knowing the present visa procedure, would never dream of a visit in the foreseeable future.

[xthAi76s]

The themes are the same, but the mass and depth of the falang "struggle" + chip on their shoulder compared to the African American struggle/chip is like comparing the mass of the Earth to the mass of the sun. Falangs here don't live with the weight on their should that the most successful black civilization on the planet is the one descended from slaves with adopted surnames of their previous owners, even hundreds of years later, it's obvious that many still can't shake that stigma. Cops don't pull over falangs over because they think they likely have narcotics in the car. They don't pull over well to do falangs over because they surely must be slightly more organized with their narcotics and are higher-up-the-ladder drug dealers.

Ahhhh, yes. This is a sensible comment.

While I agree with most of what's being said, the OP comparing his 'plight' to that of Black America, Irish America (in the last century), Native American America (before), Jewish America, Jewish Europe, etc etc etc, is not appropriate.

But, yes, Thais care more for their own than they do for outsiders (generally).

I am not aware of of a single country known to have no racism within the general population. You even get it heavy in Japan, of all places.

Human trait.

Best advice to the OP is to just really learn to ignore it and, like his wife said, worry only about the people who matter to him most. That is how to survive and even thrive as an immigrant.

I would imagine that if any of us had ancestors (white, black, asian, etc) who emigrated to another country, they'd have many similar stories of frustration. Being an immigrant is NOT easy, and causes some of us to reflect on what it must have been like in the past for our ancestors who likely had even fewer protections and such ... EDIT: AND who were often poor and fleeing some kind of adversity in their home countries. Many of us come here to Thailand certainly not under the same stressful, dire situation.

Edited January 19, 2012 by ThailandMan

[DLock]

I do smile at all the people who accept racism and advise to "move on". Yeah...that helps.

You don't have to be rude or physical at being treated badly, but I would never just "move on".

Stand up for yourself people. Everyone should be treated equally regardless.

As far as my wife saying "Up to me" or "You think too mutt"...I would definitely move on in that situation....on to another wife. I don't accept barspeak.

...and that dog, it would have taken a stick to the head...and the Owner would have picked up the shit and put it in his pocket voluntarily.

[rijb]

Cough! Stop blowin' smoke about hurting the dog or chastising the owner. We already have too much smoke this time of the year.

[zzaa09]

It seems like Thai dogs don't respect white privilege. They'll learn the error of their ways when they end up on a Vietnamese dinner table!

Yes...white priviledge. And it's unkempt cousin - white superiority.

[rijb]

It seems like Thai dogs don't respect white privilege. They'll learn the error of their ways when they end up on a Vietnamese dinner table!

Yes...white priviledge. And it's unkempt cousin - white superiority.

People who have privilege are not very good at seeing privilege.

[xthAi76s]

I do smile at all the people who accept racism and advise to "move on". Yeah...that helps.

You don't have to be rude or physical at being treated badly, but I would never just "move on".

Stand up for yourself people. Everyone should be treated equally regardless.

As far as my wife saying "Up to me" or "You think too mutt"...I would definitely move on in that situation....on to another wife. I don't accept barspeak.

...and that dog, it would have taken a stick to the head...and the Owner would have picked up the shit and put it in his pocket voluntarily.

I think this deserves a bump, and I wanted to respond to your particular post.

Ideally, of course it's not wise to accept racism and to just move on. But, we immigrant westerners in Thailand are not in a ideal situation, and standing up for oneself here can make a bad situation worse. Most of us as individuals here are effectively powerless. Our western upbringing encourages us to demand 'inalienable rights' we are afforded/guaranteed in our own countries, but unfortunately, these same rights are not even offered to Thais here in Thailand. To demand them here will be regarded as, well, rather silly to Thais. That's the reality here.

Another topic is that of power. What power does the average or even well above average westerner have here in Thailand? Not much at all, of course. Unless one is of extraordinary wealth or position, he/she probably rather powerless. Our independence, serving us well in many areas of our lives, betrays us with respect to power. We take pride in our independence. We argue incessantly, demean and degrade one another who are from different countries. We are often separated and divided. We do not have strong, supportive communities with strong power brokers to fight for our positions on issues. Essentially, as beautiful as it is to be a Westerner, I have to believe we modern versions of our many immigrant ancestors are ill-prepared for our liberties being stripped away from us in countries like Thailand.

All this being said, do I think someone should be satisfied with a person 'walking all over them' here in Thailand? Of course not, but I do think we have to keep in the back of our minds the reality of the situation here which will give us some perspective for our reaction and which will likely temper our reactions in these kinds of situations. 9 times out of 10, it's better to approach it calmly, respectfully and humbly -- with the mindset of a single person in a country of 65+ million; at tiny, microscopic voice trying to be heard. You react differently if someone is creating potential danger or actual danger to you, but you should still remember how Thai society functions. Unless you have power (like the Chinese who fought discrimination for generations for their power), you should act accordingly which is to be quite humble.

Edited January 22, 2012 by ThailandMan

[anterian]

In most circumstances being white gives you high status, but in a confrontation with a Thai it is counter productive. The trick is to use your "high status" to get the local Pooyai, village boss, police or whatever, to handle the problem, Thai to Thai. I realise this delays the solution, but it makes the solution more permanent. I'll give one simple example, I had a neighbour who constantly parked his truck in front of my gate, he felt he had the right because before I bought the house it was empty and no one objected. My Thai partner was not prepared to confront him, for Thai reasons, so i spoke to the local police Sargent. The policeman simply pinned a handwritten signed note on my gate, "No Parking". End of problem.