Australia Catches Another Boatload Of Asylum Seekers Off Its Coast

[simple1]

Colin, I believe you are American - so let's hear your thesis on the makeup of the US prison population, with the underlying social and economic drivers; then compare to the European prison population. Your research will no doubt provide the answers to your questions.

A starting point for your research could be the following. "According to the US Bureau of Justice Statistics (BJS) non-Hispanic blacks accounted for 39.4% of the prison and jail population.

No I'm English or as the Aussies called me "A pom" some Americans call me a "limey" of which I take no offence whatsoever ,I was born in 1941 (the good old days) and have known poverty like you would not believe ,and by the time I was 17 I was working split 12 hour a day shifts 6 till 6 and 10 to 10 I worked hard and eventually got what I wanted out of life with an 100% clean record .

OK, but you are a prolific poster and commentator on immigration issues around the world, so how about posting your research, not just referencing some anti Muslim/immigrant website

[softgeorge]

There seems to be two sides here, Those that want to open up the boarders for a free for all and whoever wants to come and be provided for by Australia and those of us that do not want it.

[Steely Dan]

There is of course the issue of double standards where Western nations are held to a higher standard of conduct than less developed ones as the following link shows.

http://gulfnews.com/news/world/other-world/bangladesh-turns-away-rohingya-muslims-fleeing-religious-violence-in-myanmar-1.1034891

Teknaf Bangladesh border guards pushed back three more boats carrying about 100 Rohingya Muslims fleeing religious violence in Myanmar, officials said on Tuesday.

Border Guard Bangladesh (BGB) teams intercepted the boats carrying Rohingya people as they tried to enter Bangladesh on Monday night over the Naf river that separates the nations, BGB Major Shafiqur Rahman said.

“The three boats were carrying 103 Rohingya, including 81 women and children, who were coming from Akyab [sittwe],” he told AFP.

There are a couple of things to note here. First of all the group of would be refugees comprised largely of women and children, which is in marked contrast to the boatloads of culture enrichers headed to Australia, or Europe for that matter, who are almost entirely male. Then there is the fact that Bangladesh can hardly be the welfare utopia that Australia is which also underlines what real refugees are as oppose to economic migrants/cultural jihadists.

[simple1]

There seems to be two sides here, Those that want to open up the boarders for a free for all and whoever wants to come and be provided for by Australia and those of us that do not want it.

Hope you don't mind, but I would say it's those who want Australia to stand by it's international agreements and those who don't. If you don't, as previously suggested, lobby your MP's for a referendum to address this issue.

[Scott]

Bangladesh is not a signatory to the UN Conventions on Refugees.

The legality of their actions would fall under a different set of laws concerning giving assistance to ships in distress. A similar situation occurred in Thailand some years back.

Is the standard different? Yes. But virtually nobody cares much about the Rohingyas. They are one of the most persecuted groups on the planet. I can guarantee if any of them make it to Australia's shores, they will be screened in as a refugee. If they weren't, they couldn't be repatriated since neither Myanmar nor Bangladesh will take them back.

[thaibeachlovers]

There seems to be two sides here, Those that want to open up the boarders for a free for all and whoever wants to come and be provided for by Australia and those of us that do not want it.

Hope you don't mind, but I would say it's those who want Australia to stand by it's international agreements and those who don't. If you don't, as previously suggested, lobby your MP's for a referendum to address this issue.

Ah, but was there a referendum asking Aussies if they wanted to open the borders in the first place? I'd doubt that.

Since when did polies do what a MAJORITY of the population want?

[thaibeachlovers]

There seems to be two sides here, Those that want to open up the boarders for a free for all and whoever wants to come and be provided for by Australia and those of us that do not want it.

I have a solution- those that want illegals to have unlimited access can pay for them, and provide accomodation etc. If that were the case I suspect there would be few supporting open borders!

Funny how liberals always want other people to pay for their policies.

[simple1]

There seems to be two sides here, Those that want to open up the boarders for a free for all and whoever wants to come and be provided for by Australia and those of us that do not want it.

Hope you don't mind, but I would say it's those who want Australia to stand by it's international agreements and those who don't. If you don't, as previously suggested, lobby your MP's for a referendum to address this issue.

Ah, but was there a referendum asking Aussies if they wanted to open the borders in the first place? I'd doubt that.

Since when did polies do what a MAJORITY of the population want?

Will you please listen, Australia has not opened up it's borders. Yes, it's being abused, but every asylum seeker/refugee is assessed against government security and international treaty obligations. However, there was a referendum in the not to distant past, the Republic issue. As I recall the then PM, Howard, was against it, but the referendum went ahead. So, going to lobby your PM or not?

Edited June 19, 2012 by Scott

[Daewoo]

Thanks for the long and reasoned reply.

However, there are 2 things that I think have been overlooked in all this

1/ the problems in origin countries, IMO, come from overpopulation, but no one is daring to say or do anything about this. So, theoretically, over the years the trickle will turn to a tidal wave- what you gonna do then?

Neither Iraq or Afganistan are overpopulated... just like Australia, they have masses of unariable land, and both had good infrastructure until outside countries 'foreign policy' (read covert and overt military activity) destroyed that and left them open to extremists... Neither Iraq or Afganistan would be the sh!tholes they are now if it wasn't for America (supported by Australia), and in the case of Afganistan, the USSR using them as pawns for expansion... we created the problem or at least threw fuel on the fire (over many decades)...

2/ Rather than running away to another country, an option would be to stay in their own country and do something about it themselves. Is it our responsibility to sort other countries problems ( think about it )?

I think that, if I was living in Australia under the constant threat of death through bombings attacks because of my race or religion, and Afganistan or Iraq were safe places with good infrastructure where I knew I could build a new life for myself or my family, I would seriously consider leaving rather than hanging around to try and fix it...

IMO multiculturalism is a sick joke, perpetrated on western host populations by bleeding heart liberals with white guilt. How much muliculturalism do you think saudi arabia practices? They don't even allow you to practice Christianity, let alone build a church, but they expect the right to build mosques in western countries.

The thing that irks me immensly though, is that the guy who wants to bring his Thai wife to the west faces all sorts of legal hurdles and financial burden, while an illegal gets all sorts of taxpayer help.

I don't disagree... I intentionally bought a house in Sutherland Shire (those from Sydney will know what I mean) to get away from 'multicultural' (read excessively Arab) areas where I know my sons would be subjected to violence and discrimination at school... I think it is a disgrace that my son will never have the opportunity to go to my High School, where my Grandfather and Father In-Law also went, because it is academically selective, and despite being highly gifted, I won't tutor him for the entrance exam the way the Chinese will...

I just think that we could accommodate 6,000 Arabs (Iraq) and Persians (Afgan) refugees escaping genuine sh!tholes in fear of their lives, if we didn't have 158,000 coming in through the open front door as 'legal' immigrants...

I would be shutting the doors to the Chinese who really do have the desire and capability to overrun the country, will the full backing and assistance of their own expansionist government, well before I shut off humanitarian migration, especially when their problems have in a very significant way, been added to by Australia and the US...

[thaibeachlovers]

Thanks for the long and reasoned reply.

However, there are 2 things that I think have been overlooked in all this

1/ the problems in origin countries, IMO, come from overpopulation, but no one is daring to say or do anything about this. So, theoretically, over the years the trickle will turn to a tidal wave- what you gonna do then?

Neither Iraq or Afganistan are overpopulated... just like Australia, they have masses of unariable land, and both had good infrastructure until outside countries 'foreign policy' (read covert and overt military activity) destroyed that and left them open to extremists... Neither Iraq or Afganistan would be the sh!tholes they are now if it wasn't for America (supported by Australia), and in the case of Afganistan, the USSR using them as pawns for expansion... we created the problem or at least threw fuel on the fire (over many decades)...

2/ Rather than running away to another country, an option would be to stay in their own country and do something about it themselves. Is it our responsibility to sort other countries problems ( think about it )?

I think that, if I was living in Australia under the constant threat of death through bombings attacks because of my race or religion, and Afganistan or Iraq were safe places with good infrastructure where I knew I could build a new life for myself or my family, I would seriously consider leaving rather than hanging around to try and fix it...

IMO multiculturalism is a sick joke, perpetrated on western host populations by bleeding heart liberals with white guilt. How much muliculturalism do you think saudi arabia practices? They don't even allow you to practice Christianity, let alone build a church, but they expect the right to build mosques in western countries.

The thing that irks me immensly though, is that the guy who wants to bring his Thai wife to the west faces all sorts of legal hurdles and financial burden, while an illegal gets all sorts of taxpayer help.

I don't disagree... I intentionally bought a house in Sutherland Shire (those from Sydney will know what I mean) to get away from 'multicultural' (read excessively Arab) areas where I know my sons would be subjected to violence and discrimination at school... I think it is a disgrace that my son will never have the opportunity to go to my High School, where my Grandfather and Father In-Law also went, because it is academically selective, and despite being highly gifted, I won't tutor him for the entrance exam the way the Chinese will...

I just think that we could accommodate 6,000 Arabs (Iraq) and Persians (Afgan) refugees escaping genuine sh!tholes in fear of their lives, if we didn't have 158,000 coming in through the open front door as 'legal' immigrants...

I would be shutting the doors to the Chinese who really do have the desire and capability to overrun the country, will the full backing and assistance of their own expansionist government, well before I shut off humanitarian migration, especially when their problems have in a very significant way, been added to by Australia and the US...

We'll have to agree to disagree about whether Afganistan is overpopulated or not, and I didn't think there are many Iraqis on the boats, but I could be wrong there.

You may have misunderstood my stance on genuine refugees- I have no problem with giving temporary refuge to those that are in real fear of being killed for whatever reason, provided they are not allowed into the general population, their new born children are not given citizenship of the host country, and they have to go back as soon as the situation stabilises in their country of origin.

My comments on people staying and sorting their own country refers to economic illegals.

I have to disagree about the Chinese. Aside from those that are fifth columnists and gangsters, Chinese people work hard, and are of benefit to any community. Besides, if there had been more Chinese women back home, I wouldn't have had to move to Thailand to find an attractive woman to marry, LOL.

I lived in Singapore for some years, and I think they had the best political system and it was the best country I ever lived in. It's just a pity that it's way too expensive for me to live there now.

[edwinclapham]

Many refugees and asylum seekers have gone on to be a credit to many countries..

They have trained as health professionals etc and are more happy than most to take up rural posts which are usually so unpopular.

I read an excellent book a while ago which outlined the many problems that are faced before and after arriving in their host country.

Refugee Doctors by Jackson Carter.

When you read articles such as this young lady http://www.canberratimes.com.au/act-news/refugee-doctors-compassion-heals-old-wounds-20120513-1yl8v.html whose family fled Sarajevo , and is now practicing medicine in Canberra, my feelings are we are so fortunate to have her on board.

Tasmanian farms open to refugees..http://www.abc.net.au/rural/tas/content/2011/07/s3272859.htm

The above is proving very successful as well, and I dont see any evidence of leeching from society tbh.

For me one of the most important aspects of migration be it a refugee or asylum seeker is that integration is encouraged, along with education and community support.

An article

[Colin Yai]

Colin, I believe you are American - so let's hear your thesis on the makeup of the US prison population, with the underlying social and economic drivers; then compare to the European prison population. Your research will no doubt provide the answers to your questions.

A starting point for your research could be the following. "According to the US Bureau of Justice Statistics (BJS) non-Hispanic blacks accounted for 39.4% of the prison and jail population.

No I'm English or as the Aussies called me "A pom" some Americans call me a "limey" of which I take no offence whatsoever ,I was born in 1941 (the good old days) and have known poverty like you would not believe ,and by the time I was 17 I was working split 12 hour a day shifts 6 till 6 and 10 to 10 I worked hard and eventually got what I wanted out of life with an 100% clean record .

OK, but you are a prolific poster and commentator on immigration issues around the world, so how about posting your research, not just referencing some anti Muslim/immigrant website

Why not produce a pro Islamic Immigration web sight in to Europe with shows Multiculturalism has been an unbridled success story? ,I say quite clearly it has failed both in Europe and Australia, the Australian one I posted was ruled "off side" even though the link in it which Was an answer to Samrans question was not challenged ,Funny old world ain't it. Edited June 19, 2012 by Colin Yai

[Exsexyman]

Thanks for the long and reasoned reply.

However, there are 2 things that I think have been overlooked in all this

1/ the problems in origin countries, IMO, come from overpopulation, but no one is daring to say or do anything about this. So, theoretically, over the years the trickle will turn to a tidal wave- what you gonna do then?

Neither Iraq or Afganistan are overpopulated... just like Australia, they have masses of unariable land, and both had good infrastructure until outside countries 'foreign policy' (read covert and overt military activity) destroyed that and left them open to extremists... Neither Iraq or Afganistan would be the sh!tholes they are now if it wasn't for America (supported by Australia), and in the case of Afganistan, the USSR using them as pawns for expansion... we created the problem or at least threw fuel on the fire (over many decades)...

2/ Rather than running away to another country, an option would be to stay in their own country and do something about it themselves. Is it our responsibility to sort other countries problems ( think about it )?

I think that, if I was living in Australia under the constant threat of death through bombings attacks because of my race or religion, and Afganistan or Iraq were safe places with good infrastructure where I knew I could build a new life for myself or my family, I would seriously consider leaving rather than hanging around to try and fix it...

IMO multiculturalism is a sick joke, perpetrated on western host populations by bleeding heart liberals with white guilt. How much muliculturalism do you think saudi arabia practices? They don't even allow you to practice Christianity, let alone build a church, but they expect the right to build mosques in western countries.

The thing that irks me immensly though, is that the guy who wants to bring his Thai wife to the west faces all sorts of legal hurdles and financial burden, while an illegal gets all sorts of taxpayer help.

I don't disagree... I intentionally bought a house in Sutherland Shire (those from Sydney will know what I mean) to get away from 'multicultural' (read excessively Arab) areas where I know my sons would be subjected to violence and discrimination at school... I think it is a disgrace that my son will never have the opportunity to go to my High School, where my Grandfather and Father In-Law also went, because it is academically selective, and despite being highly gifted, I won't tutor him for the entrance exam the way the Chinese will...

I just think that we could accommodate 6,000 Arabs (Iraq) and Persians (Afgan) refugees escaping genuine sh!tholes in fear of their lives, if we didn't have 158,000 coming in through the open front door as 'legal' immigrants...

I would be shutting the doors to the Chinese who really do have the desire and capability to overrun the country, will the full backing and assistance of their own expansionist government, well before I shut off humanitarian migration, especially when their problems have in a very significant way, been added to by Australia and the US...

A really good post. But be prepared for some incoming flak from some outraged posters on here who genuinely believe that the people of Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya etc, are having bombs dropped on them, their infrastructure destroyed etc, for their own good. To save them from themselves!

[samran]

Colin, I believe you are American - so let's hear your thesis on the makeup of the US prison population, with the underlying social and economic drivers; then compare to the European prison population. Your research will no doubt provide the answers to your questions.

A starting point for your research could be the following. "According to the US Bureau of Justice Statistics (BJS) non-Hispanic blacks accounted for 39.4% of the prison and jail population.

No I'm English or as the Aussies called me "A pom" some Americans call me a "limey" of which I take no offence whatsoever ,I was born in 1941 (the good old days) and have known poverty like you would not believe ,and by the time I was 17 I was working split 12 hour a day shifts 6 till 6 and 10 to 10 I worked hard and eventually got what I wanted out of life with an 100% clean record .

OK, but you are a prolific poster and commentator on immigration issues around the world, so how about posting your research, not just referencing some anti Muslim/immigrant website

Why not produce a pro Islamic Immigration web sight in to Europe with shows Multiculturalism has been an unbridled success story? ,I say quite clearly it has failed both in Europe and Australia, the Australian one I posted was ruled "off side" even though the link in it which Was an answer to Samrans question was not challenged ,Funny old world ain't it.

who is pleading the 5th now?

Fact is, you couldn't run a coherent balanced argument if you tried.

[samran]

There seems to be two sides here, Those that want to open up the boarders for a free for all and whoever wants to come and be provided for by Australia and those of us that do not want it.

Hope you don't mind, but I would say it's those who want Australia to stand by it's international agreements and those who don't. If you don't, as previously suggested, lobby your MP's for a referendum to address this issue.

Ah, but was there a referendum asking Aussies if they wanted to open the borders in the first place? I'd doubt that.

Since when did polies do what a MAJORITY of the population want?

There is an election every 3 years. A non-discriminatory, immigration system is supported by both sides of the political system. Immigration was at its highest during the last reign of the conservatives, running at close to 300,000 people per year from memory. If that isn't an open border, I don't know what is. Not that the tinfoil hatter wingnuts would let you know.

[Will27]

There seems to be two sides here, Those that want to open up the boarders for a free for all and whoever wants to come and be provided for by Australia and those of us that do not want it.

Hope you don't mind, but I would say it's those who want Australia to stand by it's international agreements and those who don't. If you don't, as previously suggested, lobby your MP's for a referendum to address this issue.

If only it was that simple.

There are those who think Australia should stand by it's international agreements on those who arrive.

However, there are also those who wish to put procedures in place to try and stop the boats arriving.

Does anybody know what the govt's "plan B" is now that they cannot get the Malaysian solution passed?

I doubt they have one.

Regards

Will

[chooka]

Samran The 5th youre refering to is an American thingy and has nothing to do with Australia who is a stand alone government, separated from the U.S

I guess you are 100% behind the Australian guy who is seeking political asylum in Ecuador?

Edited June 20, 2012 by chooka

[simple1]

Samran The 5th youre refering to is an American thingy and has nothing to do with Australia who is a stand alone government, separated from the U.S

You do understand what the 5th is don't you and therefore the implication of Samran's comment?

[Colin Yai]

Samran The 5th youre refering to is an American thingy and has nothing to do with Australia who is a stand alone government, separated from the U.S

You do understand what the 5th is don't you and therefore the implication of Samran's comment?

I did not claim the 5th I posted a reply to Samrans request but it was ruled "off side" please read my post 192 AGAIN , maybe some people do not savvy "off side" eh , and I am still waiting for an answer to my post 192 or are you claiming the 5th too?. Edited June 20, 2012 by Colin Yai

[chooka]

Samran The 5th youre refering to is an American thingy and has nothing to do with Australia who is a stand alone government, separated from the U.S

You do understand what the 5th is don't you and therefore the implication of Samran's comment?

I'm Australian, not American so the American Constitution does not apply to Aussies. Australia has it's own laws and judicial system.

[Colin Yai]

Chooka ,I'm a Pom but I often use the word (the 5th) to just point out that the other side is avoiding the question of which Samran appears to make a habit of ,and then he accuses me of the same thing , its no big deal just a bit of harmless fun

Edited June 20, 2012 by Colin Yai

[simple1]

Samran The 5th youre refering to is an American thingy and has nothing to do with Australia who is a stand alone government, separated from the U.S

You do understand what the 5th is don't you and therefore the implication of Samran's comment?

I did not claim the 5th I posted a reply to Samrans request but it was ruled "off side" please read my post 192 AGAIN , maybe some people do not savvy "off side" eh , and I am still waiting for an answer to my post 192 or are you claiming the 5th too?.

Coiin, please go to the following Australian government website that talks to Multiculturalism. You note the following; The vast majority of Australians some 93%, now accept that in a descriptive sense, Australia has become a multicultural society. So it would seem that you and some of the other posters are in the minority.

http://www.immi.gov.au/media/publications/multicultural/agenda/agenda89/whydowen.htm

As already posted by others each time you and other people who subscribe to your opinions have been requested to do some research via government sites or internationally recognised organisations, the only response to date is to point to yet another anti Muslim/immigrant website. Two other posters have pointed to some underlying causes to the wave of Islamic asylum seekers/refugees. In addition some of the political root causes started back in the 1920's with the likes of the Balfour Convention. So one last time, please post your comments / research from "official" websites.

[simple1]

Samran The 5th youre refering to is an American thingy and has nothing to do with Australia who is a stand alone government, separated from the U.S

You do understand what the 5th is don't you and therefore the implication of Samran's comment?

I'm Australian, not American so the American Constitution does not apply to Aussies. Australia has it's own laws and judicial system.

Again you've missed the point

[Colin Yai]

Samran The 5th youre refering to is an American thingy and has nothing to do with Australia who is a stand alone government, separated from the U.S

You do understand what the 5th is don't you and therefore the implication of Samran's comment?

I did not claim the 5th I posted a reply to Samrans request but it was ruled "off side" please read my post 192 AGAIN , maybe some people do not savvy "off side" eh , and I am still waiting for an answer to my post 192 or are you claiming the 5th too?.

Coiin, please go to the following Australian government website that talks to Multiculturalism. You note the following; The vast majority of Australians some 93%, now accept that in a descriptive sense, Australia has become a multicultural society. So it would seem that you and some of the other posters are in the minority.

http://www.immi.gov....89/whydowen.htm

As already posted by others each time you and other people who subscribe to your opinions have been requested to do some research via government sites or internationally recognised organisations, the only response to date is to point to yet another anti Muslim/immigrant website. Two other posters have pointed to some underlying causes to the wave of Islamic asylum seekers/refugees. In addition some of the political root causes started back in the 1920's with the likes of the Balfour Convention. So one last time, please post your comments / research from "official" websites.

Please read my post 192 again you are avoiding the question ,the very thing you accuse me of

[Colin Yai]

http://islammonitor....d=180&Itemid=18 Simple 1,This is just another link which I base my concerns on , Europe is already a "lost cause" and unless Australia sits up and learns the lessons what has happened there!!! ,no doubt the Link will be ruled EXTREMIST of course the unbridled truth often is Ain't it . Edited June 20, 2012 by Colin Yai

[samran]

Chooka, why don't you have a go at your mate Colin for using the term 'Pleading the 5th'. He was the one who used it first.

I mean, it is hardly an exotic term, but as I've found out, with you mob, most things, including your own shadows are exotic.

As an aside, I do note some irony here. You blokes a big supporters of 'One Nation' type policies, but, in the absence of a credible far right party (and I use that term lightly) you are all going to vote liberal. The irony lies in the fact that One Nation was brought undone by a new and low key backbencher at the time, who worked methodically to make the party implode, as his Jesuit education taught him to abhor the hate that party was teaching.

Now, I know you guys are adverse to levels of research above anything that is achievable by a 5 year old, so I'll give you his name, cause that's just the type of bloke I am.

Tony Abbott.

[Colin Yai]

Chooka, why don't you have a go at your mate Colin for using the term 'Pleading the 5th'. He was the one who used it first.

I mean, it is hardly an exotic term, but as I've found out, with you mob, most things, including your own shadows are exotic.

As an aside, I do note some irony here. You blokes a big supporters of 'One Nation' type policies, but, in the absence of a credible far right party (and I use that term lightly) you are all going to vote liberal. The irony lies in the fact that One Nation was brought undone by a new and low key backbencher at the time, who worked methodically to make the party implode, as his Jesuit education taught him to abhor the hate that party was teaching.

Now, I know you guys are adverse to levels of research above anything that is achievable by a 5 year old, so I'll give you his name, cause that's just the type of bloke I am.

Tony Abbott.

Samran concerning the 5th I admitted as much to " My Mate Chooka " in my post 201 , its no big deal

[Scott]

Off-topic posts with personal comments have been removed as well as replies.

The topic is about Australia and boat people. It's not about Islam or the UK. Drop the discussion or you will receive a posting holiday.

[Colin Yai]

Off-topic posts with personal comments have been removed as well as replies.

The topic is about Australia and boat people. It's not about Islam or the UK. Drop the discussion or you will receive a posting holiday.

Cheers Scott I just won my case of Chang

[simple1]

http://islammonitor....d=180&Itemid=18 Simple 1,This is just another link which I base my concerns on , Europe is already a "lost cause" and unless Australia sits up and learns the lessons what has happened there!!! ,no doubt the Link will be ruled EXTREMIST of course the unbridled truth often is Ain't it .

Yet again you have pointed to a website that is dedicated to anti Islamic content. No longer prepared to continue this dialogue.