Retirement: $____ Per Mo. For The Rest Of My Life.

[GPage]

Hi, Folks...

For those of you that are living in Thailand, I'm certain that there are a wide variety of stories about how you live and what your plans are. I have read the recent posts regarding the circumstances and reasons for staying in Thailand permanently. There was not one reply that was negative or remorseful. Every one related an emotional and/or spiritual success. Indeed, the Thai people and their culture has a way of getting deep into our beings.

My journey begins at the end of this year. I have compiled information and made a committment to myself that my one-way ticket to Phuket will be just that....one way. I'm so excited, that I truly don't care to worry myself about what might happen 2, 5, or 10 years after my arrival. But, in the interest of some reason, I would like to know what any of you feel is an adequate nest egg for retirement in the Kingdom. I realize not everyone has the same tastes or spending habits, but on an average and reasonable level...what can I expect to spend per year to live with a Western Toilet and in or near a town on the island of Phuket?

Also, please add any response to the topic: Vespa - Necessity or Insanity? Or: Should I just take the ###### bus?

Thanks,

Gary

[pnustedt]

You'll find loads of threads on this subject. However, I think the concensous is that min. requirement is about Bt40K a month, probably more in Phuket, with house and transport already found.

Nowadays you can expect just over 4% from a med term secure bond, so say an investment of Bt12mill., to provide your 40K.

Yes, you need transport, not so sure about a Vespa tho.

[Nam Kao]

>>>>Indeed, the Thai people and their culture has a way of getting deep into our beings.

And also into your wallet

some little tee rak is about to hit pay dirt

[Sir Burr]

I own my house and car in Phuket. Hopefully I'll retire in 4 to 5 years. I am aiming for 80,000 Bt per month (US$2000). If you have to rent a house and transport, add that extra cost to the 80,000 Bt.

[Thaiquila]

You'll find loads of threads on this subject. However, I think the concensous is that min. requirement is about Bt40K a month, probably more in Phuket, with house and transport already found.

Nowadays you can expect just over 4% from a med term secure bond, so say an investment of Bt12mill., to provide your 40K.

Yes, you need transport, not so sure about a Vespa tho.

I find these kinds of posts hilarious.

The kinds of people who pull up stakes and move to Thailand are the kinds of people with a HIGHER than average tolerance for risk.

In my opinion, if a person has 12 million liquid cash, to put all that money in a boring old bond would be daft and a clear sign of hardened arteries and early Alzheimers.

Take more financial risk and over time, getting 7 percent plus return should be easy. 4 percent doesn't even cover inflation!

To try for over 10 percent return, a lot more risk ... up to you.

It is my impression that Phuket public transport outside Patong is not convenient, so you would probably need some kind of private transport.

Edited January 7, 2006 by Thaiquila

[GPage]

>>>>Indeed, the Thai people and their culture has a way of getting deep into our beings.

And also into your wallet

some little tee rak is about to hit pay dirt

Ah, finally a negative comment... Actually, I spent a year in the tee rak arena when I was younger. Now at my age (55), I would hope that I could learn from my experiences. Besides, it's only money...right?

You'll find loads of threads on this subject. However, I think the concensous is that min. requirement is about Bt40K a month, probably more in Phuket, with house and transport already found.

Nowadays you can expect just over 4% from a med term secure bond, so say an investment of Bt12mill., to provide your 40K.

Yes, you need transport, not so sure about a Vespa tho.

I find these kinds of posts hilarious.

The kinds of people who pull up stakes and move to Thailand are the kinds of people with a HIGHER than average tolerance for risk.

In my opinion, if a person has 12 million liquid cash, to put all that money in a boring old bond would be daft and a clear sign of hardened arteries and early Alzheimers.

Take more financial risk and over time, getting 7 percent plus return should be easy. 4 percent doesn't even cover inflation!

To try for over 10 percent return, a lot more risk ... up to you.

It is my impression that Phuket public transport outside Patong is not convenient, so you would probably need some kind of private transport.

Agreed....And thanks for the input.

[Nam Kao]

>>>Take more financial risk and over time, getting 7 percent plus return should be easy

40% is easy

>>>Ah, finally a negative comment

the buzzards will be circling, be careful, stay single

nam

[GPage]

>>>Take more financial risk and over time, getting 7 percent plus return should be easy

40% is easy

>>>Ah, finally a negative comment

the buzzards will be circling, be careful, stay single

nam

Nam,

No tee rak plans for me. I've learned to appreciate the view outside the candy store window. I'll be fine on my own. Appreciate the reply.

G

[Nam Kao]

Gp. Tee Raks are ok, but be a master of the game and you will enjoy.

take care

nam

[Patex]

Hello Gary,

800 000 ฿ p.a. will do it (as a minimum), except healthinsurance.

Buy yourself a new car (maybe a Honda Jazz/City/Civic), it will be good for your health/safety/comfort.

Have a nice time,

Patex

[Swelters]

I don't know about this idea of "one way tickets", doesn't sound wise to me. Better make some progressively lengthier trips and gradual commitments to keep yourself in balance.

Couple of years ago a friend of mine and I, middle age Americans, compared notes on what it took to live comfortably and single in Bangkok's Sukhumvit area on an interim month-to-month basis, we found about $100 US a day would do it. Others seem to be doing it long term on as little as $35 a day but they typically describe themselves as "not having any money."

[GPage]

Hello Gary,

800 000 ฿ p.a. will do it (as a minimum), except healthinsurance.

Buy yourself a new car (maybe a Honda Jazz/City/Civic), it will be good for your health/safety/comfort.

Have a nice time,

Patex

Thanks, Patex....I will keep 800,000 baht on account as required annually for the retirement visa. I would hope I could spend less than that each year, but am prepared for that amount while in Phuket.

G

[Firefan]

The rule of thumb is that one can (based on history only!) safely withdraw 4-5% from an asset class & country wise well diversified portfolio (bonds/stocks/commodities/REITs Etc.) - this no. includes that one can increase the withdrawals with inflation.

So if one believes that 60.000 Baht per month (in todays money) will do it the about $400k is needed. The 4% rule is based on the historical WORST case scenario (for a 30 year period) - so might be a bit too conservative for most. Also; as one ages it makes sense to dig a bit more into the nest egg.

Cheers!

[GPage]

The rule of thumb is that one can (based on history only!) safely withdraw 4-5% from an asset class & country wise well diversified portfolio (bonds/stocks/commodities/REITs Etc.) - this no. includes that one can increase the withdrawals with inflation.

So if one believes that 60.000 Baht per month (in todays money) will do it the about $400k is needed. The 4% rule is based on the historical WORST case scenario (for a 30 year period) - so might be a bit too conservative for most. Also; as one ages it makes sense to dig a bit more into the nest egg.

Cheers!

Thanks...I will have 300K liquid and an additional $1200 per month in pension. My luck, I'll live to be 80 and be living in a tuk-tuk after my 25th year of retirement.

G

[Misplaced]

I would say you can live comfortable for less than what most of you are stating. If you live conservatively without any extravangant things you can live comfortablely at little as 20000 Baht / month. Ofcourse this would mean the house is paid, the car is bought. I know many Thais who are happy at 10000 Baht/month.

[PeaceBlondie]

At the risk of saying, "How long is a piece of string?" - oops, I just said it - it all depends. Apparently you have no likelihood of spending money on a significant other. If you have no other expensive vices, such as drinking more than one drink per day, and no smoking, and no drugs; and you have no debilitating health problems; and...and...then, you should be able to make it on 40K a month, not counting capital purchases like house or car.

I have one vice , and I spent 90K last month, not including Christmas presents and travel. So, it depends upon the absence of vices or, if you prefer, 'expensive habits.'

[Sir Burr]

If you have $300k and a $1200 per month pension, you have enough.

[astral]

Remember that unless you want the hassle of visa runs etc the Thai Immigration

expects you to have 80,000baht a month available.

You can however live comfortable life for a lot less.

I would say $1000 (40K) as month would suffice

with an extra $3000 pa for insurance cover of various kinds, health, household etc.

[PeaceBlondie]

Astral, isn't it 66,667 baht per month, or 800,000 baht in the bank, or any combination thereof? US$1,200 per month is about 48,000 baht per month, or 576,000 baht per year. If he'd put 300,000 baht in a Thai bank, they might issue him a retirement visa, assuming he meets the other criteria.

[Simbo]

Remember that unless you want the hassle of visa runs etc the Thai Immigration

expects you to have 80,000baht a month available.

You can however live comfortable life for a lot less.

I would say $1000 (40K) as month would suffice

with an extra $3000 pa for insurance cover of various kinds, health, household etc.

80.000 per month? where did you get that figure? 800.000 per year for retirement visas.

When I retired and came here 4 years ago,for the first 2 years,I spent all my pension, in fact, overspent on many occassions. I didn't worry, because as I anticipated, as time goes by, you settle into a routine. Whereas before I was out everynight, now I stay in a few nights. I used to feel I was missing something.

One has to remember, you are not a young man any more. Thats not to say you are over the hill.

Today, my wife and I had a wonderful day on a quiet beach. We took our barby and food, a few cans.

By the time we got home, we were happy to just watch TV. I think I spent about 100baht. p.s the cans were over from Xmas.

[GPage]

Astral, isn't it 66,667 baht per month, or 800,000 baht in the bank, or any combination thereof? US$1,200 per month is about 48,000 baht per month, or 576,000 baht per year. If he'd put 300,000 baht in a Thai bank, they might issue him a retirement visa, assuming he meets the other criteria.

Yes, I have checked the requirements and it's a combination of validated income and liquid cash in a Thai bank that equals the 800,000 baht per year. Thanks for all of the great information. It will be interesting to see what my mind set is after a full year in Thailand. Bread, milk, cheese? Can any western farang live without them? We'll see.

Gary

[LaoPo]

Hi, Folks...

For those of you that are living in Thailand, I'm certain that there are a wide variety of stories about how you live and what your plans are. I have read the recent posts regarding the circumstances and reasons for staying in Thailand permanently. There was not one reply that was negative or remorseful. Every one related an emotional and/or spiritual success. Indeed, the Thai people and their culture has a way of getting deep into our beings.

My journey begins at the end of this year. I have compiled information and made a committment to myself that my one-way ticket to Phuket will be just that....one way. I'm so excited, that I truly don't care to worry myself about what might happen 2, 5, or 10 years after my arrival. But, in the interest of some reason, I would like to know what any of you feel is an adequate nest egg for retirement in the Kingdom. I realize not everyone has the same tastes or spending habits, but on an average and reasonable level...what can I expect to spend per year to live with a Western Toilet and in or near a town on the island of Phuket?

Also, please add any response to the topic: Vespa - Necessity or Insanity? Or: Should I just take the ###### bus?

Thanks,

Gary

In another mail you wrote you're 55 and single. OK, that's fine, but have you EVER considered what happens if you get seriously ill (in the future) or have an accident and prefer to go back to your homecountry? What about healthinsurance? Will you keep the one from back home?

Do you keep a living space (Appt.) in your homecountry?

I ask these questions since there are SO many 'retired' people from Northern Europe, living in Southern Europe who are facing these kind of things and a great many of them return to their homecountries for 1 of those reasons.

Best of luck to you though.

LaoPo

[soihok]

I think the best solution here is to get loads of dosh together then worry about what and how you are going to do with your time in Thailand

[GPage]

Hi, Folks...

For those of you that are living in Thailand, I'm certain that there are a wide variety of stories about how you live and what your plans are. I have read the recent posts regarding the circumstances and reasons for staying in Thailand permanently. There was not one reply that was negative or remorseful. Every one related an emotional and/or spiritual success. Indeed, the Thai people and their culture has a way of getting deep into our beings.

My journey begins at the end of this year. I have compiled information and made a committment to myself that my one-way ticket to Phuket will be just that....one way. I'm so excited, that I truly don't care to worry myself about what might happen 2, 5, or 10 years after my arrival. But, in the interest of some reason, I would like to know what any of you feel is an adequate nest egg for retirement in the Kingdom. I realize not everyone has the same tastes or spending habits, but on an average and reasonable level...what can I expect to spend per year to live with a Western Toilet and in or near a town on the island of Phuket?

Also, please add any response to the topic: Vespa - Necessity or Insanity? Or: Should I just take the ###### bus?

Thanks,

Gary

In another mail you wrote you're 55 and single. OK, that's fine, but have you EVER considered what happens if you get seriously ill (in the future) or have an accident and prefer to go back to your homecountry? What about healthinsurance? Will you keep the one from back home?

Do you keep a living space (Appt.) in your homecountry?

I ask these questions since there are SO many 'retired' people from Northern Europe, living in Southern Europe who are facing these kind of things and a great many of them return to their homecountries for 1 of those reasons.

Best of luck to you though.

LaoPo

Thanks for the reply, LaoPo. Yes, I have thought about what the years might bring in terms of health or circumstances that might arise. I will not have a home here in the states once I leave. I do have family and feel that I have a support system here in case of any emergency. I may carry over some health insurance from here, but have not looked into what coverage is accepted in Thailand. At 55, there is always a chance that you will need it.

Something to think about, for certain. Thanks for the insight.

Gary

[LaoPo]

Hi, Folks...

For those of you that are living in Thailand, I'm certain that there are a wide variety of stories about how you live and what your plans are. I have read the recent posts regarding the circumstances and reasons for staying in Thailand permanently. There was not one reply that was negative or remorseful. Every one related an emotional and/or spiritual success. Indeed, the Thai people and their culture has a way of getting deep into our beings.

My journey begins at the end of this year. I have compiled information and made a committment to myself that my one-way ticket to Phuket will be just that....one way. I'm so excited, that I truly don't care to worry myself about what might happen 2, 5, or 10 years after my arrival. But, in the interest of some reason, I would like to know what any of you feel is an adequate nest egg for retirement in the Kingdom. I realize not everyone has the same tastes or spending habits, but on an average and reasonable level...what can I expect to spend per year to live with a Western Toilet and in or near a town on the island of Phuket?

Also, please add any response to the topic: Vespa - Necessity or Insanity? Or: Should I just take the ###### bus?

Thanks,

Gary

In another mail you wrote you're 55 and single. OK, that's fine, but have you EVER considered what happens if you get seriously ill (in the future) or have an accident and prefer to go back to your homecountry? What about healthinsurance? Will you keep the one from back home?

Do you keep a living space (Appt.) in your homecountry?

I ask these questions since there are SO many 'retired' people from Northern Europe, living in Southern Europe who are facing these kind of things and a great many of them return to their homecountries for 1 of those reasons.

Best of luck to you though.

LaoPo

Thanks for the reply, LaoPo. Yes, I have thought about what the years might bring in terms of health or circumstances that might arise. I will not have a home here in the states once I leave. I do have family and feel that I have a support system here in case of any emergency. I may carry over some health insurance from here, but have not looked into what coverage is accepted in Thailand. At 55, there is always a chance that you will need it.

Something to think about, for certain. Thanks for the insight.

Gary

Thanks for your reply.

I carry for instance a WORLWIDE insurance, also for health. MOST IMPORTANT however is, that you stay not any longer than 6 months OUTSIDE your homecountry; otherwise you might lose your citizenship* as well as healthinsurance.... I don't know however about your country rules...

* can't find another word for it, sorry; your town/country will make a note that you left your country definitely and will lose a lot of rights, so to speak.

LaoPo

Edited January 7, 2006 by LaoPo

[Neeranam]

If you have $300k and a $1200 per month pension, you have enough.

You are well sorted! MORE than enough.

[quadricorrelator]

Here are some risks to consider (some have been mentioned):

1. Inflation is a huge risk. I don't know the inflation rate in Thailand, but my guess is that it is at least 4%. This means that your $1200.00 per month pension will have the buying power of $600.00 in 24 years. If inflation is 5%, then it will take only 14 years before you pension buying power is reduced to $600.00. (This is true unless your pension is adjusted for inflation). I don't think most people would be happy living on $600.00 per month in Thailand.

Inflation eats away at your 300K as well. If you just invest in a 4% bond, then you would just be maintaining the buying power. In fact, you wouldn't even be maintaining buying power because you still have to pay taxes on that money.

In my opinion, it is difficult to get a real 3% return on your investment. You lose 4% to inflation, 1% or 2% to taxes (in addition to fund expense costs, transaction costs, etc.). So you need to get 9% return just to keep 3% above inflation. To get 9%, you might have to put almost all of your 300K in the stock market. In that case, you would might suffer 15% annual fluctuations in your net worth. Could you handle it if your 300K drops to 255K over the course of a year?

2. Exchange rate fluctuations will also affect you to some extent, but it probably will not be as bad as the problem of inflation because it doesn't compound the way inflation does. If the exchange rate drops to 35 baht/ dollar, then you will have 12% less buying power during that time. But, the 12% doesn't compound yearly, it just stays at that level as long as the exchange rate doesn't change.

3. Health risks will require you to pay for health insurance as well. You may develop the need for expensive treatment. I believe this is quite likely as you get older.

4. How do you know that you will want to stay in Thailand for the rest of your life? Thailand is changing quickly. The things you like about it might disappear or your desires might change.

Maybe you should trying living in Phuket for a few months to see what your cash flow will actually be. It is difficult to know unless you really try. Then you can make better plans.

It might be better to tighten your belt in the beginning and invest some of your monthly pension to counteract inflation.

You might want to check out the website: http://www.retireearlyhomepage.com/

Many people share your concerns.

[skylar]

Bread, milk, cheese? Can any western farang live without them? We'll see.

Gary

quite easily, if said farang has dietary intolerances to gluten and lactose

[mogoso]

Bread, milk, cheese? Can any western farang live without them? We'll see.

Gary

quite easily, if said farang has dietary intolerances to gluten and lactose

Whats so hard about finding bread, milk and cheese. I don't remember having a problem finding them in Chiang Mai. Although when I return as a retired old %^^*&* I should have more than ample time to bake my own bread. It ain't hard, but its been 45 years since last I watched my mother make it (once a month or so). Not because its cheaper than buying that packaged crap (its not) but because it tasted so much better.

[Heng]

The thing with inflation... I think the type of people who are planning ahead, saving, investing, etc. usually find a way to beat inflation anyway. And then there is relativity... most of the masses don't plan ahead, don't save, and don't invest. Whatever happens to inflation, it's likely that most of us (assuming one is making arrangements for the future... at a younger age the better) will be living better off than most anyway. I'd dare say that the majority are not only NOT keeping up with inflation, but actually moving in the opposite direction (with mortgages + financed automobiles, instead of owning their assets outright).

Anyway, the point is that 2.5-3.5 fixed returns aren't necessarily "bad" investments. A good amount of my portfolio is based on them.

That said though, if I ever felt that I was stagnating (or "losing out to inflation"), I could just increase the number other higher return income streams I have as well. I don't really work as much as I used to anymore, but I think for most people, up to age 65 or so, it's not too difficult too return to work of some sort. And if not, it's still not terribly difficult to make up those 1-2 or 3+ pts. when you have a solid 2.5-3.5% return foundation, especially when you consider that the masses typically have to try to make the difference from 0% return or negative return ways of living.

Edited January 8, 2006 by Heng