Things Which Are More Expensive In Thailand Than In Your Home Country?

[transam]

Thai doctors outside of surgery are not anywhere close to the bottom 10% of doctors from western countries. That's just like thinking a burmese laborer can give good advices to a contractor of 50 years for luxury projects in the west.

Almost every thai doctors i have dealt with had very little knowledge without looking through a bunch of books or FAQ lists. Those that did were spewing nonsense. Only met a few good ones in bangkok but they werent educated in thailand.

better go and see one of them ASAP.... it seems your bilious attack isn't clearing up.

Sorry, but l must agree with BJ.

[metisdead]

An overly derogatory nonsense post has been removed as well as the replies.

[chiangmaikelly]

I was thinking about buying a nice watch recently, which I decided against. But it blew me away that the difference in cost between buying here vs the US would have been about the same as a RT plane ticket to the US.

I don't think Thais know how to think personally. I guess it is all corruption and ineffable BS, but my synthesis is that Thais focus on short term dollars, and have no concept of what it takes to truly run a successful business, economy or anything. Why is there nothing like a "globalized" Thai version of say Ikea? Because they don't think right. It is all about the short term, how can I make more money right now. In a couple hundred years hopefully they will realize that actually satisfying customers, as opposed to robbing them, is the way to make real money.

You wrote, "I don't think Thais know how to think personally." The US dollar and UK pound are doing terrible and the baht is doing great. Who does not know how to think? Who owns Central mall?

[jackspratt]

I love all those sexpats.............

calling me names ........

You are a troll.

[isawasnake]

I was thinking about buying a nice watch recently, which I decided against. But it blew me away that the difference in cost between buying here vs the US would have been about the same as a RT plane ticket to the US.

I don't think Thais know how to think personally. I guess it is all corruption and ineffable BS, but my synthesis is that Thais focus on short term dollars, and have no concept of what it takes to truly run a successful business, economy or anything. Why is there nothing like a "globalized" Thai version of say Ikea? Because they don't think right. It is all about the short term, how can I make more money right now. In a couple hundred years hopefully they will realize that actually satisfying customers, as opposed to robbing them, is the way to make real money.

You wrote, "I don't think Thais know how to think personally." The US dollar and UK pound are doing terrible and the baht is doing great. Who does not know how to think? Who owns Central mall?

Good point. It would not be the first time I have been wrong, that is for sure. But I still believe that businessmen here tend to look short term, and don't see "big picture" as well as international businessmen. Maybe when I stated they don't think properly I was assuming they want to make as much money as possible. Maybe I am wrong about that, maybe they are content.

[isawasnake]

^having trouble editing my post. Anyway, I guess the read between the lines point relative to this thread is that the import taxes here, although very beneficial to a few no doubt, hold the country back from really taking off and becoming a much bigger international player. Further, unbeknownst to them, they could be making loads more cash if they did what seems to be so hard for them to do, give up short term cash.

In short, it is actually beautifully ironic. The greediest people in Thailand could load up on a lot more cash, but their greed prevents them from doing so.

Edited October 13, 2012 by isawasnake

[NeverSure]

I was thinking about buying a nice watch recently, which I decided against. But it blew me away that the difference in cost between buying here vs the US would have been about the same as a RT plane ticket to the US.

I don't think Thais know how to think personally. I guess it is all corruption and ineffable BS, but my synthesis is that Thais focus on short term dollars, and have no concept of what it takes to truly run a successful business, economy or anything. Why is there nothing like a "globalized" Thai version of say Ikea? Because they don't think right. It is all about the short term, how can I make more money right now. In a couple hundred years hopefully they will realize that actually satisfying customers, as opposed to robbing them, is the way to make real money.

You wrote, "I don't think Thais know how to think personally." The US dollar and UK pound are doing terrible and the baht is doing great. Who does not know how to think? Who owns Central mall?

The baht is doing great right now. But, how is the economy in Thailand? Have they learned how to manufacture goods (create new wealth) and employ the people in good jobs with that new wealth? Or, are they corrupt where any new wealth created gets taken by the elite?

What is backing the baht? The government manipulates it to keep it low (as do China and Japan) so that the cost of its exported goods will be low and competitive. Yet Thailand is in a pickle in that they can't both stifle imports and get good prices for exports to help the people.

The baht isn't safe and could implode. Comparing it to the fiscal recklessness of the West won't cut it. The problems are entirely different, caused by different things. In Thailand I see the problems as being corruption, a lack of seeing the long term benefits of joining international capitalism as China, Japan and N. Korea have done, and refusing free trade. In the West, at least in the US, the problems aren't about making money. The problems are about spending way to much on social programs and on government employess, the two of which take up more than 1/2 the budget.

The Thai people have now taken on personal debt at staggering amounts and staggering interest rates. They try to live a Western lifestyle on a Thai paycheck. I can't even see how they live. I can't see how that house of cards doesn't come crashing down just as it did in the West. Look at land prices. On a Thai paycheck. It reminds me of the US just before the real estate crash. I've driven by the worst possible shack in a village and seen a late model Toyota pickup which must have cost at least 1 million baht, no doubt bought on credit at about 3% per month. How do they pay for that when the combined income of several generations living in that shack might be 10,000 baht per month? I don't even know how they pay for their cell phones much less that Toyota.

I see Thailand as risking collapse as I see the debt ridden consumerism and the tax dollars being misappropriated by those in high places. Everyone seems to live for today.

Tomorrow will come.

[isawasnake]

Here's my thread related opinion on major stuff. Concise version with the snippet explanations of US vs Thailandia:

Health care: cost goes to Thailand, but if you have to throw quality vs price ratios in there (the most important thing), US gets it I think

Education: US wins. I don't care what anybody says, like health above, calculate quality into the equation and it is not even close

Food: I really give this a toss up, because you can throw some cheap chicken on your bbq just as easy here as back home, although i'd give the US the nod on ability to buy more products cheaply.

Transport: goes to Thailand

Furniture/electronics: don't address me anymore if you don't think US wins, it does

Real estate: Thailand wins

The selling of money: US wins easily

Clothes: This one is tough, many may jump to Thailand, but when quality is in there it probably favors the US

Little stuff/etc: Thailand, just feel like i spend less on little crap here

"Luxury items" (you all can put your own definition there): Thailand wins

So where does that leave us? I have no idea. You can see why people end up here though.

Edited October 13, 2012 by isawasnake

[NeverSure]

Here's my thread related opinion on major stuff. Concise version with the snippet explanations of US vs Thailandia:

Health care: cost goes to Thailand, but if you have to throw quality vs price ratios in there (the most important thing), US gets it I think

Education: US wins. I don't care what anybody says, like health above, calculate quality into the equation and it is not even close

Food: I really give this a toss up, because you can throw some cheap chicken on your bbq just as easy here as back home, although i'd give the US the nod on ability to buy more products cheaply.

Transport: goes to Thailand

Furniture/electronics: don't address me anymore if you don't think US wins, it does

Real estate: Thailand wins

The selling of money: US wins easily

Clothes: This one is tough, many may jump to Thailand, but when quality is in there it probably favors the US

Little stuff/etc: Thailand, just feel like i spend less on little crap here

"Luxury items" (you all can put your own definition there): Thailand wins

So where does that leave us? I have no idea. You can see why people end up here though.

Good post. I like it.

I'm not sure what you mean about transportation. If you mean ride a bus, OK. If you mean own an SUV and a 4x4 pickup, the US wins. If you mean own a real motorcycle, the US wins.

I'm not sure how you mean real estate wins. For one thing, the places simply aren't the same. For another I can't own real estate in LOS so there is no comparison. What do I care about the cost of building a house if when it's done, I don't really own it? If you mean renting a house I agree.

However, Thai real estate is in a bubble and I wouldn't touch it. It reminds me of before US real estate crashed. Prices going up just because they always go up and better buy now. Prices have exceeded the average workers ability to buy. No able buyers = collapse if history is any indicator.

I think LOS is on a bubble driven by consumer debt at abysmal interest rates, low incomes, and ever rapidly increasing asking prices for real estate. I can't fit all of that into a neat box and say it's OK.

[BabyJebus]

Thai doctors outside of surgery are not anywhere close to the bottom 10% of doctors from western countries. That's just like thinking a burmese laborer can give good advices to a contractor of 50 years for luxury projects in the west.

Almost every thai doctors i have dealt with had very little knowledge without looking through a bunch of books or FAQ lists. Those that did were spewing nonsense. Only met a few good ones in bangkok but they werent educated in thailand.

better go and see one of them ASAP.... it seems your bilious attack isn't clearing up.

Sorry, but l must agree with BJ.

Also funny reply. If i were to see a mental health doctor i would have to leave the country as thai doctors are for the most part unable to think things through by themselves. You cant follow guidelines for psychotherapy thats why it does not really exists here and most anxiety/childhood medecine are non-available.

So seing a mental health professional would cost me a fortune here compared to back home, id have to see a farang expat.

[BabyJebus]

For the guy wondering how poor thais get cellphones and other luxuries: Once you get to know a lot of thais you'll learn that a lot of them know someone close to them who stole money from their whole family on numerous occassion to buy those things. You'll also hear every couple weeks about someone in the area having to run away to a temple because their lender is looking for them, then its their friends who go to temples because the lenders are starting to beat up relatives/friends of non-payer. Then they move back to a small village and wait it out for a few years.

Also pawn shops are making even more money than in the west here. People live above their means.

[jonas1234]

Only thaifood is expensive in sweden......

Volvo 1,5 million baht

Petrol 80 /1 lit

Ticket go bkk 30000 baht

A beer 50 or in resturant...250 up

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[chris1dna]

Since I live in the San Francisco bay area the cost of living is hugely higher than most of the US. I currently spend about 7-8k a month. So wouldn't it be safe to say that I would do fairly well on the 3-4k a month budget? One wife and one kid for international school in Chiang Mai. Or am I being completely unrealistic?

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I think you're being unrealistic, if you expect to maintain the same lifestyle. Check out the cost of the cars you are now driving in LOS. It's shocking. Remember, you can't own land in LOS so that's a dilemma. Build a home or buy one and it's on someone else's land. Sure, homes are expensive in SF, but you can't own real estate at all in LOS.

Private schools you'd want to use aren't cheap. The items your family is used to buying at the grocery store are very much more expensive, or aren't available, or can't be trusted for cleanliness and quality.

Yep, Kalifornicate is very expensive, and SF is among the worst, so you have a bit of advantage in comparing, but not enough. Now, if you had the $7 or 8k US in LOS, maybe you could do it. I say maybe becuase a lot of what you're family is used to simply isn't available and you'd have to import it at great cost.

Let be realistic, my friend owns a place in San Francisco (I rent) it ran him $700,000 (so the mortgage payments are around $3700/mo), the rent on a similar sized place (and quality) in Chiang Mai is 15,000 - 30,000 baht ($500 - $1000). So conservatively you are saving 60% on rent alone.

Now the cost of a car, you don't really need one in Chiang Mai, but even if you had one the costs are going to be about the same. You'll pay more in the initial purchase but there is less deprecation and maintenance is cheaper.

Next we have food, it's hard to go out and each for less then $8/pp in the Bay Area, realistically it's a lot more then that. So obviously eating out is cheaper in Chiang Mai. But how about the super market and cooking at home? I'm fairly frugal and it costs me $50/wk in groceries (but I also eat out every day for lunch). Now the costs scale with a family, so lets say $100/wk (most families I know are actually double to triple that). So again you are saving money in Thailand but how much depends entirely on the how much western food you want.

Finally we have the school expenses, this is the one case where Chiang Mai is more expensive then the bay area (assuming you are sending your kids to public school). The top international schools run from 250,000 - 500,000 baht a year, that comes out to ~20,000 - 42,000 a month. In the end this is what determines if it's cheaper in Thailand for a family with children.

Obviously given the budget he is suggesting $3000 - $4000/mo it will be extremely tight with tuition that high, but it will still be possible to have a comfortable lifestyle (just no savings). However with the $8000/mo they are living on at home they would be living very well.

But please, don't let facts ruin a good rant

I wish I could like your post more than once.

I thought this was the case. Actually I spend at least $100 a week just on lunch in the city! If your add daily Starbucks routine add another twenty five bucks. I'll have no problem living the more Thai lifestyle. Usually we are in my wife's village most of the time when we visit and I'll admit it's not for me. More out of the boredom than the accommodations. Typical Thai Stilt house with buffalo pen underneath converted to small store. All in all it sounds like the international school is goin to be the kicker as they say. I should be able to handle that as well since my duplex rental clears an additional 700 a month now with probable significant rise in rental price In the next few years. So all in all as I proffered earlier, it IS much much cheaper to reside in LOs. With the caveat being that to live a completely western lifestyle cost a LOT more. With that being the case I have less worry now. I'm not looking for all the western amenities. Not why I am choosing Thailand. I'm looking for good available medical care and decent infrastructure. Ill have medical coverage thru my pension on a reimbursement basis. Thailand and Chiang Mai have both. Also some contact with westerners will be a must. Thailand and Chiang Mai have both. Chiang Mai possibly too much lol! Either way when we come to the los early next year one Of our main activities will be actually going to the various international schools and actually looking at homes to rent outside of the city to see what the money actually gets. My expat friends all live like cheap Charles there so they offer no real comparison for me other than what I can manage if the worst case scenario happens. And to be honest. They do pretty well considering. You guy are the greatest for sharing your experiences with me. I realize it's all tainted with salt so I am keen to keep my eyes open and see for myself as well. Thanks again TV community.

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[Seismic]

baked beans, marmite, bacon....................is this the masochists forum or what ??, seriously folks you are going to reply to a post that asks you what finger food you cant get here ????

are you people realy so sad that you have nothing to comment on ?????

[NeverSure]

I've heard comments on various threads saying that Thai food is expensive in Western countries. I don't know where that is.

We have a wonderful Thai restaurant here. It's a simple but clean sit down restaurant which used to be a coffee shop restaurant in a truck stop. It is owned by native Thais who have run it successfully for about 20 years. I go in enough that they know me by name.

Most complete meals of the type which include beef, pork, fish or shrimp in there cost around $US8.00. That doesn't include a drink, and a bottle of ordinary US beer or a soft drink is $1.50. Here the norm is to tip 10-20% and I always do 20% for them. So, I get out of there for less than $US12.00 on a complete meal with shrimp, rice on the side, and soup and a beer.

Now, I know that isn't chump change compared to a street vendor in LOS, but compared to a $US20.00 steak or BBQ rib dinner complete + drink + tip it's a cheaper option. It's about the same price as going out for a full sized pizza or Mexican food.

There is a very popular national chain restaurant called the Outback Steak House. Here is a copy/paste from the menu, and it's easy to see that I could have a very good 9oz Top Sirlion dinner complete with choice of side dish which for me would be a baked potato and a dinner salad and a beer, and walk out for about $US20.00.

Menu

Top Sirloin steak dinner:

Outback Special

Our signature sirloin is one of the

leanest cuts, hearty and full of flavor.

6oz.12.99 9oz.15.99 12 oz. 18.99

Customize your steak experience by following the steps below.

Signature Steaks are cooked to order and served with your choice of a cup of

Walkabout Soup or one of our Signature Side Salads and one freshly made side dishes.

Side dish choices:

Garlic Mashed Potatoes

Aussie Fries

Dressed Baked Potato

Fresh Seasonal Mixed Veggies

Sweet Potato with Honey Butter & Brown Sugar

Fresh Steamed Broccoli

Grilled Onions

Seasoned Rice

Sweet Potato Fries

[KhunG]

I've got to take issue with the land ownership issue. It varies widely as to the rates paid, but as far as I know in the US all land is effectively owned by state and/or local governments regardless of who's name is on the deed. In my own example, with no mortgage I still owe over 230,000Baht per year in property taxes, homeowners association fees and mandatory insurance. Don't pay your property taxes in the US and you'll quickly find out who owns your land when you're evicted.

In Thailand my wife owns land free and clear, and will only be taxed if she sells some, not a yearly assessment on what she already owns. My name can be on the deed through a USUFRCT, and we can't be tossed from the home we're building there if we don't pay nearly 20,000Baht/mo to the government(s).

[Bender]

Most of you have missed the point: Its all about the currency exchange!

When, few years ago, you used to get for 1 euro = 50 baht, 1 US dollar = 40 or 1 pound = 70 baht yes thailand was dirt cheap, but now its less and less the case.

And also many people complain about how much, back home, life is expensive. You should realize that in thailand, for local people, life is tasteless, horrible, over-utter expensive. Here for locals, an ice cream is a 'luxury item'...

Edited October 13, 2012 by Bender

[NeverSure]

I've got to take issue with the land ownership issue. It varies widely as to the rates paid, but as far as I know in the US all land is effectively owned by state and/or local governments regardless of who's name is on the deed. In my own example, with no mortgage I still owe over 230,000Baht per year in property taxes, homeowners association fees and mandatory insurance. Don't pay your property taxes in the US and you'll quickly find out who owns your land when you're evicted.

In Thailand my wife owns land free and clear, and will only be taxed if she sells some, not a yearly assessment on what she already owns. My name can be on the deed through a USUFRCT, and we can't be tossed from the home we're building there if we don't pay nearly 20,000Baht/mo to the government(s).

My property taxes are about 1% of the value of my home and I hardly think I'm in danger of defaulting on that. Insurance isn't mandatory because I don't have a mortgage. I have insurance for my peace of mind. I'm not dumb enough to buy something with a homeowner's association (a condo or PUD) but rather I live on acreage in the country where it's perfectly legal for me to fire a weapon and even to hunt.

I own my home.

Now, I don't know what happens to you if you get divorced. I don't know all of the laws in Thailand at all. I know that I as a single person cannot outright own the land under my home in LOS.

[chris1dna]

Kung g. I believe you are mistaken. Property taxes are owe to the city in which the domicile is located. The worse they can do is lien the property and receive the arrears upon sale of said property. They can't "take" your property. this is of course pertaining to California residents.

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[KhunG]

Kung g. I believe you are mistaken. Property taxes are owe to the city in which the domicile is located. The worse they can do is lien the property and receive the arrears upon sale of said property. They can't "take" your property. this is of course pertaining to California residents.

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I'm not familiar with California law, but a quick search for "tax foreclosure California" came up with this:

California law requires residents to pay property taxes....Those that become more than three years behind on their property taxes may be subjected to tax foreclosure and the property sold.

My state also has tax foreclosure laws, and tax foreclosures occur. I'm not in a city, but I pay property taxes for the county, utilities, school district, levee, etc.

[pigeonjake]

thailand can be as cheep or expencive as the idividual wants to make it,

the same as anywere in the world,

why do these threds allways turn into, i cant live like that, i dont want to eat like that,,

were all bloody different,,

what i do,, you may not want to do,

i live in the village farming pigs,

others might not want that and want to live in bkk,

i dont want to do that,

see what i mean??

do what you want to do and be happy in what your doing,

were not in the uk, us, we have chosen to live here for better or for worse,

jake

[chris1dna]

Well I guess if you don't pay for three years you kinda deserve it. Cal has some of the property taxes in the US. Typically 1-2%. Pays for things like emergency services. Fire, paramedics and animal control. Police and health services. Street services. Primary Schools and community colleges. Etc etc etc etc.

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[endure]

I mentioned rates varied widely, mine are obviously higher than yours. Thanks for the gratuitous insult about me choosing where I want to live, which happens to have a homeowners association, jerk.

And 'jerk' isn't a personal insult? Behave yourself.

[chris1dna]

Also that "may" part of that statute is probably a big one. As in maybe probably not likely.

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[pigeonjake]

just 2 yanks seeing who can be the biggest one,,,lol

ive got 2 of them and if i havnt got 2 then mines twice as big as yours,,lol

grow up a bit

[NeverSure]

I mentioned rates varied widely, mine are obviously higher than yours. Thanks for the gratuitous insult about me choosing where I want to live, which happens to have a homeowners association. I happen to prefer a place with sports facilities, lakes, playgrounds, swimming pools, etc. I can take my firearm to a range, or 20 minutes out to hunt.

And, in ten minutes I can be to the athletic club which has an Olympic sized swimming pool,indoor tennis courts and anything else I could want. But I'm not locked into belonging to it. Or I could have a pool and a home gym if I wanted it.

I'm free on my property.

Paying 1% annually of the value of my home to get nice paved roads and schools for everyone (else's) kids and parks and police and fire protection etc. seems pretty cheap to me.

How much do you pay annually in HOA dues who's fees and rules you are locked into? Does that feel like freedom?

In any case, it's not about whether you can afford your taxes, I can afford mine as well. The point is, you pay it or they take your acerage, regardless of the fact that your name is on the deed. Thais actually own their land.

You, yourself don't own land in Thailand.

[KhunG]

Well I guess if you don't pay for three years you kinda deserve it. Cal has some of the property taxes in the US. Typically 1-2%. Pays for things like emergency services. Fire, paramedics and animal control. Police and health services. Street services. Primary Schools and community colleges. Etc etc etc etc.

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I guess I'm completely failing to get my point across. I don't resent paying for the services of the community I choose to reside in. My point is, many complain that foreigners cannot own land in Thailand, when at least those of us in the US can't effectively own land in our own country. By tieing the cost of those services to our property, effective ownership is passed to the state/locality, much in the same way a mortgage passes effective ownership of a property to the bank. We're only allowed to use "our" property as long as we keep paying them for it.

Another example. I hold US citizenship. If I fail to pay my federal income taxes which pay for the services the national government provides, I can be jailed for violating the law. They can't take my citizenship away, though.

[KhunG]

And, in ten minutes I can be to the athletic club which has an Olympic sized swimming pool,indoor tennis courts and anything else I could want. But I'm not locked into belonging to it. Or I could have a pool and a home gym if I wanted it.

I'm free on my property.

Paying 1% annually of the value of my home to get nice paved roads and schools for everyone (else's) kids and parks and police and fire protection etc. seems pretty cheap to me.

How much do you pay annually in HOA dues who's fees and rules you are locked into? Does that feel like freedom?

I never insulted your decision about where you want to live, nor have I disputed that services should be paid for. I described where I wanted to live, and why. I've described my dislike of property taxes as a way to pay for services in another post above.

You, yourself don't own land in Thailand.

Yes, I also said that in my original post. My wife, and later my daughter will, though.

[KhunG]

And 'jerk' isn't a personal insult? Behave yourself.

I posted a response, but it vanished. I'll try again. That statement was in a response to a gratuitous insult. If this post vanishes I'll assume responding is not permitted.

[NeverSure]

I guess I'm completely failing to get my point across. I don't resent paying for the services of the community I choose to reside in. My point is, many complain that foreigners cannot own land in Thailand, when at least those of us in the US can't effectively own land in our own country. By tieing the cost of those services to our property, effective ownership is passed to the state/locality, much in the same way a mortgage passes effective ownership of a property to the bank. We're only allowed to use "our" property as long as we keep paying them for it.

Another example. I hold US citizenship. If I fail to pay my federal income taxes which pay for the services the national government provides, I can be jailed for violating the law. They can't take my citizenship away, though.

You're getting your point across. Your point is just wrong.

You can't at all own land in Thailand.

In the US, I guess you can't own your car either. If you fail to pay to renew the license and registration on it, it will be towed and you will be heavily fined. You won't get it back either until you pay for that license and registration, the fine, and the towing fee and the storage. If you fail to do that, it will be auctioned off and you lost it.

I can name a lot of things you can't "own" if not renewing your license or paying your "fees" counts. You could "own" a real estate brokerage but watch what happens if you don't pay the rent, or if you don't pay to renew your broker's license every two years. Watch what happens if you don't keep your books in order for when you're audited.

At least I didn't sell my soul to the devil by joining a HOA where I bought more government so my neighbors can tell me what I can and can't do, and if we disagree they take me to court and I wind up paying their legal expenses as a lien against my home.

You seem perfectly satisfied to have another ruling class over your property, and risk a lien for those dues and your behaviors, but paying for police and fire and schools is a bad idea.

It seems that your only idea of freedom is no government at all - anarchy. (Except for a HOA.)