National Rifle Association Calls For Armed Guards In U S Schools

[gl555]

There you go again quoting a 42% figure for a completely ambiguous question that is clearly inconsistent with the follow up more poignant questions. 62% said in favor of BAN on assault weapons. 62 % said in favor of BAN on large capacity clips. I think it was around 90% that was in favor of registration. 74% of NRA members were in favor in certain gun control measures that I also quoted to you.

News flash, the above are measures ARE gun control measures (partial bans, background checks on ALL purchases and registration) so you 42% number you keep tossing around is completely inconsistent with reality and unambiguous questions. You are even inconsistent with NRA polls . . .

And I already told you, your CBS poll is biased because it oversampled Democrats who are we know, are pro gun to the extreme!

[F430murci]

There you go again quoting a 42% figure for a completely ambiguous question that is clearly inconsistent with the follow up more poignant questions. 62% said in favor of BAN on assault weapons. 62 % said in favor of BAN on large capacity clips. I think it was around 90% that was in favor of registration. 74% of NRA members were in favor in certain gun control measures that I also quoted to you.

News flash, the above are measures ARE gun control measures (partial bans, background checks on ALL purchases and registration) so you 42% number you keep tossing around is completely inconsistent with reality and unambiguous questions. You are even inconsistent with NRA polls . . .

And I already told you, your CBS poll is biased because it oversampled Democrats who are we know, are pro gun to the extreme!

Haha, you are a funny guy. Did you get access to the sample and discover their political affiliations? I guess the NRA poll is just more liberal deceit and brainwashing from those evil thugs that comprise or support the axis of evil GW warned us about.

[gl555]

There you go again quoting a 42% figure for a completely ambiguous question that is clearly inconsistent with the follow up more poignant questions. 62% said in favor of BAN on assault weapons. 62 % said in favor of BAN on large capacity clips. I think it was around 90% that was in favor of registration. 74% of NRA members were in favor in certain gun control measures that I also quoted to you.

News flash, the above are measures ARE gun control measures (partial bans, background checks on ALL purchases and registration) so you 42% number you keep tossing around is completely inconsistent with reality and unambiguous questions. You are even inconsistent with NRA polls . . .

And I already told you, your CBS poll is biased because it oversampled Democrats who are we know, are pro gun to the extreme!

Haha, you are a funny guy. Did you get access to the sample and discover their political affiliations? I guess the NRA poll is just more liberal deceit and brainwashing from those evil thugs that comprise or support the axis of evil GW warned us about.

Did you actually read the CBS poll properly? Did you notice that right down below they actually showed the political affiliations of the people they polled? You know when you want to post something, make sure you study it properly first so you won't look like the total idiot you are when someone picks your little argument apart.

[HeijoshinCool]

I'd like one of you who is against gun ownership to rationally articulate your plan on how to remove 300,000,000 guns from the hands of Americans.

Please, in a thousand words or less, tell us.

I see many people and organizations (the Economist most recently, advocating repealling the 2nd amendment) spouting off against guns, rabidly in many cases, but no one has set forth a plan on how to remove all those guns from private hands.

Anyone here volunteering to go door-to-door?

Four words:

Australian gun buyback programme

http://en.wikipedia....am#In_Australia

Buy back 300 MIILLION guns? Do the math, Samran.

And, what about those who don't want to sell? Got three more words for them?

It is a start and over time may be more effective than you realize.

http://latimesblogs....-buyback-1.html

"More than 575 guns had been collected by mid-day Wednesday in L.A.'s gun buyback, as people waited for up to two hours to turn over firearms -- no questions asked -- in exchange for gift cards.

While police say the bulk of the guns are "mom and pop guns" -- hunting rifles and shotguns -- the haul includes a handful of larger-scale weapons, including at least 15 assault rifles.

At the Van Nuys buyback station -- one of two in the city of Los Angeles -- one of the first guns to be collected was a Bushmaster rifle that was the same type used at this month's massacre at an elementary school in Newtown, Conn.

Other guns collected included semiautomatic handguns typically associated with gang violence and street crime."

And you are sure that the sellers of the 575 guns hadn't burgled them the night before, to make a bit of extra cash?

[F430murci]

Four words:

Australian gun buyback programme

http://en.wikipedia....am#In_Australia

Buy back 300 MIILLION guns? Do the math, Samran.

And, what about those who don't want to sell? Got three more words for them?

It is a start and over time may be more effective than you realize.

http://latimesblogs....-buyback-1.html

"More than 575 guns had been collected by mid-day Wednesday in L.A.'s gun buyback, as people waited for up to two hours to turn over firearms -- no questions asked -- in exchange for gift cards.

While police say the bulk of the guns are "mom and pop guns" -- hunting rifles and shotguns -- the haul includes a handful of larger-scale weapons, including at least 15 assault rifles.

At the Van Nuys buyback station -- one of two in the city of Los Angeles -- one of the first guns to be collected was a Bushmaster rifle that was the same type used at this month's massacre at an elementary school in Newtown, Conn.

Other guns collected included semiautomatic handguns typically associated with gang violence and street crime."

And you are sure that the sellers of the 575 guns hadn't burgled them the night before, to make a bit of extra cash?

No clue. How would I or anyone know, but the net effect would be the same. Gun and assault rifles off the street.

[cbrer]

Society has failed when your schools need armed guards.

[chuckd]

It is a start and over time may be more effective than you realize.

http://latimesblogs....-buyback-1.html

"More than 575 guns had been collected by mid-day Wednesday in L.A.'s gun buyback, as people waited for up to two hours to turn over firearms -- no questions asked -- in exchange for gift cards.

While police say the bulk of the guns are "mom and pop guns" -- hunting rifles and shotguns -- the haul includes a handful of larger-scale weapons, including at least 15 assault rifles.

At the Van Nuys buyback station -- one of two in the city of Los Angeles -- one of the first guns to be collected was a Bushmaster rifle that was the same type used at this month's massacre at an elementary school in Newtown, Conn.

Other guns collected included semiautomatic handguns typically associated with gang violence and street crime."

And you are sure that the sellers of the 575 guns hadn't burgled them the night before, to make a bit of extra cash?

""More than 575 guns had been collected by mid-day Wednesday in L.A.'s gun buyback,".

Let us take a little look at these figures.

The US has a population in 2012 of 311.59 million people. This 311+ million folks currently own some 300 million guns, which means that there is one gun for 96.28% of the total population.

The Los Angeles metropolitan area has a total population of 12.83 million people. This means that if LA is an average gun ownership area, there would be 12.35 million guns in the LA metropolitan area.

Calculating your own link, buying back guns at the rate of 575 daily would take 21,478 days or a total of 58.84 years just for LA..

...and these are the legally registered guns.

[Tywais]

Post quoting with no link to source removed due to fair use copyright.

[Gary A]

One picture is worth a thousand words.

School in Israel;

[koheesti]

You have to look at the source of this "news". Not known for balanced reporting, just for whipping their main demographic into a frenzy. Trust me, it's not difficult either.

If the school does NOT have armed guards, please post a link to support your attack on the source.

Although you may not be in favor of it...but you see the difference between the President or his daughter and "normal" people, don't you?

The school where the President sends his kids didn't just start having armed guards because of his kids, they have always been there. In fact, the daughters have their own Secret Service detail.

Newtown shows that regular children need protection, not just the children of the privileged.

Also, if the children of the famous and privileged are at risk, WHY has there never been an attack on them in their schools? It's just BS to say that they aren't safe, isn't it?

[koheesti]

I'd like one of you who is against gun ownership to rationally articulate your plan on how to remove 300,000,000 guns from the hands of Americans.

Please, in a thousand words or less, tell us.

I see many people and organizations (the Economist most recently, advocating repealling the 2nd amendment) spouting off against guns, rabidly in many cases, but no one has set forth a plan on how to remove all those guns from private hands.

Anyone here volunteering to go door-to-door?

Four words:

Australian gun buyback programme

http://en.wikipedia....am#In_Australia

Three years after Australia’s controversial ban was implemented, when 643,000 weapons had been surrendered, Inspector John McCoomb, the head of the state of Queensland’s Weapons Licensing Branch, told The Sunday Mail, "About 800,000 (semi-automatic and automatic) SKK and SKS weapons came in from China back in the 1980s as part of a trade deal between the Australian and Chinese governments. And it was estimated that there were 1.2 million semi-automatic Ruger 10/22s in the country. That's about 2 million firearms of just two types in the country." Do the math. Two million illegal firearms of just two types, and only 643,000 guns of all types were surrendered …

http://reason.com/archives/2012/12/22/gun-restrictions-have-always-bred-defian/1

[koheesti]

Society has failed when your schools need armed guards.

Agreed. We've had guns around for longer than anyone here has been alive but only in recent decades have we had such a high amount of mass killings and attacks. Society has certainly failed. Someone should post an interactive map of single-family homes because the disintegration of the two-parent household is probably the greatest factors behind this failure.

Edited December 27, 2012 by koheesti

[Jingthing]

One picture is worth a thousand words.

School in Israel;

Israeli voices are saying quite clearly, do NOT compare the situation in Israel to the gun violence situation in the USA and do not use Israel for NRA propaganda purposes.

Israel's policy on issuing guns is restrictive, and armed guards at its schools are meant to stop terrorists, not crazed or disgruntled gunmen, experts said Monday, rejecting claims by America's top gun lobby that Israel serves as proof for its philosophy that the U.S. needs more weapons, not fewer.

Far from the image of a heavily armed population where ordinary people have their own arsenals to repel attackers, Israel allows its people to acquire firearms only if they can prove their professions or places of residence put them in danger. The country relies on its security services, not armed citizens, to prevent terror attacks.

http://www.cbsnews.c...-schools-claim/

Edited December 27, 2012 by Jingthing

[samran]

I'd like one of you who is against gun ownership to rationally articulate your plan on how to remove 300,000,000 guns from the hands of Americans.

Please, in a thousand words or less, tell us.

I see many people and organizations (the Economist most recently, advocating repealling the 2nd amendment) spouting off against guns, rabidly in many cases, but no one has set forth a plan on how to remove all those guns from private hands.

Anyone here volunteering to go door-to-door?

Four words:

Australian gun buyback programme

http://en.wikipedia....am#In_Australia

Three years after Australia’s controversial ban was implemented, when 643,000 weapons had been surrendered, Inspector John McCoomb, the head of the state of Queensland’s Weapons Licensing Branch, told The Sunday Mail, "About 800,000 (semi-automatic and automatic) SKK and SKS weapons came in from China back in the 1980s as part of a trade deal between the Australian and Chinese governments. And it was estimated that there were 1.2 million semi-automatic Ruger 10/22s in the country. That's about 2 million firearms of just two types in the country." Do the math. Two million illegal firearms of just two types, and only 643,000 guns of all types were surrendered …

http://reason.com/ar...s-bred-defian/1

Well knock me over with a feather. Who would have thought? A quote from a pro gun source.

[HeijoshinCool]

One picture is worth a thousand words.

School in Israel;

Israeli voices are saying quite clearly, do NOT compare the situation in Israel to the gun violence situation in the USA and do not use Israel for NRA propaganda purposes.

Israel's policy on issuing guns is restrictive, and armed guards at its schools are meant to stop terrorists, not crazed or disgruntled gunmen, experts said Monday, rejecting claims by America's top gun lobby that Israel serves as proof for its philosophy that the U.S. needs more weapons, not fewer.

Far from the image of a heavily armed population where ordinary people have their own arsenals to repel attackers, Israel allows its people to acquire firearms only if they can prove their professions or places of residence put them in danger. The country relies on its security services, not armed citizens, to prevent terror attacks.

http://www.cbsnews.c...-schools-claim/

Pray tell, aren't crazed and disgruntled gunmen terrorists?

And aren't terrorists crazed and disgruntled?

Some experts!

.

Edited December 27, 2012 by HeijoshinCool

[BookMan]

Three years after Australia’s controversial ban was implemented, when 643,000 weapons had been surrendered, Inspector John McCoomb, the head of the state of Queensland’s Weapons Licensing Branch, told The Sunday Mail, "About 800,000 (semi-automatic and automatic) SKK and SKS weapons came in from China back in the 1980s as part of a trade deal between the Australian and Chinese governments. And it was estimated that there were 1.2 million semi-automatic Ruger 10/22s in the country. That's about 2 million firearms of just two types in the country." Do the math. Two million illegal firearms of just two types, and only 643,000 guns of all types were surrendered …

http://reason.com/ar...s-bred-defian/1

Well knock me over with a feather. Who would have thought? A quote from a pro gun source.

Unbiased figures you can trust!

[beechguy]

See, that's what I'm talking about.

Millions of unregistered owners. How you gonna find them? Who's going to volunteer to confiscate their guns? The courts are over burdened already. Jails and prisons are overloaded.

No plan. No one has a viable plan.

I guess big ambition is beyond some. A country can send a man to the moon, but throw their hands up of the 'complexity and expense' of a gun buyback.

Money on the table is a huge incentive. It has been done successfully elsewhere. There is a template.

Get the incentives right, other things follow.

BTW - you still haven't given me the calculus of the worth of the lives of those 20 kids.

It's not just the complexity and expense, it's simply not possible, so why waste more taxpayer money and divide us further?

Why is it that it is doomed to failure? Or is the example of a developed nation with a substantial rural population and thus gun culture getting rid of its guns not a good enough example for The Greatest Nation On Earth ™

I don't think the rural population/gun culture is generally the problem, it's people that do this, and I doubt they bought their weapons legally or will be getting in line for the buy back program.

http://www.kshb.com/...uggle-for-leads

or this

http://www.wptv.com/...bullet-hit-girl

But, that's ok, you guys go ahead and come up with a plan to hassle Billy Bob the deer hunter, and ignore the real problems.

Edited December 27, 2012 by beechguy

[maidu]

Two news snippets I recall, when I resided in Wash D.C.

>>> while leaving a party of young folks, a black girl was shoved aside while leaving a party. She said, "that's no way to treat a lady." The guy said, "you no lady," pulled out a gun and shot her dead.

>>> In an elevator, a guy said something to another guy who he didn't know, and used the common tag, 'brother.' The other guy said, "I'm not your brother," and pulled out a pistol and shot the other guy dead.

Just two examples of tens of thousands of people shot for no reason. Two lives snuffed out in a second. I realize banning guns won't have much of an effect. It's psychology that's the problem. Sickos are out there. People have to be wily and lucky to stay alive. It probably doesn't hurt to mix with decent people, and those who aren't in to drugs (including the most harmful drug of all: alcohol) or people who aren't religious fanatics (or fanatics of other peripheral belief systems).

[maidu]

Society has failed when your schools need armed guards.

Where do you draw the line? All the following have armed guards: airports, banks, most large stores, many places on big city sidewalks, border crossings, some parks, airplanes, trains, government buildings, many business offices, rich peoples' homes.

I think society failed when it started forgiving drunks for their innumerable misdeeds. Of perhaps it was when they excused husbands for beating their wives. Those things started happening thousands of years ago. Or perhaps it's a question of how to define the word 'failed.'

[beechguy]

Two news snippets I recall, when I resided in Wash D.C.

>>> while leaving a party of young folks, a black girl was shoved aside while leaving a party. She said, "that's no way to treat a lady." The guy said, "you no lady," pulled out a gun and shot her dead.

>>> In an elevator, a guy said something to another guy who he didn't know, and used the common tag, 'brother.' The other guy said, "I'm not your brother," and pulled out a pistol and shot the other guy dead.

Just two examples of tens of thousands of people shot for no reason. Two lives snuffed out in a second. I realize banning guns won't have much of an effect. It's psychology that's the problem. Sickos are out there. People have to be wily and lucky to stay alive. It probably doesn't hurt to mix with decent people, and those who aren't in to drugs (including the most harmful drug of all: alcohol) or people who aren't religious fanatics (or fanatics of other peripheral belief systems).

Not difficult to find examples, this happened in Chicago and I don't recall any mention of it. http://illinoisreview.typepad.com/illinoisreview/2012/03/no-outrage-over-st-patricks-day-weekend-chicago-shootings.html

[OzMick]

It seems strange to me that the NRA supporters demand access to military weapons to defend their democracy even if (apparently) a fairly large majority wish to see more rigid gun controls legislated.

In a democracy, shouldn't the issue be decided by referendum rather than by who shouts the loudest?

Before you flame, let me say I was not at all in favour of the gun control measures introduced in Oz, and found it personally insulting that a government that would train me in the use of a semi-automatic rifle to defend our country would then say I can't be trusted to use it hunt wild boar. But the majority of Australians were strongly in favour of gun control, and that is the democracy I took an oath to defend.

[maidu]

It seems strange to me that the NRA supporters demand access to military weapons to defend their democracy even if (apparently) a fairly large majority wish to see more rigid gun controls legislated.

In a democracy, shouldn't the issue be decided by referendum rather than by who shouts the loudest?

Before you flame, let me say I was not at all in favour of the gun control measures introduced in Oz, and found it personally insulting that a government that would train me in the use of a semi-automatic rifle to defend our country would then say I can't be trusted to use it hunt wild boar. But the majority of Australians were strongly in favour of gun control, and that is the democracy I took an oath to defend.

As an American, I can say that things are not going to change to any significant degree. Many gun owners are very fixated with their guns. It's one, if not THE, most important aspect of their lives. In their fixation and attachment, they can be compared to extremist Muslims' fixation with their religious parphanalia. Americans also have a belief that a big gun = manliness. That concept is reinforced in many movies stretching back to the early 20th century, and further back to cowboy days. Doesn't matter that a 5 year old kid could pull a trigger and snuff out the biggest baddest guy in town in one second. That's a concept that gun worshipers can't fathom.

[slapout]

One of the several obsticles to US gun control, is the federal government trying to dictate or implement it. There is a large part of the US taxpaying population who are not in favor of a group in Washington DC telling them what to do or not do in their state.This has been demonstrated several times by a state refusing to follow federal guidelines, and in doing so, forfit any federal monies which pertain to the subject of concern. These are the people who do not expect/want a cradle to grave nannie government and feel they can take care of themselves.

I certainly do not have a solution, but there is more to consider than 'big gun equal big man', old west thinking. boys and their playtoys, etc.

I

[Chicog]

One of the several obsticles to US gun control, is the federal government trying to dictate or implement it. There is a large part of the US taxpaying population who are not in favor of a group in Washington DC telling them what to do or not do in their state.This has been demonstrated several times by a state refusing to follow federal guidelines, and in doing so, forfit any federal monies which pertain to the subject of concern. These are the people who do not expect/want a cradle to grave nannie government and feel they can take care of themselves.

I certainly do not have a solution, but there is more to consider than 'big gun equal big man', old west thinking. boys and their playtoys, etc.

I

It has to be a federal solution. If you have a state giving away guns like candy, there is no point having the one next door banning every firearm. They will still be relatively easy to obtain.

That's why the NRA can keep bleating on about how Gun Control states don't have significantly lower crime rates.

[Scott]

A baiting post and reply have been deleted. The use of emotive language which serves only to bait other members will result in your post getting deleted.

[maidu]

• 
  A 35-year-old man was shot to death in
  Wilkinsburg, Pennsylvania in September when he took a break from a game
  of dominoes on a second-floor balcony around 11 p.m. and urinated
  over the rail. Unfortunately, an unidentified man was walking
  below. He yelled, "Yo! Yo!" and fired several gunshots, killing the
  urinator. [National Post, 11-20-2012] [Pittsburgh Tribune-Review,
  9-19-2012]
  

from News of the Weird

[chuckd]

• 
  A 35-year-old man was shot to death in
  Wilkinsburg, Pennsylvania in September when he took a break from a game
  of dominoes on a second-floor balcony around 11 p.m. and urinated
  over the rail. Unfortunately, an unidentified man was walking
  below. He yelled, "Yo! Yo!" and fired several gunshots, killing the
  urinator. [National Post, 11-20-2012] [Pittsburgh Tribune-Review,
  9-19-2012]
  

from News of the Weird

So now we get news of the world on every murder in the US? Give it a break.

Edited December 28, 2012 by chuckd

[gl555]

One of the several obsticles to US gun control, is the federal government trying to dictate or implement it. There is a large part of the US taxpaying population who are not in favor of a group in Washington DC telling them what to do or not do in their state.This has been demonstrated several times by a state refusing to follow federal guidelines, and in doing so, forfit any federal monies which pertain to the subject of concern. These are the people who do not expect/want a cradle to grave nannie government and feel they can take care of themselves.

I certainly do not have a solution, but there is more to consider than 'big gun equal big man', old west thinking. boys and their playtoys, etc.

I

It has to be a federal solution. If you have a state giving away guns like candy, there is no point having the one next door banning every firearm. They will still be relatively easy to obtain.

That's why the NRA can keep bleating on about how Gun Control states don't have significantly lower crime rates.

The failed gun ban experiment of Chicago just goes to prove the point that gun control doesn't work. Not only did Chicago's crime rate not go down, it actually went up. Violent crime and gun related crimes too,

[submaniac]

A 35-year-old man was shot to death in

Wilkinsburg, Pennsylvania in September when he took a break from a game

of dominoes on a second-floor balcony around 11 p.m. and urinated

over the rail. Unfortunately, an unidentified man was walking

below. He yelled, "Yo! Yo!" and fired several gunshots, killing the

urinator. [National Post, 11-20-2012] [Pittsburgh Tribune-Review,

9-19-2012]

• 
  

from News of the Weird

Honestly, if I was walking on a sidewalk and someone peed on me from a balcony, I wouldn't be too happy about it either. I mean what kind of person, instead of just walking to the bathroom, walks to the balcony, and then just starts peeing without looking if someone is down there? Granted, I don't think someone should lose their life over such an incident, but....

[Credo]

Maybe the guy did look first and decided he didn't like the dude down below.