Shoulder Injury

[mek]

Looking for a hospital in Bangkok with sports injuries as specialty. Or at least a doctor who knows what he's dealing with. Injuried my shoulder yesterday lifting heavy weight. I know stupid but now I want to see a doctor who can tell me what is wrong so I can get the proper treatment.

Mek

[bkkbudddy]

mek,

I'm familiar with shoulder injuries. I already had 3 shoulder operations for anterior subluxation and multiple dislocation. My recommendation is dr. somsak kuptniratsaikul, bnh hospital and dr. pornthep mamanee, bangkok hospital.

Where do you workout? I workout at true fitness 6 days a week.

Edited February 14, 2013 by bkkbudddy

[Sheryl]

Dr. Mason at Bumrungrad, US trained and Board certified, specializes in sports medicine and specifically shoulder injuries. many TV members have given favorable feedback on him.

[mek]

Thanks for the replies. Went to BNH today and had MRI scan. Getting an answer tomorrow. I fear the worst but I'll wait and see what the doc says tomorrow. Not really keen on surgery..... About where I'm working out. In the park. Rama 9 park is a brilliant place for running and fysical exercise. I'm gone back to basics which means running, pull ups push ups Trx etc. with minimal risk of injury. And then suddenly yesterday I was tempted by the good old bench press Way to heavy weight and I felt straight away that something was gone wrong in my shoulder. And now I'm just sitting here blaming myself why I didn't stick to my principles about basic training.........Mek

[tropo]

How much weight were you pushing when it happened? I'm asking this because there's a huge difference to the risk of tearing a tendon or ligament if you were using say 300lbs compared to only 200lbs (for example).

[lemoncake]

mek,

I'm familiar with shoulder injuries. I already had 3 shoulder operations for anterior subluxation and multiple dislocation. My recommendation is dr. somsak kuptniratsaikul, bnh hospital and dr. pornthep mamanee, bangkok hospital.

Where do you workout? I workout at true fitness 6 days a week.

have used dr. pornthep mamanee, bangkok hospital

not cheap, but good doctor, though my surgery had some complications, doctors fault is unknown and can not really be determined

dr. somsak kuptniratsaikul, bnh hospital, i found him to be pretty clueless when it came to shoulders.

[lemoncake]

How much weight were you pushing when it happened? I'm asking this because there's a huge difference to the risk of tearing a tendon or ligament if you were using say 300lbs compared to only 200lbs (for example).

weight is not really relevant, because damage can be a number of things caused not only by the weight but also repetitions, incorrect form, or just an unlucky slip.

rotator cuff tear,shoulder instability, tendinitis or possible tear.

an MRI will show it, also experienced Dr can determine it from just moving the shoulder in certain positions.

[tropo]

How much weight were you pushing when it happened? I'm asking this because there's a huge difference to the risk of tearing a tendon or ligament if you were using say 300lbs compared to only 200lbs (for example).

weight is not really relevant, because damage can be a number of things caused not only by the weight but also repetitions, incorrect form, or just an unlucky slip.

rotator cuff tear,shoulder instability, tendinitis or possible tear.

an MRI will show it, also experienced Dr can determine it from just moving the shoulder in certain positions.

I don't suppose you want to answer how much you were bench pressing then?

Weight lifted is an extremely important factor in injuries. It's the amount of force acting against a joint. The damage caused by a heavy weight right at your strength limit will be far more severe than once caused by a light weight lifted for repetitions. If you haven't done an exercise for quite a while you shouldn't even go to a 10 rep max weight.

Edited February 14, 2013 by tropo

[lemoncake]

How much weight were you pushing when it happened? I'm asking this because there's a huge difference to the risk of tearing a tendon or ligament if you were using say 300lbs compared to only 200lbs (for example).

weight is not really relevant, because damage can be a number of things caused not only by the weight but also repetitions, incorrect form, or just an unlucky slip.

rotator cuff tear,shoulder instability, tendinitis or possible tear.

an MRI will show it, also experienced Dr can determine it from just moving the shoulder in certain positions.

I don't suppose you want to answer how much you were bench pressing then?

Weight lifted is an extremely important factor in injuries. It's the amount of force acting against a joint. The damage caused by a heavy weight right at your strength limit will be far more severe than once caused by a light weight lifted for repetitions. If you haven't done an exercise for quite a while you shouldn't even go to a 10 rep max weight.

Tropo, please do not make me laugh.

I know when it comes to topics about gym you know it all

What i was benching has nothing to do with a thread, not to mention shoulder injury is usually a result of shoulder press(especially behind the neck)

No matter what sport you train, if in serious training, one always gets injured, the severity of it is another topic.

Even if you lift 1 kg often enough but in an unnatural movement for the joint or muscle, sooner or later it will be injured.

Now, OP asked for good doctor for shoulder injury, unless you are a practicing doctor i do not think it matters what OP or myself bench

[lemoncake]

http://www.bangkokho...DrID=306 Dr. Pornthep Mamanee

http://www.bumrungra...amatikul Dr. Mason Porramatikul

http://www.bnhhospit...detail/243 DR. SOMSAK KUPTNIRATSAIKUL

Here you go OP, links for 3.first 2 USA educated and specialise in shoulders and sports injury's

PS. Just for reference, Pornthep Mamanee for athroscopic surgery total bill i paid was 330 000baht, then physio for 5-6 months at 1000 baht per visit.

Edited February 14, 2013 by lemoncake

[Kalbo]

How much weight were you pushing when it happened? I'm asking this because there's a huge difference to the risk of tearing a tendon or ligament if you were using say 300lbs compared to only 200lbs (for example).

Bloody Hell,Tropo a 300lbs bench press !! I can barely get 200lbs up.

[tropo]

How much weight were you pushing when it happened? I'm asking this because there's a huge difference to the risk of tearing a tendon or ligament if you were using say 300lbs compared to only 200lbs (for example).

weight is not really relevant, because damage can be a number of things caused not only by the weight but also repetitions, incorrect form, or just an unlucky slip.

rotator cuff tear,shoulder instability, tendinitis or possible tear.

an MRI will show it, also experienced Dr can determine it from just moving the shoulder in certain positions.

I don't suppose you want to answer how much you were bench pressing then?

Weight lifted is an extremely important factor in injuries. It's the amount of force acting against a joint. The damage caused by a heavy weight right at your strength limit will be far more severe than once caused by a light weight lifted for repetitions. If you haven't done an exercise for quite a while you shouldn't even go to a 10 rep max weight.

Tropo, please do not make me laugh.

I know when it comes to topics about gym you know it all

What i was benching has nothing to do with a thread, not to mention shoulder injury is usually a result of shoulder press(especially behind the neck)

No matter what sport you train, if in serious training, one always gets injured, the severity of it is another topic.

Even if you lift 1 kg often enough but in an unnatural movement for the joint or muscle, sooner or later it will be injured.

Now, OP asked for good doctor for shoulder injury, unless you are a practicing doctor i do not think it matters what OP or myself bench

Don't make me laugh Mr Lemoncake. Bench presses are responsible for the lion's share of shoulder injuries. Why? Because this is one movement that people load up with more weight than any other upper body movement. It's THE movement which people use to test their upper body strength.This is not a good thing, but the way things are in gyms.

The amount of weight you're using is extremely important. Weight is supported by bone, tendons, muscles and ligaments. It's basic physics - the more weight you put against joints the more serious the injuries.

[tropo]

How much weight were you pushing when it happened? I'm asking this because there's a huge difference to the risk of tearing a tendon or ligament if you were using say 300lbs compared to only 200lbs (for example).

Bloody Hell,Tropo a 300lbs bench press !! I can barely get 200lbs up.

I don't use those weight now - I train much lighter. I was just curious if the OP got his injury playing around with light weights or something heavy. Heavy weight injuries can cause tendons to tear off bones.

[lemoncake]

Don't make me laugh Mr Lemoncake. Bench presses are responsible for the lion's share of shoulder injuries. Why? Because this is one movement that people load up with more weight than any other upper body movement. It's THE movement which people use to test their upper body strength.This is not a good thing, but the way things are in gyms.

The amount of weight you're using is extremely important. Weight is supported by bone, tendons, muscles and ligaments. It's basic physics - the more weight you put against joints the more serious the injuries.

Just because you visit gym sorry to say does not make an expert, nor does being an amateur body builder, especially when you talking to an ex pro with a few titles .

I also suggest you visit a specialist to enquire about cause of shoulder injury.

But none of that have anything to do with the thread, so again unless you are a qualified doctor, which you clearly not, no need to continue the nonsense

[tropo]

Don't make me laugh Mr Lemoncake. Bench presses are responsible for the lion's share of shoulder injuries. Why? Because this is one movement that people load up with more weight than any other upper body movement. It's THE movement which people use to test their upper body strength.This is not a good thing, but the way things are in gyms.

The amount of weight you're using is extremely important. Weight is supported by bone, tendons, muscles and ligaments. It's basic physics - the more weight you put against joints the more serious the injuries.

Just because you visit gym sorry to say does not make an expert, nor does being an amateur body builder, especially when you talking to an ex pro with a few titles .

I also suggest you visit a specialist to enquire about cause of shoulder injury.

But none of that have anything to do with the thread, so again unless you are a qualified doctor, which you clearly not, no need to continue the nonsense

You're doing it again. You're trying to turn another thread into a flame thread.,

What does my training experience have to do with the question of weight? It's a very simple and basic question. The OP claimed he injured it doing "heavy" bench presses - I asked how much...... and then you come back firing and making a personal attacks.

Judging by your comments I'd seriously doubt you've ever seen much of the inside of a gym. In a real gym these days you'll hardly ever see anyone doing behind-the-neck presses. How long ago was it that you visited a gym?

The OP has already been to get his shoulder scanned and checked and he is waiting for results.

It's perfectly normal that such a thread would morph into a discussion about shoulder injuries as it was bench presses which caused the injury in the first place.

So please give it a break and stop all this personal nonsense.

[Kalbo]

How much weight were you pushing when it happened? I'm asking this because there's a huge difference to the risk of tearing a tendon or ligament if you were using say 300lbs compared to only 200lbs (for example).

Bloody Hell,Tropo a 300lbs bench press !! I can barely get 200lbs up.

I don't use those weight now - I train much lighter. I was just curious if the OP got his injury playing around with light weights or something heavy. Heavy weight injuries can cause tendons to tear off bones.

Yeah, I hear you. I've seen it happen in front of me once, a while ago. Nasty

[robblok]

How much weight were you pushing when it happened? I'm asking this because there's a huge difference to the risk of tearing a tendon or ligament if you were using say 300lbs compared to only 200lbs (for example).

Bloody Hell,Tropo a 300lbs bench press !! I can barely get 200lbs up.

I don't use those weight now - I train much lighter. I was just curious if the OP got his injury playing around with light weights or something heavy. Heavy weight injuries can cause tendons to tear off bones.

Yeah, I hear you. I've seen it happen in front of me once, a while ago. Nasty

Yes with heavy weights you get a different kind of injury so weight is important of course to know. Its can be a totally different kind of injury.

I have benched 300lbs in the past actually more then that, but just one time to get my max. It certainly never was my training weight.

Edited February 15, 2013 by robblok

[cheeryble]

Forgive the question

......but why spend good money getting something diagnosed to the nth degree rather than just avoiding anything with that shoulder and simply doing other exercises?

(I may be asking completely inappropriately in your case, but read of the discussion about overuse of MRI machines and overdiagnosis.....and in my own rotator cuff injury, (and of course most peoples' injuries, time has mostly worked.)

Edited February 15, 2013 by cheeryble

[lemoncake]

Don't make me laugh Mr Lemoncake. Bench presses are responsible for the lion's share of shoulder injuries. Why? Because this is one movement that people load up with more weight than any other upper body movement. It's THE movement which people use to test their upper body strength.This is not a good thing, but the way things are in gyms.

The amount of weight you're using is extremely important. Weight is supported by bone, tendons, muscles and ligaments. It's basic physics - the more weight you put against joints the more serious the injuries.

Just because you visit gym sorry to say does not make an expert, nor does being an amateur body builder, especially when you talking to an ex pro with a few titles .

I also suggest you visit a specialist to enquire about cause of shoulder injury.

But none of that have anything to do with the thread, so again unless you are a qualified doctor, which you clearly not, no need to continue the nonsense

You're doing it again. You're trying to turn another thread into a flame thread.,

What does my training experience have to do with the question of weight? It's a very simple and basic question. The OP claimed he injured it doing "heavy" bench presses - I asked how much...... and then you come back firing and making a personal attacks.

Judging by your comments I'd seriously doubt you've ever seen much of the inside of a gym. In a real gym these days you'll hardly ever see anyone doing behind-the-neck presses. How long ago was it that you visited a gym?

The OP has already been to get his shoulder scanned and checked and he is waiting for results.

It's perfectly normal that such a thread would morph into a discussion about shoulder injuries as it was bench presses which caused the injury in the first place.

So please give it a break and stop all this personal nonsense.

OP did not ask for your opinion on training or anything else, OP asked about good doctors , get over yourself already

[Sheryl]

BOTH of you get over yourself and drop the matter. This is not the place for personal gibes.

the OP asked for specialist recommendations and received them.

[mek]

ok! just to sum up. I went to BNH hospital and had a MRI scan yesterday. Saw the doc today and was told the bad news. Completely torn rotator coff. Only one way. Surgery. Going to see doctor Somsak Kuptniratsaikul tomorrow about whats gonna happen.

My greatest concern at the moment is about the outcome of operation and following recovery and how long time all this is gonna take. Should have been back to work next week (not far from the northpole)

Thanks for advice

Mek

[jrtmedic]

Mek

Sorry to learn about your injury and diagnosis. Recently I suffered a significant shoulder injury which required major surgery to correct.

Your problem revolves around exactly how extensive the damage to your rotator-cuff is.

There are a number of treatment options available to the surgeon. The first is to consider conservative (non operative treatment) which can be very successful especially if the cuff has only suffered minor damage. The second and increasingly popular means of repair is by arthroscope which is only minimally invasive. Finally an open surgical technique may be required for a shoulder which has sustained major damage.

If a surgical approach is suggested you will not need to be hospitalised for more than a day or so.

Post operative pain should not be a major issue and oral analgesics will ensure your comfort.

Regardless of how your shoulder is treated you can expect to have to wear an arm sling for a period of time. Physiotherapy is always required to ensure the best possible outcome. It is possible for you to be taught the exercises and if you wish, you can carry these out without supervision ( As I have) However - be warned !Seeking the "burn" is not an option and will delay your recovery !

Exercise should and must be graded over time.

Your eventual return to work time will be determined to a large extent by the nature of your work and by which arm is affected.( By this I mean if your dominant arm is affected expect a longer return to work time.)

If you have a sedentary occupation return to work will be achieved in a shorter time than will be the case if your job is physically demanding.

Your surgeon will be able to give you a pretty good idea of your total "down time" based on his knowledge of your injury and treatment.

Best wishes

JRT

Edited February 16, 2013 by jrtmedic

[Thali]

I think it generally relies on the injury nature. If your issue is huge then it could take a while to get over it. But sometimes it only take few times to become fit by getting some recommended medicines.

supported living

Edited February 16, 2013 by Thali

[Sheryl]

I think it generally relies on the injury nature. If your issue is huge then it could take a while to get over it. But sometimes it only take few times to become fit by getting some recommended medicines.

It sounds like he has a large tear in his rotator cuff, in which case surgery is likely required followed by physical therapy.

[lemoncake]

ok! just to sum up. I went to BNH hospital and had a MRI scan yesterday. Saw the doc today and was told the bad news. Completely torn rotator coff. Only one way. Surgery. Going to see doctor Somsak Kuptniratsaikul tomorrow about whats gonna happen.

My greatest concern at the moment is about the outcome of operation and following recovery and how long time all this is gonna take. Should have been back to work next week (not far from the northpole)

Thanks for advice

Mek

Mate, hate to say but welcome to the club.

Firstly let me say that the surgery itself is not so bad, the recovery is a pain.

You initially will be in a special sling(not the usual one) this one has something like a box which keeps your arm in certain position.

This sling is rather little uncomfortable and hot, but from memory it stays on for 2 weeks, you then change to normal sling.

Regaining movement is also painful and takes long time, expect to be out for at least 1 year.

Doctor here might promise you full 100% recovery- that is not so, you will loose some movement.

You will be able to return to training after approx 1.5 years, however forget shoulder presses, incline bench.

You do not have to do the surgery, and can just rest, the pain will go away, however cuff will not heal, the scar tissue will develop.

As you get older it will turn into real problem.

I have 3 titanium staples in my shoulder, i feel the pain every time its cold or rains.

If its completely torn, i am afraid pain will never be gone 100%

If you want/need more details about the process or recovery, just PM me, but expect not to be able to use your arm at least for 3 months.

As i mentioned the cost in BKK Hospital with Dr Mamanee was 330 000 baht plus physio,

Edited February 16, 2013 by lemoncake

[lemoncake]

I think it generally relies on the injury nature. If your issue is huge then it could take a while to get over it. But sometimes it only take few times to become fit by getting some recommended medicines.

It sounds like he has a large tear in his rotator cuff, in which case surgery is likely required followed by physical therapy.

You are spot on, its an arthroscopic surgery(6-8 hours) followed by 6 months of physio and more.

Excellent explanation of the process here http://www.orthosports.com.au/content_common/pg-arthroscopic-rotator.seo

Full explanation http://www.orthosports.com.au/SiteMedia/w3svc994/Uploads/Documents/Rotator%20Cuff%20Repair%202012.pdf

[robblok]

ok! just to sum up. I went to BNH hospital and had a MRI scan yesterday. Saw the doc today and was told the bad news. Completely torn rotator coff. Only one way. Surgery. Going to see doctor Somsak Kuptniratsaikul tomorrow about whats gonna happen.

My greatest concern at the moment is about the outcome of operation and following recovery and how long time all this is gonna take. Should have been back to work next week (not far from the northpole)

Thanks for advice

Mek

Mate, hate to say but welcome to the club.

Firstly let me say that the surgery itself is not so bad, the recovery is a pain.

You initially will be in a special sling(not the usual one) this one has something like a box which keeps your arm in certain position.

This sling is rather little uncomfortable and hot, but from memory it stays on for 2 weeks, you then change to normal sling.

Regaining movement is also painful and takes long time, expect to be out for at least 1 year.

Doctor here might promise you full 100% recovery- that is not so, you will loose some movement.

You will be able to return to training after approx 1.5 years, however forget shoulder presses, incline bench.

You do not have to do the surgery, and can just rest, the pain will go away, however cuff will not heal, the scar tissue will develop.

As you get older it will turn into real problem.

I have 3 titanium staples in my shoulder, i feel the pain every time its cold or rains.

If its completely torn, i am afraid pain will never be gone 100%

If you want/need more details about the process or recovery, just PM me, but expect not to be able to use your arm at least for 3 months.

As i mentioned the cost in BKK Hospital with Dr Mamanee was 330 000 baht plus physio,

Sounds like a painful thing.. wow not training for 1,5 year that is harsh, and maybe not all of the movement back tough luck.

I like lifting but i take care not to do stupid things... but there is always a chance hope i never join that club.

[fearless1]

Just for another prospective. I've had 2 full tears, one on the left and one on the right. I had my first surgery in India. It cost about 70000 baht, I was home from the hospital the next day, and I only had a basic sling (no special sling). Full recovery was probably close to a year and at that point I was able to work out normally. In this case I was back to work within a week. I work as a computer programmer. My second surgery was here in Chiang Mai and it cost about 100,000 baht. Again, no special sling and full recovery was less than a year. I would advise you to buy a LazyBoy recliner before the surgery. It will help you to sleep and aid in getting up after resting or sleeping. Laying flat in a bed the first 2 months can be very painful. Both my surgeries were serious surgeries with a lot of bone debridgement. Every case is different but from what I have noticed my situation was pretty typical. Do the physical therapy, but don't overdo it. They will probably start you on a passive range of motion machine just to get the shoulder moving without you engaging any muscles in the effort.

[lemoncake]

ok! just to sum up. I went to BNH hospital and had a MRI scan yesterday. Saw the doc today and was told the bad news. Completely torn rotator coff. Only one way. Surgery. Going to see doctor Somsak Kuptniratsaikul tomorrow about whats gonna happen.

My greatest concern at the moment is about the outcome of operation and following recovery and how long time all this is gonna take. Should have been back to work next week (not far from the northpole)

Thanks for advice

Mek

Mate, hate to say but welcome to the club.

Firstly let me say that the surgery itself is not so bad, the recovery is a pain.

You initially will be in a special sling(not the usual one) this one has something like a box which keeps your arm in certain position.

This sling is rather little uncomfortable and hot, but from memory it stays on for 2 weeks, you then change to normal sling.

Regaining movement is also painful and takes long time, expect to be out for at least 1 year.

Doctor here might promise you full 100% recovery- that is not so, you will loose some movement.

You will be able to return to training after approx 1.5 years, however forget shoulder presses, incline bench.

You do not have to do the surgery, and can just rest, the pain will go away, however cuff will not heal, the scar tissue will develop.

As you get older it will turn into real problem.

I have 3 titanium staples in my shoulder, i feel the pain every time its cold or rains.

If its completely torn, i am afraid pain will never be gone 100%

If you want/need more details about the process or recovery, just PM me, but expect not to be able to use your arm at least for 3 months.

As i mentioned the cost in BKK Hospital with Dr Mamanee was 330 000 baht plus physio,

Sounds like a painful thing.. wow not training for 1,5 year that is harsh, and maybe not all of the movement back tough luck.

I like lifting but i take care not to do stupid things... but there is always a chance hope i never join that club.

It is more mental pain than physical, because your life changes quit a bit, ie can not carry bags, can not lift bags, can not type for too long etc, after the surgery can not brush teeth, wipe butt, cut any food, even open bottle of water(if its right hand, as mine was)

The physical pain is bearable with some pain killers.

The physio is a bit of a killer to be honest, because they try to stretch the arm and it hurts and i mean it really hurts, feels like someone is trying to rip your shoulder out

For first 1-2 years, its pretty hard to even try to keep fit by running, because the "shaking" hurts

In my case, i lost about 20% of hand movement, can not bring my hand behind my back.

I never returned to training, because after 1.5-2 years, you loose the drive, and also training is painful, so its restricted to certain movements.

Heavy lifting certainly does not help to stay safe, but even if you stay light, try to avoid shoulder presses behind the neck(number 1 shoulder injury source), shoulder press in front(go light enough to keep your hands steady, so no jerking the shoulder)

PS. OP i forgot to mention, if you do go through with surgery, insist on titanium staples(cost more) but you do not "ring" when passing in the airport, unless in Manila where sensors set too high, and trying to explain could be problematic

[lemoncake]

Just for another prospective. I've had 2 full tears, one on the left and one on the right. I had my first surgery in India. It cost about 70000 baht, I was home from the hospital the next day, and I only had a basic sling (no special sling). Full recovery was probably close to a year and at that point I was able to work out normally. In this case I was back to work within a week. I work as a computer programmer. My second surgery was here in Chiang Mai and it cost about 100,000 baht. Again, no special sling and full recovery was less than a year. I would advise you to buy a LazyBoy recliner before the surgery. It will help you to sleep and aid in getting up after resting or sleeping. Laying flat in a bed the first 2 months can be very painful. Both my surgeries were serious surgeries with a lot of bone debridgement. Every case is different but from what I have noticed my situation was pretty typical. Do the physical therapy, but don't overdo it. They will probably start you on a passive range of motion machine just to get the shoulder moving without you engaging any muscles in the effort.

Not sure if you were lucky or i was unlucky

my surgery cost 3 times that, and physio was a massage, followed up stretching. did not use any machines at all

I agree though about sleeping. What i found worked for me was sleeping on the good side of the body with the operated hand resting on my GF ass, lucky for me, her ass was big enough to make it perfect position(true story)