Thai Gf First Visit To Uk Refused - What Next?

[malct]

Like Most people here, our first visitors visa was turned down due to lack of Evidence, But before we applied again, I covered the reasons why we were turned down, Plus I had someone check my sponsors letter for grammar it worked a treat, But don't rush into marriage, i waited 4 years.

i understand about the Cost, But its going to cost you a lot more applying for a settlement Visa and i would have waited until 4 months into the tourist visa before talking about getting married , Reason, Life is great while on Holiday, But in the real world, you see things totally different.

On My wife's first visit, she just about done my head in, laying my clothes on the end of the bed every morning, tooth Paste on the tooth Brush, telling me i drink to much coffee, I had lost my Independence, I asked her to marry me in the 4th Year after 2 visitor visa's and over 10 trips to Thailand For me, i had to be sure she was the one.

[Hedghog]

Can't fault the Ukba in this instance.

The Op doesn't come near the requirements,for a visa.

Wait a while and reapply,maybe a year or so.

[malct]

we waited over a year before reapplying, But used the time to build up the relationship. One thing to do, Is to Build up a folder with all the evidence that you need as you go along, this will save time when putting together your next application.

[bobrussell]

Can't fault the Ukba in this instance.

The Op doesn't come near the requirements,for a visa.

Wait a while and reapply,maybe a year or so.

I don't agree!

All that has happened is the applicant has not demonstrated that the visa requirements have been met, not the same thing!

I do agree that the ECO's decision is not that surprising, also not a great idea to jump into marriage just to ease the visa situation!

[David48]

On My wife's first visit, she just about done my head in, laying my clothes on the end of the bed every morning, tooth Paste on the tooth Brush, telling me i drink to much coffee, I had lost my Independence, I asked her to marry me in the 4th Year after 2 visitor visa's and over 10 trips to Thailand For me, i had to be sure she was the one.

laying my clothes on the end of the bed every morning,

tooth Paste on the tooth Brush,

telling me i drink to much coffee,

... she is just taking care of you in the way she knows how.

BTW, I get the toothbrush thing ... I think it's rather cute ...

I don't get the coffee lecture, she likes a cuppa ... but the frown does come out after the 3 stubbie (small bottle of beer)

.

[GarryUK]

Can't fault the Ukba in this instance.

The Op doesn't come near the requirements,for a visa.

Wait a while and reapply,maybe a year or so.

Thank you for your input, but I disagree with you. We missed a few pieces of supporting documentation which we're working to address. We'll be reapplying again soon and hope you don't have any influence on the decision, hehehe.

[GarryUK]

we waited over a year before reapplying, But used the time to build up the relationship. One thing to do, Is to Build up a folder with all the evidence that you need as you go along, this will save time when putting together your next application.

I'm not living in Thailand with her, so while we're on different continents we're not building anything, just missing each other like mad. I have realised from all the responses that every time I book a hotel on the Internet and pay on my credit card, it's appearing only in my name. We're hoping the two hotels we used in March will be able to give copy receipts with both our names on as we both had to give our ID, thus showing we actually stayed together, and going forward I'll be making sure I book under both names. I've also told her to keep the receipts for phone top-ups and monthly Internet time, she might not be able to show calls she makes to me in the same way as I can show calls to her, but it all helps right...

[rawhod]

Right...

[7by7]

every time I book a hotel on the Internet and pay on my credit card, it's appearing only in my name. We're hoping the two hotels we used in March will be able to give copy receipts with both our names on as we both had to give our ID, thus showing we actually stayed together, and going forward I'll be making sure I book under both names.

I wouldn't worry too much about that, simply say in your sponsor's letter that as you booked the hotels in your name and paid with your credit card that the receipts are in your name only.

Same as the Thai entry and exit stamps in your passport only show that you were in Thailand, not that you were visiting her, so you should say that is why you were in Thailand.

Despite what some may think, the ECOs are human; they'll take your word for it.

[malct]

Hi Gary. After you made reference to a thread on Thai GF First Visit to UK, I thought i would get myself up to speed and read the whole 5 pages, Its like a soap opera all these story's and yes i have been part of these soap opera's too and there will be 100's more, I asked my Thai wife today if Thai women have big discussions about farang and how to find a Man, she said yes, but not via the Internet but there is a lot of Thai women asking each other for advice on how to meet there "Rich Farang" Well in thailand, If a thai lady has a farang husband, they all think he is rich!!! I think my wife slipped up and married Cheap charlie Farang LOl, But i was never asked for money from my wife or the family, we got married in Thailand and i bought the family a 32" TV to say thank you.

I believe in Thailand, you only pay Sinsod on the first marriage and my wife had been married before and so had i.

Anyways, Back on topic,

Regarding phone bills, i used a company called Phone cheap, it was a 0844 number, when i was doing the Visa application, I highlighted every 0844 number and explained that who i was calling, Printed off the Home page of phone cheap and how phone cheap works, explain that there was no one else who you would be calling in Thailand and that there was no need for my GF to call me because phone cheap.

That sorted out our communication problem and no need to go down Facebook or Skype route, Sometimes the more info you give them, The more questions they want to ask, Keep it simple and to the point.

Regarding photos, Build up a history of photos, so every time you turn a Page, Its telling a story. so if you met in Oct 2012, you start from there and if you met again in December, that's page 2 and so on, your file has got to be easy to follow, with a index and everything set out, Record all the items that you were refused on and in your sponsors letter , explain that your GF was refused and that you have covered these in your GF application, and also we placed a copy of the refusal letter in the file for reference. I guess if you look back at my history on Here, you may find me asking similar questions and even now i am having to ask questions on our forth coming IIR application.

Good luck

Malc

[hotwinter]

for skype calls, i copied the whole conversation and put that into notepad. deleted all the actually written conversation and just left the parts that said "call to blah blah 43.32mins etc"

so it showed the amount of calls and length. then went back onto my skype and took random screen shots of the calls in skype so the ECO could marry them up and see that they match.

the good thing about using skype is even if the person changes there phone number it still comes up with there name, so they wont see different numbers if your partner changes it

[GarryUK]

for skype calls, i copied the whole conversation and put that into notepad. deleted all the actually written conversation and just left the parts that said "call to blah blah 43.32mins etc"

so it showed the amount of calls and length. then went back onto my skype and took random screen shots of the calls in skype so the ECO could marry them up and see that they match.

the good thing about using skype is even if the person changes there phone number it still comes up with there name, so they wont see different numbers if your partner changes it

Yes I've found Skype was easier than I'd anticipated it was going to be to export the chat log, unlike Facebook Ctrl-A works to select all (just the conversations). I started to edit it down, leaving just the odd conversation here and there, we'll see how many pages it reduces to when I'm done. Perhaps I will try to explain in the new letter how it's near impossible to copy FB history so I wasn't able to include it, but that I was able so have now included my Skype call history.

[GarryUK]

I believe in Thailand, you only pay Sinsod on the first marriage and my wife had been married before and so had i.

Regarding phone bills, i used a company called Phone cheap, it was a 0844 number, when i was doing the Visa application, I highlighted every 0844 number and explained that who i was calling, Printed off the Home page of phone cheap and how phone cheap works, explain that there was no one else who you would be calling in Thailand and that there was no need for my GF to call me because phone cheap. That sorted out our communication problem and no need to go down Facebook or Skype route, Sometimes the more info you give them, The more questions they want to ask, Keep it simple and to the point.

Regarding photos, Build up a history of photos, so every time you turn a Page, Its telling a story. so if you met in Oct 2012, you start from there and if you met again in December, that's page 2 and so on.

Record all the items that you were refused on and in your sponsors letter, explain that your GF was refused and that you have covered these in your GF application, and also we placed a copy of the refusal letter in the file for reference.

Good luck

Malc

Personally I don't have a problem with sinsod, especially since the family is now willing to use the money to give us land. I have to look at everything more closely, but this can wait until nearer the time we get married so hopefully no-one will continue to comment on this point going forward.

I'm disappointed that it isn't obvious that my "normal" phone is too expensive to phone abroad, so I have a "cheap" phone used exclusively for that, who else do they think the bills belong to. But then everyone has said take nothing for granted and explain everything, so I'll be including a copy of the pack the SIM came in as it shows the number, a copy of the registration page which doesn't but at least shows I'm registered with WorldSIM, and I'll be pointing out why I have two numbers in my sponsors letter.

I included 3 pages of photos, each containing typically 8 pictures with dates and brief descriptions. These covered the first two trips plus her meeting me at the airport for my third, but now I have the opportunity to include another page from my last trip.

I wondered whether or not I should refer to the refusal. Should I include the original sponsors letter and a new one just covering what bits have been added to this re-application, or should I simply write a new letter expanding on the original to cover/include the refusal and the extra documentation we've included this time?

[wooloomooloo]

Perhaps I will try to explain in the new letter how it's near impossible to copy FB history so I wasn't able to include it, but that I was able so have now included my Skype call history.

If you feel you have to, Garry. There's a tendency to micromanage the application until it's so convoluted that you risk contradicting yourself. Keep it simple.

[GarryUK]

Perhaps I will try to explain in the new letter how it's near impossible to copy FB history so I wasn't able to include it, but that I was able so have now included my Skype call history.

If you feel you have to, Garry. There's a tendency to micromanage the application until it's so convoluted that you risk contradicting yourself. Keep it simple.

Huh? I don't understand what you're telling me, sorry.

[David48]

Perhaps I will try to explain in the new letter how it's near impossible to copy FB history so I wasn't able to include it, but that I was able so have now included my Skype call history.

If you feel you have to, Garry. There's a tendency to micromanage the application until it's so convoluted that you risk contradicting yourself. Keep it simple.

Huh? I don't understand what you're telling me, sorry.

He's saying ... Keep it simple.

I would say that you really don't need to provide a technical reason why you can't do something.

The Agency doesn't want to read explanations like the 'dog ate my homework'.

What they want to see is a clear record of communication between you two.

.

[malct]

and like i said, Sometimes the more info you give them, The more questions they want to ask, Keep it simple and to the point.

[phomthai]

We demonstrated a whole history of emails & Skype calls between us with a selection of simple screen shots from the pc using Word...really not that difficult and did it all using just my email, Skype & Facebook a/cs, no need to duplicate using your GF’s a/cs

Email

1. create a new folder in your yahoo/hotmail/gmail email account
2. name it with your GF’s name
3. transfer all of your emails sent to & received from your GF
4. Open a new Word document
5. “screen print” (Up arrow and “PrtScr” keys) into the new email folder
6. Paste (Ctrl V) into the Word document
7. Print off hard copies

Skype

1. Log in to Skype on your pc
2. You should be able to bring up history of calls to a specific Skype contact, in this case your GF
3. You can then “screen print” into Word same as your email screen prints

Facebook

1. Similar process to above screen shots
2. Don’t forget to show your Facebook relationship status with you GF

10-20 pages of screen shots should do the job....just make sure they cover a selection of the period that you’ve been together.

Good luck

[NanLaew]

the main hurdle she needs to overcome is the 'reason to return' at the end of the visit....in the sponsors letter you could write that she wanted to visit the UK and continue relationship before moving onto the next step which would be marriage.

Good luck

I've known from the start that if the application was refused it would be because we struggle to prove she'll go home. In addressing the points raised by the UKBA I've got to provide more proof than 3 pages of photographs and 3 trips to Thailand that the relationship is genuine, and I've got to convince them that we fully intend to return together to Thailand in October to get married.

The fact is the request for a visa to enable the relationship to develop per the OP's post #7, "we decided if she can visit for a few months that will give us time to develop the relationship even further than it has, as well as help her decide if she wants to move to the UK." is not lost on the UKBA. What if the relationship develops the other way? What if she has total culture shock, can't handle the separation while you are working OR you find her endearing and cute closeness in Thailand turns in to clingy, moody dependency in the UK and one or other decides, like the UKBA already has, that this is all getting beyond a joke?

The OP is pretty convinced that she will happily adapt to the UK, the marriage will go ahead in Thailand and all end happy ever after... after only 3 visits by him to Thailand in less than 6 months. The UKBA doesn't factor in love, emotions or feelings in their deliberations.

Apart from addressing the points stated in the refusal notice, the OP needs to accept that a 6-month relationship that is pretty much 90% internet-based just won't hack it. He may need to consider budgeting for at least a couple more trips to Thailand and try again this time next year. Or investigate meeting his girlfriend in a third country where she either doesn't need a visa or where Thai's can get some form of limited permission to stay on arrival.

[meatboy]

Can't fault the Ukba in this instance.

The Op doesn't come near the requirements,for a visa.

Wait a while and reapply,maybe a year or so.

Thank you for your input, but I disagree with you. We missed a few pieces of supporting documentation which we're working to address. We'll be reapplying again soon and hope you don't have any influence on the decision, hehehe.

met in oct.2012,applied for visa march 2013 thats only 5months,advice given so far is wait till you know her better and longer,take it and save your money.if she's genuine she will wait.

[rawhod]

I wondered whether or not I should refer to the refusal. Should I include the original sponsors letter and a new one just covering what bits have been added to this re-application, or should I simply write a new letter expanding on the original to cover/include the refusal and the extra documentation we've included this time?

Just write a new sponsor letter. The ECO, according to 7by7, has only 10 mins to asses the application, two letters would be confusing.

I include all essential information first and then any ancillary information, should they require, it they have it.

[sms747]

We were married before appliying the next year for a VV. Turned down for several reasons

1 I went to Thailand 3 times a year so why did she have to go to UK

2 I was retiring soon to go and live in Thailand so why did she want to come to the UK

There were a couple of others that I forget, all were impossible to do anything about. All I did was resubmit the same evidence but including a letter form my MP, a minister at that time and they granted the second application. I was shocked at the stupidity of the reasons for rejecting the first one as they were just excuses. My wife told the truth but she was angry that a couple of bar girls she met at the embassy who admitted their applications lied about employment were granted VV. This was 2006. I think it's a bit of a lottery and an expensive one.

Edited April 26, 2013 by sms747

[mjj]

Based on my knowledge from nearly 9 years ago (yeah, I know but the principle should still apply) , after being first refused. Although it was a settlement visa, so I'm guessing harder to achieve

Rule 1. If you think it MIGHT help, photocopy it and submit it. I ended up taking a huge file with everything I could think of. GF has a respected professional friend - get them to write a letter, etc.

Rule 2. Get the contact number of the person that refused the application and shoot them. Only joking! Get the phone number of the person that refused the application and try to just deal with them. Any question, ask them. A run through if what you have, ask them and only them.

This last rule I feel was partially why the second request went very smoothly. No interview and the lady that I was speaking to, said address the application to her and she will deal with it personally. A couple of days later we had the visa.

Edited April 26, 2013 by mjj

[7by7]

Attractive though rule 2 is, it is no longer possible.

Even if you could get through to the actual ECO who refused the application, highly unlikely, at best you will be told that all the information and reasons for refusal are fully explained in the refusal notice.

Edited April 26, 2013 by 7by7

[Waterloo]

Attractive though rule 2 is, it is no longer possible.

Even if you could get through to the actual ECO who refused the application, highly unlikely, at best you will be told that all the information and reasons for refusal are fully explained in the refusal notice.

my recent experience is that option 2 is not a possibilitie anymore, althought it was when the wife first came to the country

[GarryUK]

David48, it was obvious after you said "keep it simple"

phomthai, didn't think of screen printing the folder full of emails, good idea

NanLaew, she's convinced she'll be okay in the UK, and she does have an aunt here so can see it's perfectly possible to adapt. But we can't fear the "what if" and give up without even trying, until she gets here we won't know if she will be happy here, or whether being together for longer than a holiday will strengthen the relationship or just reveal unresolvable problems. Obviously if things go terribly wrong then she'll go home and we won't get married, whereas if the relationship continues to grow we will stick with the plan of marrying on our anniversary. Personally I don't think we're jumping into anything too quickly, plenty of people meet, fall in love and marry within a year, and plenty of them last. How she likes the UK will of course determine if she wants to move here permanently or not, but we'll cross that bridge when we get to it as nobody can say at this point.

tomcreeduk, thanks for sending me the index from your application, I see a couple of things we missed which we can now add. She said about her ID card and letter of invitation from her aunt, I didn't think we needed either but have since learnt I was wrong so they'll be in the next application. You mentioned healthcare cover, do you mean for her whilst in the UK as I'm having trouble finding it for anything near an affordable price. It costs me a few pounds when I go there, okay it's only for short holidays, but for her while she's here for what will now be about 16 weeks we're talking hundreds of pounds which I can stretch to... only they're quoting that per month!

[7by7]

Health insurance is not a requirement for a UK visit visa; but it is a good idea.

Visitors to the UK are not entitled to any NHS treatment except initial emergency treatment in an A&E dept. Anything else will be charged for.

[David48]

To the OP ... in the above post you really are speaking like she will be living permanently there.

I thought that she was just applying for a Tourist Visa?

Re the insurance question, there is a Forum here dedicated to Insurance.

[rgs2001uk]

David48, it was obvious after you said "keep it simple"

phomthai, didn't think of screen printing the folder full of emails, good idea

NanLaew, she's convinced she'll be okay in the UK, and she does have an aunt here so can see it's perfectly possible to adapt. But we can't fear the "what if" and give up without even trying, until she gets here we won't know if she will be happy here, or whether being together for longer than a holiday will strengthen the relationship or just reveal unresolvable problems. Obviously if things go terribly wrong then she'll go home and we won't get married, whereas if the relationship continues to grow we will stick with the plan of marrying on our anniversary. Personally I don't think we're jumping into anything too quickly, plenty of people meet, fall in love and marry within a year, and plenty of them last. How she likes the UK will of course determine if she wants to move here permanently or not, but we'll cross that bridge when we get to it as nobody can say at this point.

tomcreeduk, thanks for sending me the index from your application, I see a couple of things we missed which we can now add. She said about her ID card and letter of invitation from her aunt, I didn't think we needed either but have since learnt I was wrong so they'll be in the next application. You mentioned healthcare cover, do you mean for her whilst in the UK as I'm having trouble finding it for anything near an affordable price. It costs me a few pounds when I go there, okay it's only for short holidays, but for her while she's here for what will now be about 16 weeks we're talking hundreds of pounds which I can stretch to... only they're quoting that per month!

Obviously if things go terribly wrong then she'll go home

Oh if only it were more simple than that.

I know nothing of your girls relationship with her aunt, do you?

You have no clue as to what rubbish the aunt may be filling her head with.

Have you ever seen how some of these girls spend their days in the UK when their partner is working, have you been in the gambling dens, have you seen the money lending that goes on?

What happens if your girl, meets someone else, or returns to her old ways, have you a plan for that?

[brewsterbudgen]

Is it really necessary for her to stay in the UK for 24 weeks? While if she's successful she'll get a 6-month visa, a genuine tourist/visitor is only likely to stay for around one month. This would still give her plenty of time to find out about life in the UK and for your relationship to grow. If she sticks to the time applied for (i.e. she doesn't stay for the whole 6 months of the visa), the likelihood of future visitor's visas will be greatly improved.