Valid International Driver’S License To Rent Car Or Motorbike?

[RioMist]

The Tourism Minister has said that all motorbike rents and car rents the hirer must hold a valid international driver’s license. If this is enforced there will be hundreds of motorbikes on the market! Can't see it myself there is too much money at stake...

[LivinginKata]

For reference ---> this news topic.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/637375-minister-addresses-phuket-tourism-problems/#entry6375652

Please stay on the topic about "all motorbike rents and car rents the hirer must hold a valid international driver’s license" as it's a valid separate discussion.

My view is that the road side and independent vehicle hire people will never ask for valid driver licence so long as people will sign the agreement where they pay all damages and losses. Real full insurance is only offered by the bigger car rental companies who really look at the driver licence being produced.

[Gerald14]

Serious car rental companies will definitely ask for an international drivers license, not sure about bikes. I remember years ago I just rented a car in Bangkok went on the Toll-way and the cops stopped me. I showed my Aussie license, but they insisted on an international license which luckily I had at the time

[Jimi007]

Serious car rental companies will definitely ask for an international drivers license, not sure about bikes. I remember years ago I just rented a car in Bangkok went on the Toll-way and the cops stopped me. I showed my Aussie license, but they insisted on an international license which luckily I had at the time

I rented a Hertz in OZ and a Britz Camper in NZ with my California DL without any problem. Never a problem here in Thailand either.

[JetsetBkk]

I thought the rules were that:

1. a tourist can supply his own country's licence, but

2. an expat - i.e. someone staying here longer than 90 days - must have an international licence (which is only valid for a year) and then must get a Thai license.

[NomadJoe]

Serious car rental companies will definitely ask for an international drivers license, not sure about bikes. I remember years ago I just rented a car in Bangkok went on the Toll-way and the cops stopped me. I showed my Aussie license, but they insisted on an international license which luckily I had at the time

I rented a Hertz in OZ and a Britz Camper in NZ with my California DL without any problem. Never a problem here in Thailand either.

These days an IDP is no longer needed. I haven't heard of any verifiable reports where one was asked for. Before I got my Thai DL, I used my California DL at all the checkpoints with no problem. Everyone I know has said the same thing. My dad, while visiting, even hit a Thai on a motorbike with his rental car with no IDP and it was no problem for the rental car company or insurance.

I thought the rules were that:

1. a tourist can supply his own country's licence, but

2. an expat - i.e. someone staying here longer than 90 days - must have an international licence (which is only valid for a year) and then must get a Thai license.

Not quite. Point 1 is correct, but an expat, (one who has established residency by obtaining a visa other than a tourist visa, or enrolling kids in school, etc) must have a valid Thai license.

The topic of IDP's has been covered at great length on this forum. Here is the result of some digging I did.

Firstly, what is an IDP? Wiki: An International Driving Permit is a document recognized by many countries which allows the permit-holder to drive a private motor vehicle in that country. To be valid the IDP must be accompanied by a valid license from the home country. The document is slightly larger than a standard passport and is essentially a multiple language translation of the permit-holder's normal driver's license, (although none of those languages are in Thai) complete with photograph and vital statistics. In most countries however, short term visitors do not need to possess an IDP since the licence of the home country is recognized and permits one to drive in the host country.

When I first came to Thailand I looked into whether an IDP was required here and was concerned I might have to scramble to get one. When I researched, there was much confusion on the issue, and still is. In my haste I nearly threw down 100USD to one of those internet scam IDP's which claim to be legitimate IDP sellers. But luckily I did more research. I think there are a lot of people that don't know better and follow the outdated and outright inaccurate information available online. The advice from the people selling both the legal (auto clubs) and illegal IDP's (like www.international-license.com) was of course that they were required by law, yet that seemed to contradict the experience of people living in country I was glad I didn't get one after moving here and learning by experience that I in fact didn't need it. Turns out the law does not require it, which explains why police, car rental and insurance companies don't usually ask for them. Of course this is only if you are a tourist/visitor. If you are a resident (on anything other than a tourist visa or visa exempt stamp) then you need a Thai DL. Getting an IDP doesn't hurt, but it's not required. Just don't fall for the internet scam ones. They are as legal as a Khao San Rd. diploma.

-----

CHAPTER V

DRIVERS OF MOTOR VEHICLES IN INTERNATIONAL TRAFFIC

Article 24

1. Each Contracting State* shall allow any driver admitted to its territory who fulfills the conditions which are set out in Annex 8** and who holds a valid driving permit issued to him, after he has given proof of his competence, by the competent authority of another Contracting State or subdivision thereof, or by an Association duly empowered by such authority, to drive on its roads without further examination motor vehicles of the category or categories defined in Annexes 9 and 10 for which the permit has been issued.

2. A Contracting State may however require that any driver admitted to its territory shall carry an international driving permit conforming to the model contained in Annex 10, especially in the case of a driver coming from a country where a domestic driving permit is not required or where the domestic permit issued to him does not conform to the model contained in Annex 9***.

* Thailand is a contracting state, as they became a party via accession on 15 Aug, 1962.

** Annex 8 references required age of drivers.

*** Annex 9 describes the size of domestic driving permit (driver’s license) colour, size, English language, photo size, etc.

Notice in paragraph 2 the word "may" in bold. I added the *'s so people don't have to look them up. It's crystal clear that the treaty does not require contracting states to require an IDP.

http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/other/dfat/treaties/1955/2.html

http://www.unece.org/trans/conventn/legalinst_07_RTRSS_RT1949.html

Below is the relevant section of the Motoring Act of 1979, Title 3 Section 42. It clearly states that if there is mutual acceptance of licenses through treaty (i.e. the treaty above) then "an alien who doesn't have an immigrant visa may drive a motor vehicle with a driver's license issued by such a foreign government". Note that your home country and Thailand must have a treaty on mutual licenses. Most do.

Motoring Act of 1979

Title 3: Driver's License

Section 42

Anyone who wishes to drive a motor vehicle on public roads must possess an appropriate driver's license. The driver must carry the driver's license and a photocopy of the registration book and show them to competent officers upon request. This does not apply for those who are learning to drive a motor vehicle according to the provision of Section 57.

If the driver is an alien who doesn't have an immigrant visa, he may drive a motor vehicle with a driver's license specified in the Section 42-2. In such a case, he must carry documents specified by the treaty between the Thai government and the government which issued such driver's license, and show them to competent officers upon request.

Section 42-2

In case there's a treaty between the Thai government and a foreign government regarding mutual acceptance of driver's license, an alien who doesn't have an immigrant visa may drive a motor vehicle with a driver's license issued by such a foreign government, or an automobile association authorized by such a foreign government.

Unofficial English Translation: http://www.bkkriders.com/law/motorvehicle.html

---

As further evidence, the following are email responses and stated policy form the websites of several car rental companies and insurance companies whom I asked for their policy on this issue. Not a single one came back saying I needed an IDP if a tourist in Thailand. .

Pure Car Rent:

"Thank you for your email. Intenational drivers license is no need to translate because when it says International it should already in English and it is permited to use internationally. About insurance coverage, for Pure Car Rent‘s insurance, Thai, overseas or international driver’s license is acceptable for our insurance companies. So if you drive Pure Car Rent‘s car with driver’s license issued by your country, you and the car are covered by insurance.”

HertzThailand.com:

"Rental Qualification :

Minimum renter age is 21 years. Must hold a valid Thai driving license or a driving license from a renter’s country of residence (with an English translation), or an international driving license."

Budget.co.th:

"All drivers must hold a current, non-probationary license. The license may either be Thai, or from a renter's country of residence (with an English translation) or an international drivers permit. Licenses (and a valid passport) must be carried at all times when driving."

Thai Rent A Car

In order to rent THAI RENT A CAR vehicle, a valid driver’s license from the customer’s country of residence

is required and must be presented at time of rental. International renters must present a valid license from

their country of residence, if the license is in a language rather than English, an International Driver’s

permit is required in conjunction with the country of residence driver’s license

http://www.thairentacar.com/RentalGuides/

AA Insurance Thailand:

"Your 'home' license is legal in Thailand - as long as it is legal in your own country i.e. not suspended !"

Viriyah Insurance:

“Regarding to your question, please be

inform that your legal drivers license issued by The United States of America (date of license valid) is acceptable to use and drive the car in Thailand and The Viriyah car insurance will be cover while have an accident (Just in Thailand). Thank you for your kind interested.”

Bupa Insurance:

"For the international IDP is not a problem sir. As I have check with Bangkok. It’s not a problem for Bupa. No problem with that and the insurance will be covered you for all.

-Prayurapong Pisanaka, Prayurapong Pisanaka, Executive Health & Financial Manager - Head Office American International Assurance Company, Limited

----

In addition to my personal experiences, here is a short collection of first hand accounts from various sources of the seemingly infinite reports of interactions between foreigners driving with no IDP and the Thai police. This reflects the actual reality of the situation on the ground in Thailand and should be the best measuring stick to the legality of diving on your home license with no IDP. It strikes me as very odd that the police who are so fond of finding any little thing to make some tea money seem to be ignoring this if an IDP is required.

Lonely Planet entry:

"I've rented cars in Thailand many times. All the rental companies ask for is a driver's license (US state) and credit card -- just like everywhere else. I've been stopped by the police several times and the driver's license was fine."

Thaivisa member bob4you

I've been driving here for 5 years, stopped a couple of dozen times. Hawaii drivers license was accepted (never questioned once) each time.

ThaiVisa member bubba:

I have never had an International Driving License and I have driven in Thailand using both hired cars and my own car for about ten years now. I do have a valid licence from home. My insurance policy has a clause that states that only a "valid drivers license" is required for the class of vehicle insured. After inquiring, I got it in writing that this includes foreign licenses. I have been involved in three minor property damage accidents, two in a hire car and one in my own car. Whilst driving on a foreign license, my car was smashed by an uninsured pickup with my repair bill being 24,000 baht. My insurance company sent their adjuster out, he made out a report, and I was compensated fully. None of the police asked for a Thai or international licence, nor did the insurance companies and my own insurance company explicitly allows for coverage of drivers using a foreign licence, so long as that licence is valid for the class of vehicle driven. I have been stopped at police checkpoints and police invented traffic infractions dozens of times, and sometimes they ask for my licence. No problem. The police just want the money, not a big hassle. I have hired cars in Thailand dozens of times and no Thai or international licence is required by those companies either, including the majors such as Avis and Budget.

Here are the car rental companies in Thailand that I have used and none require an IDP or Thai licence so long as I had a recognisable and valid foreign licence:

Hertz

Avis

Budget

Master Car Rental

North Wheels (Chiang Mai)

ThaiVisa member tropa:

“I went through one of these road blocks on 3rd Road yesterday. I showed them my Australian drivers licence and they waved me through.”

landofsmiles from another forum:

"Your [home] licence is fine. Chances are in a few days you won't even go through any police checks and if you do it will still be ok. I don't have a bike endorsement on mine and I've been through dozens of checks. All they want to see is the word LICENCE and your photo."

ThaiVisa member fiddlehead:

"I always just used my state drivers licence from USA ... used the above for about 3 years ... Never got a fine for it. Except once because it had expired."

ThaiVisa member phuketrex:

"5 years in Thailand. Through 100's of police checks. Never a problem showing my British licence."

Commenter Robb at Pattaya One:

" I’ve been driving here for years only on my home country licence and never had a problem. Seem the police like the fact I have all my other documentation for my bike, nicely color photocopied and in a ziplok bag under the seat, they never question the fact I don’t have an international licence"

ThaiVisa member Deaw:

"Cruising down 2nd road in Pattaya on my rented 'cycle, not far from the Central Mall; must've been about 30 cops there, with the orange cones and some barricades, flashing red lights, etc.....pulling over EVERY motorcycle, farang and Thai alike. I got waved over by 2 guys. One says "license, please", and I hand him my N.Y. state drivers license. While he is looking it over, I say "I am a tourist here, I don't live in Thailand". Then I point to the "M.C." next to the Operator code and tell them "M.C., that means motorcycle". The older of the 2 says "OK" and they stand aside and let me pass. Total time wasted; 30 seconds.

ThaiVisa member collectsskulls:

"I have an international drivers permit but have never been asked for it only my Canadian one"

ThaiVisa member Kwasaki:

"I have never needed an IDP in Thailand having a UK valid driving license"

Wiki Answers

"All drivers must hold a current, non-probationary licence either Thai or from their own country but if it is not Thai or English they must carry an English translation or an international driving licence."

Wiki Answers

"I drove in Thailand for the first 12 months on a west Australian licence and was often checked but never a problem. Each time I was stopped at a police check point, the policeman seemed more intent on proving that he could read my name.

After that 12 months I got an International liicence whch was a waste of money as I still only showed my Australian licence.

So ,, short answer No you dont need one"

Wiki Answers

"International or US Driver's License and Passport is all you need."

Wiki Answers

"You don't have to have an international driver's license to rent a car, the rental agencies will rent you a car with a valid license from your home country. If you get stopped by the police make sure you show them your passport and the tourist visa stamp"

Wiki Answers

"If you are a farang and possess your home drivers license, that is enough. If a policeman (especially in Udon Thani) stops you, you simply show him your drivers license"

So bottom line, if a BIB does try one on and attempt to do you for no IDP as a tourist, all you need to do is point to your English license with a photo and repeat "International already." Show them your passport/copy with your tourist visa/visa exempt stamp. Speaking Thai to him will only work against you. If he decides that you are a resident and not a tourist/visitor, he may try to cite you for not having a Thai DL, but that has nothing to do with IDP's.

Do the above and I guarantee the BIB will not cite you for diving on just your home license if:

1) You are a tourist/visitor.

2) It is in English.

3) It has a photo.

4) It is current

5) It is for the class of vehicle you are diving.

6) Your home country and Thailand have a mutual agreement on licenses. (See here to determine if they are: http://www.unece.org/trans/conventn/legalinst_07_RTRSS_RT1949.html

More info: http://bangkok.angloinfo.com/information/transport/driving-licences

Edited May 6, 2013 by NomadJoe

[thrilled]

I have never been asked by anyone in thailand for my license or international permit.They sure want my passport.I try and give them A copy when renting.I don't like giving the original.Tha thai police haven't asked for my license either.

[JetsetBkk]

<snip>

I thought the rules were that:

1. a tourist can supply his own country's licence, but

2. an expat - i.e. someone staying here longer than 90 days - must have an international licence (which is only valid for a year) and then must get a Thai license.

Not quite. Point 1 is correct, but an expat, (one who has established residency by obtaining a visa other than a tourist visa, or enrolling kids in school, etc) must have a valid Thai license.

The topic of IDP's <snip>

Thanks for such a detailed reply.

I guess there must be a time limit/grace period if one comes here as an expat - i.e. with a non-immigrant 'O' visa or 'O-A' visa - but hasn't obtained the Thai license yet.

One good reason for getting an IDP is that you don't have to do any actual driving in the test to get a Thai driving license.

[NomadJoe]

I guess there must be a time limit/grace period if one comes here as an expat - i.e. with a non-immigrant 'O' visa or 'O-A' visa - but hasn't obtained the Thai license yet.

<snip>

There is no time limit. You can be on perpetual tourist visa's and never need a Thai license. Some people will say you need a Thai DL after 90 days, but remember on a tourist visa it is impossible to stay in the country consecutively for longer than 90 days without having to do a border run. So your 90 days is essentially starting over. But the tricky thing about that is that as I mentioned before the police can determine you are a resident other ways, such as if you enroll your kids in school, or even if you have a long term rental contract. Of course they aren't going to do this at a roadside stop, so the issue is kind of moot. But get into a major accident with injury or death, and you can bet police and investigators for the insurance companies will put some time into determining if you were properly licensed. But the point is as a tourist/visitor you can drive on home license with or without an IDP, and residents must get a Thai license. It's the exact same rules for the states of America.

<snip>

One good reason for getting an IDP is that you don't have to do any actual driving in the test to get a Thai driving license.

That's right. And you skip the written test too. Only color, reaction and depth perception tests. But many if not most LDT's won't ask for an IDP either. They didn't in Phuket when I did mine, but they did ask me to print out the page from the California DMV website which described what class "C" and "M1" are. This wouldn't have been necessary with an IDP since one of the things an IDP does is describe the class of vehicle you are can drive. Here is the sign which posted in the Chang Mai LDT listing what is needed to convert your home license to a Thai license. No IDP listed.

[keestha]

Real full insurance is only offered by the bigger car rental companies who really look at the driver licence being produced.

No. These "bigger car rental companies" are insured with exactly the same Thai companies which are used by local car rental companies. Of course when a tourist uses a local car rental company, he should enquire if the car has all risk insurance. Sometimes there is a limited own risk of a few thousand Baht. But renting from a bigger car rental company the tourist has to pay a lot extra for hogwash like "pool insurance", whatever that may be. The only advantage of renting from a bigger company, is that you can rent the car in Had Yai, and give it back in Chiang Rai.

[VBF]

I thought the rules were that:

1. a tourist can supply his own country's licence, but

2. an expat - i.e. someone staying here longer than 90 days - must have an international licence (which is only valid for a year) and then must get a Thai license.

So what about my situation (and I'm sure other people too):

Non-immigrant multi-entry O visa, staying in Thailand for 6 months then going back to UK to work. Basically SEMI retired.

My apartment rental is stated as "monthly" as I rent from a friend. Single, no kids.

On this visa I must not stay longer than 90 days, so I choose to stay for up to 90 days, go to Cambodia or Vietnam or wherever for a month, back here for 90 days.

Visa-wise all totally legal.

I have a UK license, and an IDP both for cars - I never drive motorcycles.

I believe I'm legal to drive rentals and friends cars with their permission of course.

What do others think?

Edited May 7, 2013 by VBF

[madmitch]

I thought the rules were that:

1. a tourist can supply his own country's licence, but

2. an expat - i.e. someone staying here longer than 90 days - must have an international licence (which is only valid for a year) and then must get a Thai license.

So what about my situation (and I'm sure other people too):

Non-immigrant multi-entry O visa, staying in Thailand for 6 months then going back to UK to work. Basically SEMI retired.

My apartment rental is stated as "monthly" as I rent from a friend. Single, no kids.

On this visa I must not stay longer than 90 days, so I choose to stay for up to 90 days, go to Cambodia or Vietnam or wherever for a month, back here for 90 days.

Visa-wise all totally legal.

I have a UK license, and an IDP both for cars - I never drive motorcycles.

I believe I'm legal to drive rentals and friends cars with their permission of course.

What do others think?

You have an IDP so you are perfectly legal, but why don't you get a Thai licence? As mentioned above it's easy with an IDP, it's cheap and takes a couple of hours to do. The licence is also acceptable (usually!) as a form of ID. You have an O-visa and a rental contract so my advice would be to get one.

[stevenl]

I thought the rules were that:

1. a tourist can supply his own country's licence, but

2. an expat - i.e. someone staying here longer than 90 days - must have an international licence (which is only valid for a year) and then must get a Thai license.

So what about my situation (and I'm sure other people too):

Non-immigrant multi-entry O visa, staying in Thailand for 6 months then going back to UK to work. Basically SEMI retired.

My apartment rental is stated as "monthly" as I rent from a friend. Single, no kids.

On this visa I must not stay longer than 90 days, so I choose to stay for up to 90 days, go to Cambodia or Vietnam or wherever for a month, back here for 90 days.

Visa-wise all totally legal.

I have a UK license, and an IDP both for cars - I never drive motorcycles.

I believe I'm legal to drive rentals and friends cars with their permission of course.

What do others think?

Thai DL required.

[NomadJoe]

I thought the rules were that:

1. a tourist can supply his own country's licence, but

2. an expat - i.e. someone staying here longer than 90 days - must have an international licence (which is only valid for a year) and then must get a Thai license.

So what about my situation (and I'm sure other people too):

Non-immigrant multi-entry O visa, staying in Thailand for 6 months then going back to UK to work. Basically SEMI retired.

My apartment rental is stated as "monthly" as I rent from a friend. Single, no kids.

On this visa I must not stay longer than 90 days, so I choose to stay for up to 90 days, go to Cambodia or Vietnam or wherever for a month, back here for 90 days.

Visa-wise all totally legal.

I have a UK license, and an IDP both for cars - I never drive motorcycles.

I believe I'm legal to drive rentals and friends cars with their permission of course.

What do others think?

Thai DL required.

Correct.

Sorry madmitch, but by definition a non-"O" visa holder is by definition not a tourist. http://www.mfa.go.th/main/en/services/123/15385-Non-Immigrant-Visa-%22O-A%22-(Long-Stay).html

[JetsetBkk]

I guess there must be a time limit/grace period if one comes here as an expat - i.e. with a non-immigrant 'O' visa or 'O-A' visa - but hasn't obtained the Thai license yet.

<snip>

There is no time limit. You can be on perpetual tourist visa's and never need a Thai license. <snip>

Again, thanks for the detailed reply.

Regarding the point I was making about coming here as an expat: what I meant was, those people who come here on a non-immigrant 'O' or 'O-A' (not on perpetual tourist visas) must be given time to get a Thai license. That's what I thought the 90 days (or whatever) was for - to allow the expat to drive using his country's driving license while applying for a Thai license.

[JetsetBkk]

Correct.

Sorry madmitch, but by definition a non-"O" visa holder is by definition not a tourist. http://www.mfa.go.th/main/en/services/123/15385-Non-Immigrant-Visa-"O-A"-(Long-Stay).html

I would also agree with NomadJoe and VBF. Although you would probably never have a problem with the police, you are technically not a tourist so should get a Thai license. And as Madmitch says, with an IDP and DL it is easy to get a Thai license. And that license is a form of ID, which can be useful.

When I was stopped up-country and showed the BIB my Thai license, he went to all the other BIBs and showed it to them saying (roughly translated) "Hey look. Farang has Thai license!". After much jocularity I got it back and was on my way.

[Arkady]

Motor bike renters will continue to rent to anyone who pays, signs and gives up their passport to them. Police arresting bikers without a licence would be a more effective deterent but they would catch more unlicensed Thai riders than foreigners.

Thailand has only ratified the first agreement on international licenses of 1948 I think which means that int'l licenses are only valid in Thailand if no less than 3 months old. Insurance cos in Thailand have been known to use this loophole to avoid paying out when the driver used an int'l licence more than 3 months old and didn't have a Thai one. It is a joke anyway for English language licences because it doesn't include a Thai translation.

[Arkady]

Correct.

Sorry madmitch, but by definition a non-"O" visa holder is by definition not a tourist. http://www.mfa.go.th/main/en/services/123/15385-Non-Immigrant-Visa-"O-A"-(Long-Stay).html

I would also agree with NomadJoe and VBF. Although you would probably never have a problem with the police, you are technically not a tourist so should get a Thai license. And as Madmitch says, with an IDP and DL it is easy to get a Thai license. And that license is a form of ID, which can be useful.

When I was stopped up-country and showed the BIB my Thai license, he went to all the other BIBs and showed it to them saying (roughly translated) "Hey look. Farang has Thai license!". After much jocularity I got it back and was on my way.

I have had this reaction in Bkk showing an all of life Thai driving licence, as these have not been available to foreigners or Thais since about 2003.

[NomadJoe]

I guess there must be a time limit/grace period if one comes here as an expat - i.e. with a non-immigrant 'O' visa or 'O-A' visa - but hasn't obtained the Thai license yet.

<snip>

There is no time limit. You can be on perpetual tourist visa's and never need a Thai license. <snip>

Again, thanks for the detailed reply.

Regarding the point I was making about coming here as an expat: what I meant was, those people who come here on a non-immigrant 'O' or 'O-A' (not on perpetual tourist visas) must be given time to get a Thai license. That's what I thought the 90 days (or whatever) was for - to allow the expat to drive using his country's driving license while applying for a Thai license.

Ah ok, understood. That is a good point and a good question. I was not considering the time limit allowed for a foreigner to get a Thai DL if they are essentially a resident the moment they arrive. I do not believe there is anything on the books about this, but I have read on several the websites anywhere from 60 to 90 days,which is probably what they are referring to. I'll see if I can find more concrete evidence.

[NomadJoe]

Correct.

Sorry madmitch, but by definition a non-"O" visa holder is by definition not a tourist. http://www.mfa.go.th/main/en/services/123/15385-Non-Immigrant-Visa-"O-A"-(Long-Stay).html

I would also agree with NomadJoe and VBF. Although you would probably never have a problem with the police, you are technically not a tourist so should get a Thai license. And as Madmitch says, with an IDP and DL it is easy to get a Thai license. And that license is a form of ID, which can be useful.

When I was stopped up-country and showed the BIB my Thai license, he went to all the other BIBs and showed it to them saying (roughly translated) "Hey look. Farang has Thai license!". After much jocularity I got it back and was on my way.

I have had this reaction in Bkk showing an all of life Thai driving licence, as these have not been available to foreigners or Thais since about 2003.

And by contrast, in Phuket they don't even bat an eye it is so common for foreigners to have Thai DL's here.

[stevenl]

Correct.

Sorry madmitch, but by definition a non-"O" visa holder is by definition not a tourist. http://www.mfa.go.th/main/en/services/123/15385-Non-Immigrant-Visa-"O-A"-(Long-Stay).html

I would also agree with NomadJoe and VBF. Although you would probably never have a problem with the police, you are technically not a tourist so should get a Thai license. And as Madmitch says, with an IDP and DL it is easy to get a Thai license. And that license is a form of ID, which can be useful.

When I was stopped up-country and showed the BIB my Thai license, he went to all the other BIBs and showed it to them saying (roughly translated) "Hey look. Farang has Thai license!". After much jocularity I got it back and was on my way.

I have had this reaction in Bkk showing an all of life Thai driving licence, as these have not been available to foreigners or Thais since about 2003.

And by contrast, in Phuket they don't even bat an eye it is so common for foreigners to have Thai DL's here.

Yes, the 5 years licenses, not the 'for life' licenses Arkady is talking about.

[NomadJoe]

Arkady, on 07 May 2013 - 12:24, said:

Thailand has only ratified the first agreement on international licenses of 1948 I think which means that int'l licenses are only valid in Thailand if no less than 3 months old. Insurance cos in Thailand have been known to use this loophole to avoid paying out when the driver used an int'l licence more than 3 months old and didn't have a Thai one. It is a joke anyway for English language licences because it doesn't include a Thai translation.

The 1949 Geneva Convention (the same one which also determined how prisoners are treated, rules of war etc) wasn't the first which addressed standardization of road rules licensing and such. There is a 1926 convention as well. These agreements (treaties) are not done in stages. Each country follows one or the other, however a previous one can be made moot if a country decides to participate in a more current one. But for Thailand, indeed most countries still fall under the 1949 treaty.

I assume that what you mean by "no less than 3 months old", is that a person who has recently entered Thailand but as in the scenario discussed earlier, i.e. was a resident on day one due to visa class, and is driving on a home license (with or without IDP doesn't matter) for more than 3 months. Yeah, I could see that being a problem.

Board member Richard-BKK has a pretty good description of all the treaties, thier relationships, and how they pertain to Thailand on his site here: http://www.motorcycle.in.th/wiki/doku.php/international_drivers_license

stevenl, on 07 May 2013 - 12:57, said:

NomadJoe, on 07 May 2013 - 12:40, said:

Arkady, on 07 May 2013 - 12:26, said:

I have had this reaction in Bkk showing an all of life Thai driving licence, as these have not been available to foreigners or Thais since about 2003.

And by contrast, in Phuket they don't even bat an eye it is so common for foreigners to have Thai DL's here.

Yes, the 5 years licenses, not the 'for life' licenses Arkady is talking about.

Ah yes, didn't catch that bit. I had forgotten they once issued those.

Edited May 7, 2013 by NomadJoe

[VBF]

I thought the rules were that:

1. a tourist can supply his own country's licence, but

2. an expat - i.e. someone staying here longer than 90 days - must have an international licence (which is only valid for a year) and then must get a Thai license.

So what about my situation (and I'm sure other people too):

Non-immigrant multi-entry O visa, staying in Thailand for 6 months then going back to UK to work. Basically SEMI retired.

My apartment rental is stated as "monthly" as I rent from a friend. Single, no kids.

On this visa I must not stay longer than 90 days, so I choose to stay for up to 90 days, go to Cambodia or Vietnam or wherever for a month, back here for 90 days.

Visa-wise all totally legal.

I have a UK license, and an IDP both for cars - I never drive motorcycles.

I believe I'm legal to drive rentals and friends cars with their permission of course.

What do others think?

You have an IDP so you are perfectly legal, but why don't you get a Thai licence? As mentioned above it's easy with an IDP, it's cheap and takes a couple of hours to do. The licence is also acceptable (usually!) as a form of ID. You have an O-visa and a rental contract so my advice would be to get one.

Thanks MadMitch - good points. Next time I come over, I will do as you say (leaving in 3 weeks so hardly worth it now!)

One thing I still don't understand is that as a Non- O holder, I CANNOT stay in Thailand more than 90 days, but others above think that I cannot be a tourist on a Non-O.

On the other hand, Nomad Joe - you say that I have 90 days to apply for a Thai DL, in which case I will ALWAYS be within the 90 days of my last entry!, so would that make me technically legal?

Amazing!

Edited May 7, 2013 by VBF

[stevenl]

I thought the rules were that:

1. a tourist can supply his own country's licence, but

2. an expat - i.e. someone staying here longer than 90 days - must have an international licence (which is only valid for a year) and then must get a Thai license.

So what about my situation (and I'm sure other people too):

Non-immigrant multi-entry O visa, staying in Thailand for 6 months then going back to UK to work. Basically SEMI retired.

My apartment rental is stated as "monthly" as I rent from a friend. Single, no kids.

On this visa I must not stay longer than 90 days, so I choose to stay for up to 90 days, go to Cambodia or Vietnam or wherever for a month, back here for 90 days.

Visa-wise all totally legal.

I have a UK license, and an IDP both for cars - I never drive motorcycles.

I believe I'm legal to drive rentals and friends cars with their permission of course.

What do others think?

You have an IDP so you are perfectly legal, but why don't you get a Thai licence? As mentioned above it's easy with an IDP, it's cheap and takes a couple of hours to do. The licence is also acceptable (usually!) as a form of ID. You have an O-visa and a rental contract so my advice would be to get one.

Thanks - next time I come over, I will (leaving in 3 weeks so hardly worth it now!)

One thing I still don't understand is that as a Non- O holder, I CANNOT stay in Thailand more than 90 days, but others above think that I cannot be a tourist on a Non-O. On the other hand, some people think that i have 90 days to apply, in which case I will ALWAYS be within the 90 days!

Amazing!

On a non-O you are not a tourist, no matter how you describe yourself.

Thai license required in your situation.

[VBF]

Stevenl said "On a non-O you are not a tourist, no matter how you describe yourself.

Thai license required in your situation."

Stevenl - I understand and thanks, but do I still have 90 days grace from my last entry in which to apply? If so, technically I am still legal to drive, am i not?

Edited May 7, 2013 by VBF

[stevenl]

On a non-O you are not a tourist, no matter how you describe yourself.

Thai license required in your situation.

Stevenl -

I understand and thanks, but do I still have 90 days grace from my last entry in which to apply?

No, you had 90 days (if the rule really is 90 days, I think so but am not 100% sure) on your first entry with your first non-immigrant visa.

[VBF]

stevenl, on 07 May 2013 - 14:04, said:

VBF, on 07 May 2013 - 14:01, said:

On a non-O you are not a tourist, no matter how you describe yourself.

Thai license required in your situation.

Stevenl -

I understand and thanks, but do I still have 90 days grace from my last entry in which to apply?

No, you had 90 days (if the rule really is 90 days, I think so but am not 100% sure) on your first entry with your first non-immigrant visa.

I take it you mean 90 days from the first entry on THIS visa? If not, my grace period expired years ago as I do this every year with a new non-immigrant O ! Mind you, I do have a new passport, so this is the first visa in it.

Thanks for your advice - I may well have misunderstood this for several years

Edited May 7, 2013 by VBF

[stevenl]

On a non-O you are not a tourist, no matter how you describe yourself.

Thai license required in your situation.

Stevenl -

I understand and thanks, but do I still have 90 days grace from my last entry in which to apply?

No, you had 90 days (if the rule really is 90 days, I think so but am not 100% sure) on your first entry with your first non-immigrant visa.

I take it you mean 90 days from the first ENTRY on this visa? If not, my grace period expired years ago as i do this every year!

Thanks for your advice - i may well have misunderstood this for several years

No, I mean exactly as written: 90 days from the first entry of your first non-immigrant visa. So if you are on your 3rd visa the 90 days period expired 2 visas ago, if on the same visa with extensions it also expired.

You're not alone, get a Thai DL asap to prevent any problems.

[VBF]

On a non-O you are not a tourist, no matter how you describe yourself.

Thai license required in your situation.

Stevenl -

I understand and thanks, but do I still have 90 days grace from my last entry in which to apply?

No, you had 90 days (if the rule really is 90 days, I think so but am not 100% sure) on your first entry with your first non-immigrant visa.

I take it you mean 90 days from the first ENTRY on this visa? If not, my grace period expired years ago as i do this every year!

Thanks for your advice - i may well have misunderstood this for several years

No, I mean exactly as written: 90 days from the first entry of your first non-immigrant visa. So if you are on your 3rd visa the 90 days period expired 2 visas ago, if on the same visa with extensions it also expired.

You're not alone, get a Thai DL asap to prevent any problems.

Noted! Thanks again

[NomadJoe]

I thought the rules were that:

1. a tourist can supply his own country's licence, but

2. an expat - i.e. someone staying here longer than 90 days - must have an international licence (which is only valid for a year) and then must get a Thai license.

So what about my situation (and I'm sure other people too):

Non-immigrant multi-entry O visa, staying in Thailand for 6 months then going back to UK to work. Basically SEMI retired.

My apartment rental is stated as "monthly" as I rent from a friend. Single, no kids.

On this visa I must not stay longer than 90 days, so I choose to stay for up to 90 days, go to Cambodia or Vietnam or wherever for a month, back here for 90 days.

Visa-wise all totally legal.

I have a UK license, and an IDP both for cars - I never drive motorcycles.

I believe I'm legal to drive rentals and friends cars with their permission of course.

What do others think?

You have an IDP so you are perfectly legal, but why don't you get a Thai licence? As mentioned above it's easy with an IDP, it's cheap and takes a couple of hours to do. The licence is also acceptable (usually!) as a form of ID. You have an O-visa and a rental contract so my advice would be to get one.

Thanks MadMitch - good points. Next time I come over, I will do as you say (leaving in 3 weeks so hardly worth it now!)

One thing I still don't understand is that as a Non- O holder, I CANNOT stay in Thailand more than 90 days, but others above think that I cannot be a tourist on a Non-O.

On the other hand, Nomad Joe - you say that I have 90 days to apply for a Thai DL, in which case I will ALWAYS be within the 90 days of my last entry!, so would that make me technically legal?

Amazing!

I am saying you have 90 (or 60 or whatever it is, sources differ) days from the time you establish residency to get a Thai DL.