Montclair Wine

[grumpyoldman]

'Fresco' I think it's called, but it clearly states that it's a fruit wine... Available anywhere from 7-11 to Tesco and Tops...

Found another 5 star hotel here in BKK flogging Jump Yards off as wine, disappointing to say the least...

It's all about margins, you were probably paying for one glass what they get the bottle for.

[GrantSmith]

'Fresco' I think it's called, but it clearly states that it's a fruit wine... Available anywhere from 7-11 to Tesco and Tops...

Found another 5 star hotel here in BKK flogging Jump Yards off as wine, disappointing to say the least...

It's all about margins, you were probably paying for one glass what they get the bottle for.

Rest assured grumpy, I wouldn't betray my palate in such a way

[xylophone]

'Fresco' I think it's called, but it clearly states that it's a fruit wine... Available anywhere from 7-11 to Tesco and Tops...

Found another 5 star hotel here in BKK flogging Jump Yards off as wine, disappointing to say the least...

They probably don't know the difference GS as it is not clearly stated that the contents don't all derive from grapes, although there should be no excuse for ignorance at a 5 star hotel.

[GrantSmith]

'Fresco' I think it's called, but it clearly states that it's a fruit wine... Available anywhere from 7-11 to Tesco and Tops...

Found another 5 star hotel here in BKK flogging Jump Yards off as wine, disappointing to say the least...

They probably don't know the difference GS as it is not clearly stated that the contents don't all derive from grapes, although there should be no excuse for ignorance at a 5 star hotel.

Absolutely no excuse for a 5 star hotel to be taking their guests for mugs...

[JetsetBkk]

I see that Montclair 5L boxes have gone down in price (in Big C Patong anyway) to around 860 baht.............perhaps the Army have intervened to get the price down as part of the "Bring happiness to the Thai people" campaign!

OOPS.............that was a short burst of happiness, as the price is back up to 969 baht now!!

Dämn! 860 was better than Makro, if I recall correctly.

[xylophone]

I see that Montclair 5L boxes have gone down in price (in Big C Patong anyway) to around 860 baht.............perhaps the Army have intervened to get the price down as part of the "Bring happiness to the Thai people" campaign!

OOPS.............that was a short burst of happiness, as the price is back up to 969 baht now!!

Dämn! 860 was better than Makro, if I recall correctly.

Yeah, sorry about that as I thought it was a "new price" but seems to have been a mistake on the part of Big C here!!

[JetsetBkk]

I see that Montclair 5L boxes have gone down in price (in Big C Patong anyway) to around 860 baht.............perhaps the Army have intervened to get the price down as part of the "Bring happiness to the Thai people" campaign!

OOPS.............that was a short burst of happiness, as the price is back up to 969 baht now!!

Dämn! 860 was better than Makro, if I recall correctly.

Yeah, sorry about that as I thought it was a "new price" but seems to have been a mistake on the part of Big C here!!

That's odd because I can't think of any other 5L box that Big C sells at that price. Perhaps the staff were ex-employees of Makro?

I did wonder if that price was the recommended price in Big C in other provinces. But it isn't:

http://shoppingonline.bigc.co.th/catalogsearch/result/index/q/wine%205l/?p=15

[hkt83100]

Dämn! 860 was better than Makro, if I recall correctly.

Today I have seen it for 848 Baht @ Makro Patong. Red or white same same.

[JetsetBkk]

Dämn! 860 was better than Makro, if I recall correctly.

Today I have seen it for 848 Baht @ Makro Patong. Red or white same same.

Yes, I couldn't remember if I last paid 868 or 848. (Drinking it now with some English Cheddar and crackers, while watching the tennis. Aroy!)

[grumpyoldman]

Dämn! 860 was better than Makro, if I recall correctly.

Today I have seen it for 848 Baht @ Makro Patong. Red or white same same.

Yes, I couldn't remember if I last paid 868 or 848. (Drinking it now with some English Cheddar and crackers, while watching the tennis. Aroy!)

French paradox aside, remember to get off the couch and get a little exercise to move that English Cheddar along. Maybe some footy?

[Old Croc]

[GrantSmith]

Here's a creative label, granted it's not available in Thailand (to the best of my knowledge), it's ballsy with salty stone fruit notes and definitely not kosher

[xylophone]

post-92090-0-47916600-1404013583_thumb.jpg

oops.jpg

I too decided to get off the couch and do some exercise (as per GOM's post) as was drinking far too much wine and not exercising at all.

Although I did not look like the character in your first picture, I was well out of condition having finished my playing career at the age of 45, although I did play at a fairly high standard in my younger days (played friendlies against Chelsea and Crystal Palace at one time) and I thought there would be nothing to it, so I decided to play seven a side on a local Astroturf pitch one evening.

After about 15 min my right calf muscle tightened up so that I could only limp around the place (have torn that one some 10 times plus) so I decided to take a turn in goal and being the "full on" person I am, age did not deter me (was then 66) I was into it and diving at players feet when they got in the penalty area, only to find that I popped a shoulder joint whilst falling over quite heavily.

Off home to console myself with some red wine, and the next day a couple of visits to get x-rays on the shoulder and treatment on the calf..............the body had moved on to its 66 years of age, but the mind was still around 30, so now I have settled back into the red wine routine with a clear conscience!

[funKycow]

Primo Estate is a very underrated winery. The cellar door itself is quite stunning in a modern contemporary way.

As for the cork, it sounds like a synthetic cork, a craze that was going around about that time, but without a picture to confirm I'll be stabbing in the dark.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Hi GS, no it's not a synthetic cork, but a real one and good quality (and long).

Have seen many types of "cork" and this is the genuine article........with that little added extra coating at both ends. IMO it makes good sense!

Hi xylophone, first time poster to the forum...

Not sure if you may have had a ProCork in that bottle? I remember hearing about something similar a few years back, and came across their site. Sounds like a cork with some sort of "sealant" layer that would probably look like a thin plastic layer?

http://procork.com/technical/the-science-behind-it/

Just a question about the "fruit wine" discussion: Does anyone know if there are "rules" as to how much fruit juice is needed for getting a "tax break"? Does it have to be just a splash, or say 25% of the blend? Also, would it apply to grape-wine with fruit juice added after fermentation is completed, or must the 'other fruit' component be fermented as well?

I'm still trying to wrap my mind around how these products look, feel & taste... I agree that so long as the products identify themselves appropriately it is up to the consumer to decide what they want & like. However, labelling regulations across the world stipulate that the consumer must not be 'mislead' into thinking what a product is.

[xylophone]

Primo Estate is a very underrated winery. The cellar door itself is quite stunning in a modern contemporary way.

As for the cork, it sounds like a synthetic cork, a craze that was going around about that time, but without a picture to confirm I'll be stabbing in the dark.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Hi GS, no it's not a synthetic cork, but a real one and good quality (and long).

Have seen many types of "cork" and this is the genuine article........with that little added extra coating at both ends. IMO it makes good sense!

Hi xylophone, first time poster to the forum...

Not sure if you may have had a ProCork in that bottle? I remember hearing about something similar a few years back, and came across their site. Sounds like a cork with some sort of "sealant" layer that would probably look like a thin plastic layer?

http://procork.com/technical/the-science-behind-it/

Just a question about the "fruit wine" discussion: Does anyone know if there are "rules" as to how much fruit juice is needed for getting a "tax break"? Does it have to be just a splash, or say 25% of the blend? Also, would it apply to grape-wine with fruit juice added after fermentation is completed, or must the 'other fruit' component be fermented as well?

I'm still trying to wrap my mind around how these products look, feel & taste... I agree that so long as the products identify themselves appropriately it is up to the consumer to decide what they want & like. However, labelling regulations across the world stipulate that the consumer must not be 'mislead' into thinking what a product is.

Hello funKycow and welcome, and thank you so much for choosing the Montclair wine thread because what you have described and posted the link on, is exactly what I was trying to describe.

Have never seen that before and great to learn something new, so many thanks for the info.

Ah the fruit wine conundrum, something I have thought about quite often since finding out about it. I too have wondered just how much fruit juice is added and whether it is added to the finished product or whether it is fermented with it.

It would appear as if producers of Montclair do not want it to be widely known, therefore it is carefully hidden on their wine boxes, however there is at least one producer who clearly states on the box that it is a mixture of a couple of grape varieties plus fruit juice, so I may well just try and contact them to find out, or if GrantSmith reads this, perhaps he would be more successful as he has many contacts in the wine business in Australia.

As for the taste, grab a bottle of the Montclair or Mar Y Sol wine at about 299 baht per bottle and give it a go, as there is nothing like first-hand experience!

[GrantSmith]

Hi xylophone, first time poster to the forum...

Not sure if you may have had a ProCork in that bottle? I remember hearing about something similar a few years back, and came across their site. Sounds like a cork with some sort of "sealant" layer that would probably look like a thin plastic layer?

http://procork.com/technical/the-science-behind-it/

Just a question about the "fruit wine" discussion: Does anyone know if there are "rules" as to how much fruit juice is needed for getting a "tax break"? Does it have to be just a splash, or say 25% of the blend? Also, would it apply to grape-wine with fruit juice added after fermentation is completed, or must the 'other fruit' component be fermented as well?

I'm still trying to wrap my mind around how these products look, feel & taste... I agree that so long as the products identify themselves appropriately it is up to the consumer to decide what they want & like. However, labelling regulations across the world stipulate that the consumer must not be 'mislead' into thinking what a product is.

Hello funKycow and welcome, and thank you so much for choosing the Montclair wine thread because what you have described and posted the link on, is exactly what I was trying to describe.

Have never seen that before and great to learn something new, so many thanks for the info.

Ah the fruit wine conundrum, something I have thought about quite often since finding out about it. I too have wondered just how much fruit juice is added and whether it is added to the finished product or whether it is fermented with it.

It would appear as if producers of Montclair do not want it to be widely known, therefore it is carefully hidden on their wine boxes, however there is at least one producer who clearly states on the box that it is a mixture of a couple of grape varieties plus fruit juice, so I may well just try and contact them to find out, or if GrantSmith reads this, perhaps he would be more successful as he has many contacts in the wine business in Australia.

As for the taste, grab a bottle of the Montclair or Mar Y Sol wine at about 299 baht per bottle and give it a go, as there is nothing like first-hand experience!

Hahaha finally, the conundrum is solved!

As for the Fruit Wine fiasco, I don't have anicdotal evidence to suggest anything either way but from my experience this importation of grapes and fruit juice here was originally done due to the excessive Import Tariffs imposed on most wine producing countries (Australia is now all but excluded due to the TAFTA - Thailand Australia Free Trade Agreement)

Now the tax break they would have received would have saved from importing only the grapes or unfermented grape juice would have been massive. The reason for this massive saving was because the grapes or grape juice were unfermented and therefore alcohol free so not grabbing the attention of Customs and Excise because for all intents and purposes it was a juice or fruit product.

Further savings are achieved because the finished product is produced in Thailand. Manufacturing, bottling, production and human resources all give cost savings when compared with the origin of the product.

As for the fermentation process, I would imagine it's added after fermentation, the reason I say this is the fermentation process with other fruits would more than likely increase the alcohol volume to somewhere around a "spirit" level. Adding it after would maintain the alc%vol.

Now that the Excise Department via the Ministry of Finance has raised the Excise Tax this Fruit Wine loophole is all but closed. I would imagine the production process has also increased with the increase of the daily minimum wage.

As far as "rules" go, there aren't many that give a particular product a "tax break" but the lower the wholesale selling price (600 baht and under is taxed lower than wines that are 600 baht and above) the lower the excise tax is.

As I've said before, I don't have a problem with Fruit Wine, what I have a problem with is those selling this product are selling it as Wine. That's wrong and a flagrant disrespect for the Wine industry which is ironic given that the biggest producer of these products also owns one of the more successful locally produced Wines.

[xylophone]

Excellent information, thanks GS.

[grumpyoldman]

"Now that the Excise Department via the Ministry of Finance has raised the Excise Tax this Fruit Wine loophole is all but closed."

I'm going to politely disagree here. You will find more and more of these products coming on the market as it's the only way with the current tax rules to get wines to the consumer under 300thb.

​Xylophone, very much enjoyed the reply to the footy player photo.

[GrantSmith]

"Now that the Excise Department via the Ministry of Finance has raised the Excise Tax this Fruit Wine loophole is all but closed."

I'm going to politely disagree here. You will find more and more of these products coming on the market as it's the only way with the current tax rules to get wines to the consumer under 300thb.

Interesting perspective grumpyoldman and we'll have to agree to disagree, politely of course

At face value and if this revised tax equation stays for long term, I don't see it being sustainable. The revised tax equation hits everyone from the fruit wine to the high-octane-punch-you-in-the-face-shiraz-from-barossa-valley and then some more. Perhaps these companies importing/distributing these fruit wines are using them as a loss leading strategy in order to lower the costs of other products which could then make the product to be sustainable.

At the end of the day, basing the tax equation around a hypothetical price point is asking for trouble.

[xylophone]

Please forgive me GrantSmith, but perhaps I am just a little bit thicker than normal today!

You say that the tax equation now hits everybody, yet if a company were just to import pure fruit juice (grape or otherwise), surely they wouldn't be charged the same duty on this fruit juice as they would on an alcoholic product?

Quote GS: "Now that the Excise Department via the Ministry of Finance has raised the Excise Tax this Fruit Wine loophole is all but closed" and "The reason for this massive saving was because the grapes or grape juice were unfermented and therefore alcohol free so not grabbing the attention of Customs and Excise because for all intents and purposes it was a juice or fruit product".

Perhaps I'm missing something in the whole equation and would be keen to learn more if you have the time to explain further.

[GrantSmith]

Please forgive me GrantSmith, but perhaps I am just a little bit thicker than normal today!

You say that the tax equation now hits everybody, yet if a company were just to import pure fruit juice (grape or otherwise), surely they wouldn't be charged the same duty on this fruit juice as they would on an alcoholic product?

Quote GS: "Now that the Excise Department via the Ministry of Finance has raised the Excise Tax this Fruit Wine loophole is all but closed" and "The reason for this massive saving was because the grapes or grape juice were unfermented and therefore alcohol free so not grabbing the attention of Customs and Excise because for all intents and purposes it was a juice or fruit product".

Perhaps I'm missing something in the whole equation and would be keen to learn more if you have the time to explain further.

Import Taxes / Duty is different to the Excise Tax.

The old excise tax calculation was a simple 60% of the CIF price, which would be quite low given the local production.

With the new calculation, the product is taxed based on a hypothetical wholesale price. It then gets complicated from there with additional taxation for products that are over certain price points.

The below is a nutshell view of the equation

a = b + (c or d [whichever is higher]) + e [if you have an abv% above 15%]

a = tax

b = wholesale price [if your wholesale price is below 600 baht b = 0, if above 600 baht b = 36% of that wholesale price]

c = is the baht per litre per 100% abv, so you then have to work out the figure based on the products abv% and volume

d = is baht per liter and is a flat rate per liter

e = the additional tax per additonal abv% over 15%

c - effects regular bottles

d - effects bulk/box wine

Not sure if that's made it a bit clearer or just really bamboozled you, it took me awhile to digest the whole thing.

[grumpyoldman]

Clearly GS you have more knowledge than I regarding this tax topic. But as these fruit wines are bottled in Vietnam, does that under the Asean Treaty not adjust the tax %'s ?

[xylophone]

Please forgive me GrantSmith, but perhaps I am just a little bit thicker than normal today!

You say that the tax equation now hits everybody, yet if a company were just to import pure fruit juice (grape or otherwise), surely they wouldn't be charged the same duty on this fruit juice as they would on an alcoholic product?

Quote GS: "Now that the Excise Department via the Ministry of Finance has raised the Excise Tax this Fruit Wine loophole is all but closed" and "The reason for this massive saving was because the grapes or grape juice were unfermented and therefore alcohol free so not grabbing the attention of Customs and Excise because for all intents and purposes it was a juice or fruit product".

Perhaps I'm missing something in the whole equation and would be keen to learn more if you have the time to explain further.

Import Taxes / Duty is different to the Excise Tax.

The old excise tax calculation was a simple 60% of the CIF price, which would be quite low given the local production.

With the new calculation, the product is taxed based on a hypothetical wholesale price. It then gets complicated from there with additional taxation for products that are over certain price points.

The below is a nutshell view of the equation

a = b + (c or d [whichever is higher]) + e [if you have an abv% above 15%]

a = tax

b = wholesale price [if your wholesale price is below 600 baht b = 0, if above 600 baht b = 36% of that wholesale price]

c = is the baht per litre per 100% abv, so you then have to work out the figure based on the products abv% and volume

d = is baht per liter and is a flat rate per liter

e = the additional tax per additonal abv% over 15%

c - effects regular bottles

d - effects bulk/box wine

Not sure if that's made it a bit clearer or just really bamboozled you, it took me awhile to digest the whole thing.

Many thanks for that GS and I think I've got the gist of it now.

So basing the tax on the wholesale price would be the reason that the local producers can get away with a fairly low price, because their overheads are so low, and it would also apply to the wine being fermented and bottled in Vietnam.

Not so with the wines produced in Australia which also have a fruit juice element in them, because labour costs and packaging etc would be higher. However if they were cheap to begin with then perhaps there is a very slight margin to be had and it is also a way to be able to offload wine overproduction so at least the winemaker gets something for his product.

I do notice that more and more of these cask wines are being "produced" by Siam or similar wineries in Thailand, so perhaps there is still a margin for them in this despite the new tax changes?

Once again thank you for taking the time to explain this.........on this Sunday morning, with just a modicum of Australian Shiraz imbibed last night which has not affected any more brain cells, I think I've got it!!!!!

[GrantSmith]

Clearly GS you have more knowledge than I regarding this tax topic. But as these fruit wines are bottled in Vietnam, does that under the Asean Treaty not adjust the tax %'s ?

If imported from Vietnam such as Belleville and Jump Yards the AFTA will reduce only the import duty. The excise tax takes no prisoners.

For those produced locally (Montclair and Berri Estate) these are only affected by the excise tax.

[xylophone]

Please forgive me GrantSmith, but perhaps I am just a little bit thicker than normal today!

You say that the tax equation now hits everybody, yet if a company were just to import pure fruit juice (grape or otherwise), surely they wouldn't be charged the same duty on this fruit juice as they would on an alcoholic product?

Quote GS: "Now that the Excise Department via the Ministry of Finance has raised the Excise Tax this Fruit Wine loophole is all but closed" and "The reason for this massive saving was because the grapes or grape juice were unfermented and therefore alcohol free so not grabbing the attention of Customs and Excise because for all intents and purposes it was a juice or fruit product".

Perhaps I'm missing something in the whole equation and would be keen to learn more if you have the time to explain further.

Import Taxes / Duty is different to the Excise Tax.

The old excise tax calculation was a simple 60% of the CIF price, which would be quite low given the local production.

With the new calculation, the product is taxed based on a hypothetical wholesale price. It then gets complicated from there with additional taxation for products that are over certain price points.

The below is a nutshell view of the equation

a = b + (c or d [whichever is higher]) + e [if you have an abv% above 15%]

a = tax

b = wholesale price [if your wholesale price is below 600 baht b = 0, if above 600 baht b = 36% of that wholesale price]

c = is the baht per litre per 100% abv, so you then have to work out the figure based on the products abv% and volume

d = is baht per liter and is a flat rate per liter

e = the additional tax per additonal abv% over 15%

c - effects regular bottles

d - effects bulk/box wine

Not sure if that's made it a bit clearer or just really bamboozled you, it took me awhile to digest the whole thing.

Many thanks for that GS and I think I've got the gist of it now.

So basing the tax on the wholesale price would be the reason that the local producers can get away with a fairly low price, because their overheads are so low, and it would also apply to the wine being fermented and bottled in Vietnam.

Not so with the wines produced in Australia which also have a fruit juice element in them, because labour costs and packaging etc would be higher. However if they were cheap to begin with then perhaps there is a very slight margin to be had and it is also a way to be able to offload wine overproduction so at least the winemaker gets something for his product.

I do notice that more and more of these cask wines are being "produced" by Siam or similar wineries in Thailand, so perhaps there is still a margin for them in this despite the new tax changes?

Once again thank you for taking the time to explain this.........on this Sunday morning, with just a modicum of Australian Shiraz imbibed last night which has not affected any more brain cells, I think I've got it!!!!!

UPDATE.............I have just read in today's Sunday Nation that the government are considering yet another tax change on wine whereby the base tax used for the calculation will be the retail price of the wine, not the wholesale price as it is now!

I would think that this would cause a lot of hassle because it would seem to be easier for the producer/importer to set the wholesale price and keep that pretty standard so that tax would be easily calculated, however if it is the retail price (and this of course can vary) upon which the tax calculation is based, then whatever margin the retailer decides to put on will to a great extent determine the tax paid.

That means that if a retailer decided to have a promotion on a certain range of wines, and wanted to reduce the price, then they will have had to pay tax on the normal retail price, so they will be hit with a double whammy in as much as they will be taxed on the normal retail price, and they will be getting a lower promotional price for the product – – not good in terms of making a profit and most likely means that we won't be seeing any "promo" wines!

I sincerely hope this doesn't come to pass.

[GrantSmith]

Interesting maneuver that couldn't really work. It would drive business into 'on premise' sectors and out of retail.

Xylophone, is there a link to that article?

[JetsetBkk]

I too decided to get off the couch and do some exercise (as per GOM's post) as was drinking far too much wine and not exercising at all.

Although I did not look like the character in your first picture, I was well out of condition having finished my playing career at the age of 45, although I did play at a fairly high standard in my younger days (played friendlies against Chelsea and Crystal Palace at one time) and I thought there would be nothing to it, so I decided to play seven a side on a local Astroturf pitch one evening.

After about 15 min my right calf muscle tightened up so that I could only limp around the place (have torn that one some 10 times plus) so I decided to take a turn in goal and being the "full on" person I am, age did not deter me (was then 66) I was into it and diving at players feet when they got in the penalty area, only to find that I popped a shoulder joint whilst falling over quite heavily.

Off home to console myself with some red wine, and the next day a couple of visits to get x-rays on the shoulder and treatment on the calf..............the body had moved on to its 66 years of age, but the mind was still around 30, so now I have settled back into the red wine routine with a clear conscience!

You're only a year older than me - try walking (slowly) up Khao Toh-Sae in Phuket town - just to the east of Rang Hill.

Lots of wildlife! Monkeys:

...dogs:

- fresh air and a pleasant view, with a guy who sells drinks (alcoholic and non-alcoholic) at the top and even a squirrel who will happily eat peanuts out of your hand, provided the monkeys don't them first:

[xylophone]

I too decided to get off the couch and do some exercise (as per GOM's post) as was drinking far too much wine and not exercising at all.

Although I did not look like the character in your first picture, I was well out of condition having finished my playing career at the age of 45, although I did play at a fairly high standard in my younger days (played friendlies against Chelsea and Crystal Palace at one time) and I thought there would be nothing to it, so I decided to play seven a side on a local Astroturf pitch one evening.

After about 15 min my right calf muscle tightened up so that I could only limp around the place (have torn that one some 10 times plus) so I decided to take a turn in goal and being the "full on" person I am, age did not deter me (was then 66) I was into it and diving at players feet when they got in the penalty area, only to find that I popped a shoulder joint whilst falling over quite heavily.

Off home to console myself with some red wine, and the next day a couple of visits to get x-rays on the shoulder and treatment on the calf..............the body had moved on to its 66 years of age, but the mind was still around 30, so now I have settled back into the red wine routine with a clear conscience!

You're only a year older than me - try walking (slowly) up Khao Toh-Sae in Phuket town - just to the east of Rang Hill.

Lots of wildlife! Monkeys:

...dogs:

- fresh air and a pleasant view, with a guy who sells drinks (alcoholic and non-alcoholic) at the top and even a squirrel who will happily eat peanuts out of your hand, provided the monkeys don't them first:

Thanks for the tip, but got back into tennis and was playing up to 20 games a session in order to get fit, but my tennis partner moved south so now looking around for another one!!

[xylophone]

Interesting maneuver that couldn't really work. It would drive business into 'on premise' sectors and out of retail.

Xylophone, is there a link to that article?

Have tried to locate it online GS but cannot, however I will see if the cafe has yesterdays paper so that I can cut out the article and scan it for you (if you want?).

It was the Sunday Nation and was a column called "Bottles & Banquets" by "JC Eversole" towards the back of the paper in the "lifestyle" type section.

Cheers.

PS. Tried a bottle of "Two Hands" 2008 Barossa Grenache at 16.5% alc. A good wine but not my style with very little depth/layers to it. Also had a "Heritage Rosscos Shiraz" 2005 which only really opened up after 12 hours plus!!

[GrantSmith]

Interesting maneuver that couldn't really work. It would drive business into 'on premise' sectors and out of retail.

Xylophone, is there a link to that article?

Have tried to locate it online GS but cannot, however I will see if the cafe has yesterdays paper so that I can cut out the article and scan it for you (if you want?).

It was the Sunday Nation and was a column called "Bottles & Banquets" by "JC Eversole" towards the back of the paper in the "lifestyle" type section.

Cheers.

PS. Tried a bottle of "Two Hands" 2008 Barossa Grenache at 16.5% alc. A good wine but not my style with very little depth/layers to it. Also had a "Heritage Rosscos Shiraz" 2005 which only really opened up after 12 hours plus!!

Yeah tried to do that yesterday as well but came up with f*** all

Plugged that "Bottle and Banquets" by "JC Eversole" in as well, came up with a couple of outdated articles hahaha... If you can get your hands on it that would be great as I'd be interested to read more about this development...

Yesterday's Hero, 16.5%? Holy mother of christ, that's a big bertha! Hopefully brought in prior to last years tax rise I'm surprised that it's so high, I always thought it was about 2% lighter so had to go and check seems I just never noticed it being so high octane: the 09,10,11 are around 15%. Always an enjoyable wine though, I remember doing a vertical with the cellar door manager last year in their cave was just delicious especially '03 and '06.

As for your Heritage Rossco's taking 12hours to open up? Geez I would've been asleep on the couch with those shenanigans