Montclair Wine

[grumpyoldman]

Thank you for your support on what many people have considered to be an informative and interesting thread. This guy came onto the thread a few pages ago with some sarcastic comments and was, in so many words, politely told to "butt out".

Oh please guy, it's a Forum. In my opinion you continue to go on-and-on about what may or may not have anything to do with Phuket.

Seems to me you need to let everyone know what a wine connoisseur you are more than actually giving out Phuket based information. Also, I followed up my point of your egomania with a positive suggestion, pinned topic. Butt-out............o.k. Beavis.

Now, back on topic. Mont Clair is scheit. if you drink it, you are subjecting yourself to bad wine. If you sell it , it's merely a price point and you are doing disservice to your customers buy pouring this crap.

[Bcgardener]

Everything has a price point usually based on the persons ability to pay. Otherwise we would all drive BMW's or similar and drink Grange or its European equivalent. Just because a person can only afford a cheap wine there is no reason to denigrate their choice.

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[Donnie Brasco]

Sorry, I posted this just as the above post was recieved hence an overlap - it looks like you answered my question, albeit before I asked it.

No problems with the overlap and you are quite right as regards sunshine and soil quality being important for growing grapes. As I said, the humidity would be one of the main problems here, however another one would quite possibly be the moisture content in the soil?

Now I am no expert on grape growing in Thailand, however most of the land I have seen seems to be fairly moist, especially around the cooler regions and one thing that really does make a "good grape" is the fact that the vine goes deep into the soil to pick up the moisture and nutrients that it needs, and generally speaking the deeper the better, without putting too much stress on the vine. A good root system for the vine is very important and I wonder whether the vines grown in Thailand would need to go that deep because moisture and nutrients would be more available nearer the surface.

That is just my take on it, and I could well be wrong, however the moisture part as previously mentioned would almost certainly be true.

The fermentation and the storage environments are ultimately just as critical as sun and soil.

A lot of hot country wine ends up tasting like sherry or worse.

Thais like to spend money on stuff you can see.

Edited July 7, 2013 by Donnie Brasco

[grumpyoldman]

Everything has a price point usually based on the persons ability to pay. Otherwise we would all drive BMW's or similar and drink Grange or its European equivalent. Just because a person can only afford a cheap wine there is no reason to denigrate their choice.

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Was not denigrating your choice Bcgardener, for sure you can choose to drink that and if it's for financial reasons,fair enough.

[xylophone]

Thank you for your support on what many people have considered to be an informative and interesting thread. This guy came onto the thread a few pages ago with some sarcastic comments and was, in so many words, politely told to "butt out".

Oh please guy, it's a Forum. In my opinion you continue to go on-and-on about what may or may not have anything to do with Phuket.

Seems to me you need to let everyone know what a wine connoisseur you are more than actually giving out Phuket based information. Also, I followed up my point of your egomania with a positive suggestion, pinned topic. Butt-out............o.k. Beavis.

Now, back on topic. Mont Clair is scheit. if you drink it, you are subjecting yourself to bad wine. If you sell it , it's merely a price point and you are doing disservice to your customers buy pouring this crap.

Now these comments puzzle me, because there are many other subjects on TV which have nothing to do with the originating forum, just that they are general questions posted by someone resident in an area. The same as there are subjects on the Chiang Mai or Chiang Rai forums (for example) which have nothing to do with those places (e.g. “Customs when purchasing from other countries”; “My New Suzuki”; “Dengue Fever” etc, etc.).

In addition folk like "Crossey" will give out excellent information on electrical questions on any forum, and there are some knowledgeable folk on "visas/immigration etc" who do likewise, irrespective of where the forum/thread originates from. I don't see you chastising these people for sharing their knowledge?

On the point of giving out Phuket-based information, on many posts I have mentioned outlets in Phuket where certain wines can be found.

As for your point about "egomania" followed up by your "positive suggestion", well that was plain sarcasm and you know it.

I don't know how I can put this simply enough for someone like you to understand, but it is a hobby and I enjoy discussing it with others, learning something as I go along and also picking up tips on where to buy certain wines – – other posters have said likewise so why not leave it at that?

By all means pass comment on a particular wine, however the manner in which you have done it is not in keeping with the general tone of this thread, because everyone's tastes are different (not to mention budgets) and you are being rude and damning people by association with it.

What I, or others for that matter, cannot understand is why you bother to visit the thread when it seems to annoy you so much, better for everyone if you just stayed away.

[laislica]

Thank you for your support on what many people have considered to be an informative and interesting thread. This guy came onto the thread a few pages ago with some sarcastic comments and was, in so many words, politely told to "butt out".

Oh please guy, it's a Forum. In my opinion you continue to go on-and-on about what may or may not have anything to do with Phuket.

Seems to me you need to let everyone know what a wine connoisseur you are more than actually giving out Phuket based information. Also, I followed up my point of your egomania with a positive suggestion, pinned topic. Butt-out............o.k. Beavis.

Now, back on topic. Mont Clair is scheit. if you drink it, you are subjecting yourself to bad wine. If you sell it , it's merely a price point and you are doing disservice to your customers buy pouring this crap.

Now these comments puzzle me, because there are many other subjects on TV which have nothing to do with the originating forum, just that they are general questions posted by someone resident in an area. The same as there are subjects on the Chiang Mai or Chiang Rai forums (for example) which have nothing to do with those places (e.g. “Customs when purchasing from other countries”; “My New Suzuki”; “Dengue Fever” etc, etc.).

In addition folk like "Crossey" will give out excellent information on electrical questions on any forum, and there are some knowledgeable folk on "visas/immigration etc" who do likewise, irrespective of where the forum/thread originates from. I don't see you chastising these people for sharing their knowledge?

On the point of giving out Phuket-based information, on many posts I have mentioned outlets in Phuket where certain wines can be found.

As for your point about "egomania" followed up by your "positive suggestion", well that was plain sarcasm and you know it.

I don't know how I can put this simply enough for someone like you to understand, but it is a hobby and I enjoy discussing it with others, learning something as I go along and also picking up tips on where to buy certain wines – – other posters have said likewise so why not leave it at that?

By all means pass comment on a particular wine, however the manner in which you have done it is not in keeping with the general tone of this thread, because everyone's tastes are different (not to mention budgets) and you are being rude and damning people by association with it.

What I, or others for that matter, cannot understand is why you bother to visit the thread when it seems to annoy you so much, better for everyone if you just stayed away.

Well posters, i think that the discussion about post etiquette for this thread has gone on quite long enough.

It is a forum and if any post offends in any way, why not try a PM?

Personally, I think it is a mistake to post a reply in the thread and I will send a PM if I am unable to just ignore it.

Grumpy, I´m not sure if you have been able to read the whole of the thread from the beginning. If you have, you will see that I and many other followers of this thread have actively encourages xylophone to give us more of his excellent info and advice. As you mentioned in a previous post, back to topic - can we all leave it here please, no more replies, PM´s?

[Bcgardener]

As per last post, lets get back onto the subject of wine particularly Mont Clair. I no longer drink this or other box wines because, as per my previous post, I have been told by winemakers that box wines contain much higher levels of sulphates or preservatives due to the type of packaging. In addition, if the wines are imported into Thailand in bulk as I believe MC is then these levels would probably be even higher. I blame these preservatives for following morning headaches even with only drinking 2 or 3 glasses during the evening. I now stay with bottle wines , usually Aussie or Chilean. Also much eadier to keep an eye on your consumption with bottles!

It would be great if we could continue this forum with "wine reviews" by all that have an interest in wine. As we all know, wine is not cheap here so being able to get good info should reduce the chances of wasted purchases. I realise everyones taste is different but, in general, I think a good wine is a good wine. Obviously price is also one of the more important aspects of reviewing a wine. Its not much use saying that a certain wine was terrible compared to another wine costing 3 times as much. Thoughts everyone?

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[laislica]

Enjoying Wine in Thailand - Where to buy - Reviews - Advice - Info - Opinions.

A suggestion for a new "Pinned" thread to be moderated by xylophone - if he is agreeable, of course.

[SeaVisionBurma]

Is this thread not suitable?

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/605478-the-wine-thread/

[Bcgardener]

Perhaps this forum could be moved to the wine thread and just continue under that forum. Doesn't make much sense to start something new. Just a suggestion as I am on even a novice on the workings of TV?

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[andreandre]

Is this thread not suitable?

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/605478-the-wine-thread/

Why on earth should you guys change this thread in any way at all?

220 posts on a subject that obviously has value and interest to those who post.

One grumpy old man comes on, way out of his zone and makes unneccessary, petty, sarcastic comments about its legitimacy , members and content..[even tho he also posted 5-6 times on it himself ] instead of just not reading it himself, and just letting others who enjoy it have their say.

What an absurd situation he has created and for what ?....

[Donnie Brasco]

I was actually learning a lot here.

You know, getting tips and advice.

Just let the old fella play out his cantankerous envy of those who might just know more than he and have the skills and the patience to explain things as they go.

He'll gradually wind down

[grumpyoldman]

I was actually learning a lot here.

You know, getting tips and advice.

Just let the old fella play out his cantankerous envy of those who might just know more than he and have the skills and the patience to explain things as they go.

He'll gradually wind down

Then as pointed out by a mod, why not take it to the wine thread already going where xylophone is already posting? Is that so difficult?

Whats absurd (andreandre) is that you wine about this. Also absurd, when was the last time the OP piped in?

Absurdity in wine in Phuket, a litle Australian guy trying to sell Spanish wine can't remember his name.......(alzheimers and all)........no wait.......Hymen, thats right. When was the last time you saw cases of Spanish wine going out of Villa? Why wouldn't Aussie Hymen sell Aussie wine?

[eezergood]

I was actually learning a lot here.

You know, getting tips and advice.

Just let the old fella play out his cantankerous envy of those who might just know more than he and have the skills and the patience to explain things as they go.

He'll gradually wind down

Then as pointed out by a mod, why not take it to the wine thread already going where xylophone is already posting? Is that so difficult?

Whats absurd (andreandre) is that you wine about this. Also absurd, when was the last time the OP piped in?

Absurdity in wine in Phuket, a litle Australian guy trying to sell Spanish wine can't remember his name.......(alzheimers and all)........no wait.......Hymen, thats right. When was the last time you saw cases of Spanish wine going out of Villa? Why wouldn't Aussie Hymen sell Aussie wine?

I think Jon sells more than just Spanish wines! I KNOW so, but Spanish wines offer great value for money now.

I am not a wine sales person, if I was I would be dead by now!

[Bcgardener]

If we are to have wine thread it may be better in that forum. That way we can keep on subject (hopefuly) without any localised discussions between Phuket residents. They are not really interesting to me, in Rayong.

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[xylophone]

If we are to have wine thread it may be better in that forum. That way we can keep on subject (hopefuly) without any localised discussions between Phuket residents. They are not really interesting to me, in Rayong.

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

I think that suggestion has merit and I am currently liaising with one of the mods to see what can be done, however at this stage it appears that merging of the threads would be very difficult and probably not the best way to go. Having said that there are other options which I have asked the mod about, so watch this space.

It won't stop a certain person posting insults or, (quote), "unnecessary, petty, sarcastic comments about its legitimacy , members and content", but I guess that's just the nature of the person and could continue on any thread.

[xylophone]

As per last post, lets get back onto the subject of wine particularly Mont Clair. I no longer drink this or other box wines because, as per my previous post, I have been told by winemakers that box wines contain much higher levels of sulphates or preservatives due to the type of packaging. In addition, if the wines are imported into Thailand in bulk as I believe MC is then these levels would probably be even higher. I blame these preservatives for following morning headaches even with only drinking 2 or 3 glasses during the evening. I now stay with bottle wines , usually Aussie or Chilean. Also much eadier to keep an eye on your consumption with bottles!

It would be great if we could continue this forum with "wine reviews" by all that have an interest in wine. As we all know, wine is not cheap here so being able to get good info should reduce the chances of wasted purchases. I realise everyones taste is different but, in general, I think a good wine is a good wine. Obviously price is also one of the more important aspects of reviewing a wine. Its not much use saying that a certain wine was terrible compared to another wine costing 3 times as much. Thoughts everyone?

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Good point about the preservatives in boxed wine, because as I said before, it was something I had never really thought about, but now I have thanks to your input. I also stopped drinking a few boxed wines because of the headaches which ensued after just a few glasses. My favourite is still the Chilean one I have mentioned numerous occasions.

Like you I also try and stick mainly to the bottled wines and regularly seek out new ones to try, however try to look for "bargains" and have come across a few in my search, which makes it all worth while (and have shared on this thread). The reason I try and stay at a certain price point is not always because of price, but because I am loathe to spend, for example, 1000 baht on a bottle of wine only to find that it is "off" or similarly affected, and to find that I cannot take it back and have to live with it.

In addition to that I remember spending around 1500 baht on what I thought would be a fairly nice drinkable Burgundy, only to find that although it was not "off" it had aged beyond the point that it should have done, probably because of poor storage here, and was not a pleasant experience at all..........and 1500 baht down the drain!!

[Bcgardener]

^{My "price point" is usually under 500 baht and that normally gives a fairly good selection especially if you do stay with the special promotions. Although I am always a little wary of these as my Thai supermarket has a tendency to have promotions on wines that are past their best i.e. recently a NZ Marlborough 2009 Sauv Blanc which could have gone either way since that date. With the more expensive wines, particularly the Australian and NZ ones that I know best, it's just something in me that I can't bring myself to pay 3 or 4 times over the odds for the wine. I go to Australia 2 or 3 times a year for work so always stock up then. In the under 500 Baht (450 to be exact) I think the Grant Burge range offers good value and also worth trying as is any Australian wines under that 500 mark that doesn't have "South Eastern Australia" as the origin. Most of these grapes are sourced from heavily irrigated vineyards so, although the wine is consistent, you don't get to find any "nice surprises". I also like a lot of the Chilean wines and most offer very good value.}

[laislica]

OK, confession time:

We are currently Swanning around in the south east of Spain but very busy with necessary paperwork.

However, yesterday I popped into a local supermarket and bought a bottle of Pata Negra, Gran Reserva 2005 a Valdepeñas, 13% by volumn.

The cork was real, not a composite.

The wine was darker than purple.

Not much nose but tasted of cherries and plums.

We both enjoyed it from lunch time until it was finished by bed time.

I must admit that I had the Lions share since my wife doesn´t support alcohol very well.

The wine was delicious alone or with food and was particularly good with cheese, a ripe Brie and some Roquefort.

We are out visiting friends today but I will be back and snag a case or two more.

At 3 Euros a bottle - how we suffer!!

I also bought a Monte Ducay Reserva 2009, Cariñene 13%, €2.85, but have yet to try it.

I will keep you posted.

Just a side note on price;

It´s definitely the Most expensive bottle of wine that I ever bought!

Taxi to airport 1,500 B

Air Fare 60,000 b

Transport home 6,000 b

Let´s say 100Kb overall, thank goodness that it was a really great wine.

[grumpyoldman]

If we are to have wine thread it may be better in that forum. That way we can keep on subject (hopefuly) without any localised discussions between Phuket residents. They are not really interesting to me, in Rayong.

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I think that suggestion has merit and I am currently liaising with one of the mods to see what can be done, however at this stage it appears that merging of the threads would be very difficult and probably not the best way to go. Having said that there are other options which I have asked the mod about, so watch this space.

It won't stop a certain person posting insults or, (quote), "unnecessary, petty, sarcastic comments about its legitimacy , members and content", but I guess that's just the nature of the person and could continue on any thread.

O.K. sounds like a good thing.

Turning the forum into a personal blog I don't think is in good spirit Hymen.

Without a doubt the Spain wanderings post 229 needs to be in the wine thread, completely nothing to do with Mont Clair or Phuket.

[xylophone]

If we are to have wine thread it may be better in that forum. That way we can keep on subject (hopefuly) without any localised discussions between Phuket residents. They are not really interesting to me, in Rayong.

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

I think that suggestion has merit and I am currently liaising with one of the mods to see what can be done, however at this stage it appears that merging of the threads would be very difficult and probably not the best way to go. Having said that there are other options which I have asked the mod about, so watch this space.

It won't stop a certain person posting insults or, (quote), "unnecessary, petty, sarcastic comments about its legitimacy , members and content", but I guess that's just the nature of the person and could continue on any thread.

O.K. sounds like a good thing.

Turning the forum into a personal blog I don't think is in good spirit Hymen.

Without a doubt the Spain wanderings post 229 needs to be in the wine thread, completely nothing to do with Mont Clair or Phuket.

Good, at least we agree on something, and I think the mods realised this earlier, but decided to let it run because it was quite an active and well supported thread.

However I am completely baffled by the second sentence..........have I missed something??

[LivinginKata]

Maybe best that this particular topic stays in Phuket forum as it relates to wine available in Phuket,.

This has been an educational and very good topic. But any more off topic posts will be removed without notice.

[JetsetBkk]

Interesting thread.

So, as an update, what's the best box wine available in Thailand ?

I notice that people often aren't (any longer) saying where they buy their wines. I'm sure some have said so in the past, but it would be useful if you could say so again, as searching the thread is quite difficult.

Thanks v. much if you can.

[eezergood]

Interesting thread.

So, as an update, what's the best box wine available in Thailand ?

I notice that people often aren't (any longer) saying where they buy their wines. I'm sure some have said so in the past, but it would be useful if you could say so again, as searching the thread is quite difficult.

Thanks v. much if you can.

Had a bottle of Prosecco (cant remeber which, and the bottle is gone) from The red House in Kathu - THB600 ish VERY drinkable for this price point

[xylophone]

^{My "price point" is usually under 500 baht and that normally gives a fairly good selection especially if you do stay with the special promotions. Although I am always a little wary of these as my Thai supermarket has a tendency to have promotions on wines that are past their best i.e. recently a NZ Marlborough 2009 Sauv Blanc which could have gone either way since that date. With the more expensive wines, particularly the Australian and NZ ones that I know best, it's just something in me that I can't bring myself to pay 3 or 4 times over the odds for the wine. I go to Australia 2 or 3 times a year for work so always stock up then. In the under 500 Baht (450 to be exact) I think the Grant Burge range offers good value and also worth trying as is any Australian wines under that 500 mark that doesn't have "South Eastern Australia" as the origin. Most of these grapes are sourced from heavily irrigated vineyards so, although the wine is consistent, you don't get to find any "nice surprises". I also like a lot of the Chilean wines and most offer very good value.}

Seems like we agree on just about everything Bcg, and apart from the occasional rush of blood to the head when I try an expensive wine, I too try and look for wines of around 500 baht and under and even then I know that I could have bought them much cheaper if it wasn't for Thailand's punishing tax regime.

I know what you mean about the supermarkets having special promotions with wine that is past its best, and I noticed yesterday at Big C, a Chardonnay from Argentina I think it was (maybe Chile) on special at 299 baht, however the year was 2007 and the wine was the colour of dark cedar, so I would put good money on it being well over the top. However on other occasions I believe that they have looked at the year on a particular red wine and decided that as it was, say, four years old, then it must be past its best so they put it on special, and I have picked up some very nice red wines indeed when they have done this because some of the better Australian wines, if stored well, are still very good.

Following on from this and answering a question from JetsetBkk, I have found the following wines: –

My favourite red wine in box is Bodegas Centenarias from Chile at 749 baht per 3L box from Makro and Big C; from the Wine Connection, "Rare Vineyards" Cabernet/Shiraz at 499 baht per bottle, and also "Rooks Lane" at 399 baht per bottle are worth sampling; from Villa Market; Ch Belleville 2011 Grenache/Shiraz/Merlot at 295 baht per bottle is an absolute steal, and is a cross between an old world and new world wine; Clos Du Val Cabernet/Merlot/Shiraz/Grenache mix (as far as I can remember?) usually priced around 395 baht per bottle and a very lovely medium weight fruity drinker, and they have occasional specials on which are well worth looking at, which I reluctantly do, this after having a row with them about returning a box wine which had just about disintegrated!

From Big C, when they are having special promotions: – Little Yering 2009 Cabernet/Shiraz at 399 baht a bottle; Taylors Promised Land 2009 Cabernet/Shiraz (or was it Cab/Merlot?) at 499 baht per bottle; Nugan Third Generation Shiraz 2010 at 299 baht per bottle; Taylors 2008 Cabernet Sauvignon at 499 baht per bottle and Santa Helena Carmenere at 399 baht per bottle.

From Supercheap (the really big one in Phuket town): – The Pump 2011 Cab/Shiraz at 295 baht per bottle, although this one has gone downhill in quality since I first started buying it a few years ago; the Grant Burge range which is priced at around 450 baht per bottle; Ogier "Gentilhomme" Cotes du Rhone 2010 at around 500 baht per bottle and a few other "mispriced" (I believe anyway) wines.

That's all I can remember for now, however I hope that helps.

[JetsetBkk]

^ Much appreciated, xylophone.

I used to drink Oxford Landing Cabernet Shiraz (Australian) in the UK but haven't found it here. Don't know if it's considered a good wine, but I loved it!

Edited July 9, 2013 by JetsetBkk

[eezergood]

Little Yerring = Little gem

[Bcgardener]

In agreement again! Anything from Taylor's is definitely worth trying. However I have a low opinion of cheaper French wines but would love to be proved wrong with some recommendations.

I tend to buy most of my wine from Friendship Mart in Pattaya as it is close to home in Ban Chang. Also to a lesser extent Makro or Food land, also in Pattaya. I have always found Villa to be more expensive in Pattaya. Have never tried Wine Connection but it is on my list of things to do.

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[xylophone]

In agreement again! Anything from Taylor's is definitely worth trying. However I have a low opinion of cheaper French wines but would love to be proved wrong with some recommendations.

I tend to buy most of my wine from Friendship Mart in Pattaya as it is close to home in Ban Chang. Also to a lesser extent Makro or Food land, also in Pattaya. I have always found Villa to be more expensive in Pattaya. Have never tried Wine Connection but it is on my list of things to do.

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I know what you mean about the cheaper French wines, and in general I have to agree with you, however some of the producers from the southern area of France (Languedoc) have decided to lift their game and IMO the wines I have mentioned (Ch Belleville 2011 Grenache/Shiraz/Merlot at 295 baht per bottle and Clos Du Val Cabernet/Merlot/Shiraz/Grenache mix (as far as I can remember?) usually priced around 395 baht per bottle and a very lovely medium weight fruity drinker) are well worth a try............can't guarantee that you will like them, and won't reimburse you if you don't!!!!!

But nothing ventured nothing gained, so if you do try them, I would be most interested in your feedback/opinion. For what it's worth, an Australian friend of mine from Phuket who swears by the wines of Australia, has tried this and has now made it his everyday drinking wine, so much so that he makes excursions to Villa Market in Chalong to stock up with quite a few bottles at a time. Have to add the rider that we all have different tastes in wine..........!

[laislica]

I am glad to see that this thread has been strong enough to have it´s cage rattled and survive.

If it doesn´t break you, it makes you stronger. - Thanks Grumpy.

It seems that the other thread mentioned is not very active but this one is, and long may it continue to give fun, help and advice to all those who choose to follow it.

Good wishes, good health and long life to us all.

(I´m worried now that this may be an off topic post which may be removed)

But back to wine.

I just opened toe Monta Ducay, Reserva 2009, Cariñena, 13%.€2.85

Like the Pata Negra, it is also deeper than purple in colour but, it has more nose and more tannins.

The flavours seem to be masked by the tannins, Possibly not as fruity as the Pata Negra, but perhaps I should try it again and save 15 cents over the Pata Negra?

Again a real cork and well presented. The bottle is wrapped in a paper cover.

I remember trying an Oseria ( I hope I got the spelling right) from Lidl a few years ago. It was superb, smooth, full of flavour and a good friend to the taste buds.

I bought 12 cases. A friend? In my village enjoyed it so much he blagged a case off me, only to return an inferior wine.

However, there are no accidents in this universe. I took the car and returned to Lidl to buy more, but to my horror, there were only 6 bottles left.

Therefore, I went to every Lidl in the city and bought all that was available, some 20 cases (6 per case).

I had the perfect storage area for them but needn´t have worried about storage conditions.

Suddenly we had so many visits from friend that it was just gone?

A short drive north from here is a Bodega where I can buy a Jumillo from the tank!

About €1.00 per liter, provide your own vessel.

14%, smooth and very drinkable. Also available in a box of 15 Liter.

I had to stop buying it because a box like that, in a nice climate is far too tempting.

Have a glass, fill it, no problem.

Visitor arrives, offer wine, top up own glass, no problem.

Repeat this process every day.....

Problem......

Too much of a good thing?

I would like to raise my glass to X and all the other good friends that I have met on this thread for all the great sport that we have, not forgetting to thank Mr Grumpy for rattling our cage and causing us to consolidate and get stronger. I love you Grumpy - you did good.

Never mind where this thread is, it´s just a great thread and thanks to all who post here.