On Us citizenship....can anybody answer do I automatically qualify for US citizenship if my Father is a citizen?

Assuming this to be the case can I then get my children US citizenship obviously after I get mine?

I lived in the States for 15 years but failed to apply for citizenship prior to leaving...I now have 2 boys that have never been to the states.

Is it as easy as doing some paperwork here to apply in both cases or am I barking up the wrong tree??

The US also has a physical presence test as well. So if your father is a US citizen, you would need to prove that he was a US citizen and that your father lived inside the US for at least 5 years (if memory serves me correctly)

Then once you have your citizenship, in order to give your kids US citizenship, you would also new to prove you spent 5 years living in US

On point I am not sure about, is whether you can use time spent in US before you received you US citizenship or will have to show 5 years after the period where you received your citizenship?

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I do not understand why all these people with nothing or the wrong things to say keep posting answers.

The question is easy. The answer is, you need to fill Form I-407 (download from internet) and sign it under oath at the US embassy. That will be the date of renunciation. Next, you ned to file Form 8854 with the IRS and submit it in your final US tax return. If you do not do this you will have relinquished your US nationality but still remain a taxpayer, as odd as that sounds. Expatriation may come with US tax penalties, depending on your net worth and on your last 5 years's average taxable income. Items such as 401Ks and other forms of deferred compensation tend to be hit regardless.

For all the slow-minded ones who keep posting stuff about tax without knowing anything about tax: although the tax rates are similar, the main point is that Thailand does not tax worldwide income, and the US does. In Thailand you do not pay tax on income that is sourced outside of Thailand and not brought back into the country in the year in which it is earned. Second, if you manage to spend more than 183 days outside of Thailand you are treated as a non-resident and you can remit into Thailand any income earned abroad. However, if you are a non-resident you still pay Thai tax on income derived within Thailand, regardless of where the income is paid.

So TAX is the big reason why someone would relinquish US citizenship (other than to want to move to Cuba or North Korea). The fact also is that it is much easier to conceal income from the Thai tax authorities than it is from the US tax authorities, especially after FATCA.

Clear?

@NanLaew - WWT is the law that make US citizens pay US income taxes from anywhere in the world.

@kurtmartens - Right now I have US Medicare Advantage which is full-blown medical insurance for about US$100 a month. I manage to maintain US residency to keep it. All I have to do is be well enough to set foot on US soil and I'm covered. I can't get that anywhere else I know of.

I collect the maximum social security which is comfortably more than needed for retirement visa in LOS. If I live to be 90 (My dad is 96 and well) I will collect almost 750,000 US dollars on that, compounded at 2% interest, or if they give just 2% COLAs or a combination thereof.

Those two things alone - collecting SS and savings on insurance premiums (if I could even get other insurance) are worth the effort.

If you will pay more taxes than that during the rest of your lifetime, you are actually lucky IMHO.

One thing I know for sure is that, if you have made enough social security contributions in the US, (usually 10 years or more) you are entitled to collect social security whether you are a citizen or not, and whether you are resident in the US or not. So the social security part of the advantage of retaining US citizenship is incorrect.

Medicare is very good , if you are not already a citizen of a country with a nationalised health service, and it's true you would lose out on this, so I wouldn't think there was any advantage in renouncing US citizenship, unless you are an extraordinarily rich person earning vast amounts either in salary or investments that you think you could avoid paying tax on by living abroad as a non-citizen.

Even then, if you have more than $2 million in assets, you are deemed to have renounced your citizenship to avoid tax, so you are charged an exit tax calculated on the sum you would have got if you sold all your assets on the day you renounced, (which includes retirement plans even if you are years away from claiming). This would be at maximum tax rates with over $2 million, so could be enormous.

In addition (if it is determined you have renounced for tax avoidance) you are obliged to do tax returns for 10 years after you leave, and continue to pay the IRS tax anyway!

@NanLaew - WWT is the law that make US citizens pay US income taxes from anywhere in the world.

@kurtmartens - Right now I have US Medicare Advantage which is full-blown medical insurance for about US$100 a month. I manage to maintain US residency to keep it. All I have to do is be well enough to set foot on US soil and I'm covered. I can't get that anywhere else I know of.

I collect the maximum social security which is comfortably more than needed for retirement visa in LOS. If I live to be 90 (My dad is 96 and well) I will collect almost 750,000 US dollars on that, compounded at 2% interest, or if they give just 2% COLAs or a combination thereof.

Those two things alone - collecting SS and savings on insurance premiums (if I could even get other insurance) are worth the effort.

If you will pay more taxes than that during the rest of your lifetime, you are actually lucky IMHO.

One thing I know for sure is that, if you have made enough social security contributions in the US, (usually 10 years or more) you are entitled to collect social security whether you are a citizen or not, and whether you are resident in the US or not. So the social security part of the advantage of retaining US citizenship is incorrect.

Medicare is very good , if you are not already a citizen of a country with a nationalised health service, and it's true you would lose out on this, so I wouldn't think there was any advantage in renouncing US citizenship, unless you are an extraordinarily rich person earning vast amounts either in salary or investments that you think you could avoid paying tax on by living abroad as a non-citizen.

Even then, if you have more than $2 million in assets, you are deemed to have renounced your citizenship to avoid tax, so you are charged an exit tax calculated on the sum you would have got if you sold all your assets on the day you renounced, (which includes retirement plans even if you are years away from claiming). This would be at maximum tax rates with over $2 million, so could be enormous.

In addition (if it is determined you have renounced for tax avoidance) you are obliged to do tax returns for 10 years after you leave, and continue to pay the IRS tax anyway!

In practice, it is difficult for the IRS to prove tax avoidance as the reason. Remember, they have the burden of proof in tax court and the issue is very subjective. Such claim is generally made based on personal circumstances such as maintenance of ties with the US, which requires the IRS to employ resources they simply do not have. In the case of Thailand there is a perfect escape clause: Thailand does not allow dual cititzenship so the reason to renounce US citizenship is to become compliant with Thai laws.

Unless someone was a really high earner and didn't ever want to set foot in the US again, and preferred to gain citizenship in a country which has low taxes, I can't imagine doing it. There are too many benefits to being able to land on US soil at will. It's also a great passport to have.

Would I really want to live in Singapore which is so tiny, and where I feel like a stranger, when the US is so big and varied in choices of living area, costs, and lifestyle? The US is also a cheap place to live. Even downtown NYC is much cheaper than Singapore or London or Sydney or Melbourne or Paris or Geneva or Tokyo or Oslo...

No city in the US is on the list of the ten most expensive cities in the world. Link. People forget that it isn't all about income and capital gains taxes. It's about opportunity and overall costs, too.

That said, if your friend wants to do it, he makes application and settles up with the IRS. That settlement isn't unfair, but they want to collect any taxes due before they'll release citizenship.

That is a huge decision.

Nothing wrong with a Singapore passport. Accepted in as many countries as a US Passport and can land in the US with "visa on arrival" status. And more importantly, no world wide tax to deal with. That is the biggest gripe I have and my friends all have as expats. World wide tax. Get rid of world wide tax and less people would be looking to ditch their citizenship or try to hide money IMO.

British friend of mine married and living in Singapore for many years chose a Singapore passport for his daughter when she was an infant as he saw that as the 'path of least resistance' as she grew up and went to school there. Now she has been offered a place at University in England and he is ruing the day he opted against a UK passport with the rather onerous UK student visa requirements. Having said that, I have no idea if he explored dual-citizenship (and concurrent UK passport) for her. Maybe Singapore doesn't permit that?

What is "world wide tax" btw?

Yeah that is the downfall, Singapore doesn't allow dual citizenship ... so can be hassle for some things. But, in general their passports are as accepted as UK or US ones for visa free travel. Even to the US, just "apply" online (forget what the website is called) like a UK passport holder would do ... and travel. Which is why I wouldn't mind given up my US passport .... since I could still travel to the US relatively easily.

Worldwide tax is the US tax policy that taxes US citizens income whether earned in or out of the US. So even though I work overseas for the past 10 years ... I still have to pay tax on my income over $96,000 (I think that is the latest figure). Which is a bitter pill to swallow for some expats.

And the real kicker to the WWT is that that $96001.00 dollar and above are taxed as if they are $96001.00 and up not a $1.00 and up.

This is simple. Write a letter stating that. Get it notarized. Go to the American Embassy and give them the letter and the passport. Ask for a receipt.

Ok. WRONG. 100%. Where did you get this from?????

Note that the US gives credit for taxes paid abroad (foreign tax credit). So under the foreign earned income exclusion you only pay US taxes on income above 96K (at the higher tax rates) but then get a credit for the taxes you paid abroad. So, if you are working in countries with high tax like Thailand, the US system will not necessarily affect you.

Note that the US gives credit for taxes paid abroad (foreign tax credit). So under the foreign earned income exclusion you only pay US taxes on income above 96K (at the higher tax rates) but then get a credit for the taxes you paid abroad. So, if you are working in countries with high tax like Thailand, the US system will not necessarily affect you.

Only if that country and the US have a tax treaty in place (which I assume Thailand and the US do).

And the real kicker to the WWT is that that $96001.00 dollar and above are taxed as if they are $96001.00 and up not a $1.00 and up.

the real kicker is that you wrote nonsense.

@NanLaew - WWT is the law that make US citizens pay US income taxes from anywhere in the world.

@kurtmartens - Right now I have US Medicare Advantage which is full-blown medical insurance for about US$100 a month. I manage to maintain US residency to keep it. All I have to do is be well enough to set foot on US soil and I'm covered. I can't get that anywhere else I know of.

I collect the maximum social security which is comfortably more than needed for retirement visa in LOS. If I live to be 90 (My dad is 96 and well) I will collect almost 750,000 US dollars on that, compounded at 2% interest, or if they give just 2% COLAs or a combination thereof.

Those two things alone - collecting SS and savings on insurance premiums (if I could even get other insurance) are worth the effort.

If you will pay more taxes than that during the rest of your lifetime, you are actually lucky IMHO.

One thing I know for sure is that, if you have made enough social security contributions in the US, (usually 10 years or more) you are entitled to collect social security whether you are a citizen or not, and whether you are resident in the US or not. So the social security part of the advantage of retaining US citizenship is incorrect.

Medicare is very good , if you are not already a citizen of a country with a nationalised health service, and it's true you would lose out on this, so I wouldn't think there was any advantage in renouncing US citizenship, unless you are an extraordinarily rich person earning vast amounts either in salary or investments that you think you could avoid paying tax on by living abroad as a non-citizen.

Even then, if you have more than $2 million in assets, you are deemed to have renounced your citizenship to avoid tax, so you are charged an exit tax calculated on the sum you would have got if you sold all your assets on the day you renounced, (which includes retirement plans even if you are years away from claiming). This would be at maximum tax rates with over $2 million, so could be enormous.

In addition (if it is determined you have renounced for tax avoidance) you are obliged to do tax returns for 10 years after you leave, and continue to pay the IRS tax anyway!

In practice, it is difficult for the IRS to prove tax avoidance as the reason. Remember, they have the burden of proof in tax court and the issue is very subjective. Such claim is generally made based on personal circumstances such as maintenance of ties with the US, which requires the IRS to employ resources they simply do not have. In the case of Thailand there is a perfect escape clause: Thailand does not allow dual cititzenship so the reason to renounce US citizenship is to become compliant with Thai laws.

Since when doesn't Thailand allow dual citizenship?

And the real kicker to the WWT is that that $96001.00 dollar and above are taxed as if they are $96001.00 and up not a $1.00 and up.

the real kicker is that you wrote nonsense.

Nonsense maybe, but 100% correct on the world wild tax issue for US citizens.

Note that the US gives credit for taxes paid abroad (foreign tax credit). So under the foreign earned income exclusion you only pay US taxes on income above 96K (at the higher tax rates) but then get a credit for the taxes you paid abroad. So, if you are working in countries with high tax like Thailand, the US system will not necessarily affect you.

Only if that country and the US have a tax treaty in place (which I assume Thailand and the US do).

WRONG. The foreign tax credit is local US tax policy and it applies regardless of the Treaties

@NanLaew - WWT is the law that make US citizens pay US income taxes from anywhere in the world.

@kurtmartens - Right now I have US Medicare Advantage which is full-blown medical insurance for about US$100 a month. I manage to maintain US residency to keep it. All I have to do is be well enough to set foot on US soil and I'm covered. I can't get that anywhere else I know of.

I collect the maximum social security which is comfortably more than needed for retirement visa in LOS. If I live to be 90 (My dad is 96 and well) I will collect almost 750,000 US dollars on that, compounded at 2% interest, or if they give just 2% COLAs or a combination thereof.

Those two things alone - collecting SS and savings on insurance premiums (if I could even get other insurance) are worth the effort.

If you will pay more taxes than that during the rest of your lifetime, you are actually lucky IMHO.

One thing I know for sure is that, if you have made enough social security contributions in the US, (usually 10 years or more) you are entitled to collect social security whether you are a citizen or not, and whether you are resident in the US or not. So the social security part of the advantage of retaining US citizenship is incorrect.

Medicare is very good , if you are not already a citizen of a country with a nationalised health service, and it's true you would lose out on this, so I wouldn't think there was any advantage in renouncing US citizenship, unless you are an extraordinarily rich person earning vast amounts either in salary or investments that you think you could avoid paying tax on by living abroad as a non-citizen.

Even then, if you have more than $2 million in assets, you are deemed to have renounced your citizenship to avoid tax, so you are charged an exit tax calculated on the sum you would have got if you sold all your assets on the day you renounced, (which includes retirement plans even if you are years away from claiming). This would be at maximum tax rates with over $2 million, so could be enormous.

In addition (if it is determined you have renounced for tax avoidance) you are obliged to do tax returns for 10 years after you leave, and continue to pay the IRS tax anyway!

In practice, it is difficult for the IRS to prove tax avoidance as the reason. Remember, they have the burden of proof in tax court and the issue is very subjective. Such claim is generally made based on personal circumstances such as maintenance of ties with the US, which requires the IRS to employ resources they simply do not have. In the case of Thailand there is a perfect escape clause: Thailand does not allow dual cititzenship so the reason to renounce US citizenship is to become compliant with Thai laws.

Since when doesn't Thailand allow dual citizenship?

It is not allowed in the Thai law since forever. It is a different matter whether they enforce the law or not, but it is lot allowed

Note that the US gives credit for taxes paid abroad (foreign tax credit). So under the foreign earned income exclusion you only pay US taxes on income above 96K (at the higher tax rates) but then get a credit for the taxes you paid abroad. So, if you are working in countries with high tax like Thailand, the US system will not necessarily affect you.

Only if that country and the US have a tax treaty in place (which I assume Thailand and the US do).

WRONG. The foreign tax credit is local US tax policy and it applies regardless of the Treaties

THANKS FOR THE ALL CAPS. The treaties do have an impact on what you can claim as as credit on your US tax return.

And the real kicker to the WWT is that that $96001.00 dollar and above are taxed as if they are $96001.00 and up not a $1.00 and up.

the real kicker is that you wrote nonsense.

What nonsense are you talking about. He is right. Section 911 of the IRC. Read it. The first 95K are excluded from US tax under certain conditions. Any amounts above that are taxed at the rates that apply to income on 95K and above

Note that the US gives credit for taxes paid abroad (foreign tax credit). So under the foreign earned income exclusion you only pay US taxes on income above 96K (at the higher tax rates) but then get a credit for the taxes you paid abroad. So, if you are working in countries with high tax like Thailand, the US system will not necessarily affect you.

Only if that country and the US have a tax treaty in place (which I assume Thailand and the US do).

WRONG. The foreign tax credit is local US tax policy and it applies regardless of the Treaties

THANKS FOR THE ALL CAPS. The treaties do have an impact on what you can claim as as credit on your US tax return.

WRONG. The treaties have no impact whatsoever on the foreign tax credit laws. Section 901 of the IRC. Read it.

The is no Thai law making dual citizenship illegal or legal - just as there is no such law in the USA. So you can say the glass is half empty or full but the result is the same - you will not lose birth nationality by having another.

I've read and I've read and worked on tax treaties ... so if you want to go back and forth then PM me.

THANKS FOR THE ALL CAPS. The treaties do have an impact on what you can claim as as credit on your US tax return.

Only if that country and the US have a tax treaty in place (which I assume Thailand and the US do).

Note that the US gives credit for taxes paid abroad (foreign tax credit). So under the foreign earned income exclusion you only pay US taxes on income above 96K (at the higher tax rates) but then get a credit for the taxes you paid abroad. So, if you are working in countries with high tax like Thailand, the US system will not necessarily affect you.

WRONG. The foreign tax credit is local US tax policy and it applies regardless of the Treaties

WRONG. The treaties have no impact whatsoever on the foreign tax credit laws. Section 901 of the IRC. Read it.

The is no Thai law making dual citizenship illegal or legal - just as there is no such law in the USA. So you can say the glass is half empty or full but the result is the same - you will not lose birth nationality by having another.

Many countries have laws that either do not recognize or restrict dual citizenship. The US does not have such laws. I believe Thailand does not recognize dual citizenship, which in law is a valid justification to renounce US citizenship. Countries that restrict dual citizenship have laws that cancel citizenship upon adopting another one. Singapore is such one.

Braddockrd, on 23 May 2013 - 15:02, said:

partington, on 23 May 2013 - 14:53, said:

NeverSure, on 22 May 2013 - 11:12, said:

@NanLaew - WWT is the law that make US citizens pay US income taxes from anywhere in the world.

@kurtmartens - Right now I have US Medicare Advantage which is full-blown medical insurance for about US$100 a month. I manage to maintain US residency to keep it. All I have to do is be well enough to set foot on US soil and I'm covered. I can't get that anywhere else I know of.

I collect the maximum social security which is comfortably more than needed for retirement visa in LOS. If I live to be 90 (My dad is 96 and well) I will collect almost 750,000 US dollars on that, compounded at 2% interest, or if they give just 2% COLAs or a combination thereof.

Those two things alone - collecting SS and savings on insurance premiums (if I could even get other insurance) are worth the effort.

If you will pay more taxes than that during the rest of your lifetime, you are actually lucky IMHO.

One thing I know for sure is that, if you have made enough social security contributions in the US, (usually 10 years or more) you are entitled to collect social security whether you are a citizen or not, and whether you are resident in the US or not. So the social security part of the advantage of retaining US citizenship is incorrect.

Medicare is very good , if you are not already a citizen of a country with a nationalised health service, and it's true you would lose out on this, so I wouldn't think there was any advantage in renouncing US citizenship, unless you are an extraordinarily rich person earning vast amounts either in salary or investments that you think you could avoid paying tax on by living abroad as a non-citizen.

Even then, if you have more than $2 million in assets, you are deemed to have renounced your citizenship to avoid tax, so you are charged an exit tax calculated on the sum you would have got if you sold all your assets on the day you renounced, (which includes retirement plans even if you are years away from claiming). This would be at maximum tax rates with over $2 million, so could be enormous.

In addition (if it is determined you have renounced for tax avoidance) you are obliged to do tax returns for 10 years after you leave, and continue to pay the IRS tax anyway!

In practice, it is difficult for the IRS to prove tax avoidance as the reason. Remember, they have the burden of proof in tax court and the issue is very subjective. Such claim is generally made based on personal circumstances such as maintenance of ties with the US, which requires the IRS to employ resources they simply do not have. In the case of Thailand there is a perfect escape clause: Thailand does not allow dual cititzenship so the reason to renounce US citizenship is to become compliant with Thai laws.

Yes, I think you are strictly correct that you are not legally described as 'renouncing citizenship for tax avoidance purposes' under these circumstances - instead you are called a "covered expatriate".

However the punitive tax consequences are only imposed if you fulfill these financial criteria ($2million assets, or average IRS tax payments above around $140,000 for the 5 years before renunciation), so in effect, they have enacted this law to tax rich US citizens who decide to renounce their citizenship. They are automatically applied if you fulfill the criteria- no other legal procedure necessary. If you 'only' have $ 1 million they don't apply to you.

So there is a law which selectively, punitively applies extra taxes to rich people abandoning US citizenship. This law has the effect of massively reducing tax advantages to abandoning your citizenship, so it's intention is clear. They want to minimise the tax avoidance potential for rich guys...

LIke NeverSure said I can't image someone wanting to give up their U.S. citizenship and the associated benefits unless they are trying to avoid something like taxes owed.

I think taxes owed are not the problem, I think future taxation is the issue.

Can't understand how a country can tax its citizens who live abroad without providing services in return.

On Us citizenship....can anybody answer do I automatically qualify for US citizenship if my Father is a citizen?

Assuming this to be the case can I then get my children US citizenship obviously after I get mine?

I lived in the States for 15 years but failed to apply for citizenship prior to leaving...I now have 2 boys that have never been to the states.

Is it as easy as doing some paperwork here to apply in both cases or am I barking up the wrong tree??

If you have proof that your father is a US citizen then it should not be a problem for you. Where were your born? Do you have your birth certificate?

You say you were in the states for 15 years. What was your status there? IE: residency.

For your sons it might be a bit more complicated but you would need to get yours first.

Thanks ubonjoe...My Father lives here with me and has his citizenship papers, etc.

I was born in New Zealand and have citizenship in both NZ and Oz with all papers, etc.

I lived in the States for 15 years as a permanent resident but lost that when I left the States for more than a year. (Due to a woman!!! Haha)

My sons were born here and I already have citizenship by descent for NZ and Oz for them.

On Us citizenship....can anybody answer do I automatically qualify for US citizenship if my Father is a citizen?

Assuming this to be the case can I then get my children US citizenship obviously after I get mine?

I lived in the States for 15 years but failed to apply for citizenship prior to leaving...I now have 2 boys that have never been to the states.

Is it as easy as doing some paperwork here to apply in both cases or am I barking up the wrong tree??

The US also has a physical presence test as well. So if your father is a US citizen, you would need to prove that he was a US citizen and that your father lived inside the US for at least 5 years (if memory serves me correctly)

Then once you have your citizenship, in order to give your kids US citizenship, you would also new to prove you spent 5 years living in US

On point I am not sure about, is whether you can use time spent in US before you received you US citizenship or will have to show 5 years after the period where you received your citizenship?

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Thanks CWMM...I will check that out.

On Us citizenship....can anybody answer do I automatically qualify for US citizenship if my Father is a citizen?

Assuming this to be the case can I then get my children US citizenship obviously after I get mine?

I lived in the States for 15 years but failed to apply for citizenship prior to leaving...I now have 2 boys that have never been to the states.

Is it as easy as doing some paperwork here to apply in both cases or am I barking up the wrong tree??

If you have proof that your father is a US citizen then it should not be a problem for you. Where were your born? Do you have your birth certificate?

You say you were in the states for 15 years. What was your status there? IE: residency.

For your sons it might be a bit more complicated but you would need to get yours first.

Go to American Citizen Services section of the embassy and ask to see a Consular Officer....................but I think you had to do tis when you turned 18 yo, but times change as do regulatoions.

Since when doesn't Thailand allow dual citizenship?

It is not allowed in the Thai law since forever. It is a different matter whether they enforce the law or not, but it is lot allowed

Daaa. Wrong answer, go to the back of the line.

Thailand hasn't had issues with dual citizenship since the Nationality Act was amended in 1992.

LIke NeverSure said I can't image someone wanting to give up their U.S. citizenship and the associated benefits unless they are trying to avoid something like taxes owed.

I think taxes owed are not the problem, I think future taxation is the issue.

Can't understand how a country can tax its citizens who live abroad without providing services in return.

It goes beyond future taxation. I also goes to a requirement to report assets anywhere in the world, and heavy penalties if you don't report what they think you should have reported. That means hiring accountants because the laws change so often and what you didn't have to report last year may cause you huge penalties if you don't report it this year.

And if you marry a foreigner, you may also have to report all of their assets even if they have never set foot in the USA (or maybe not, but there we go paying an attorney and/or an accountant to figure it out for you). Tax law has gotten so complex that just complying with all the laws is an expensive proposition on top of any taxes actually owed.

It also goes to the many places in the world where Americans can't (legally) do business because of puritanical anti-corruption laws.

It also goes to the fact that Americans can't open bank accounts in many countries because the local banks won't put up with IRS reporting requirements, and many banks around the world are closing Americans' accounts for the same reason.

And I might add that not all of us are really pleased that trillions of tax dollars are being squandered in killing hundreds of thousands of innocents as "collateral damage".

LIke NeverSure said I can't image someone wanting to give up their U.S. citizenship and the associated benefits unless they are trying to avoid something like taxes owed.

I think taxes owed are not the problem, I think future taxation is the issue.

Can't understand how a country can tax its citizens who live abroad without providing services in return.

Well they do provide services in return. Just whether those services are worth 39% of my annual salary are another discussion.

LIke NeverSure said I can't image someone wanting to give up their U.S. citizenship and the associated benefits unless they are trying to avoid something like taxes owed.

I think taxes owed are not the problem, I think future taxation is the issue.

Can't understand how a country can tax its citizens who live abroad without providing services in return.

It goes beyond future taxation. I also goes to a requirement to report assets anywhere in the world, and heavy penalties if you don't report what they think you should have reported. That means hiring accountants because the laws change so often and what you didn't have to report last year may cause you huge penalties if you don't report it this year.

And if you marry a foreigner, you may also have to report all of their assets even if they have never set foot in the USA (or maybe not, but there we go paying an attorney and/or an accountant to figure it out for you). Tax law has gotten so complex that just complying with all the laws is an expensive proposition on top of any taxes actually owed.

It also goes to the many places in the world where Americans can't (legally) do business because of puritanical anti-corruption laws.

It also goes to the fact that Americans can't open bank accounts in many countries because the local banks won't put up with IRS reporting requirements, and many banks around the world are closing Americans' accounts for the same reason.

And I might add that not all of us are really pleased that trillions of tax dollars are being squandered in killing hundreds of thousands of innocents as "collateral damage".

Yes, those are very good reasons! these methods are absolutely apalling

Why cancel US citizenship? What is the advantage?

LIke NeverSure said I can't image someone wanting to give up their U.S. citizenship and the associated benefits unless they are trying to avoid something like taxes owed.

I think taxes owed are not the problem, I think future taxation is the issue.

Can't understand how a country can tax its citizens who live abroad without providing services in return.

Well they do provide services in return. Just whether those services are worth 39% of my annual salary are another discussion.

Services the U.S. government provides it's citizens who live abroad...

Here's an example: Recently, I went to the U.S. Consulate to have 3 forms notarized. It took about 2 minutes of the guy's time.

Cost: 1,500 baht (or $50) each. Total for 3 signatures = 4,500 baht (or $150).

Years ago, I used to pay $1.50 to $2.50 for a notary in the U.S. Today, at $10 it might be called a service. At $50 a pop, it might

be very aptly be called something else...