Woolwich Attack: ' Soldier Beheaded' By Ranting Fanatics On Busy London Street

[Jingthing]

I think the enemies of extremist violent Islamists need to be careful to NOT attack the entire religion of Islam and to not obsess about their religious texts. Doing that is falling into the radicals trap. The more that is done the more chance they have to radicalize more people, to spread the lie that all non-Muslims hate all Muslims and that "good" Muslims should just kill non-believers. Focus on their evil actions and policies instead. They are not inevitable based on their texts. Religious texts can be interpreted and religious cultures can evolve over time in many different ways. Avoiding demonizing the entire religion wholesale is not going to solve this international Jihadist problem, but at least it has a better chance of not making it much worse.

Edited May 24, 2013 by Jingthing

[pacharaphet]

Neither do the majority of Muslims!

As for Christians blowing up kids; remember Warrington, for example.

You quote one example of a few, YET many lives world wide are lost via a peaceful religion every day. I feel sorry for you and your perspective on stuff.

Yes, you as a foreigner living in Thailand (or at least being quite involved with Thailand) should have NO PITY and NO UNDERSTANDING for someone who tries to make cultural relativism and suspended judgment part of one's common practice....what a madman, attempting to look at things through more than one lens.... as if the West has just always left people alone in the rest of the world... ha ha ha

[jayboy]

Anyone like me depressed and bored by the bar talk comments on this thread? Feel like a dose of intelligence and sanity ? Then read Simon Jenkins's views:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/may/23/woolwich-attack-echo-chamber-mass-hysteria

[uptheos]

Go to Dakka on the feast of Eid and you will see how much 'they' love blood and slaughter, your shoes will be covered with it as blood soaks them as if it has rained. Absolutely sickening, as the sound of horrific screams of slaughter is mingled with ecstatic laughter. It's a scene that will always haunt me.

[transam]

I think the enemies of extremist violent Islamists need to be careful to NOT attack the entire religion of Islam and to not obsess about their religious texts. Doing that is falling into the radicals trap. The more that is done the more chance they have to radicalize more people, to spread the lie that all non-Muslims hate all Muslims. Focus on the evil actions and policies instead. They are not inevitable based on their texts. Religious texts can be interpreted and religious cultures can evolve over time in many different ways. That's not going to solve this international problem, but at least it has a better chance of not making it much worse.

Unfortunately non Muslims are shown via the media every day the killing of the innocent all over the world by one particular religion, whether radical nutters or not the headlines are the same for the reader. I think many including me are fed up with it.

We read about ''that'' religions teachers radicalizing kids to become killers, even killing their own with indiscriminate bombing.

I think the bubble will burst at some time.

[chooka]

One of the suspects was a follower of the hate-preaching cleric named Anjem Choudary. This chap has been accused of inspiring other outbreaks of terror in Britain. It is well and nice for some in the Muslim community to tut tut and to offer their empty platitudes, but no one has taken a stand against the preachings of Imams like Choudary. There is not one statement from all of these muslim community representatives about the community's responsibility to speak out against the likes of Choudary.

Here is the Imam justifying the murder and refusing to condemn it. (see 2.40) Sadly, many of his views have been parroted by some people on this thread.

It is an incredibly sad event that a man, who volunteered to serve his country, was savagely murdered on the street by fellow countrymen who have benefited from the deceased's service. I find it vulgar and offensive that anyone would seek to offer excuses for such a profane and violent act. Anyone with a sense of decency will see the actions for what they were. A ruthless, barbaric act of terror.

Go to youtube, enter Pat Condell and check his comments, particularly on grubs like Choudary.

Whilst this murder is tragic, we also have to blame the British Government and the BBC. Why any network would give scum like Choudary air time is beyond me. Police providing security for muslim protesters to take to the street and denounce our country. Banning the flying of the St. George flag/Union Jack for fear of upsetting muslims is a joke!!!

Obviously letting these scumbags into the country, giving them free houses and benefits is not the way forward.

I suggest that any immigrant that is allowed entry to Britain should serve 2 years National service in the army!! If they refuse don't let them in!!

England will eventually fall to Islam and Sharia law, there is no tuning back the clock.

Edited May 24, 2013 by Scott

[SinglePot]

I think the enemies of extremist violent Islamists need to be careful to NOT attack the entire religion of Islam and to not obsess about their religious texts. Doing that is falling into the radicals trap. The more that is done the more chance they have to radicalize more people, to spread the lie that all non-Muslims hate all Muslims and that "good" Muslims should just kill non-believers. Focus on their evil actions and policies instead. They are not inevitable based on their texts. Religious texts can be interpreted and religious cultures can evolve over time in many different ways. Avoiding demonizing the entire religion wholesale is not going to solve this international Jihadist problem, but at least it has a better chance of not making it much worse.

If the religious texts are a little bit radical, being a little bit liberal isn't going to improve anything.

[Jingthing]

I think the enemies of extremist violent Islamists need to be careful to NOT attack the entire religion of Islam and to not obsess about their religious texts. Doing that is falling into the radicals trap. The more that is done the more chance they have to radicalize more people, to spread the lie that all non-Muslims hate all Muslims. Focus on the evil actions and policies instead. They are not inevitable based on their texts. Religious texts can be interpreted and religious cultures can evolve over time in many different ways. That's not going to solve this international problem, but at least it has a better chance of not making it much worse.

Unfortunately non Muslims are shown via the media every day the killing of the innocent all over the world by one particular religion, whether radical nutters or not the headlines are the same for the reader. I think many including me are fed up with it.

We read about ''that'' religions teachers radicalizing kids to become killers, even killing their own with indiscriminate bombing.

I think the bubble will burst at some time.

The anger is understandable but looking at the numbers, if people are going to be pushing for a total war against Islamic peoples, I like the Islamic people's odds. So its better to avoid going overboard if that is possible. Obama is using the generally great record of American Muslims who are overwhelmingly not Jihadists as a propaganda tool to show that America is not the enemy of all Islam. Which it isn't but many Muslims think it is. I think those kinds of approaches are worth pursuing.

Edited May 24, 2013 by Jingthing

[transam]

Neither do the majority of Muslims!

As for Christians blowing up kids; remember Warrington, for example.

You quote one example of a few, YET many lives world wide are lost via a peaceful religion every day. I feel sorry for you and your perspective on stuff.

Yes, you as a foreigner living in Thailand (or at least being quite involved with Thailand) should have NO PITY and NO UNDERSTANDING for someone who tries to make cultural relativism and suspended judgment part of one's common practice....what a madman, attempting to look at things through more than one lens.... as if the West has just always left people alone in the rest of the world... ha ha ha

Eh.

[SinglePot]

One of the suspects was a follower of the hate-preaching cleric named Anjem Choudary. This chap has been accused of inspiring other outbreaks of terror in Britain. It is well and nice for some in the Muslim community to tut tut and to offer their empty platitudes, but no one has taken a stand against the preachings of Imams like Choudary. There is not one statement from all of these muslim community representatives about the community's responsibility to speak out against the likes of Choudary.

Here is the Imam justifying the murder and refusing to condemn it. (see 2.40) Sadly, many of his views have been parroted by some people on this thread.

It is an incredibly sad event that a man, who volunteered to serve his country, was savagely murdered on the street by fellow countrymen who have benefited from the deceased's service. I find it vulgar and offensive that anyone would seek to offer excuses for such a profane and violent act. Anyone with a sense of decency will see the actions for what they were. A ruthless, barbaric act of terror.

Go to youtube, enter Pat Condell and check his comments, particularly on grubs like Choudary.

Whilst this murder is tragic, we also have to blame the British Government and the BBC. Why any network would give scum like Choudary air time is beyond me. Police providing security for muslim protesters to take to the street and denounce our country. Banning the flying of the St. George flag/Union Jack for fear of upsetting muslims is a joke!!!

Obviously letting these scumbags into the country, giving them free houses and benefits is not the way forward.

I suggest that any immigrant that is allowed entry to Britain should serve 2 years National service in the army!! If they refuse don't let them in!!

England will eventually fall to Islam and Sharia law, there is no tuning back the clock.

I' m assuming this is a sick joke, not a threat?

Just checking.

Edited May 24, 2013 by Scott

[jackr]

A barbaric attack by extremists who no more represent the majority of Muslims than Christian fundamentalists represent the majority of Christians or Zionists represent the majority of Jews.

They are no more Muslim than the IRA were Catholic.

But, it seems that not only have the morons of the EDL fallen into their trap, but several members here have as well!

What trap?

These savages want to stir up feelings against Muslims to such an extent that morons like the EDL attack more and more mosques and then start to attack any and all Muslims. This means that all Muslims in the west start to feel threatened and the extremists convince them to join them and be protected. Protected from hatred which the extremists, with the unwitting help of morons like the EDL, caused.

The vast majority of Muslims are the same as the vast majority of Christians, Jews, Hindus etc. They just want to live in peace with their neighbours, of any or no religion, and get on with their lives.

Don't fall into the extremists trap; don't do their work for them!

So lets all sit on our hands, eh! Sorry, but it's liberal, overly PC, wishy-washy twaddle like this that sees the UK (specifically England) continue to languish... its people wary of showing any pride for fear of upsetting its 'guests'. The only way forwards is to stamp it out or it'll continue to spiral. The world is overpopulated and headed for meltdown, so lets make a stand and by the end, with a bit of luck, this vile religion (along with the others) will be eradicated and the sumbags that did this will have nothing to root for. So whose who? I'm with the EDL.

[Jingthing]

I don't think western countries should sit on their hands. Tolerance and religious freedom yes but there are limits. These limits can be imposed by LAWS. For example if some African immigrants tradition is to slaughter a goat on the public square, in the west ... NO, sorry.

[transam]

UK Muslims are in (or was) a Christian country and should do something to teach peace and harmony to their believers if they want to live in a strange land that is probably very different to their own. If we were to do stuff they get away with here in their country there would be a few of us hanging from gibbets. Of course they know the UK is a soft touch, thats why many are here.

[VegasVic]

A barbaric attack by extremists who no more represent the majority of Muslims than Christian fundamentalists represent the majority of Christians or Zionists represent the majority of Jews.

They are no more Muslim than the IRA were Catholic.

But, it seems that not only have the morons of the EDL fallen into their trap, but several members here have as well!

What trap?

These savages want to stir up feelings against Muslims to such an extent that morons like the EDL attack more and more mosques and then start to attack any and all Muslims. This means that all Muslims in the west start to feel threatened and the extremists convince them to join them and be protected. Protected from hatred which the extremists, with the unwitting help of morons like the EDL, caused.

The vast majority of Muslims are the same as the vast majority of Christians, Jews, Hindus etc. They just want to live in peace with their neighbours, of any or no religion, and get on with their lives.

Don't fall into the extremists trap; don't do their work for them!

7by7, I believe your supposition that the vast majority of people on this planet do just want to live in peace is correct, however you are way off base in your statement that compares these gutless radical muslims that try and hide behind the skirt of Islam to the IRA and the Catholic Church! I do not recall any IRA member ever invoking the Catholic Church as a reason for any of the extreme measures that they took, in fact quite the opposite, most of them went out of their way to distance themselves from the Church. The IRA came about as a result of the generations upon generations of oppression by the British. The Brits were the ones prejudice against the Irish Catholics, the IRA was just an offshoot of an oppressed people not willing to stand and take it any longer, it had nothing whatsoever to do with the Catholic Church. Next time give a little more thought with you comparisons Erin go bragh!

[uptheos]

UK Muslims are in (or was) a Christian country and should do something to teach peace and harmony to their believers if they want to live in a strange land that is probably very different to their own. If we were to do stuff they get away with here in their country there would be a few of us hanging from gibbets. Of course they know the UK is a soft touch, thats why many are here.

Every nation has a breaking point and it's often not the government that responds.

[Jingthing]

Some countries like the UK might have a real serious problem not easily solved because of the HIGH population of Muslim people. A government could pass strong laws to teach peace and western cultural values, and regulate against the more odious religious/cultural practices (such as horrible oppression of Muslim women) that break laws, but in a democracy if politicians need to get the support of Muslim people to keep their jobs, those policies are not likely to be very strong or effective.

Edited May 24, 2013 by Jingthing

[Fantastic5]

I live in Malaysia, a very nice place and the people are absolutely lovely. I do prefer the company of the Malay muslims to the Indian and Chinese here.

Just a question. Has it become the norm for every assault to now be labelled a terrorist attack? Just seems to me that any assault or murder to do with race or religion these days is a terrorist attack instead of just saying some mentally retarded morons murdered and innocent person.

The language of using the word 'terrorist' in this instance seems to be begging for reprisals and inflammation. That's just my 2 satang worth anyway.

PS: No I don't think they should be shot, hanged, executed etc. I would prefer they were tied to a pole in Hyde Park and let the locals throw rocks at them for a few days then set them on fire.

Just a thought. You live in Malaysia, a predominantly Muslim country. There they have there own laws, rules and regulations. Hence a Muslim country with Muslim laws. Nothing wrong with that. I think what pisses people off is that Muslims are infiltrating other peoples countries, challenging their beliefs and way of life. In other words, if you are happy with the Muslim way, stay in a muslim country. Don't come to other peoples country and try to enact muslim laws. That way of course you will incite racism.

I also like your idea of punishment for those guys........ Stoning!!!! well done!!!!!!!!!

I agree, Muslim country Muslim laws, English country, English laws. I also don't think mslim women should be able to where a face niqab, or Hindu men not where in helmets when riding a motorcycle because they have to where there head cover and I think western women should cover there hair when they go to islamic countries.

O. The knote of Muslims disturbing other cultured, I don't think it's right, just like I don't think it's right that Christians disturb other cultures. The reason why most of the problem (and I am not exusing any of it) is because they don't want western governments interfering with there countries politics and they are only there because Islamic countries have oil, one day it will run out and all the problem will stop. Every one should respect the cultures as they are and let the people and governments be.

Great idea, so it follows that muslim men should shave and wear 3 piece suits in UK and all muslim women should wear mini-skirts and silk blouses with no bra underneath.

Get your head out of 1650 AD

Are you drunk or do usually completely distort what others say?

It's british custom to look at some one when they are speaking to you it's very rude to cover your face when ingaging with others, hens take of the niqab. Hindus don't what to where a helmet (its the law for others) don't ride a motorcycle, if its to much to cover your hair, don't wast your time going to Islamic counties.

It's not a fundamental part of western culture to where a mini skirt, it's a new trend. It's not even esentule In Islam for a women to cover face, actuly that is also quite a new thing (I'm Muslim incase you haven't heard). It's disrespectful to go to someone's home in Thailand and where you shoes, so take them of or don't go in.

If you can't respect others homes stay away from them, if that's old fashioned, then the future is shorly doomed.

[jaffacakes1]

Anyone like me depressed and bored by the bar talk comments on this thread? Feel like a dose of intelligence and sanity ? Then read Simon Jenkins's views:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/may/23/woolwich-attack-echo-chamber-mass-hysteria

On the contrary, I find the variety of views, opinions and information shared from most of the contributors on this topic thus far considerably more interesting than reading one sensitive journalists writing.

I am also greatly encouraged to find such a matter of fact, open and honest conversation which could only be ever had in hushed tones in the UK.

[Radar501]

One of the suspects was a follower of the hate-preaching cleric named Anjem Choudary. This chap has been accused of inspiring other outbreaks of terror in Britain. It is well and nice for some in the Muslim community to tut tut and to offer their empty platitudes, but no one has taken a stand against the preachings of Imams like Choudary. There is not one statement from all of these muslim community representatives about the community's responsibility to speak out against the likes of Choudary.

Here is the Imam justifying the murder and refusing to condemn it. (see 2.40) Sadly, many of his views have been parroted by some people on this thread.

It is an incredibly sad event that a man, who volunteered to serve his country, was savagely murdered on the street by fellow countrymen who have benefited from the deceased's service. I find it vulgar and offensive that anyone would seek to offer excuses for such a profane and violent act. Anyone with a sense of decency will see the actions for what they were. A ruthless, barbaric act of terror.

Go to youtube, enter Pat Condell and check his comments, particularly on grubs like Choudary.

Whilst this murder is tragic, we also have to blame the British Government and the BBC. Why any network would give scum like Choudary air time is beyond me. Police providing security for muslim protesters to take to the street and denounce our country. Banning the flying of the St. George flag/Union Jack for fear of upsetting muslims is a joke!!!

Obviously letting these scumbags into the country, giving them free houses and benefits is not the way forward.

I suggest that any immigrant that is allowed entry to Britain should serve 2 years National service in the army!! If they refuse don't let them in!!

You suggest that any immigrant that is allowed entry to Britain should serve 2 years National Service in the army??

So, instead of scrounging for a handgun and meat cleaver to kill a lone soldier, they could have access to a huge military arsenal to murder 100!!

Edited May 24, 2013 by Scott

[overherebc]

Fantastic5

Why is that when I was working in Muslim countries I had to respect religious beliefs and local customs by law, it was not voluntary.

Some people I worked with were devout christians but they were not allowed to carry or read a bible, punishable by law to do so.

It aalways seems to be, come to my country, obey my religious laws or you will be punished, but, if someone of the faith comes to UK then people in UK must obey their religious beliefs or they will be punished..

[SinglePot]

I don't think western countries should sit on their hands. Tolerance and religious freedom yes but there are limits. These limits can be imposed by LAWS. For example if some African immigrants tradition is to slaughter a goat on the public square, in the west ... NO, sorry.

How about a dose of reality JT?

No British Court of Law can deal with a community who basically think everybody should think like them.

British legal system can only sit on its hands until, for example, an army cadet in Woolwich gets slaughtered.

You will not be able to convince all the posters or readers on this thread that your liberal approach to an underlying menace is the answer JT.

If a community wants to distance itself from zealots and fundamentalists who do things like 9/11 they need to stand up and be counted. Preferably by action, not just words. A silent majority who support evil are as guilty as the perpetrators.

British politicians need to do some counting.

The only problem....Liberals would claim it is an infringement of personal liberty.

Travel to the US as a foreigner and you have to fill in a form that asks you to confirm or decline that you are a terrorist. Laughable. But you get the drift.

Any kid seen laughing at TV footage of 9/11 needs watching.

Liberal enough for you JT.

[Jingthing]

I am not as liberal as you seem to think regarding radical Islamists. I just think going overboard towards fascistic hyper-nationalistic white supremacist racist movements is certainly not the answer either! Sure, crack down on this evil, but with a good degree of rationality.

Edited May 24, 2013 by Jingthing

[Paangjang]

Not totally related but interesting:

• 4% of UK homes do not have an English speaker in them.
• 10% of UK residents were not born in the UK.
• In some districts upto 40% of the population do not have a basic understanding of the English language.
• 1 in 5 UK students do not consider English as their first language.

Search Google for more on these facts.

[SinglePot]

Steady JT!

[uptheos]

I am not as liberal as you seem to think regarding radical Islamists. I just think going overboard towards fascistic hyper-nationalistic white supremacist racist movements is certainly not the answer either! Sure, crack down on this evil, but with a good degree of rationality.

The problem is JT and this is not scare mongering. Muslims in UK are breeding at rates 3-5 times higher than anyone else and are encouraged by their leaders to do so. They are openly preaching that they will insidiously seize the country 'from within' and they have patience, believe me. In the meantime just create a few atrocities for good fun to please Allah. Right now the situation might be containable, barely, but you need to think 15-20-25 years forward and how Britain will be absolutely swamped and the entire system broken. Just do the math JT, it's scary!

Ant then there will be "rivers of blood" as forecast by Enoch Powell.

Edited May 24, 2013 by uptheos

[Mosha]

I am not as liberal as you seem to think regarding radical Islamists. I just think going overboard towards fascistic hyper-nationalistic white supremacist racist movements is certainly not the answer either! Sure, crack down on this evil, but with a good degree of rationality.

The problem is JT and this is not scare mongering. Muslims in UK are breeding at rates 3-5 times higher than anyone else and are encouraged by their leaders to do so. They are openly preaching that they will insidiously seize the country 'from within' and they have patience, believe me. In the meantime just create a few atrocities for good fun to please Allah. Right now the situation might be containable, barely, but you need to think 15-20-25 years forward and how Britain will be absolutely swamped and the entire system broken. Just do the math JT, it's scary!

Ant then there will be "rivers of blood" as forecast by Enoch Powell.

Actually your figures are a bit low. Between 2001-8 they outbred everyone else by about 10%

[uptheos]

I am not as liberal as you seem to think regarding radical Islamists. I just think going overboard towards fascistic hyper-nationalistic white supremacist racist movements is certainly not the answer either! Sure, crack down on this evil, but with a good degree of rationality.

The problem is JT and this is not scare mongering. Muslims in UK are breeding at rates 3-5 times higher than anyone else and are encouraged by their leaders to do so. They are openly preaching that they will insidiously seize the country 'from within' and they have patience, believe me. In the meantime just create a few atrocities for good fun to please Allah. Right now the situation might be containable, barely, but you need to think 15-20-25 years forward and how Britain will be absolutely swamped and the entire system broken. Just do the math JT, it's scary!

Ant then there will be "rivers of blood" as forecast by Enoch Powell.

Actually your figures are a bit low. Between 2001-8 they outbred everyone else by about 10%

Well, I wanted to be fair.

[Bagwan]

Hang them Both

To satisfy the ethnic sensibilities of these animals I suggest stoning would be more appropriate. However since capital punishment has been discontinued in the UK maybe being incarcerated in a pig pen would foot the bill.

[Ace of Pop]

So Mosha wanted to be Fair. !!. England has been Fair,this is how the Aliens,to use a Thai term repays them .I recall the Thais all got kicked out of a Muslim Country,over some stolen Jewels. The Brits should do the same to all Islamic Nutters before they start killing Children next. My Country doesnt have this problem, there are no handouts.

[Mosha]

So Mosha wanted to be Fair. !!. England has been Fair,this is how the Aliens,to use a Thai term repays them .I recall the Thais all got kicked out of a Muslim Country,over some stolen Jewels. The Brits should do the same to all Islamic Nutters before they start killing Children next. My Country doesnt have this problem, there are no handouts.

I never said I wanted to be fair. That was uptheos