Nsa Contractor Identifies Himself As Source

[Publicus]

"Europe’s spying businesses thrive amid surveillance uproars."

"At a time when European countries are loudly condemning the US and UK’s spying activities, Europe’s spy technology expertise is a potential source of embarrassment."

And what the f*** do you think the Chinese are doing?

Sitting around smoking opium and playing mahjong?

No, I think they are now trying to tell the US govt that all their bitching about the Chinese spying is pointless because the US are doing the same thing but have been caught out and should get off their democracy soap box as it isn't worth a pinch of sh*t.

All this crap about US security but for some reason China is afforded the same privilege. Are the Chinese not allowed to be patriots or is patriotism the sole domain of the US govt?

The CCP-PRC is a censoring and punishing fascist dictatorship with 21st century Chinese characteristics. You can't possibly think or believe the CCP-PRC and the USA are moral equivalents, that Beijing is worthy or deserving of equal treatment to the democracies of the world. You can't possibly believe such an absurdity and stark contradiction.

Beijing is the only government of the world to currently have in prison a Nobel Peace Laureate, Dr. Liu Xiaobo (2010) because he advocates a gradual, peaceful evolution of the CCP-PRC to democracy.

Next you'll be defending Nazi spies in the US during World War II on the basis that we spied on the Nazis too.

[SinglePot]

"Europe’s spying businesses thrive amid surveillance uproars."

"At a time when European countries are loudly condemning the US and UK’s spying activities, Europe’s spy technology expertise is a potential source of embarrassment."

And what the f*** do you think the Chinese are doing?

Sitting around smoking opium and playing mahjong?

No, I think they are now trying to tell the US govt that all their bitching about the Chinese spying is pointless because the US are doing the same thing but have been caught out and should get off their democracy soap box as it isn't worth a pinch of sh*t.

All this crap about US security but for some reason China is afforded the same privilege. Are the Chinese not allowed to be patriots or is patriotism the sole domain of the US govt?

Chinese are allowed nothing.

See post above.

Why? Is it because they have slanty eyes.

Nope. For the reasons that Publicus is articulating.

PS. my wife is oriental.

555

[Publicus]

"Europe’s spying businesses thrive amid surveillance uproars."

"At a time when European countries are loudly condemning the US and UK’s spying activities, Europe’s spy technology expertise is a potential source of embarrassment."

And what the f*** do you think the Chinese are doing?

Sitting around smoking opium and playing mahjong?

No, I think they are now trying to tell the US govt that all their bitching about the Chinese spying is pointless because the US are doing the same thing but have been caught out and should get off their democracy soap box as it isn't worth a pinch of sh*t.

All this crap about US security but for some reason China is afforded the same privilege. Are the Chinese not allowed to be patriots or is patriotism the sole domain of the US govt?

Chinese are allowed nothing.

See post above.

Why? Is it because they have slanty eyes.

Now don't you feel cheap for such a remark.

That remark was base. You need to retract it or to apologize to all posters for trying to insult our intelligence and for crass and tasteless racist innuendo.

Edited July 8, 2013 by Publicus

[FDog]

"Europe’s spying businesses thrive amid surveillance uproars."

"At a time when European countries are loudly condemning the US and UK’s spying activities, Europe’s spy technology expertise is a potential source of embarrassment."

And what the f*** do you think the Chinese are doing?

Sitting around smoking opium and playing mahjong?

No, I think they are now trying to tell the US govt that all their bitching about the Chinese spying is pointless because the US are doing the same thing but have been caught out and should get off their democracy soap box as it isn't worth a pinch of sh*t.

All this crap about US security but for some reason China is afforded the same privilege. Are the Chinese not allowed to be patriots or is patriotism the sole domain of the US govt?

The CCP-PRC is a censoring and punishing fascist dictatorship with 21st century Chinese characteristics. You can't possibly think or believe the CCP-PRC and the USA are moral equivalents, that Beijing is worthy or deserving of equal treatment to the democracies of the world. You can't possibly believe such an absurdity and stark contradiction.

Beijing is the only government of the world to currently have in prison a Nobel Peace Laureate, Dr. Liu Xiaobo (2010) because he advocates a gradual, peaceful evolution of the CCP-PRC to democracy.

Next you'll be defending Nazi spies in the US during World War II on the basis that we spied on the Nazis too.

Please tell me why the Nazi's shouldn't have been allowed to spy?

The US doesn't own patriotism. Just because you think the US is right doesn't mean everyone else has to. The Nazi's had every right to spy whether you agree with what they were doing is not the issue.

Edited July 8, 2013 by FDog

[Publicus]

FDog, you have put yourself into a serious hole, so the first thing you need to do is to stop digging lest your dig your own grave here at TVF.

I lived In China several years so I have a good number of Chinese friends who are near and dear to me, precious human beings.

Your racist remark is inconsistent with the statements I made in my posts against the CCP-PRC. You ignore my rational reasons for my opposition to the CCP-PRC to instead try to assign to me base, crass, racist motives, thoughts, attitudes.

You owe an apology to me and to the other poster and to all posters at TVF.

And to all the Chinese in China.

Edited July 8, 2013 by Publicus

[Maestro]

Publicus and FDog, please stop this bickering immediately. One more cross word from either of you will result in a temporary suspension of posting privileges. Have different opinions on a subject, by all means, but instead of personal attacks, state your own opinions objectively and make the readers understand how you arrived at it. If one member makes the blanket statement that the citizens of one country have no rights, other members' questions as to what this opinion is based on is a valid question.

[mania]

So what does that have to do with what the NSA is doing?

If it is just normal, every country does it, no problem. Then why are the US after Snowden if it is no big deal?

You do have to laugh as some cheer on the race to the bottom of the morals & loss of liberties barrel using

"They all do it" as their justification.

The difference is the USA once stood against such practices & preached to others to do the same.

Today it looks like they have thrown in the towel & hide behind the war on terror as reason to not

practice what they have always preached.

Hopefully there are enough real Americans left in the USA to reinstate our Constitution & help

the US back to its former self.

[Scott]

Off-topic remarks directed at the poster have been deleted. Continue at your own peril.

[Scott]

Publicus and FDog, please stop this bickering immediately. One more cross word from either of you will result in a temporary suspension of posting privileges. Have different opinions on a subject, by all means, but instead of personal attacks, state your own opinions objectively and make the readers understand how you arrived at it. If one member makes the blanket statement that the citizens of one country have no rights, other members' questions as to what this opinion is based on is a valid question.

This reminder extends to a few other posters as well.

[antfish]

"So what does that have to do with what the NSA is doing?

If it is just normal, every country does it, no problem. Then why are the US after Snowden if it is no big deal?"

Because the US is too soft. China assassinates people like Snowden.

Nobody in China is walking out of high security buildings with memory sticks.

China laughs at western democracy ha ha ha.

source?

[SinglePot]

for what it's worth I lived and worked in China for a year up until very recently.

Knowledge and concerns based on the nature of the leadership of the country.

just like many people have concerns about us government.

Nothing to do with racism I can assure you.

hope this post is not seen as being antagonistic to anybody.

[antfish]

If one member makes the blanket statement that the citizens of one country have no rights, other members' questions as to what this opinion is based on is a valid question.

That is good to hear. i read such and similar statements so often here by certain BM. good that i am allowed to ask questions.

[SinglePot]

If one member makes the blanket statement that the citizens of one country have no rights, other members' questions as to what this opinion is based on is a valid question.

That is good to hear. i read such and similar statements so often here by certain BM. good that i am allowed to ask questions.

totally agree. We are free to voice our opinions here on TVF,FB,Twitter etc etc.

China Weibo heavily censored. FB and Twitter not accessible in China unless you have VPN or alternative methods.

[Scott]

If one member makes the blanket statement that the citizens of one country have no rights, other members' questions as to what this opinion is based on is a valid question.

That is good to hear. i read such and similar statements so often here by certain BM. good that i am allowed to ask questions.

You are allowed to ask questions that are on the topic of the thread.

Trolling is not allowed. Here's where the rules can be found:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?app=forums&module=extras&section=boardrules

An off-topic question or answer will get your post deleted.

[antfish]

Pentagon Papers leaker: Snowden was right to run

Snowden made the right call when he fled the U.S.

By Daniel Ellsberg,

Daniel Ellsberg is the author of “Secrets: A Memoir of Vietnam and the Pentagon Papers.” He was charged in 1971 under the Espionage Act as well as for theft and conspiracy for copying the Pentagon Papers. The trial was dismissed in 1973 after evidence of government misconduct, including illegal wiretapping, was introduced in court.

Many people compare Edward Snowden to me unfavorably for leaving the country and seeking asylum, rather than facing trial as I did. I don’t agree. The country I stayed in was a different America, a long time ago.

...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/daniel-ellsberg-nsa-leaker-snowden-made-the-right-call/2013/07/07/0b46d96c-e5b7-11e2-aef3-339619eab080_story.html

[SinglePot]

So was the world.

Different ball park now for the US government.

[Sing_Sling]

Sane defining act, though, as Ellsberg says

[SinglePot]

better change the act then because other countries don't care about the US doing the right thing.

[Sing_Sling]

What does that even mean?

[jamhar]

Snowden in Moscow: What Russian Authorities Might Be Doing with the NSA Whistleblower

"The accepted wisdom, unofficially acknowledged by most western and Russian sources, is that Snowden was taken soon after his arrival – if not immediately – to a secure location run by some arm of the Russian government.

The reason has to do with Snowden’s laptops, which are reportedly full of the secret data he stole from his former employers at American intelligence agencies. Those hard drives would make him a high-value target for Russian spies. “Without a doubt, a person with inside knowledge like that, live and in the flesh, would be a very useful catch,” says Mikhail Lyubimov, a 20-year veteran of the KGB who headed the agencies spying activities against the U.K. and Scandinavia in the 1970s. “He is carrying information of great importance.”

As an experienced hacker and computer expert, Snowden could, however, be expected to protect all his data through encryption. Nikita Kislitsyn, the editor of Russia’s Hacker Magazine, says encryption systems are available that would likely stump the experts working for the Russian government. “We don’t know the exact capabilities of our special services,” he says. “But there are programs on the market today that encryption experts believe to be very solid. Their algorithms would take years to crack even with the kinds of supercomputers available to the state.”

In order to access Snowden’s data, Russian security services would therefore need him to provide the encryption keys, which he does not seem likely to give up voluntarily. His supporters have cast him as an altruistic whistleblower; handing over secrets to the Russian government would seem to undermine the values of transparency that he extols."

Link to What and Why for Snowden - Russian Sitution

Edited July 11, 2013 by jamhar

[mania]

In order to access Snowden’s data, Russian security services would therefore need him to provide the encryption keys, which he does not seem likely to give up voluntarily. His supporters have cast him as an altruistic whistleblower; handing over secrets to the Russian government would seem to undermine the values of transparency that he extols."

I think it may be even more boring than that.

I think what Snowden has is mainly injustices towards the American Citizens

& of little interest to others who always knew it was ongoing. Yes he may also have proof

that the US spies on all embassies friends & foes alike. But again that may not be news to the other countries.

Snowden has kept his word & not made this about himself. He did not want it to be a sideshow

so he has not done a bunch of interviews or really give his opinion on the US except for his initial reason to

release such info.

Instead he wanted to release the info & let the citizens decide what next.

But it seems without a sideshow it is very hard to hold a US citizens interest these days.

If the US media has nothing sensational to put on the tube it basically gets very little interest.

So it will be interesting to see/hear what else will be released if anything at all.

Edited July 11, 2013 by mania

[Credo]

Once he started talking to foreign governments, regardless of how little or how much information he gave them, he became a spy.

As for not making this about himself, I am sorry, but I doubt that he has a choice. You can bet your sweet behind that the Russians have securely stashed somewhere where no one other than themselves have access to him.

As I said before, he should not be playing with the big boys. It's a whole different ball game.

[jamhar]

Mania, Credo

I agree with you both more than I disagree.

With all the information he probably has, He has been reserved about releasing the information. It could be that hes smart and realizes that if he released all or the most sensitive information, he has no leverage. So it could be self preservation more than him not trying to make this about himself. Regardless, of the motives, he has shown restraint.

But from my perspective, He is an RBT (Rat Bastard Traitor). All the data he took, has to be considered compromised. And steps needs to be taken to address the compromised data. Depending on the data, it could cost millions, and years to address. And in the interim, the systems could be vulnerable. His only saving grace is that apparently up to now, he didnt do it for money..... Yet.

I'm still baffled by his motive......

I just dont get it.

Edited July 11, 2013 by jamhar

[Credo]

I am sorry to say, but this guy is really not very bright. He's probably singing like a canary with electricity running through his gonads or sodium pentathol coursing through his veins. He has shown no restraint. The people he is dealing with know how to get information -- they may not torture in the strictest sense of the word, but he will talk.

His restraint is because he is most likely not being allowed to talk to anyone. Has anyone seen him? Has he called his parents? Wikileaks hasn't said much.

[lannarebirth]

I am sorry to say, but this guy is really not very bright. He's probably singing like a canary with electricity running through his gonads or sodium pentathol coursing through his veins. He has shown no restraint. The people he is dealing with know how to get information -- they may not torture in the strictest sense of the word, but he will talk.

His restraint is because he is most likely not being allowed to talk to anyone. Has anyone seen him? Has he called his parents? Wikileaks hasn't said much.

Snowden: I never gave any information to Chinese or Russian governments

As a new poll shows widespread American approval for him, the NSA whistleblower vehemently denies media claims

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/jul/10/snowden-denies-information-russia-china

Edited July 11, 2013 by lannarebirth

[Credo]

Thanks for the link. I am not sure that I am convinced about his claims, but time will tell.

[Credo]

The problem with the article is it doesn't say where they interviewed Snowden. There are no new pictures of him -- was it a real interview, a phone interview. Where is he?

The article also simply attacks the US and the journalists/papers/magazines that are reporting something different.

[lannarebirth]

Thanks for the link. I am not sure that I am convinced about his claims, but time will tell.

As the journalist notes; his claims are not dispositive but they are the ONLY accredited claims anyone has made. Everything else has either been either innuendo or unsubstantiated claims made by anonymous "sources".

Edited July 11, 2013 by lannarebirth

[jamhar]

I am sorry to say, but this guy is really not very bright. He's probably singing like a canary with electricity running through his gonads or sodium pentathol coursing through his veins. He has shown no restraint. The people he is dealing with know how to get information -- they may not torture in the strictest sense of the word, but he will talk.

His restraint is because he is most likely not being allowed to talk to anyone. Has anyone seen him? Has he called his parents? Wikileaks hasn't said much.

Could be Credo. I have not heard of any source saying that they have seen him. Wikileaks have submitted the asylum applications for him i believe.

I dont know about not being very bright. Even smart people make mistakes. I consider myself somewhat bright, yet i married my ex <deleted> was i thinking? lol

But i'm amazed at Snowdens missteps. How can you go from "shoot them in the balls", to "sign me up!"

Maybe there were missteps by his superiors or NSA in not recognizing him earlier.

On the surface, everything is status quo at the NSA and its contractors, but i bet theres significant fallout internally.

Snowden: I never gave any information to Chinese or Russian governments

As a new poll shows widespread American approval for him, the NSA whistleblower vehemently denies media claims

http://www.guardian....on-russia-china

Also regarding the link of Snowdens interview. Thank you for the link.

I found it odd that "i gave no information" was the only reference to an interview that occured on Tues's and Wed's.

Maybe Snowden requested released information to be limited until he arrived at his destination, when ever that occured.

Its still develpoping situation so I'm with Credo. We'll see what happens.

[Credo]

Where things start to break down is why did HK (and China) treat him so well and then boot him out? Why was Russia so welcoming and now suddenly has said he should be on his way?

He may not have given them any information, but that does preclude the fact that they may have taken a lot of information.