I was talking to a Buddhist friend today about different religions. Talking about Christianity I told him what I think to be the truth: that people who believe in the Christian religion believe that the man Jesus (the savior of Christians) was born of a woman named Mary, a virgin in human sex, and that his father was God. He looked at me like I was talking crazy talk. I responded well, of course it does not sound logical but religious belief involves faith.

Is what I said true or not? If not, what did I get wrong?

Christianity in general. I know different sects have different takes.

I don't want to influence this friend either positively or negatively about Christianity but I do want to tell him something close to the truth about it.

You hit it right on the head. There might be some new-agey types that believe in Christ as the savior with no virgin birth, but no sex is the company line.

No. The bible is riddled with euphemisms, and anyone who takes such a book literally is going to struggle in Thailand.

SC

What is the belief that Mary was a virgin a euphemism for? Are you saying the majority of Christians don't really believe in the virgin birth?

Christianity involves belief in MIRACLES yes?

Was rising from the dead also a so called euphemism?

Your Thailand comment is irrelevant and ridiculous.

Also, what about the resurrection after the Christ returns. I know fundamentalists believe Christians will pop out of their graves. What do Catholics think will happen?

I think I meant to ask about the so called rapture. That I think is about live Christians getting zapped into space. Does that apply to people in graves too? Such an exciting religion!

What's the point of arguing about religion with an Atheist?

The battle lines are not drawn, they are chiselled. It's a waste of time.

I thought the question was less a matter of faith than of dogma. Is christianity a dogmatic religion and in order to call oneself a Christian, does one need to personally initial and sign off as literally true every verse of the New Testament?

I've never been much of a church-goer, but I was never asked to do that, and nor were any of my church-going friends and acquaintances.

However, it appears that our Jewish friends believe that it is necessary. Perhaps in their religion it is necessary to personally affirm each clause of their faith as literally true. I don't know, and I'm not interested.

SC

JT, obviously something got lost in translation, you can be ( or try to be ) a Christian without believing nonsense.

I'm going to try to ask these questions again because they were asked in the context of explaining stuff to someone.

The questions aren't about Judaism or atheism, but Christianity.

I made the mistake of emphasizing the belief requirements of Christians rather than the actual teachings/dogma.

So I will try again, because that's what I really think wanted explaining.

As far as the general teachings of Christianity, please summarize (regardless of whether you believe or not or whether you need to believe literally to be a Christian):

1. Virgin birth. Mary was literally a virgin?

2. The Christ. If Mary was a Virgin how did she get impregnated and by who precisely?

3. Second coming. What happens to live believers. What happens to dead believers.

Thank you.

What's the point of arguing about religion with an Atheist?

The battle lines are not drawn, they are chiselled. It's a waste of time.

I'm not trying to "argue" here. Please stop trying to imagine a fight when there isn't one. I was only seeking information.

1. Virgin birth. Mary was literally a virgin?

2. The Christ. If Mary was a Virgin how did she get impregnated and by who precisely?

3. Second coming. What happens to live believers. What happens to dead believers.

1. Yes

2. God made her pregnant magically.

3. If I remember correctly, live believers are whisked away to heaven along with dead ones. It is called the Rapture. Non-believers will be stuck on Earth and Satan will rule. This is when Satan will rule without any interference on God's part. This is when, if you refuse to follow and accept Satan as your leader and have 666 stamped on your body then you will be killed immediately. Either way it will NOT be a time that ANYONE will enjoy. Then when God has had enough He will return to destroy Satan once and for all and banish him to Hell along with all the people who had decided to follow him. The former non-believers who realize the error of their ways and get saved will eventually go to heaven. God will "throw away" the old Earth and He will make a new Heaven and a new Earth for all of His children to live in forever.

I'm going to try to ask these questions again because they were asked in the context of explaining stuff to someone.

The questions aren't about Judaism or atheism, but Christianity.

I made the mistake of emphasizing the belief requirements of Christians rather than the actual teachings/dogma.

So I will try again, because that's what I really think wanted explaining.

As far as the general teachings of Christianity, please summarize (regardless of whether you believe or not or whether you need to believe literally to be a Christian):

1. Virgin birth. Mary was literally a virgin?

2. The Christ. If Mary was a Virgin how did she get impregnated and by who precisely?

3. Second coming. What happens to live believers. What happens to dead believers.

Thank you.

1) No

2) Who knows..

3) Life believers are too many and too different to summarize.. Dead ones.. Who knows..

Personally i believe in the law of cause and effect... I guess i could be called a Buddhist as well, although not an orthodox one.

So it is taught Jesus Christ is 1/2 man, 1/2 God, or what?

1. Virgin birth. Mary was literally a virgin?

2. The Christ. If Mary was a Virgin how did she get impregnated and by who precisely?

3. Second coming. What happens to live believers. What happens to dead believers.

1. Yes

2. God made her pregnant magically.

3. If I remember correctly, live believers are whisked away to heaven along with dead ones. It is called the Rapture. Non-believers will be stuck on Earth and Satan will rule. This is when Satan will rule without any interference on God's part. This is when, if you refuse to follow and accept Satan as your leader and have 666 stamped on your body then you will be killed immediately. Either way it will NOT be a time that ANYONE will enjoy. Then when God has had enough He will return to destroy Satan once and for all and banish him to Hell along with all the people who had decided to follow him. The former non-believers who realize the error of their ways and get saved will eventually go to heaven. God will "throw away" the old Earth and He will make a new Heaven and a new Earth for all of His children to live in forever.

Isn't there a logical error on rapture?

The non-believers who have left behind to the earth will either be satan's followers or dead. Therefore there is no former non-believer left to become believer when god visits the earth for the seconds time.

So it is taught Jesus Christ is 1/2 man, 1/2 God, or what?

Jesus is the son of God, and we are all God's children. I think the Bible is entirely clear about that.

There is no God but God, so Jesus was a man. I think the Bible is quite clear about that.

SC

How can "just a man" rise from the dead?

How can "just a man" rise from the dead?

It;s not for me to provide a rational explenation, but I am sure that there are many ways, Lazarus, after all, was just an ordinary geezer. In their 2012 game against Wakefield, Warrington came back from a 22 point defecit to resurrect their hopes of winning the league. Perhaps it was mouth to mouth resuscitation. Perhaps electrocardio-whatsitsname. Perhaps he was merely resting, like a parrot. Perhaps he was merely mortified, rather than morticious. We could speculate endlessly. If you want a rational explanation, why not invent your own? Whatever it was, it was a miracle.

SC

How can "just a man" rise from the dead?

It;s not for me to provide a rational explenation, but I am sure that there are many ways, Lazarus, after all, was just an ordinary geezer. In their 2012 game against Wakefield, Warrington came back from a 22 point defecit to resurrect their hopes of winning the league. Perhaps it was mouth to mouth resuscitation. Perhaps electrocardio-whatsitsname. Perhaps he was merely resting, like a parrot. Perhaps he was merely mortified, rather than morticious. We could speculate endlessly. If you want a rational explanation, why not invent your own? Whatever it was, it was a miracle.

SC

At this point it would be fair to ask JT a rational explaination why they chose to kill Jesus and save the criminal...

How can "just a man" rise from the dead?

It;s not for me to provide a rational explenation, but I am sure that there are many ways, Lazarus, after all, was just an ordinary geezer. In their 2012 game against Wakefield, Warrington came back from a 22 point defecit to resurrect their hopes of winning the league. Perhaps it was mouth to mouth resuscitation. Perhaps electrocardio-whatsitsname. Perhaps he was merely resting, like a parrot. Perhaps he was merely mortified, rather than morticious. We could speculate endlessly. If you want a rational explanation, why not invent your own? Whatever it was, it was a miracle.

SC

At this point it would be fair to ask JT a rational explaination why they chose to kill Jesus and save the criminal...

It would perhaps be reasonable to assume it was at the prompting of their priests, with whom Jesus had always had a bit of a contratemps.

By way of a bit of sectarian anti-papistry:

I very much doubt that Jesus would have put much store by the pronouncements of the pope, were he alive in those days, I don't think that Jesus belonged to any of the established churches, least of all the Christian ones of many years later.

SC

What's the point of arguing about religion with an Atheist?

The battle lines are not drawn, they are chiselled. It's a waste of time.

I'm not trying to "argue" here. Please stop trying to imagine a fight when there isn't one. I was only seeking information.

It's a question of faith, you either believe it or you don't .

How can "just a man" rise from the dead?

It's happened thousands of times through history, men awakening from a near death coma.

Next?

So it is taught Jesus Christ is 1/2 man, 1/2 God, or what?

Jesus walked the Earth as a man, and suffered as a man would suffer.

He was not sent as a God.

In the Christian faith there is only one God, and he is not half and half anything.

So if he was a man by logic he had a human father.

To the best of my knowledge, Christianity is not a closed shop, and one may hold whatever beliefs and still be a Christian. There may be some places where specific features may be taken as proof or otherwise of Christianity, though such narrow sectarianism is not, as far as I believe, in line with the teachings of Christ. As far as I am aware, there is no single school of Christian qualification, through which we all must pass, and while some sects may believe one thing, others may not. As far as I am aware, there is no prescriptive requirement on believing the literal truth of any fact in order to claim oneself a Christian.

Personally, I am surprised that atheists or followers of other faiths take such an interest in the detailed dogma of Christianity but as far as I am concerned, dogma is for minority sects, not the broad church of Jesus.

SC

I updated my question. I just want to understand the standard TEACHINGS. I'm not really asking about what qualifies a person as a "real" Christian. It was fascinating to me when I tried to communicate my understanding of the standard teachings that someone totally ignorant of Christianity looked at me like I was on serious drugs.

I updated my question. I just want to understand the standard TEACHINGS. I'm not really asking about what qualifies a person as a "real" Christian. It was fascinating to me when I tried to communicate my understanding of the standard teachings that someone totally ignorant of Christianity looked at me like I was on serious drugs.

Maybe you don't really understand Christianity.

SC

I updated my question. I just want to understand the standard TEACHINGS. I'm not really asking about what qualifies a person as a "real" Christian. It was fascinating to me when I tried to communicate my understanding of the standard teachings that someone totally ignorant of Christianity looked at me like I was on serious drugs.

Maybe you don't really understand Christianity.

SC

Maybe.

It's another religion that I don't believe in.

I wasn't trying to convert this person!

Nor was I interested in presenting an anti-Christian bias.

We were having a conversation about Jesus and what I thought to be the Christian belief system of who he was.

I think I was not wrong that the virgin birth concept is part of Christianity. That he had a mother but Jesus wasn't conceived by human sex according to Christian beliefs.

Are you saying that was totally off? Because I don't think so.

If you grow up knowing that story or believing in it it seems normal.

If told clinically to someone it is new to without the baggage of conversion attempts, I found it interesting that the response was absolute incredulity. I think he thought I got the story wrong which is why I asked here if I did get the story wrong, about the virgin birth.

Maybe some of you are only used to hearing Christianity discussed in the context of actually believing in it.

It's possible to talk about it without that baggage. I would hope!

The believers (the meek) inherit the earth.

Lazarus, after all, was just an ordinary geezer.

Daughter of Jairus was raised, not divine. All the graves in Jerusalem opened during the crucifixion and the occupants wondered the streets meeting up with old friends, again, not divine. Seems it was quite common before and during that period in history I must say.

In answer to the OP, it's a central tenet though there is a reasonable argument that it has not always been so. There is no mention in Mark which is thought to be the oldest gospel, nor in John. It could have been introduced to bolster conversions to Christianity which may well of flat-lined after the charismatic leader died. I'm not convinced of this argument.

It seems more likely to me that it may not have been as important as it became but it was still there from the start even if only because, like resurrections, it was common at the time. The god Attis was very popular about then and born of a virgin. Before that there was Isis, Krishna and Buddha who were certainly not lightweights. Hard to believe that the Jesus myth could have even got a foothold without including a virgin birth. I would fall on the side of it being there from the get go but I freely admit it would be a guess. An educated guess but still just a guess.

I have an unread paper somewhere which is supposed to show that 'virgin' is a mistranslation and should have been 'young woman'. I've had it for a while and to be perfectly honest, it's not on my reading list. Nothing will change one way or the other regardless. 72 virgins was found to be a mistranslation of 72 raisons many years back and that has had no discernible effect. I doubt there is a single extremist willing to blow themselves up in a school bus for the virgins and also doubt there is a single one who wouldn't do it because it was raisons.

To get back on topic. I've never understood why being born of a virgin is so important / why it is a central tenet, as it was not required of the messiah according to Jewish teachings which could be why JT has never really come across it. Parthenogenesis is not unthinkable and is in fact found in many species and, it wouldn't prove the divinity of the Jesus figure either way. From what I have seen it is of greater significance to the Catholic sect of Christianity but I may be wrong.

1. Virgin birth. Mary was literally a virgin?

2. The Christ. If Mary was a Virgin how did she get impregnated and by who precisely?

3. Second coming. What happens to live believers. What happens to dead believers.

1. Yes

2. God made her pregnant magically.

3. If I remember correctly, live believers are whisked away to heaven along with dead ones. It is called the Rapture. Non-believers will be stuck on Earth and Satan will rule. This is when Satan will rule without any interference on God's part. This is when, if you refuse to follow and accept Satan as your leader and have 666 stamped on your body then you will be killed immediately. Either way it will NOT be a time that ANYONE will enjoy. Then when God has had enough He will return to destroy Satan once and for all and banish him to Hell along with all the people who had decided to follow him. The former non-believers who realize the error of their ways and get saved will eventually go to heaven. God will "throw away" the old Earth and He will make a new Heaven and a new Earth for all of His children to live in forever.

Isn't there a logical error on rapture?

The non-believers who have left behind to the earth will either be satan's followers or dead. Therefore there is no former non-believer left to become believer when god visits the earth for the seconds time.

Supposedly, many of the non-believers will just be regular folks who have not accepted Christ out of ignorance or because they have been misled or tricked by Satan. They will have their last chance to believe after the rapture when they see what is happening around them. Hopefully, it will be pretty obvious by then that the bible and Christianity are not just a bunch of hogwash, because, so far, I am not sure about that.