Syria's Assad says Western strike could trigger regional war

[geriatrickid]

However, eighteen pages of the steady anti-Obama drumbeat of posts at this thread undermines the credibility and believability of the posts. This continues even now.

Constantly parroting the administration's spin - no matter how ridiculous - undermines one's posts a lot more than pointing out what an embarrasing debacle this whole incident has turned into.

nd what of the 2 key Republican Senators McCain and Graham who have taken the President to task for not bombing?

[geriatrickid]

EU: All info on Syria gas attack points to Assad

The European Union agreed on Saturday that the Aug. 21 chemical attack outside Damascus appears to have been the work of Syria's regime, but that any potential military attack against it should wait for a U.N. inspectors' report.

Germany joined in on blaming the attack on the Syrian government - it had been the only European member of the Group of 20 not to co-sign a joint statement issued Friday at the end of the group's meeting in St. Petersburg, Russia, blaming the regime.

The EU ministers also stressed that perpetrators for such chemical attacks should face possible prosecution by the International Criminal Court in The Hague.

http://news.yahoo.com/eu-syria-gas-attack-points-assad-112903386.html

IMO the German reluctance was out of a fear of Russia. Germany is dependent upon Russian natural gas.

Amazing, how the US gets lambasted for being a "slave" to Saudi Arabia and the Gulf States, yet Europeans conveniently forget about the EU's dependence upon Russian energy. Putin has Germany by the short hairs.

[Ulysses G.]

However, eighteen pages of the steady anti-Obama drumbeat of posts at this thread undermines the credibility and believability of the posts. This continues even now.

Constantly parroting the administration's spin - no matter how ridiculous - undermines one's posts a lot more than pointing out what an embarrasing debacle this whole incident has turned into.

nd what of the 2 key Republican Senators McCain and Graham who have taken the President to task for not bombing?

They have taken him to task for announcing an 'unbelievably small' strike in advance that would not do anything other than save face for the president. Either continue to do nothing - as with the other 100,000 deaths - or attack in a serious way that will destroy a significant amount of Assad's military capability. A pin-prick is not going to do it.

Edited September 12, 2013 by Ulysses G.

[lannarebirth]

EU: All info on Syria gas attack points to Assad

The European Union agreed on Saturday that the Aug. 21 chemical attack outside Damascus appears to have been the work of Syria's regime, but that any potential military attack against it should wait for a U.N. inspectors' report.

Germany joined in on blaming the attack on the Syrian government - it had been the only European member of the Group of 20 not to co-sign a joint statement issued Friday at the end of the group's meeting in St. Petersburg, Russia, blaming the regime.

The EU ministers also stressed that perpetrators for such chemical attacks should face possible prosecution by the International Criminal Court in The Hague.

http://news.yahoo.com/eu-syria-gas-attack-points-assad-112903386.html

IMO the German reluctance was out of a fear of Russia. Germany is dependent upon Russian natural gas.

Amazing, how the US gets lambasted for being a "slave" to Saudi Arabia and the Gulf States, yet Europeans conveniently forget about the EU's dependence upon Russian energy. Putin has Germany by the short hairs.

I'm not sure who you think thinks the US is a "slave" to SA or the Gulf States. They are a client of the US and to a far lesser extent, vice versa.

[lannarebirth]

However, eighteen pages of the steady anti-Obama drumbeat of posts at this thread undermines the credibility and believability of the posts. This continues even now.

Constantly parroting the administration's spin - no matter how ridiculous - undermines one's posts a lot more than pointing out what an embarrasing debacle this whole incident has turned into.

nd what of the 2 key Republican Senators McCain and Graham who have taken the President to task for not bombing?

They have taken him to task for announcing an 'unbelievably small' strike in advance that would not do anything other than save face for the president. Either continue to do nothing - as with the other 100,000 deaths - or attack in a serious way that will destroy a significant amount of Assad's military capability. A pin-prick is not going to do it.

And the goal of attacking in a serious way would be to achieve what outcome?

[Publicus]

This ruse by Putin and Assad is obvious and already is recognized as impossible to accomplish in the midst of a civil war in Syria.

Those who think or believe Putin and Assad are genuine, honest or sincere in this bogus proposal are completely kidding either themselves or trying to pull our leg.

The people who trust and praise Putin must be just like him. And the people who protect, defend and seek to preserve the tyrant Assad in power are interested in promoting only further chaos in the Middle East.

Assad has his chemical weapons so he can threaten and menace Israel. Assad has been occupied the past two plus years by the insurrection of his people against his regime. Assad however is not going to surrender his most potent weapon against Israel, a weapon which is also highly useful to him against the domestic rebellion.

It anyway is just impractical to possess and dispose of all of Assad's chemical weapons in the midst of a civil war. Assad has the fourth largest supply in the world of chemical weapons. Those who say Assad only has a couple of chemical bombs are obviously not in contact with this reality.

The American people and the Congress gradually are going to come around to realize that Prez Obama is correct in his judgement that Assad and his military need to be subjected to US military strikes.

There's Almost No Chance Russia's Plan for Syria's Chemical Weapons Will Work

If the U.S. and Syria came to a deal -- a very, very big if -- there would still be one major wrinkle. The only two organizations who really know how to get rid of chemical weapons are the Russia and American militaries.

Given the amount of time it would take to build and then operate the disposal facilities, specially-trained troops would need to stay in Syria for years. In a war-weary U.S., keeping that many boots on the ground for that long would be an extremely hard sell.

http://thecable.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2013/09/10/theres_almost_no_chance_this_russian_plan_for_syrias_chemical_weapons_will_work

[Ulysses G.]

I'm not sure who you think thinks the US is a "slave" to SA or the Gulf States. They are a client of the US and to a far lesser extent, vice versa.

I'm pretty sure that putting "slave" in quotation marks was supposed to signify sarcasm.

Edited September 12, 2013 by Ulysses G.

[Ulysses G.]

And the goal of attacking in a serious way would be to achieve what outcome?

I am not in favor of it, but at least it might deter Assad from using chemical weapons. An 'unbelievably small' strike would not do spit.

Edited September 12, 2013 by Ulysses G.

[SinglePot]

Who knows. Comon sense suggests an effective antidote to a prick with a toxic chemical is the order of the day.

[lannarebirth]

This ruse by Putin and Assad is obvious and already is recognized as impossible to accomplish in the midst of a civil war in Syria.

Those who think or believe Putin and Assad are genuine, honest or sincere in this bogus proposal are completely kidding either themselves or trying to pull our leg.

The people who trust and praise Putin must be just like him. And the people who protect, defend and seek to preserve the tyrant Assad in power are interested in promoting only further chaos in the Middle East.

Assad has his chemical weapons so he can threaten and menace Israel. Assad has been occupied the past two plus years by the insurrection of his people against his regime. Assad however is not going to surrender his most potent weapon against Israel, a weapon which is also highly useful to him against the domestic rebellion.

It anyway is just impractical to possess and dispose of all of Assad's chemical weapons in the midst of a civil war. Assad has the fourth largest supply in the world of chemical weapons. Those who say Assad only has a couple of chemical bombs are obviously not in contact with this reality.

Your propaganda seems to evolving into an inclusion of Israel now, I see. And now it's "his people" threatening him rather than a ragtag coalition of extremist foreign fundamentalists. I hope you find your work personally rewarding at least.

[lannarebirth]

And the goal of attacking in a serious way would be to achieve what outcome?

I am not in favor of it, but at least it might deter Assad from using chemical weapons. An 'unbelievably small' strike would not do spit.

I don't trust Assad or Vladamir Putin Or Obama, but there's a lot to like in the Putin plan. First of all there isn't anyone that doesn't already know that Assad has chemical weapons. There isn't anyone with an IQ over 100 that doesn't know that Assad absolutely CANNOT use those chemical weapons EVER. It was a stroke of brilliance by Putin to offer to give up something that everyone knows you can't use.

[Publicus]

This ruse by Putin and Assad is obvious and already is recognized as impossible to accomplish in the midst of a civil war in Syria.

Those who think or believe Putin and Assad are genuine, honest or sincere in this bogus proposal are completely kidding either themselves or trying to pull our leg.

The people who trust and praise Putin must be just like him. And the people who protect, defend and seek to preserve the tyrant Assad in power are interested in promoting only further chaos in the Middle East.

Assad has his chemical weapons so he can threaten and menace Israel. Assad has been occupied the past two plus years by the insurrection of his people against his regime. Assad however is not going to surrender his most potent weapon against Israel, a weapon which is also highly useful to him against the domestic rebellion.

It anyway is just impractical to possess and dispose of all of Assad's chemical weapons in the midst of a civil war. Assad has the fourth largest supply in the world of chemical weapons. Those who say Assad only has a couple of chemical bombs are obviously not in contact with this reality.

Your propaganda seems to evolving into an inclusion of Israel now, I see. And now it's "his people" threatening him rather than a ragtag coalition of extremist foreign fundamentalists. I hope you find your work personally rewarding at least.

My mentioning Israel, only in brief passing, got your immediate attention, didn't it? Predictable.

Your use of the word "propaganda" misrepresents me and my views, my approach in this matter. I'd recommend you rethink your misperceptions of me in all of this. Give attention to having a better balance so that you don't so easily and readily misrepresent me again, thx.

Edited September 12, 2013 by Publicus

[FDog]

This is the crux of it, yet FDog et al. want to pat Putin on the back when he is done nothing to avert genocide or human tragedy. He is just removing the US's rationale for intervention so Assad can continue with his mass genocide and war crimes.

The crux of it is that Assad is fighting terrorists.

[Ulysses G.]

This ruse by Putin and Assad is obvious and already is recognized as impossible to accomplish in the midst of a civil war in Syria.

Those who think or believe Putin and Assad are genuine, honest or sincere in this bogus proposal are completely kidding either themselves or trying to pull our leg.

I agree. If Obama strikes anyway - in a significant way - I might have to take him more seriously.

Again, I do not think the strike is a good idea when one looks at all the circumstances, but, in retrospect, if Obama had struck and struck hard without all the telegraphing - no leaks, no going to Congress - he might have accomplished what he says that he is trying to do.

I'm pretty sure that the polls would have been in his favor if he had acted decisively and then put out the propoganda showing children dying from chemical weapons.

[Publicus]

This is the crux of it, yet FDog et al. want to pat Putin on the back when he is done nothing to avert genocide or human tragedy. He is just removing the US's rationale for intervention so Assad can continue with his mass genocide and war crimes.

The crux of it is that Assad is fighting terrorists.

The central point of it is that Assad is a tyrant and that Putin is a puppet master in Syria.

I oppose Assad. Am I a terrorist, or a terrorist sympathizer?

[Ulysses G.]

There isn't anyone with an IQ over 100 that doesn't know that Assad absolutely CANNOT use those chemical weapons EVER.

Most people would have thought the same thing one month ago, but, apparently, he DID.

[Publicus]

This ruse by Putin and Assad is obvious and already is recognized as impossible to accomplish in the midst of a civil war in Syria.

Those who think or believe Putin and Assad are genuine, honest or sincere in this bogus proposal are completely kidding either themselves or trying to pull our leg.

I agree. If Obama strikes anyway - in a significant way - I might have to take him more seriously.

Again, I do not think the strike is a good idea when one looks at all the circumstances, but, in retrospect, if Obama had struck and struck hard without all the telegraphing - no leaks, no going to Congress - he might have accomplished what he says that he is trying to do.

I'm pretty sure that the polls would have been in his favor if he had acted decisively and then put out the propoganda showing children dying from chemical weapons.

I want to agree with you but Monday morning quarterbacking is of limited, if any, value.

A lot of things can look much more clear in hindsight.

[Publicus]

There isn't anyone with an IQ over 100 that doesn't know that Assad absolutely CANNOT use those chemical weapons EVER.

Most people would have thought the same thing one month ago, but, apparently, he DID.

Quite.

Anyone with an IQ greater than 100 knows Prez Obama is right, that if Assad and Putin are not punished now for having used chemical warfare against the opposition they will use chemical warfare again, and again against men, women, children.

Putin and Assad already have made clear to the Syrian people in opposition to them they will kill their children - the school that Assad's air force firebombed is the most recent example. Assad firebombed a school building full of children in an opposition area. A school building full of children.

Assad and his people and Putin are ruthless, cut throat bastards. They deserve to be struck militarily so their own military capabilities to kill children can be degraded and reduced in serious ways.

[lannarebirth]

There isn't anyone with an IQ over 100 that doesn't know that Assad absolutely CANNOT use those chemical weapons EVER.

Most people would have thought the same thing one month ago, but, apparently, he DID.

Quite.

Anyone with an IQ greater than 100 knows Prez Obama is right, that if Assad and Putin are not punished now for having used chemical warfare against the opposition they will use chemical warfare again, and again against men, women, children.

Putin and Assad already have made clear to the Syrian people in opposition to them they will kill their children - the school that Assad's air force firebombed is the most recent example. Assad firebombed a school building full of children in an opposition area. A school building full of children.

Assad and his people and Putin are ruthless, cut throat bastards. They deserve to be struck militarily so their own military capabilities to kill children can be degraded and reduced in serious ways.

I'm going to give you the benefit of any doubt, which I don't have many of; but do you think for even a second, we wouldn't bomb a school/ w children if the military assessment says there's some strategic target there? We would, and that's why we have no business there. We can only add to the carnage. Each Syrian life is precious. Just like each American life is precious.

Edited September 12, 2013 by lannarebirth

[Ulysses G.]

I'm going to give you the benefit of any doubt, which I don't have many of; but you do think for even a second, we wouldn't bomb a school/ w children if the military assessment says there's some strategic target there? We would, and that's why we have no business there.

I don't agree. We might if the target was VERY important and there was no other way to do it - think killing Assad himself if we were determined to do it (and I am not sure about that). Nowdays, we would not purposely bomb a school with children in it unless it was for something that would turn the tide of war.

Edited September 12, 2013 by Ulysses G.

[FDog]

Publicus, you have learnt nothing about history. Some countries need dictators and tyrants. Look at Iraq, Hussein was a tyrant but look at the alternative that has happened now. The country is in a complete mess with no end in site. Many factions now getting even with the others and it is in a worse position than it was before the war.

So do tell, what is the alternative with Syria? You don't like Assad and Putin, nor China. So you prefer al queda terrorists to run the country as an alternative.

How strange.

[Chicog]

This is the crux of it, yet FDog et al. want to pat Putin on the back when he is done nothing to avert genocide or human tragedy. He is just removing the US's rationale for intervention so Assad can continue with his mass genocide and war crimes.

The crux of it is that Assad is fighting terrorists.

Oh how ridiculously simplistic. The fact that extremist groups have joined in the fray does not mean every Syrian fighting for their liberty and safety is a terrorist.

That's like saying that every right winger in the US is a terrorist because of Timothy McVeigh.

Could you try and stick to facts rather than this emotive nonsense you keep spewing out.

[Chicog]

Publicus, you have learnt nothing about history. Some countries need dictators and tyrants. Look at Iraq, Hussein was a tyrant but look at the alternative that has happened now. The country is in a complete mess with no end in site. Many factions now getting even with the others and it is in a worse position than it was before the war.

So do tell, what is the alternative with Syria? You don't like Assad and Putin, nor China. So you prefer al queda terrorists to run the country as an alternative.

How strange.

Could you tell us the "many factions now getting even with others"?

Or is it, perchance, the ousted Sunni minority trying to get their own back on the (now governing) Shi'a majority of which Saddam oppressed, tortured, jailed and murdered hundreds of thousands over his tenure?

Some countries need dictators, huh? Maybe, if they are benevolent ones. Saddam certainly wasn't in that category.

And where do you get the idea that there are enough Al Qaeda members in Syria to get popular support to form a government?

The Syrian people are no fans of Al Qaida, but for the Sunni, right now, they are a necessary evil.

Plus, not every foreign fighter in Syria is a terrorist. Many of them are untrained Sunni Arabs and went there purely to help protect their Sunni brothers and sisters from Assad's genocide.

Edited September 12, 2013 by Chicog

[Chicog]

And the goal of attacking in a serious way would be to achieve what outcome?

I am not in favor of it, but at least it might deter Assad from using chemical weapons. An 'unbelievably small' strike would not do spit.

Oh I don't know, a strike with a handful of casualties, say from the same family, could well be a tipping point.

[Chicog]

EU: All info on Syria gas attack points to Assad

The European Union agreed on Saturday that the Aug. 21 chemical attack outside Damascus appears to have been the work of Syria's regime, but that any potential military attack against it should wait for a U.N. inspectors' report.

Germany joined in on blaming the attack on the Syrian government - it had been the only European member of the Group of 20 not to co-sign a joint statement issued Friday at the end of the group's meeting in St. Petersburg, Russia, blaming the regime.

The EU ministers also stressed that perpetrators for such chemical attacks should face possible prosecution by the International Criminal Court in The Hague.

http://news.yahoo.com/eu-syria-gas-attack-points-assad-112903386.html

IMO the German reluctance was out of a fear of Russia. Germany is dependent upon Russian natural gas.

Amazing, how the US gets lambasted for being a "slave" to Saudi Arabia and the Gulf States, yet Europeans conveniently forget about the EU's dependence upon Russian energy. Putin has Germany by the short hairs.

Yet, ironically, both Iran and the GCC want a pipeline straight through Syria to the Med....

[Ulysses G.]

Oh I don't know, a strike with a handful of casualties, say from the same family, could well be a tipping point.

After all the talk of what we are not going to do, I would love to see Obama explain that.

[lannarebirth]

I'm going to give you the benefit of any doubt, which I don't have many of; but you do think for even a second, we wouldn't bomb a school/ w children if the military assessment says there's some strategic target there? We would, and that's why we have no business there.

I don't agree. We might if the target was VERY important and there was no other way to do it - think killing Assad himself if we were determined to do it (and I am not sure about that). Nowdays, we would not purposely bomb a school with children in it unless it was for something that would turn the tide of war.

If it were "Assad himself" we were out to kill, you don't think we could have done that by now? Seriously? You don't think there isn't some task group that knows where he is and what he's doing just about every minute of every day? He's too useful to us to become a martyr, just yet.

[Ulysses G.]

That is not what I said. I said "if we were determined to do it.". We are not.

[boomerangutang]

Humans' thinking is very mutable. Imagine the schoolyard bully strutting around, and all the other kids cowering. Then along comes a bigger kid who casts a shadow on the bully. In an instant, the bully becomes meek. Similar dynamic happens in the M.E. One moment, a faction is strutting around like cocks (shouting death to this and that). The next moment, when the dynamic shifts, they're cowering in caves (saying; Islam is a religion of peace and tolerance).

Fractured dialog between Putin and Assad:

Putin: "hey bud, I found away you can put off getting bombed."

Assad: "Yea?! How's that?"

P: "We'll make an announcement that you will reveal your chemi weapons."

A: "Does that mean I have to admit having them?"

P: "Sure. Anyhow, they're not much good to you now, because if you're caught using them again, you get your ass fried."

A: "Yea, I guess you're right."

P: "And you have to agree to destroy them."

A: "What! I paid good money for that stuff. I don't want to pay to destroy it."

P: "Ok, don't sweat it. We'll get the Americans to pay for destroying it. They paid us to safeguard our nuclear stuff. You know how the Americans are always willing to pay bunches of money for stuff we would only pay a little bit for."

A: "What if I keep some chemicals. Who's going to know:?"

P: "I didn't hear that."

A: "What if I keep...."

P: "No no. I meant, I don't want to know about you doing underhanded stuff."

A: "What if I tell the world I'm going to destroy the weapons. We get just a small portion destroyed.... will that keep the Americans from bombing me?"

P: "Probably. We can string this out for months on end. The Yanks are already running on 3 cylinders, so stringing this out for months will take all the wind out of their sails.

A: "And they won't know about hidden weapons, if they can't find them, right?"

P: "Right, but that's the sort of info you shouldn't tell me, because I don't want it to come out later with Wikileaks or..."

A: "Or somebody like Snowden spilling the beans?"

P: "No he wouldn't. He's my bitch now. He knows if he crosses me, he's dust."

Edited September 12, 2013 by boomerangutang

[Publicus]

There isn't anyone with an IQ over 100 that doesn't know that Assad absolutely CANNOT use those chemical weapons EVER.

Most people would have thought the same thing one month ago, but, apparently, he DID.

Quite.

Anyone with an IQ greater than 100 knows Prez Obama is right, that if Assad and Putin are not punished now for having used chemical warfare against the opposition they will use chemical warfare again, and again against men, women, children.

Putin and Assad already have made clear to the Syrian people in opposition to them they will kill their children - the school that Assad's air force firebombed is the most recent example. Assad firebombed a school building full of children in an opposition area. A school building full of children.

Assad and his people and Putin are ruthless, cut throat bastards. They deserve to be struck militarily so their own military capabilities to kill children can be degraded and reduced in serious ways.

I'm going to give you the benefit of any doubt, which I don't have many of; but do you think for even a second, we wouldn't bomb a school/ w children if the military assessment says there's some strategic target there? We would, and that's why we have no business there. We can only add to the carnage. Each Syrian life is precious. Just like each American life is precious.

The issue, the vicious and malevolent crime, is that Assad and Putin consciously and with determination want to make clear to the opposition that they will kill their children.

Children were also killed in Assad's chemical warfare attacks.

Assad and Putin are cut throat murderers who deliberately targeted innocent children in their school building.

No one has said the particular school building contained anything of military value.

The school building was targeted only because it contained children of the regime's opponents. That is the point of Assad and Putin. If you oppose us, we will kill your children.

Dictators are necessarily tyrants. No tyrant has a conscience.