Shocking Price Rises At Phoenix Golf Club Pattaya

[topt]

The practical justifications from the self appointed PSC spokespersons is clinging to an ethical hook that doesn't exist. There are many courses in the area and taking part in the divide and conqueor strategy of the new management is dubious. I for one would tear up my PSC card.

".....would tear up...." - does this mean you don't have one?

Nose and face spring to mind

[bartpix]

Gentlemen,
All us shareholder / members of Phoenix Golf & Country Club ever wanted was to be informed and talked to by the latest owners of our club as would occur as a matter of form by any person / company taking over a club / company in an everyday amiable way. What has happened at Phoenix is inexplicable to the ordinary shareholder / member who have (in some cases) invested their life savings in what they thought was a nice retirement present to themselves. A membership in a club that would allow them to see out their days with the occasional round of golf with friends and aquaintances.
For some reason, the new owners decided to forego all that and impose a completely different set of rules and regulations on the shareholder / members without talking to or consulting with the existing shareholder / members.
It would be nice if the current management of Phoenix talked to the existing shareholder / members and came to an agreed conclusion, so we all might put Phoenix Golf & Country Club back where it should be as one of the best Pattaya Golf Clubs and enable the membership to grow to a sustainable level for ongoing improvements to the course and a profitable future for the new owners.

[mogy]

Just to be Clear ...... Finsbury (whatever that means)

"The Phoenix members made it clear to everyone else that their campaign was aimed solely at improving their own terms and they would not be interesting themselves in improving terms for the average PSC member."

I have no idea where you plucked that "quote" from but it certainly was not included in the previous posts from Phoenix Shareholder / Members that contribute to TV postings. The existing Phoenix Shareholder / Members took the action not alone for their personable situation but for the benefit of all golfers that might wish to play Phoenix. And as you may have missed, the terms for golfers has changed at Phoenix since a case was initiated against them. Do you really think this would have occured without the case been brought against them?

If you do not wish to support the shareholder / member fight against injustice and right of membership as purchased - that is your right. But please get your facts correct and in your terms " get real ". If you wish to ignore what has happened at this course, that is your decision. But remember that once one club succeeds in " putting down the protest " the remainder of the cartel will follow.

Again I reiterate, I am retired and purchased my shareholder / membership of Phoenix with the sole purpose of playing golf for as long as I am able to, without hassle. That is what I paid for and expect. The new owners are trying to change the rules without discussion / consultation with existing shareholder / members. For me, this is not the way to do business. What I am really sad about is the attitude of posters such as Finsbury who have no consideration of the real case that is ongoing and are not interested in acquainting themselves with the facts.

After you have sought out the opinions of the shareholder / members and what has transpired to date, I look forward to your update.

It was the law of supply and demand that made Phoenix change to a non compulsory cart rule. The idea that it was legal action taken by some disgruntled members is laughable.

Phoenix members have battled against the course giving attractive terms for PSC members for years, hence the lack of support you are getting from them now.

Lifetime members of Tony's Gym might feel your pain, but they probably will not be coming out on the streets in support either.

Finsbury: what twaddle are you on about with that comment about Phoenix members battling against the PSC for years against them getting better rates ?

I've been at Phoenix for 9 years, know a substantial number of members and have never heard anything even remotely like this.

Phoenix ownership attempted to railroad it's members into a new membership deal effectively negating anything positive about the old one with respect to membership duration, playing conditions, yearly and round costs etc. and tied us to a falling guillotine by imposing a transfer fee that is just about the same cost as a membership. Nice work by them. Seen fair to you ? Good luck to you if it does.

It is a quality course, but I for one, despite my membership, hope it fails miserably and the owners losses open their eyes to the lower-so folk they tried to shaft.

As bartpix said a lot of people invested what is a lot of money for them and got pi$$ed down on from above. The sheer ignorance of the owners in purposely refusing to speak to anyone at any stage of this fiasco should indicate to you and the PSC chairman what the situation is like with them.

PSC as a club should have at least shown some respect and courtesy to ITS members who are at odds with Phoenix and as pointed out before, a note to same members explaining the situation prior to any courting being done may have avoided this subsequent bout. However the chairmans newfound 'friend'ship with Phoenix GM obviously has had a profound effect on how his decision making takes place since new found friendship and possible glory has outweighed any loyalty or decency to long time PSC members.

Nice work by PSC also. Yourselves and Phoenix are obviously well met.

[andreask90]

Bartpix, Phoenix Golf & Country Club is now an empty shell with members, but no assets. All assets like golf course, equipment and clubhouse were illegally transferred to Phoenix GOLD Golf & Country Club by the new owners without informing or asking the members. This is what the present law suits are about. Before members have something to negotiate about the assets have to be transferred back to Phoenix Golf & Country Club by a court, resp. by a Pattaya court, then the Appeals court and then the Supreme court, which will take at least 3 years.

Experience shows, that nothing will come out of the law suits, because this is Thailand and not a civilized country. But we should still be thankful to those, who sue anyways to expose criminal actions.

[gk10002000]

unfortunately, I would not be surprised if the other courses communicate and prices go up

[topt]

unfortunately, I would not be surprised if the other courses communicate and prices go up

Could you please explain what you are talking about?

Low season is almost here and there are some very good prices at certain courses already.

[finsbury]

unfortunately, I would not be surprised if the other courses communicate and prices go up

Could you please explain what you are talking about?

Low season is almost here and there are some very good prices at certain courses already.

Yes but the Phoenix stay always prefer for some reason to have their tantrum and play at Pattaya CC, which is one of the worst value courses.

Never mind.

[bartpix]

"Yes but the Phoenix stay always prefer for some reason to have their tantrum and play at Pattaya CC, which is one of the worst value courses. Never mind.

Edited by finsbury, Yesterday, 03:43"

Finsbury, perhaps you might consider posting when you are in a better frame of mind so it actually makes sense.

[ravip]

Maybe they are looking for quality members.

[Fisherman194]

Finsbury ravioli and Gk am sure if you do a search you will find an inane comments section.Why not post your comments there !!!

[bartpix]

Gents, without the boycott by members of Phoenix (Gold) Golf & Country Club, the capitulation of, compulsory carts, Baht 200,000 transfer fees and the other impositions imposed on the members by the new management would not have succeeded. I am sure that a number will disagree, but there are still original loyal members out there that refuse to bend to suppression.

[thinkingman]

I am back in the USA. Did Phoenix Golf reduce the transfer fee? On all, or just "new" members of Phoenix Gold?

[bartpix]

Yes, the transfer fee has been reduced for a limited period but those who signup receive no written proof of their membership privileges. They just have to accept the word of the current manager who may be on the move soon.

[johninbkk]

Posted on: Phoenix member action group.

Is anyone aware that Pattaya Country Golf Club has done the same to their life members as Phoenix is attempting to do. At Pattaya CC there is no such membership as life, only yearly. How could you ever trust any establishment in Thailand!

I suggest we all put in Baht 1,000 and hire our own Lawyer. Why waste any more time.

I have been dealing with Bangkok CPB for the past 6 years on a different matter, what a waste of time. They do not even have the courtesy to return notification they had received our letters posted by EMS and addressed to the acting lawyer on our case.
Over the years I have written to this department 5 times, had spent hours in their Bkk office and was informed we cannot lose this case. Yeah! Right! 6 years later, nothing. A load of BS.….

“A NEW MEMBERS GOLF CLUB OPENNING SOON”

If anyone is interested, I had a meeting yesterday with the Managing Director and marketing team for a “NEW” golf course in the Pattaya region. No, not just another one of those scams. The course is designed, owned and operated by a female golfing professional. Other directors include management staff from Thai Country Club and golf course owners.

I approached them on a proposal of having a members club, not unlike your own golf club back home. They showed a lot of interest in what I was suggesting and asked if I would be willing to meet with the owners and directors to discuss my marketing concept.

Would any one like to comment or suggest what they’d prefer, yearly or lifetime membership. I think there are many options and I’d like to hear from golfer what their requirements are, or what you perceive as the optimal membership. If you prefer to mail direct. [email protected]

P.S. I am not trying to Hi-jack members of this group, just trying to have a Golf Club we all can be members of and start to enjoy our golf again. Over the past 18 months out of Phoenix I have been driving all over the province just to get a game at reasonable rates.

(I too want to conclude the fight against Phoenix)

[bartpix]

The case against Phoenix brought by the Thai members has been re-submitted to the court with the updated information on the companies and individuals running the course and club. In addition, further details that were not in the possession of these members, were added to strengthen their case by the CPB in Bkk who ARE continuing their own case – albeit at a bureaucratic pace.

Anyone who is interested in the exact details of where the CPB case is ( and I suggest that all members should be – even those that have returned to play there without receiving any written confirmation of what their entitlements are ) can call CPB on 1166, using a Thai speaker for clarity, quoting our case number and you will be put through to the lawyer dealing with it.

If you wish to do this and do not have the case number, PM me.

[arunsakda]

Just checked the Phoenix site for current rates:

Rates & Membership

18 Hole (Baht) 9 Hole (Baht)

Green Fee

- Weekday 2,500 1,300

- Weekend and Holiday 3,000 1,600

Caddy Fee 350 200

Golf Cart 700 350

Rental (Baht)

- Golf Set 1,200

- Golf Shoes 300

Umbrella 150

Similar prices to first class courses in England,they don't deserve any customers

England? The club would have to pay me to play in the sodding rain.

[topt]

Just checked the Phoenix site for current rates:

Rates & Membership

18 Hole (Baht) 9 Hole (Baht)

Green Fee

- Weekday 2,500 1,300

- Weekend and Holiday 3,000 1,600

Caddy Fee 350 200

Golf Cart 700 350

Rental (Baht)

- Golf Set 1,200

- Golf Shoes 300

Umbrella 150

Similar prices to first class courses in England,they don't deserve any customers

England? The club would have to pay me to play in the sodding rain.

Current rate with a PSC card is 950 baht weekdays............

Even with its proximity to Pattaya it is still not that compelling to me compared to offers at Bangpra, Greenwood and Treasure Hill to name but three.

[thailandforumaddict]

Hello,

Could you tell me where are the good prices golf now ?

What about Pattaya country club ?

Thank you.

[bartpix]

The majority of courses in the Pattaya area are giving low season prices at the moment.

Your best bet is;

http://pattayasports.org/sports/golf/golf-rates/

Here you can see the current deals - but you must have a PSC card to avail of the discounts.

[SpudIslander]

Question: Does the owner of the golf course also own all the land surrounding the golf course? And if so, what negative effect if any has it been having on the land for sale prices?

[bartpix]

The answer is yes. Since the takeover in November 2013, prices of plots have increased two-fold and the service charges likewise. There is an ongoing dispute with the residents / houseowners over the increased charges with many refusing to pay the increased charges. I am sure some of the residents / houseowners that are members on this forum would be delighted to give exact details of the new charges they have to comply with.

[bartpix]

Coming November 1st. will be the 2nd anniversary of the Phoenix Golf & Country Club Members exclusion from playing their course due to restrictive practises by the new owners.
Sadly, Pattaya Golf Societies and Bars including the local Club to which we all must be a member in order to retain a handicap have virtually ignored the position of their Phoenix Golf Club members, whom have had to endure this situation for 2 years.
Hopefully, with a new Golf Chairperson in place and a sensible policy ongoing from our preferred club in Pattaya, we (the older members of Phoenix) would hope to have an amicable outcome ASAP.
As stated previously, the reluctance of the new owners of Phoenix to converse and engage with the existing (old) members of Phoenix is really strange and somewhat off-putting.
I for one, am hoping that a proper and amicable solution will be forthcoming within the coming deadline and we all will return to our dream of retirement golf as we imagined.
Here's hoping that a solution is at hand.

[Fisherman194]

A friend of mine played Phoenix recently,he reported that he played on a Monday (members play free on Mondays) the course was pretty well deserted, the course was certainly no better than it was 2 years ago.The course is no longer listed in the Premier golf guide,not sure if there is anyway back for the hole that Phenix Gold has dug for it self.Whilst they have drastically reduced there fees etc ( thanks to the boycott) I ask that the boycott continues untill they honour the obligation they have to the original members.

[topt]

A friend of mine played Phoenix recently,he reported that he played on a Monday (members play free on Mondays) the course was pretty well deserted, the course was certainly no better than it was 2 years ago.The course is no longer listed in the Premier golf guide,not sure if there is anyway back for the hole that Phenix Gold has dug for it self.Whilst they have drastically reduced there fees etc ( thanks to the boycott) I ask that the boycott continues untill they honour the obligation they have to the original members.

I played it a few weeks ago - first day of the Scottish Open. It certainly wasn't busy but then few courses are at the moment. Condition was fairly good. One of the 9s was closed and having major construction work done on it so money is still being spent........

[thinkingman]

They are flailing.

-Mandatory carts--didn't work

-Pattaya resident's card--didn't work

-Non-refundable drink tickets--Forget it!

-Bt 400 per round and annual Bt24,000 only lasted a month or two

-Bt24,000 annual membership fee plus Bt200 for each round (free on Mondays), drew back mostly those who lived at Phoenix.

-"Temporary" reduction of transfer fee to Bt80,000. Why sell? Even more, who would buy?

-Free carts on Tuesdays, OK they are getting 200 players with free carts (all in Bt1,300), otherwise the course is empty.

It was never a good strategy to run off your existing customers in the hope of getting new (stupid) ones. I can't think of one business where that strategy was even tried.

I'm a member and ran into the new Phoenix Events Director. He is the one responsible for Tuesday free carts and making inroads with the PSC. They are getting some golf bar play by making the greens fee and caddy Bt1300 (versus 1500 on weekdays at Green Valley) for PSC members. The place is still not busy (except on Tuesdays). It is "Millionaire's Golf", which is good if you are a golfer, but not so hot if you are the owner.

From what I gather, most of the members live in Phoenix, or their Thai wives play regularly with Phoenix residents.

Since we are now at about two years, most of the old members who have not rejoined are now members of Green Valley. A lot probably would not rejoin Phoenix unless the annual fee (now Bt24,000) was cut to Bt12,000 or, maybe, zero. Every day they wait, another golfer joins Green Valley or another club, and another opportunity for Phoenix is gone.

The owners of Green Valley must love to compete against them. Green Valley is busy all the time.

[bartpix]

I was just reading the cost of a 15 year membership at Parichat G.C., the new course just beyond Pattaya Country Club, Baht 150,000 for a 15 year membership with caddy fees at Baht 400 per round.
Wow, I hope they survive. Again I must point out that golf charges / fees are dropping around both Europe and the US, while the opposite seems to occur in Thailand.
I do realize that the main object of surviving in business is to make a profit, keep your existing clients happy and open the opportunity for new clients to join alongside your existing clients while keeping the elder (regular) groups from moving elsewhere. In my estimation, this is not rocket science, but would appear to be lacking in the decisions decided upon by certain golf clubs.
To re-inforce the disparity, I just received an email from the AGENT from whom I bought my membership, asking if I knew anybody who wanted a Green Valley Membership, he now had a membership until October 2035 (20 years and some months) for Baht 155,000 including transfer fee for the privilege of playing 54 holes at membership rates. (Green Valley, St. Andrews and Silky Oaks).
If anybody is interested in this offer, PM me for the contact details. You will deal directly with the agent and negotiate the final pricing together. Just to be clear - It has nothing to do with me - I am merely passing on the information.
Again, I re-iterate that, I retired to Thailand to play a sport that I am average at, but presented me with the weather opportunities that I could not have availed of elsewhere - to the same degree.
As TAT may be discovering - The number 1 tourist at the moment (Chinese) along with the number 2 tourist (Russian), number 3 (Indians) are not major golf players, the emphasis has changed and the local courses have to rely on regulars and Asian playing groups.
As per usual, I am ever hopeful that a consensus might be agreed upon, and we will all live out our lives as we envisioned. Here's to a happy relaxed future.

[sticklee]

There are still huge numbers of Korean and Japanese golfers coming to Chiang Mai every high season. As a result, good deals on greens fees and memberships are hard to find. Even tee times are difficult to get at times. There is no shortage of courses, with a new 9 hole (expanding in the future) just opened and a newly renovated course. As a comparison, golf in Canada is very expensive, the season is short and good deals do not exist. Even on booking sites such as GolfNow unless you are prepared to drive 1-2 hours to play very average courses. If your 'Agent' has any good membership deals in CM send me a message.

[bartpix]

Interesting Diversion from Phoenix Golf & Country Club, Pattaya.

Met with a Phoenix G & C Club member- recently joined - who was having a drink in in the clubhouse with other members when they were joined by a personable executive of the management who told them that the court case against the club was basically over, as they had managed to defer the case until the end of 2016. But had to admit that the reduction in transfer fees etc. were only a temporary measure and would not commit anything to writing, let alone meet with the boycotting members to discuss and negotiate.

This personable executive appears to enjoy spreading numerous rumours to attract business dis-reguarding the realities on the ground.

The reality is that the case has been deferred to November 11th 2015 at 13:30 at the Pattaya Civil Court, Thappraya Road, because of the intensely busy schedules of the club's legal representatives resulting in their inability to negotiate before then. (Form your own opinions)
Maybe all you itinerant members since November 1st 2013 would care to have a peek at Thai justice in action on Wednesday November 11th - free entrance but no free beer though!

[LBFM1]

Dear Bartpix,

Can you update the main issue to be covered in the 11 November court hearing.?

Is it regarding prices or the status of old members?

Thanks

[bartpix]

Hi LBFM,
It is both.
As happens it seems, in every case in Thailand the judge pushes time and time again to have an agreement worked out between the two parties rather than making a judgement after a given number of failed discussion / negotiation sessions. This of course prolongs the whole procedure allowing (a) delaying tactics by one party and ( cases to backup to an incredulous degree. The argument being made is that over 100 members have accepted the new demands and returned without question, so therefore the outstanding members should accept the same. My belief in talking to the members I came across and played with at Phoenix prior to November 2013 and since, is that 20 odd have returned because of living on / close by the course, their partners are caddies there or age considerations. I again point out that the returned members have received nothing in writing about their standing in the club. That is, they have no written confirmation of their rights - it is all verbal. It was admitted at the court that the current incentives- Reduced Fees, Transfer Fees, Free Carts on Tuesdays, Free Mondays etc.are only upto the end of October, with no mention of what will happen after that. I believe they are playing the waiting game, believing their resolve will outlast the old members.