Suthep vows to 'eradicate Thaksin regime'

[hammered]

What I would like to do is know how Suthep proposes on achieving his end. Does he intend to kill the millions who adore Thaksin or purely remove their votes. Does he think the Democrat party can actually win an election or does he plan to do away with elections?

Doesn't he realise that he and Abhisit are despised by more people than Thaksin? Admittedly a lot of them are the farmers and urban workers that he and his party serially ridicule, but they are also the voters he will need to vote Dem if they are to achieve a majority. What are the Democrat plans to achieve this end or have they thrown in their lot with the fascists who want to abolish one person one vote?

[jayboy]

You couldn't make it up.The usual suspects always spoil their case by going over the top.For example this suggestion that Thaksin's populist policies were in fact initiated by the Democrats only they didn't quite get time to put any of them in place.Also a first for me was the zany idea that Thaksin was responsible for the Asian Crisis.If this level of insanity is to be the usual suspectrs mantra why not go the whole hog and make him responsible for cholera,global warming, junk food,James Blunt and alchopops.It's the same deranged mindset that queries the Thaksinite parties electoral success because it was all down to "vote buying" or that an absolute majority of Thais didn't vote that way.

In this case, ONE poster has suggested ONE Thaksin policy was suggested before Thaksin was in power.

IIRC, this policy was suggested a few years before Thaksin was in power, but it was found to be unaffordable at the time, so wasn't implemented. It seems that they were correct at that time given that it costs more to collect the fee than the fee itself.

And you seem to be suggesting the same thing - viz it was a Democrat policy that after careful investigation was not implemented.Main line usual suspect material I'm afraid.

[whybother]

You couldn't make it up.The usual suspects always spoil their case by going over the top.For example this suggestion that Thaksin's populist policies were in fact initiated by the Democrats only they didn't quite get time to put any of them in place.Also a first for me was the zany idea that Thaksin was responsible for the Asian Crisis.If this level of insanity is to be the usual suspectrs mantra why not go the whole hog and make him responsible for cholera,global warming, junk food,James Blunt and alchopops.It's the same deranged mindset that queries the Thaksinite parties electoral success because it was all down to "vote buying" or that an absolute majority of Thais didn't vote that way.

In this case, ONE poster has suggested ONE Thaksin policy was suggested before Thaksin was in power.

IIRC, this policy was suggested a few years before Thaksin was in power, but it was found to be unaffordable at the time, so wasn't implemented. It seems that they were correct at that time given that it costs more to collect the fee than the fee itself.

And you seem to be suggesting the same thing - viz it was a Democrat policy that after careful investigation was not implemented.Main line usual suspect material I'm afraid.

And you're reading things that aren't there.

I didn't say anything about it being a Democrat policy.

[gerry1011]

I am married to a Thai lady from Isaan and she has little but praise for Thaksin Shinawatra. She accepts that, like Thai politicians of all parties he benefitted from a degree of corruption, but his premiership was hugely beneficial to Thailand economically and he transformed the lives of many of the poor.

Better schools, better roads, better power and water supplies, the 30baht healthcare scheme the list goes on.

He also tackled the drug problem head on and got on top of it

Is Thailand a better country without Thaksin? I for one don't think so. The country now has a terrible drug problem and crime is forever on the increase. The political system is broken. Economically Thailand is struggling because it is so unstable

As a farang I accept that Thaksin had little time for foreigners when in office but why should he? The very fact that we can travel to and live in Thailand shows that we can be self supporting

If Suthep is to be the new face of Thailand then the country might as well go to Hell in a handcart now

To be honest with you, when I first read your ridiculous comment I thought fab4 had changed his name, yet again, hard to keep up with him sometimes.

But getting back to your post, it is just the same old boring copied and pasted drivel we are used to reading from Thaksin fans and trolls alike. A lot of bold claims that can't be backed up or proven, mixed with absolutely crazy statements like "Economically Thailand is struggling because it is so unstable..................................."

Your illustrious hero Thaksin is the sole reason the country is unstable, who do you think has been stirring up all the trouble and bankrolling it ? Do you remember what happened back in 2010 ?

And this classic line - "Is Thailand a better country without Thaksin?"....................Who do you think has been running the country for the last couple of years ? Yingluck ?

Funny how he gets all the credit for "transforming the lives of many of the poor" when all he was doing really was using the peoples' money to buy his way into power so he could rip the same people off. Anyone who looks up to this poor excuse for a human being needs their head read.

Your post is so full of resentment...

I will side with penwithcris... if you don't mind (I am sure you do though )

Not only is his post in line with the perception of most people (outside Bangkok and this forum), but he is also not aggressive at all and not willing to impose his views to any of you. He is just expressing an opinion, without using "names" and without attacking any of you. An opinion which unfortunately you, and others, are not willing to even remotely consider for even a second.

Debate is useless...

Thailand better with, rather than without Thaksin? My answer is also yes, even if this answer is of course opposite to an answer which would please the members of this forum.

Suthep in charge?

Naaaaaaa, Thailand does not deserve such a nightmare !

Sent from my HTC One using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Edited November 17, 2013 by gerry1011

[h90]

I am married to a Thai lady from Isaan and she has little but praise for Thaksin Shinawatra. She accepts that, like Thai politicians of all parties he benefitted from a degree of corruption, but his premiership was hugely beneficial to Thailand economically and he transformed the lives of many of the poor.

Better schools, better roads, better power and water supplies, the 30baht healthcare scheme the list goes on.

He also tackled the drug problem head on and got on top of it

Is Thailand a better country without Thaksin? I for one don't think so. The country now has a terrible drug problem and crime is forever on the increase. The political system is broken. Economically Thailand is struggling because it is so unstable

As a farang I accept that Thaksin had little time for foreigners when in office but why should he? The very fact that we can travel to and live in Thailand shows that we can be self supporting

If Suthep is to be the new face of Thailand then the country might as well go to Hell in a handcart now

Better schools?..... in what way? smaller class sizes, better materials, better teachers, don't think so.

Better roads? ..... certainly more blacktop, that needs constant repair if anything heavier than a bicycle uses it.

Better power?.... more households now have power, that they have to pay for, natural progression for a profit making industry.

Better water? .... more households now have water, that they have to pay for, natural progression for a profit making industry.

30B Health scheme? ... it used to be free.

He also tackled the drug problem head on and got on top of it? ..... by killing hundreds of innocent people, and the problem is still around, much worse than it was from what I see. Only change is the price of street drugs has gone up, I wonder which tight trouser wearing, gun toting clan of untouchable thugs are happy about that.

Thaksin had little time for anything while he was in office, except himself.

The healthcare scheme is actually a project from the Democrats which they had to postpone after Chavalit with Thaksin as deputy crashed the Economic 1997.

You couldn't make it up.The usual suspects always spoil their case by going over the top.For example this suggestion that Thaksin's populist policies were in fact initiated by the Democrats only they didn't quite get time to put any of them in place.Also a first for me was the zany idea that Thaksin was responsible for the Asian Crisis.If this level of insanity is to be the usual suspectrs mantra why not go the whole hog and make him responsible for cholera,global warming, junk food,James Blunt and alchopops.It's the same deranged mindset that queries the Thaksinite parties electoral success because it was all down to "vote buying" or that an absolute majority of Thais didn't vote that way.

Read about the 1997 crises developed in Thailand. Not saying Thaksin did it, but the government with Thaksin.

There are numerous articles about it......

[h90]

What I would like to do is know how Suthep proposes on achieving his end. Does he intend to kill the millions who adore Thaksin or purely remove their votes. Does he think the Democrat party can actually win an election or does he plan to do away with elections?

Doesn't he realise that he and Abhisit are despised by more people than Thaksin? Admittedly a lot of them are the farmers and urban workers that he and his party serially ridicule, but they are also the voters he will need to vote Dem if they are to achieve a majority. What are the Democrat plans to achieve this end or have they thrown in their lot with the fascists who want to abolish one person one vote?

I don't know of anyone who want to abolish one person one vote.

The PAD ideas that people partially vote their MPs instead based on areas based on professions, was just a brainstorm idea, that never got any real support within any group.

It is neither undemocratic nor has it any advantages.

That "the PAD don't want that the poor vote" is pure red propaganda

[hammered]

What I would like to do is know how Suthep proposes on achieving his end. Does he intend to kill the millions who adore Thaksin or purely remove their votes. Does he think the Democrat party can actually win an election or does he plan to do away with elections?

Doesn't he realise that he and Abhisit are despised by more people than Thaksin? Admittedly a lot of them are the farmers and urban workers that he and his party serially ridicule, but they are also the voters he will need to vote Dem if they are to achieve a majority. What are the Democrat plans to achieve this end or have they thrown in their lot with the fascists who want to abolish one person one vote?

I don't know of anyone who want to abolish one person one vote.

The PAD ideas that people partially vote their MPs instead based on areas based on professions, was just a brainstorm idea, that never got any real support within any group.

It is neither undemocratic nor has it any advantages.

That "the PAD don't want that the poor vote" is pure red propaganda

H90 I am honestly interested in how he proposes to achieve it. If he doesnt have a plan, what is he doing.

I would also like to see the Democrats reform and change leadership so that there is actually a viable alternative via electoral democracy, but they really do not seem like they want to do it. Alongkorn has been sidelined into Abhisit (unelectable) controlled committees and party elders

[mikemac]

Your post is so full of resentment...

I will side with penwithcris... if you don't mind (I am sure you do though )

Not only is his post in line with the perception of most people (outside Bangkok and this forum), but he is also not aggressive at all and not willing to impose his views to any of you. He is just expressing an opinion, without using "names" and without attacking any of you. An opinion which unfortunately you, and others, are not willing to even remotely consider for even a second.

Debate is useless...

Thailand better with, rather than without Thaksin? My answer is also yes, even if this answer is of course opposite to an answer which would please the members of this forum.

Suthep in charge?

Naaaaaaa, Thailand does not deserve such a nightmare !

It's fairly obvious who you have sided with, either that or you are just trying to agitate the majority of the TV posters who are quite anti-Thaksin.

But be careful who you do team up with, this forum is crawling with trolls who all seem to side with the redshirts.

My wife's family used to vote for Thaksin because they thought he was on their side, then they woke up to what he stood for, himself and his corrupt family, now they vote for PTP because they are paid in cash to vote for them.

And it seems you are yet another poster who cannot seem to comprehend that just because someone is against PTP it does not make them a Democrat supporter.

Personally, the parking attendants at our condo could probably do a better job of running the country than either of the major parties.

You guys have an overpowering obsession with the Democrats and probably should get some "help" with that.

"Thailand better with, rather than without Thaksin?"................Thailand must be doing ok then, seeing as your crim-in-hiding has been running the government for the last few years.

Edited November 17, 2013 by mikemac

[rijb]

I am married to a Thai lady from Isaan and she has little but praise for Thaksin Shinawatra. She accepts that, like Thai politicians of all parties he benefitted from a degree of corruption, but his premiership was hugely beneficial to Thailand economically and he transformed the lives of many of the poor.

Better schools, better roads, better power and water supplies, the 30baht healthcare scheme the list goes on.

He also tackled the drug problem head on and got on top of it

Is Thailand a better country without Thaksin? I for one don't think so. The country now has a terrible drug problem and crime is forever on the increase. The political system is broken. Economically Thailand is struggling because it is so unstable

As a farang I accept that Thaksin had little time for foreigners when in office but why should he? The very fact that we can travel to and live in Thailand shows that we can be self supporting

If Suthep is to be the new face of Thailand then the country might as well go to Hell in a handcart now

To be honest with you, when I first read your ridiculous comment I thought fab4 had changed his name, yet again, hard to keep up with him sometimes.

But getting back to your post, it is just the same old boring copied and pasted drivel we are used to reading from Thaksin fans and trolls alike. A lot of bold claims that can't be backed up or proven, mixed with absolutely crazy statements like "Economically Thailand is struggling because it is so unstable..................................."

Your illustrious hero Thaksin is the sole reason the country is unstable, who do you think has been stirring up all the trouble and bankrolling it ? Do you remember what happened back in 2010 ?

And this classic line - "Is Thailand a better country without Thaksin?"....................Who do you think has been running the country for the last couple of years ? Yingluck ?

Funny how he gets all the credit for "transforming the lives of many of the poor" when all he was doing really was using the peoples' money to buy his way into power so he could rip the same people off. Anyone who looks up to this poor excuse for a human being needs their head read.

Speaking of 'the same old boring copied and pasted drivel' …

[h90]

What I would like to do is know how Suthep proposes on achieving his end. Does he intend to kill the millions who adore Thaksin or purely remove their votes. Does he think the Democrat party can actually win an election or does he plan to do away with elections?

Doesn't he realise that he and Abhisit are despised by more people than Thaksin? Admittedly a lot of them are the farmers and urban workers that he and his party serially ridicule, but they are also the voters he will need to vote Dem if they are to achieve a majority. What are the Democrat plans to achieve this end or have they thrown in their lot with the fascists who want to abolish one person one vote?

I don't know of anyone who want to abolish one person one vote.

The PAD ideas that people partially vote their MPs instead based on areas based on professions, was just a brainstorm idea, that never got any real support within any group.

It is neither undemocratic nor has it any advantages.

That "the PAD don't want that the poor vote" is pure red propaganda

H90 I am honestly interested in how he proposes to achieve it. If he doesnt have a plan, what is he doing.

I would also like to see the Democrats reform and change leadership so that there is actually a viable alternative via electoral democracy, but they really do not seem like they want to do it. Alongkorn has been sidelined into Abhisit (unelectable) controlled committees and party elders

I as well have a problem seeing a way to achieve it. By blowing the whistles, they can annoy them, but nothing more.

They could try to trigger a coup, but I can't see how. Big strikes would be a way, but I can't see that happen.

At new elections I even believe that Abhisit would have a chance, just because he isn't PTP. But even if that would happen, what than?

PTP would be still strong and can form a coalition.

Even if the Democrats make a coalition, they would be with a couple of parties which don't have a good reputation and surely don't want to improve something.

As well they could always switch sides and let the Democrats feel it.

So I don't see any working peaceful solution. Not even one with a low probability.

[hammered]

What I would like to do is know how Suthep proposes on achieving his end. Does he intend to kill the millions who adore Thaksin or purely remove their votes. Does he think the Democrat party can actually win an election or does he plan to do away with elections?

Doesn't he realise that he and Abhisit are despised by more people than Thaksin? Admittedly a lot of them are the farmers and urban workers that he and his party serially ridicule, but they are also the voters he will need to vote Dem if they are to achieve a majority. What are the Democrat plans to achieve this end or have they thrown in their lot with the fascists who want to abolish one person one vote?

I don't know of anyone who want to abolish one person one vote.

The PAD ideas that people partially vote their MPs instead based on areas based on professions, was just a brainstorm idea, that never got any real support within any group.

It is neither undemocratic nor has it any advantages.

That "the PAD don't want that the poor vote" is pure red propaganda

H90 I am honestly interested in how he proposes to achieve it. If he doesnt have a plan, what is he doing.

I would also like to see the Democrats reform and change leadership so that there is actually a viable alternative via electoral democracy, but they really do not seem like they want to do it. Alongkorn has been sidelined into Abhisit (unelectable) controlled committees and party elders

I as well have a problem seeing a way to achieve it. By blowing the whistles, they can annoy them, but nothing more.

They could try to trigger a coup, but I can't see how. Big strikes would be a way, but I can't see that happen.

At new elections I even believe that Abhisit would have a chance, just because he isn't PTP. But even if that would happen, what than?

PTP would be still strong and can form a coalition.

Even if the Democrats make a coalition, they would be with a couple of parties which don't have a good reputation and surely don't want to improve something.

As well they could always switch sides and let the Democrats feel it.

So I don't see any working peaceful solution. Not even one with a low probability.

I dont understand the rushing of the amnesty. I don't understand what the Dems are playing at. My feeling is that there is something else going on that we don't know about that is making players rush things.

I honestly think you underestimate the baggage that Abhisit carries after 2010. PT will win an election of that I am fairly sure. I am also sure that a Democrat government led by Abhisit would result in truly huge demos. While there is a lot of talk about corruption and Thaksin in BKK, little time if any is devorted to all those killed in 2010 and that creates a lot of anger north of BKK.

If the Dems had ended the rally when the amnesty went down, PT and Reds would have been still fighting. Now they are back together again. That also seems like silliness considering the electoral realities.

That leaves Suthep aiming for some kind of coup either military or judicial but that is like insanity.

Or maybe everyone just got overexcited.

[hammered]

Suthep's boycott plan apparently has not gone down well with business after the reds have said they will release a list of all democrat, yellow etc owned, affiliated and supporting businesses with a call to boycott. This one seems to be going the way of tax withholding and striking

[whybother]

I dont understand the rushing of the amnesty. I don't understand what the Dems are playing at. My feeling is that there is something else going on that we don't know about that is making players rush things.

I honestly think you underestimate the baggage that Abhisit carries after 2010. PT will win an election of that I am fairly sure. I am also sure that a Democrat government led by Abhisit would result in truly huge demos. While there is a lot of talk about corruption and Thaksin in BKK, little time if any is devorted to all those killed in 2010 and that creates a lot of anger north of BKK.

If the Dems had ended the rally when the amnesty went down, PT and Reds would have been still fighting. Now they are back together again. That also seems like silliness considering the electoral realities.

That leaves Suthep aiming for some kind of coup either military or judicial but that is like insanity.

Or maybe everyone just got overexcited.

Do you think anything would change if PTP had to form a coalition government (ie getting less than 50% of seats), as opposed to a coalition of convenience as it is now?

[penwithcris]

I have to assume that the vast majority of posts on ThaiVisa forums are made by individuals whose home countries respect and follow democratic principles and yet, when commentating on Thai politics they appear to be completely blind to the results of the 2011 elections when Pheu Thai took 265 seats and the Democrat party 159

This was despite Abhisit trying to 'buy votes' from poorer Thais by promising to increase the minimum wage to a level that employers felt would be unsustainable.

Pheu Thai didn't become the ruling party because of military or 'other' interventions they did so because a healthy majority of ordinary Thai people wanted them to be in office. That's what democracy is all about and I can never understand how Abhisit of all people cannot accept this. He spent his formative years living in the 'cradle of democracy' the UK and was educated at Oxford University where no debate would have countenanced the denial of democratic rights.

Perhaps it's his devotion to Newcastle United football club that has in some way distorted his view of life. The constant disappointment of his team's failures are now mirrored in his political life.it's a modern day tragedy

For many years growing up in England I could never see the Conservative government being ousted from power but I didn't take to the streets to insist on a change of govermnment but used the BALLOT BOX with the result we had a change of government and that's how it should be in Thailand

Thaksin is just an unwelcome distraction to this democratic process

[Siripon]

Suthep's boycott plan apparently has not gone down well with business after the reds have said they will release a list of all democrat, yellow etc owned, affiliated and supporting businesses with a call to boycott. This one seems to be going the way of tax withholding and striking

Suthep is not targeting the red shirts or Pheua Thai, he's aiming at the Shinawat family.

In fact he's doing both of them a favour, trying to help them escape the dominance of a single family.

But they can't. The Pheua Thai MPs are on the whole a sorry bunch with little talent.

And the red shirts? 2 weeks ago Jatupon was saying the amnesty push would only lead to a dead end, not the end of the soi but within 2 days he had shut up with the rest of the red shirt leaders despite being thrown off a red shirt TV station.

Servants, minions of Thaksin, I wonder how much money is in their bank accounts now?

[whybother]

I have to assume that the vast majority of posts on ThaiVisa forums are made by individuals whose home countries respect and follow democratic principles and yet, when commentating on Thai politics they appear to be completely blind to the results of the 2011 elections when Pheu Thai took 265 seats and the Democrat party 159

This was despite Abhisit trying to 'buy votes' from poorer Thais by promising to increase the minimum wage to a level that employers felt would be unsustainable.

Pheu Thai didn't become the ruling party because of military or 'other' interventions they did so because a healthy majority of ordinary Thai people wanted them to be in office. That's what democracy is all about and I can never understand how Abhisit of all people cannot accept this. He spent his formative years living in the 'cradle of democracy' the UK and was educated at Oxford University where no debate would have countenanced the denial of democratic rights.

Perhaps it's his devotion to Newcastle United football club that has in some way distorted his view of life. The constant disappointment of his team's failures are now mirrored in his political life.it's a modern day tragedy

For many years growing up in England I could never see the Conservative government being ousted from power but I didn't take to the streets to insist on a change of govermnment but used the BALLOT BOX with the result we had a change of government and that's how it should be in Thailand

Thaksin is just an unwelcome distraction to this democratic process

You do realise that PTP promised and delivered a higher minimum wage than the Democrats, don't you?

[Siripon]

I have to assume that the vast majority of posts on ThaiVisa forums are made by individuals whose home countries respect and follow democratic principles and yet, when commentating on Thai politics they appear to be completely blind to the results of the 2011 elections when Pheu Thai took 265 seats and the Democrat party 159

This was despite Abhisit trying to 'buy votes' from poorer Thais by promising to increase the minimum wage to a level that employers felt would be unsustainable.

Pheu Thai didn't become the ruling party because of military or 'other' interventions they did so because a healthy majority of ordinary Thai people wanted them to be in office. That's what democracy is all about and I can never understand how Abhisit of all people cannot accept this. He spent his formative years living in the 'cradle of democracy' the UK and was educated at Oxford University where no debate would have countenanced the denial of democratic rights.

Perhaps it's his devotion to Newcastle United football club that has in some way distorted his view of life. The constant disappointment of his team's failures are now mirrored in his political life.it's a modern day tragedy

For many years growing up in England I could never see the Conservative government being ousted from power but I didn't take to the streets to insist on a change of govermnment but used the BALLOT BOX with the result we had a change of government and that's how it should be in Thailand

Thaksin is just an unwelcome distraction to this democratic process

Does the British government take orders from a convicted criminal facing several other charges?

Do they try to pass a law to absolve all corruption cases over the last 7 years as well as rioting offences?

[fab4]

I don't believe this, you of all people quoting the forum rules to another TV member. Now I have seen everything. Talk about people in glass houses, Cal.

What are you on about? Cal?

[jdinasia]

Occasionally now his critics will raise the drugs war as a means of attacking Thaksin secure in the knowledge there will never be an investigation in to it.The vast majority of his critics were silent when the crimes were being carried out.

No one is too keen on becoming another victim.

I rarely see Jayboy's posts (the ignore option is excellent) but he constantly uses the "the war on drugs was widely popular" argument for human rights abuses. Well, at the time of the removal of Thaksin from his extra constitutional position as on again off again PM ... nobody said or did anything either, That coup was widely popular" Months and months later when the offers of cash started flowing it became unpopular in the NE.

[jayboy]

I have to assume that the vast majority of posts on ThaiVisa forums are made by individuals whose home countries respect and follow democratic principles and yet, when commentating on Thai politics they appear to be completely blind to the results of the 2011 elections when Pheu Thai took 265 seats and the Democrat party 159

This was despite Abhisit trying to 'buy votes' from poorer Thais by promising to increase the minimum wage to a level that employers felt would be unsustainable.

Pheu Thai didn't become the ruling party because of military or 'other' interventions they did so because a healthy majority of ordinary Thai people wanted them to be in office. That's what democracy is all about and I can never understand how Abhisit of all people cannot accept this. He spent his formative years living in the 'cradle of democracy' the UK and was educated at Oxford University where no debate would have countenanced the denial of democratic rights.

Perhaps it's his devotion to Newcastle United football club that has in some way distorted his view of life. The constant disappointment of his team's failures are now mirrored in his political life.it's a modern day tragedy

For many years growing up in England I could never see the Conservative government being ousted from power but I didn't take to the streets to insist on a change of govermnment but used the BALLOT BOX with the result we had a change of government and that's how it should be in Thailand

Thaksin is just an unwelcome distraction to this democratic process

Does the British government take orders from a convicted criminal facing several other charges?

Do they try to pass a law to absolve all corruption cases over the last 7 years as well as rioting offences?

I assume you are referring to Thaksin since Abhisit, though his alleged crimes are much more serious, has not been convicted yet.

We know that Thaksin's convictions would not stand in an independent court of law since they were pressed with political motivation (similar case in the Ukraine).We know that for sure from Wikileaks though it was always obvious the old elites were out to nail him come what may.

Doesn't mean of course he isn't guilty of all or some of the charges.But it would be absurd to suggest they are unusual in Thailand or that someone like Suthep (oh the irony) is much different.

Who is trying to pass a law absolving all corruption cases over the last 7 years ? - first I've heard of it.Rioting offences are different and could sensibly be covered in an amnesty notwithstanding the grotesque difference in treatment between redshirts and the yellow shirt thugs and their quasi fascist leadership.Plenty of examples overseas = S.Africa, N.Ireland etc

The umbrella amnesty proposal was a classic piece of Thaksin stupidity - handing the opposition a hand up from the low place it had fallen.Can the Dems capitalise on this and erode the PTP so that an election win in less than two years is possible? Could do it with intelligent leadership but the performance over the last few days doesn't give much grounds for hope.In their hearts the Dems don't really believe they can win over the Thai people at an election so hope for a coup (the stupid bone headed ones) or a judicial intervention (the less stupid ones).Still even if they manage to diitch Yingluck or ban the PTP, ther's still that pesky problem of winning an election thereafter.Frankly it might be easier all round for the DEms to abandon plotting and licking the army's posterior to concentrate on decent policies and bonding again with the country.Believe it or not that's what I would prefer.

[jaidam]

I assume you are referring to Thaksin since Abhisit, though his alleged crimes are much more serious, has not been convicted yet.

Can you remind us which of Abhisits crimes are worse than mass extra-judicial killings, dividing a nation for power and greed, policy corruption and theft on a never before seen scale? As far as I'm aware Abhisit's "crimes" consist of his taking a holiday in the Maldives during Yingluck's great flood, and having some wrong date on his national service paperwork some 25 years ago(although nobody disputes that he actually did the national service).

[jayboy]

Occasionally now his critics will raise the drugs war as a means of attacking Thaksin secure in the knowledge there will never be an investigation in to it.The vast majority of his critics were silent when the crimes were being carried out.

No one is too keen on becoming another victim.

I rarely see Jayboy's posts (the ignore option is excellent) but he constantly uses the "the war on drugs was widely popular" argument for human rights abuses. Well, at the time of the removal of Thaksin from his extra constitutional position as on again off again PM ... nobody said or did anything either, That coup was widely popular" Months and months later when the offers of cash started flowing it became unpopular in the NE.

I'm assuming you have not thought very carefully about this (my polite and charitable interpretation of your foolish post).If you read my references to the drugs war I have gone out of my way to state it was Thaksin's worst abuse.Its popularity is irrelevant and in any case it cannot absolve him of responsibility and the matter should be dealt with in a court of law.

Whether the coup was popular is debatable even ignoring your lies about "cash flowing".It was certainly broadly welcome in middle class Bangkok.But it doesn't actually matter because it was a criminal act whatever its degree of initial popularity.As we know it didn't take long for the coup makers and the miserable incompetent government of Surayud to become unpopular.Subsequent elections more accurately measured the views of the Thai people.

[jayboy]

I assume you are referring to Thaksin since Abhisit, though his alleged crimes are much more serious, has not been convicted yet.

Can you remind us which of Abhisits crimes are worse than mass extra-judicial killings, dividing a nation for power and greed, policy corruption and theft on a never before seen scale? As far as I'm aware Abhisit's "crimes" consist of his taking a holiday in the Maldives during Yingluck's great flood, and having some wrong date on his national service paperwork some 25 years ago(although nobody disputes that he actually did the national service).

You missed out mass murder charges.

[15Peter20]

Occasionally now his critics will raise the drugs war as a means of attacking Thaksin secure in the knowledge there will never be an investigation in to it.The vast majority of his critics were silent when the crimes were being carried out.

No one is too keen on becoming another victim.

I rarely see Jayboy's posts (the ignore option is excellent) but he constantly uses the "the war on drugs was widely popular" argument for human rights abuses. Well, at the time of the removal of Thaksin from his extra constitutional position as on again off again PM ... nobody said or did anything either, That coup was widely popular" Months and months later when the offers of cash started flowing it became unpopular in the NE.

Maybe you'd like to reassess your angle on the ignore button. Had you known what the rest of Jayboy's post said I'm fairly sure you wouldn't have embarrassed yourself this way.

[h90]

H90 I am honestly interested in how he proposes to achieve it. If he doesnt have a plan, what is he doing.

on achieving his end. Does he intend to kill the millions who adore Thaksin or purely remove their votes. Does he think the Democrat party can actually win an election or does he plan to do away with elections?

Doesn't he realise that he and Abhisit are despised by more people than Thaksin? Admittedly a lot of them are the farmers and urban workers that he and his party serially ridicule, but they are also the voters he will need to vote Dem if they are to achieve a majority. What are the Democrat plans to achieve this end or have they thrown in their lot with the fascists who want to abolish one person one vote?

I don't know of anyone who want to abolish one person one vote.

The PAD ideas that people partially vote their MPs instead based on areas based on professions, was just a brainstorm idea, that never got any real support within any group.

It is neither undemocratic nor has it any advantages.

That "the PAD don't want that the poor vote" is pure red propaganda

I would also like to see the Democrats reform and change leadership so that there is actually a viable alternative via electoral democracy, but they really do not seem like they want to do it. Alongkorn has been sidelined into Abhisit (unelectable) controlled committees and party elders

I as well have a problem seeing a way to achieve it. By blowing the whistles, they can annoy them, but nothing more.

They could try to trigger a coup, but I can't see how. Big strikes would be a way, but I can't see that happen.

At new elections I even believe that Abhisit would have a chance, just because he isn't PTP. But even if that would happen, what than?

PTP would be still strong and can form a coalition.

Even if the Democrats make a coalition, they would be with a couple of parties which don't have a good reputation and surely don't want to improve something.

As well they could always switch sides and let the Democrats feel it.

So I don't see any working peaceful solution. Not even one with a low probability.

I dont understand the rushing of the amnesty. I don't understand what the Dems are playing at. My feeling is that there is something else going on that we don't know about that is making players rush things.

I honestly think you underestimate the baggage that Abhisit carries after 2010. PT will win an election of that I am fairly sure. I am also sure that a Democrat government led by Abhisit would result in truly huge demos. While there is a lot of talk about corruption and Thaksin in BKK, little time if any is devorted to all those killed in 2010 and that creates a lot of anger north of BKK.

If the Dems had ended the rally when the amnesty went down, PT and Reds would have been still fighting. Now they are back together again. That also seems like silliness considering the electoral realities.

That leaves Suthep aiming for some kind of coup either military or judicial but that is like insanity.

Or maybe everyone just got overexcited.

Why rush the amnesty...I don't know. Actually they talk a long time about it and they might thought with temple issue it would be a good moment? But I don't know.

I can't gauge what the people in the north think about Abhsit and if they would come for demos. The last red shirt demos were basically nothing.

I doubt that PTP and Reds were ever fighting. I think it was just a show for the low level reds. I heard from reds that are frustrated and from who even switched side. But I can't tell if that are just a handful or more.

Wife told me that Suthep is a lot more "friendly" to the reds and never calls the buffalo like the PAD did, because there are some (a few, or many???) former reds in the mob.

The byelections in Bangkok a while ago looked good for the Democrats, specially as these were red areas.

[h90]

I have to assume that the vast majority of posts on ThaiVisa forums are made by individuals whose home countries respect and follow democratic principles and yet, when commentating on Thai politics they appear to be completely blind to the results of the 2011 elections when Pheu Thai took 265 seats and the Democrat party 159

This was despite Abhisit trying to 'buy votes' from poorer Thais by promising to increase the minimum wage to a level that employers felt would be unsustainable.

Pheu Thai didn't become the ruling party because of military or 'other' interventions they did so because a healthy majority of ordinary Thai people wanted them to be in office. That's what democracy is all about and I can never understand how Abhisit of all people cannot accept this. He spent his formative years living in the 'cradle of democracy' the UK and was educated at Oxford University where no debate would have countenanced the denial of democratic rights.

Perhaps it's his devotion to Newcastle United football club that has in some way distorted his view of life. The constant disappointment of his team's failures are now mirrored in his political life.it's a modern day tragedy

For many years growing up in England I could never see the Conservative government being ousted from power but I didn't take to the streets to insist on a change of govermnment but used the BALLOT BOX with the result we had a change of government and that's how it should be in Thailand

Thaksin is just an unwelcome distraction to this democratic process

Hitler also won elections, and if anyone would have oust him or a coup would have been successful it would have saved a lot lives.

The election is only a part of democracy. It is not that being elected allows you to do just everything.

As long as I know the Conservative government also never made a law to amnesty own crimes or corruption.

[Emptyset]

Occasionally now his critics will raise the drugs war as a means of attacking Thaksin secure in the knowledge there will never be an investigation in to it.The vast majority of his critics were silent when the crimes were being carried out.

No one is too keen on becoming another victim.

I rarely see Jayboy's posts (the ignore option is excellent) but he constantly uses the "the war on drugs was widely popular" argument for human rights abuses. Well, at the time of the removal of Thaksin from his extra constitutional position as on again off again PM ... nobody said or did anything either, That coup was widely popular" Months and months later when the offers of cash started flowing it became unpopular in the NE.

This 'coup was widely popular' business is just an unprovable mytheme now taken to be fact isn't it? It might have looked like it was popular from certain areas in Bangkok, but that doesn't mean it was in reality. The Thai media were hardly going to go and find out what rural people thought about it in the days after the coup, were they? There were small protests in Bangkok during the days after the coup, despite the fact that groups of more than five people were banned. But such was the censorship and fear in the air, it's not surprising that there wasn't mass resistance.

At one of the protests, a student was grabbed by a policeman, a gun pushed into her stomach. Jai Ungpakorn commented at the time: "I'm scared. I don't want to be dragged off to prison. I'd rather not be doing this". Sombat started an anti-coup website that was taken offline the day after they started it. "They (the coup leaders) are censoring people's opinions and only one side - their side - is being presented", he said. Then there was Ajarn Nidhi's tearing up of the interim constitution at CM University. Not to mention poor old Uncle Nuamthong.

That there were only small acts of resistance possible though, doesn't mean that rural people weren't angry. It's just that no one bothered to ask them, other than some from the international press:

"Lek Tongdee says he has pulled more weeds from his bean and chilli plots in the two days since the Thai military seized power in a bloodless coup than in the previous four weeks. "I'm sad, angry and frustrated but I can't do anything about it so I'm taking it out on these weeds," the barefoot tenant farmer told the Guardian while shaking a fistful of scraggy plants.

"Thaksin [shinawatra] was a good prime minister. He worked hard to improve the welfare of the little people like me. I voted for him without anyone paying me any money to do so and look what has happened. The army is in control."

Opinions like Mr Lek's are commonplace not just in Sampratuan, a village in Nakhom Pathon province, about 30 miles west of Bangkok, but across most of Thailand's rural heartland."

[thaicbr]

 

 

 

 

Occasionally now his critics will raise the drugs war as a means of attacking Thaksin secure in the knowledge there will never be an investigation in to it.The vast majority of his critics were silent when the crimes were being carried out.

 

 

No one is too keen on becoming another victim.

 

I rarely see Jayboy's posts (the ignore option is excellent) but he constantly uses the "the war on drugs was widely popular" argument for human rights abuses. Well, at the time of the removal of Thaksin from his extra constitutional position as on again off again PM ... nobody said or did anything either, That coup was widely popular"  Months and months later when the offers of cash started flowing it became unpopular in the NE.

 

 

This 'coup was widely popular' business is just an unprovable mytheme now taken to be fact isn't it? It might have looked like it was popular from certain areas in Bangkok, but that doesn't mean it was in reality. The Thai media were hardly going to go and find out what rural people thought about it in the days after the coup, were they? There were small protests in Bangkok during the days after the coup, despite the fact that groups of more than five people were banned. But such was the censorship and fear in the air, it's not surprising that there wasn't mass resistance.

At one of the protests, a student was grabbed by a policeman, a gun pushed into her stomach. Jai Ungpakorn commented at the time: "I'm scared. I don't want to be dragged off to prison. I'd rather not be doing this". Sombat started an anti-coup website that was taken offline the day after they started it. "They (the coup leaders) are censoring people's opinions and only one side - their side - is being presented", he said. Then there was Ajarn Nidhi's tearing up of the interim constitution at CM University. Not to mention poor old Uncle Nuamthong.

That there were only small acts of resistance possible though, doesn't mean that rural people weren't angry. It's just that no one bothered to ask them, other than some from the international press:

"Lek Tongdee says he has pulled more weeds from his bean and chilli plots in the two days since the Thai military seized power in a bloodless coup than in the previous four weeks. "I'm sad, angry and frustrated but I can't do anything about it so I'm taking it out on these weeds," the barefoot tenant farmer told the Guardian while shaking a fistful of scraggy plants.

 

"Thaksin [shinawatra] was a good prime minister. He worked hard to improve the welfare of the little people like me. I voted for him without anyone paying me any money to do so and look what has happened. The army is in control."

Opinions like Mr Lek's are commonplace not just in Sampratuan, a village in Nakhom Pathon province, about 30 miles west of Bangkok, but across most of Thailand's rural heartland."

 

Nakhon Pathom is a PTP stronghold. Has been for a long time.

Was in the news reference dodgy car imports. But happily the son of the MP had all the papers. The fact that the tax disc was brand new never been fitted didn't ring any bells for the journalist present .

Oh the father was Deputy Minister of Transport

Sent from my phone with the app thingy.

[Sunderland]

So, Suthep just announced that 24 November is the new final battle ... everyone in the world has to meet at Rajadamnoen. I guess they are running out of time before the King's birthday. One final push.

Meanwhile, Loy Krathong was not forgotten with a delightful krathong at the front of the stage featuring photos of Thaksin, Yingluck and burning buildings.

[gerry1011]

 

 

What I would like to do is know how Suthep proposes on achieving his end. Does he intend to kill the millions who adore Thaksin or purely remove their votes. Does he think the Democrat party can actually win an election or does he plan to do away with elections?

 

Doesn't he realise that he and Abhisit are despised by more people than Thaksin? Admittedly a lot of them are the farmers and urban workers that he and his party serially ridicule, but they are also the voters he will need to vote Dem if they are to achieve a majority. What are the Democrat plans to achieve this end or have they thrown in their lot with the fascists who want to abolish one person one vote?

 

I don't know of anyone who want to abolish one person one vote.

The PAD ideas that people partially vote their MPs instead based on areas based on professions, was just a brainstorm idea, that never got any real support within any group.

It is neither undemocratic nor has it any advantages.

 

That "the PAD don't want that the poor vote" is pure red propaganda

 

H90 I am honestly interested in how he proposes to achieve it. If he doesnt have a plan, what is he doing.

 

I would also like to see the Democrats reform and change leadership so that there is actually a viable alternative via electoral democracy, but they really do not seem like they want to do it. Alongkorn has been sidelined into Abhisit (unelectable) controlled committees and party elders

 

 

I as well have a problem seeing a way to achieve it. By blowing the whistles, they can annoy them, but nothing more.

They could try to trigger a coup, but I can't see how. Big strikes would be a way, but I can't see that happen.

 

At new elections I even believe that Abhisit would have a chance, just because he isn't PTP. But even if that would happen, what than?

PTP would be still strong and can form a coalition.

Even if the Democrats make a coalition, they would be with a couple of parties which don't have a good reputation and surely don't want to improve something.

As well they could always switch sides and let the Democrats feel it.

 

So I don't see any working peaceful solution. Not even one with a low probability.

 

An idea would be to form a coalition government with the Dems and PT.

Both the Dems and the PT would sit together to propose a program for the next term. The PM would come from the party which got the most votes.

Other countries are governed by such a coalition of opposed camps (left and right governing together, for example) and it works too.

PT has been extending its hands towards their opponents several times already, but always received negative answers from the Dems.

The Dems will not make any compromise. They just want everything to be done their way.

Sent from my HTC One using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app