Move for non-elected premier a step backwards: Thai editorial

[pookiki]

When one side is unwilling to accept any compromise [suthep in this instance], how can there be a negotiated settlement? Suthep says he is fighting against the 'tyranny of the majority'. His only solution is to replace it with the 'tyranny of the minority'.

Well I know that Suthep is out to completely destroy the tyranny of the Shinawatra clan bit I do not understand your reference to the tyranny of the majority when 52% (that is a majority) did not want this government.

Can you enlighten us please.

Now those are just the figures of the people who voted. We all know that if the Yellow shirts had not voted it would be a lot wider spread. but they didn't so let you and me stick to the ones that did. We won't even wonder how many voted for one party with the expectation of getting another leader.

The issue of the popular vote that PTP received (48%) has been referenced numerous times on this forum but ignores the manner in which representation in Parliament is prescribed in the Constitution which gave the PTP an outright majority. In addition, if you add the votes received of the PTP coalition partners, it would equal more than 50%. As I have said in the past, how people 'would' have voted that didn't vote is speculation and conjecture. Hardly a basis for an argument. And the fact remains that the Democrats only received 35% of the vote, a party with whom Suthep belonged until recently. If the 35% of the people represented by Democrats telling the remaining 65% of the people isn't a 'tyranny of the minority', not sure how else to enlighten you.

[Thai at Heart]

Well being on the party list and then rubber stamped by majority is hardly elected anyway.

At least in the uk, a prime minister needs and electoral seat and still.has constituents.

[pisico]

After this Suthep will take the corruption seriously (I personally believe). You may call me naive.

Do you know about Suthep's corruption two decades ago....naive...555555...

Naive, ill informed and blind. The hallmark of a committed anti-thaksinista.

Thaksin and Suthep, same, same.

But, to a toe-tag Democrat, facts and history are irrelevant. It is what they feel what matters.

Why Suthep had to resign as Minister of Agriculture? He would have been indicted for corruption and malfeasance.

Now this chap says Suthep will address corruption seriously? 55555 plus 1

[punisher]

When one side is unwilling to accept any compromise [suthep in this instance], how can there be a negotiated settlement? Suthep says he is fighting against the 'tyranny of the majority'. His only solution is to replace it with the 'tyranny of the minority'.

Well I know that Suthep is out to completely destroy the tyranny of the Shinawatra clan bit I do not understand your reference to the tyranny of the majority when 52% (that is a majority) did not want this government.

Can you enlighten us please.

Now those are just the figures of the people who voted. We all know that if the Yellow shirts had not voted it would be a lot wider spread. but they didn't so let you and me stick to the ones that did. We won't even wonder how many voted for one party with the expectation of getting another leader.

The issue of the popular vote that PTP received (48%) has been referenced numerous times on this forum but ignores the manner in which representation in Parliament is prescribed in the Constitution which gave the PTP an outright majority. In addition, if you add the votes received of the PTP coalition partners, it would equal more than 50%. As I have said in the past, how people 'would' have voted that didn't vote is speculation and conjecture. Hardly a basis for an argument. And the fact remains that the Democrats only received 35% of the vote, a party with whom Suthep belonged until recently. If the 35% of the people represented by Democrats telling the remaining 65% of the people isn't a 'tyranny of the minority', not sure how else to enlighten you.

Great then I wonder about a country called USA 250million people live there,2008 elections 56% went to vote .......................,u can turn it as u want,democrats did not win an election for 20yrs,and most thais want PTP,they don't want a suthep,abisit or any other democrat government.It's their decision,and if a minority don't like it,then wait till next election,and if the democratic party can't win any election,then there is maybe something wrong with their party program or with the person they choose to be party leader.

it's not that difficult

[spirit47]

Sometimes its better to go a step backwards. Suthep and the Dems just stop a real dangerous undermining of the Constitution. Thats what make it possible for people like Hitler to take the full power. And thats the point, I say, this party including their partners dont want democracy, their goal is dictatorship with Taksin on the top.

The Constitution Court failed to stop them, the police is corrupt, all Institutions in this land are corrupt, its not possible to go foreward in politics, with them, and its a ecological disaster.

Well then! Let's clean the chance to have a dictatorship with Thaksin, with a farced People's Council (it's a dictatorship) signed Suthep.

Wonderful progress.

Peoples Council is for a few months, Shin-Cooperation maybe for ever. Hope you understand, Newcomer71...

[punisher]

Sometimes its better to go a step backwards. Suthep and the Dems just stop a real dangerous undermining of the Constitution. Thats what make it possible for people like Hitler to take the full power. And thats the point, I say, this party including their partners dont want democracy, their goal is dictatorship with Taksin on the top.

The Constitution Court failed to stop them, the police is corrupt, all Institutions in this land are corrupt, its not possible to go foreward in politics, with them, and its a ecological disaster.

Well then! Let's clean the chance to have a dictatorship with Thaksin, with a farced People's Council (it's a dictatorship) signed Suthep.

Wonderful progress.

Peoples Council is for a few months, Shin-Cooperation maybe for ever. Hope you understand, Newcomer71...

Yeah if your home country is north korea then i have an understanding why u need Sutheps people's council,and not an elected government

[Asiantravel]

I am sick of the pro-TS here keep only pointing at Suthep. What if today the person is not Suthep who want to overthrow the TS regime? What if he is only a Thai common citizen? What have you got to say?? After questions about the corruptions, problems and responsibilties,trying to above the law. Doesn't YL as the elected PM has any role to play?? SHe need not give any answer??? Dodging here and there. She HERSELF should have feel bloody shamed and volunteer to quit her PM position.

Some people may say whoever in-charge ,corruption is still around.

No change, means thing is done. Forever in TS regime, corrupted, citizens having hard life.

Try to change, may have chances to have a new corrupted free nation. It is very hard but slowly start better than no start.

I personally believe after this time protest, Suthep himself will aware that power is still belong to the Thai people and they will unite and come out together to kick your ass out if you are doing harm to their country and their beloved Supreme leader (i do not mean Suthep). Suthep is not a dumbass either. He will not want to become same like TS, hated by so many own Thai fellow people. After this Suthep will take the corruption seriously (I personally believe). You may call me naive.

NO change, everything same same

Try change, may have something no same.

Why not give a change?

Cheers~

" Suthep himself will aware that power is still belong to the Thai people and they will unite and come out together to kick your ass out if you are doing harm to their country "

We may get an indication if you are correct or not because Suthep is going ahead with the formation of a People's Council anyway. Let's just see the background of some of the people he is proposing and how they will represent those in the North and North East

[newcomer71]

Sometimes its better to go a step backwards. Suthep and the Dems just stop a real dangerous undermining of the Constitution. Thats what make it possible for people like Hitler to take the full power. And thats the point, I say, this party including their partners dont want democracy, their goal is dictatorship with Taksin on the top.

The Constitution Court failed to stop them, the police is corrupt, all Institutions in this land are corrupt, its not possible to go foreward in politics, with them, and its a ecological disaster.

Well then! Let's clean the chance to have a dictatorship with Thaksin, with a farced People's Council (it's a dictatorship) signed Suthep.

Wonderful progress.

Peoples Council is for a few months, Shin-Cooperation maybe for ever. Hope you understand, Newcomer71...

I don't feel so sure about it... every hint points right on the opposite direction.

I hope and wish I'm wrong. I hope even more in a different solution.

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[sjaak327]

When one side is unwilling to accept any compromise [suthep in this instance], how can there be a negotiated settlement? Suthep says he is fighting against the 'tyranny of the majority'. His only solution is to replace it with the 'tyranny of the minority'.

Well I know that Suthep is out to completely destroy the tyranny of the Shinawatra clan bit I do not understand your reference to the tyranny of the majority when 52% (that is a majority) did not want this government.

Can you enlighten us please.

Now those are just the figures of the people who voted. We all know that if the Yellow shirts had not voted it would be a lot wider spread. but they didn't so let you and me stick to the ones that did. We won't even wonder how many voted for one party with the expectation of getting another leader.

The issue of the popular vote that PTP received (48%) has been referenced numerous times on this forum but ignores the manner in which representation in Parliament is prescribed in the Constitution which gave the PTP an outright majority. In addition, if you add the votes received of the PTP coalition partners, it would equal more than 50%. As I have said in the past, how people 'would' have voted that didn't vote is speculation and conjecture. Hardly a basis for an argument. And the fact remains that the Democrats only received 35% of the vote, a party with whom Suthep belonged until recently. If the 35% of the people represented by Democrats telling the remaining 65% of the people isn't a 'tyranny of the minority', not sure how else to enlighten you.

Watch it Pookiki, you bring logic into the discussion.

The one you responded to has no idea about how elections work. First he claims 52% of Thai voters did not want this government, when in fact the government actually received more than 53% of the votes in both constituency AND party list votes. Of course he conveniently leaves out the 4 coalition partners, and then assumes that because PT "only" received 48% of votes, 52% of the votes would be against this government, classic case of ignorance.

The fact of the matter is, a party receiving 48% and 44% of the votes on both counts, should be considered by far the most popular party in a multi party democracy, in fact in most democracies, the biggest party hardly ever receives such a high % of the votes. The distance between PT and the democrats is staggering.

[Robby nz]

Do you know about Suthep's corruption two decades ago....naive...555555...

No I don't chung perhaps you, as someone who obviously knows the truth, not the red truth I hope could enlighten me.

If you are talking about the land titles that were given out than thats been well covered on this forum and there was no corruption involved.

So please carry on.

[philw]

Do you know about Suthep's corruption two decades ago....naive...555555...

No I don't chung perhaps you, as someone who obviously knows the truth, not the red truth I hope could enlighten me.

If you are talking about the land titles that were given out than thats been well covered on this forum and there was no corruption involved.

So please carry on.

Really ?

[billd766]

After this Suthep will take the corruption seriously (I personally believe). You may call me naive.

Do you know about Suthep's corruption two decades ago....naive...555555...

Do YOU know about Thaksin's corruption for the last 20 years also? Not 20 years ago but the LAST 20 years.

[Siripon]

When one side is unwilling to accept any compromise [suthep in this instance], how can there be a negotiated settlement? Suthep says he is fighting against the 'tyranny of the majority'. His only solution is to replace it with the 'tyranny of the minority'.

Well I know that Suthep is out to completely destroy the tyranny of the Shinawatra clan bit I do not understand your reference to the tyranny of the majority when 52% (that is a majority) did not want this government.

Can you enlighten us please.

Now those are just the figures of the people who voted. We all know that if the Yellow shirts had not voted it would be a lot wider spread. but they didn't so let you and me stick to the ones that did. We won't even wonder how many voted for one party with the expectation of getting another leader.

The issue of the popular vote that PTP received (48%) has been referenced numerous times on this forum but ignores the manner in which representation in Parliament is prescribed in the Constitution which gave the PTP an outright majority. In addition, if you add the votes received of the PTP coalition partners, it would equal more than 50%. As I have said in the past, how people 'would' have voted that didn't vote is speculation and conjecture. Hardly a basis for an argument. And the fact remains that the Democrats only received 35% of the vote, a party with whom Suthep belonged until recently. If the 35% of the people represented by Democrats telling the remaining 65% of the people isn't a 'tyranny of the minority', not sure how else to enlighten you.

Watch it Pookiki, you bring logic into the discussion.

The one you responded to has no idea about how elections work. First he claims 52% of Thai voters did not want this government, when in fact the government actually received more than 53% of the votes in both constituency AND party list votes. Of course he conveniently leaves out the 4 coalition partners, and then assumes that because PT "only" received 48% of votes, 52% of the votes would be against this government, classic case of ignorance.

The fact of the matter is, a party receiving 48% and 44% of the votes on both counts, should be considered by far the most popular party in a multi party democracy, in fact in most democracies, the biggest party hardly ever receives such a high % of the votes. The distance between PT and the democrats is staggering.

In the last election Pheua Thai got over 15 million votes whilst the Democrats received over 11 million.

And things have changed a lot in the last 2 years, not for the better as far as election results have shown for Pheua Thai.

[paully]

"Protesters' push for "perfect democracy" is actually pulling the country back to bad old days of dictatorship"

The problem is, dear Nation, that the country is, effectively, already an elective dictatorship under Thaksin and his family plus selected cronies. A new election by itself will not, of course, solve this.

[billd766]

When one side is unwilling to accept any compromise [suthep in this instance], how can there be a negotiated settlement? Suthep says he is fighting against the 'tyranny of the majority'. His only solution is to replace it with the 'tyranny of the minority'.

Well I know that Suthep is out to completely destroy the tyranny of the Shinawatra clan bit I do not understand your reference to the tyranny of the majority when 52% (that is a majority) did not want this government.

Can you enlighten us please.

Now those are just the figures of the people who voted. We all know that if the Yellow shirts had not voted it would be a lot wider spread. but they didn't so let you and me stick to the ones that did. We won't even wonder how many voted for one party with the expectation of getting another leader.

The issue of the popular vote that PTP received (48%) has been referenced numerous times on this forum but ignores the manner in which representation in Parliament is prescribed in the Constitution which gave the PTP an outright majority. In addition, if you add the votes received of the PTP coalition partners, it would equal more than 50%. As I have said in the past, how people 'would' have voted that didn't vote is speculation and conjecture. Hardly a basis for an argument. And the fact remains that the Democrats only received 35% of the vote, a party with whom Suthep belonged until recently. If the 35% of the people represented by Democrats telling the remaining 65% of the people isn't a 'tyranny of the minority', not sure how else to enlighten you.

Watch it Pookiki, you bring logic into the discussion.

The one you responded to has no idea about how elections work. First he claims 52% of Thai voters did not want this government, when in fact the government actually received more than 53% of the votes in both constituency AND party list votes. Of course he conveniently leaves out the 4 coalition partners, and then assumes that because PT "only" received 48% of votes, 52% of the votes would be against this government, classic case of ignorance.

The fact of the matter is, a party receiving 48% and 44% of the votes on both counts, should be considered by far the most popular party in a multi party democracy, in fact in most democracies, the biggest party hardly ever receives such a high % of the votes. The distance between PT and the democrats is staggering.

The coalition partners will go with who pays the most. They have NO allegiance to any one other than themselves and how much they can get out of an alliance. In short, with apololgies to the ladies of the night, they are political whores. Your friend at this election, perhaps not at the next.

They in reality cannot win anything and are the dross which hangs around looking for crumbs that fall. They are bought and sold on the market.

[billd766]

Do you know about Suthep's corruption two decades ago....naive...555555...

No I don't chung perhaps you, as someone who obviously knows the truth, not the red truth I hope could enlighten me.

If you are talking about the land titles that were given out than thats been well covered on this forum and there was no corruption involved.

So please carry on.

Really ?

Really.

[sjaak327]

The coalition partners will go with who pays the most. They have NO allegiance to any one other than themselves and how much they can get out of an alliance. In short, with apololgies to the ladies of the night, they are political whores. Your friend at this election, perhaps not at the next.

They in reality cannot win anything and are the dross which hangs around looking for crumbs that fall. They are bought and sold on the market.

Sure, that doesn't change the fact that they need to be included into the government's mandate. People claiming the government only has 48% of the votes are wrong, they in fact had 53% of the vote, and 60% of seats in the lower house. That they are political whores isn't relevant. One would think their backers might take this knowledge into account the next time they have a chance to vote.

[ourmanflint]

Does anyone have any better ideas to rid the country of its deeply ingrained corruption? If elections carry on as before, if government carries on as before, there will never be an end to it. Seems to me his ideas have merit in that the only way to reset the political landscape, is to have some sort of recess of the status quo. In other countries we could be more confident that elections would reflect the will of the populus, but this is not going to happen in Thailand is it? Seems Suthep wants root and branch reform of the whole system from government down to civil servants & the police, and his plan for this is have a "peoples council" an interim non political form of government that he thinks would be able to achieve this.

I can admire his optimism, but I doubt it would be a feasible solution as the time needed for reforms would be far longer than anyone would really be happy with, and would to some seem to some like a dictatorship of sorts, though personally that seems too strong a term IMO. The alternative and what most of the western world has done is too change things incrementally through successive governments, again this, when looking back over the past 20 years seems unlikely to happen here.

Interesting times are ahead for sure.

[fab4]

"Protesters' push for "perfect democracy" is actually pulling the country back to bad old days of dictatorship"

The problem is, dear Nation, that the country is, effectively, already an elective dictatorship under Thaksin and his family plus selected cronies. A new election by itself will not, of course, solve this.

There are elections for dictatorships now, are there? You get some twaddle on here at times.

[paully]

^ Do try to read all the post, not just the word 'dictatorship', dear boy.

Edited December 10, 2013 by paully

[Siripon]

"Protesters' push for "perfect democracy" is actually pulling the country back to bad old days of dictatorship"

The problem is, dear Nation, that the country is, effectively, already an elective dictatorship under Thaksin and his family plus selected cronies. A new election by itself will not, of course, solve this.

There are elections for dictatorships now, are there? You get some twaddle on here at times.

Fab 4- no one in Pheua Thai has any voice- Thaksin demanded an unsigned letter of resignation from every Pheua Thai prospective MP before they were even allowed to stand for election.

He calls his sister, the ex- PM, his clone.

He is a dictator by nature and deed.

But day by day his aura and power are crumbling.

[jayboy]

In the last election Pheua Thai got over 15 million votes whilst the Democrats received over 11 million.

And things have changed a lot in the last 2 years, not for the better as far as election results have shown for Pheua Thai.

Then there is no need for the Democrats to behave like frightened little rabbits at the prospect of an election in February.

[englishoak]

Does anyone have any better ideas to rid the country of its deeply ingrained corruption?

Sure 0 tolerance, everyone talks about asia being inherently corrupt and unworkable any other way. This is BS... just have to look at Singapore or Japan to see corruption does not have to be rampant...

What it takes is integrity, persistence and patience. unfortunately none of these 3 exist in Thailands upper echelons meaning the judicial system is corrupt and whimsical, the politicians are totally corrupt and insincere, the police are corrupt and unwilling to enforce warrants handed down by judges and the elite have a misconception that they are somehow better because of having more of something stupid such as money...or come from a certain womb...

Even its claim of being a Buddhist nation Thailand spits in the face of actual Buddhist teachings and just about everything the Buddha taught is totally ignored by supposedly better people than the poor.... yet they wai and pretend to show respect....

Hypocrisy is everywhere here, the people in general I love, The country as a functioning one sux big time and as rights or respect the only thing that really counts here is money.

Look at the idiots here even on TV waving silly colours at each other and pandering around words like democracy and freedom ? ... pathetic hypocrites

in short ourmanflint there will be no change, no one cares enough from the heart all the talk is just that .. talk. the actions speak of full wallets for the few not a better place for everyone.

[Siripon]

In the last election Pheua Thai got over 15 million votes whilst the Democrats received over 11 million.

And things have changed a lot in the last 2 years, not for the better as far as election results have shown for Pheua Thai.

Then there is no need for the Democrats to behave like frightened little rabbits at the prospect of an election in February.

They're not, according to the spokesman they're not even thinking about the election yet.

[bkkgooner]

Delighted to see a paper like The Nation considering its historical bias is now being critical of Suthep as the People's Council is a fascist joke.

Democrats actually have a genuine chance in the election next year considering the amount of ammo at their disposal but they need to seize the moment and embrace the democratic system

[sjaak327]

In the last election Pheua Thai got over 15 million votes whilst the Democrats received over 11 million.

And things have changed a lot in the last 2 years, not for the better as far as election results have shown for Pheua Thai.

Then there is no need for the Democrats to behave like frightened little rabbits at the prospect of an election in February.

They're not, according to the spokesman they're not even thinking about the election yet.

Yeah right. Probably because they will boycott it, as is the usual practice when they want the military to intervene....

[DogNo1]

Suthep's reasoning seems similar to the tortured Marxist/Leninist reasoning that the dictatorship of "the vanguard of the proletariat" must seize control of the government of a country and run it until "perfect communism" emerges. We all know how this has worked out for various countries over the past 100 years. To say that this is not democractic is a gross understatement. Ironically, countries that put this into practice invariably call themselves Democratic Republics of XXXXX.

Edited December 10, 2013 by DogNo1