Myanmar to introduce permanent residence system for foreigners

[JUDAS]

I'll stick with Thailand. The grass is not always greener.........

[samran]

I think most of you might be quite shocked at the cost of living in YGN as an expat.

It's very expensive.

....shhhh....let the moaners go over there and find out themselves...

Then I'd have to listen to them complaining about it at my local. I'd sooner warn them off first!

Seriously though, it's cheaper for me to commute regularly from BKK, rather than living there. I'm quite happy it's that way too!

kind of what I do...

[samran]

It never ceases to amaze me that a country such as Thailand, which is so heavily dependent on tourism, makes it so difficult to obtain anything but a straightforward 30 day tourist visa ! My guess is that Myanmar will look at the Thai process, and make theirs more attractive. They have, for example, already actively embarked on a hotel building scheme, which they say will cater for demand by the end of 2016.

you've never applied for a Myanmar visa have you?

And, for those who qualify, getting anything more than a 30 day visa isn't hard.

But I guess you don't qualify, hence the whinge.

[norrona]

Have a word with yourselves you lot.... Thailand only want you to turn up, spunk all your money then leave, do you think Myanmar will be any different?

As long as you all know you are tolerated whilst spending your cash only then required to leave till you can come back and spend more then you'll be alright

[tezzainoz]

yes, all the predictable moans about 'how hard thailand is'.

Myanmar, while holding alot of promise, is 'going to do' a lot of things. Don't hold your breath.

Also remember, this is a country which doesn't recognise the residency and citizenship rights of the Rohingya peoples who have been there generations. You reckon a country like this is going to hand out PR like candy floss to a bunch of dross who can't even qualify for a non-immigrant visa to Thailand?

You're dreaming if you are.

The Rohingya people do not have money to spend on get residency

Thailands neighbours are looking at taking thailands money source so will make it easier

[simon43]

I think most of you might be quite shocked at the cost of living in YGN as an expat.

It's very expensive.

Hmm, I worked there 2012-2013.

Condo cost 4,500 baht/month.

Breakfast, lunch, evening meal and beer was less than 200 baht/day...

'Company' for a whole night was under 900 baht

Perhaps my lifestyle is different to others?

Simon

[Lobstered]

I think most of you might be quite shocked at the cost of living in YGN as an expat.

It's very expensive.

Hmm, I worked there 2012-2013.

Condo cost 4,500 baht/month.

Breakfast, lunch, evening meal and beer was less than 200 baht/day...

'Company' for a whole night was under 900 baht

Perhaps my lifestyle is different to others?

Simon

Prices of accommodation in particular have gone through the roof in Yangon in the last couple of years. A 2 bedroom condo in a reasonable location is going for the equivalent of BHT 45,000 plus a month.

[EBlair48]

As long as Thailand has its infamous institutionalized prostitution and has no problem selling off its attractively impoverished citizenry in marriage to the sexually destitute, foreigners will put up with all manner of absurd, xenophobic immigration rules- been doing it for decades.

Residency is not as important as 'reasons to reside'.

So... any good bars there?

There are a lot of Burmese who have worked in many industries within Thailand, including bars.

I am sure once tourists flock there there will be, do not be surprised to find many Thai ladies (daughters of unpaid rice farmers) flocking across the boarder to work too.

A yes. More poverty stricken women to exploit The Burmese won't put up with them. They don't want their beautiful country fckd up with beer swilling mongers.

[deepcell]

It is all good news, better than nothing. If you get in trouble with your visa in Thailand, at least Burma is one more option (closer) to get there.

I prefer Burma than Camboja! I prefer mountains of Burma than rice fields of Laos!

[deepcell]

I think most of you might be quite shocked at the cost of living in YGN as an expat.

It's very expensive.

Hmm, I worked there 2012-2013.

Condo cost 4,500 baht/month.

Breakfast, lunch, evening meal and beer was less than 200 baht/day...

'Company' for a whole night was under 900 baht

Perhaps my lifestyle is different to others?

Simon

Prices of accommodation in particular have gone through the roof in Yangon in the last couple of years. A 2 bedroom condo in a reasonable location is going for the equivalent of BHT 45,000 plus a month.

It is all about speculations you do not need to live in Yangoon, you have options, what make the difference if you live there in the hassle? Are you going to work there? The true beautiful of Burma is in the country side place like - Bago, the wonderfuls of Mandalay, Mawlamyang, Patheyn, Piay, and so on.. not speaking about the Bagan (it is just amazing and peacifull place on earth).

The same idea, you goign to live in crazy bang cock or thai country-side. Always have option, good options.

[Woodsie888]

I think most of you might be quite shocked at the cost of living in YGN as an expat.

It's very expensive.

Hmm, I worked there 2012-2013.

Condo cost 4,500 baht/month.

Breakfast, lunch, evening meal and beer was less than 200 baht/day...

'Company' for a whole night was under 900 baht

Perhaps my lifestyle is different to others?

Simon

You obviously live in very different conditions from what I expect and am used to.

Yes, your lifestyle is different from mine.

A 'condo' @ 4,500 per month makes me laugh. I've seen such 'condos'. Do some math.

4,500 per month = 54,000 per year = approx USD$1,650 @ 6% yield gives a capital value of USD$27,500 for your supposed 'condo'.

Go find a 'Condo' in Yangon for $27,500 and you'll rival Bill Gates for wealth within a couple of years!

Breakfast, lunch evening meal and beer less than 200 THB = rubbish food and virtually no beer.

I don't rubbish members who post on this forum, but you make me very tempted to do so.

Hmmm.

My Company develops Condos in YGN

[geriatrickid]

if they make it more easy than Thailand and especially more easy and fair to invest then I know where I will bring my money. With its current laws and regulations Thailand is not an option to invest...

The "they" in this question also includes the "west". In case you forgot, there are sanctions and regulations in place in respect to financial transactions and business dealings that "they" have to change. I suggest that anyone wishing to invest take a long hard look at the legal implications of such an investment. If one is going to express reservations about the Thai legal system in respect to the handling of legal disputes involving a foreigner, then I do not see one embracing Myanmar which has an even more unreliable judicial system.

Unfortunately, it is not as simple as waving the magic visa wand. It might encourage small investors who are oblivious to the risks or who have nothing to lose, but the current approach to foreign investment still presents significant risk to a prudent investor. The change in vis policy is a step in a positive direction, but it has to be accompanied by a lot of other changes in order for Myanmar to be a viable destination.

[Tomtomtom69]

I think most of you might be quite shocked at the cost of living in YGN as an expat.

It's very expensive.

Hmm, I worked there 2012-2013.

Condo cost 4,500 baht/month.

Breakfast, lunch, evening meal and beer was less than 200 baht/day...

'Company' for a whole night was under 900 baht

Perhaps my lifestyle is different to others?

Simon

You obviously live in very different conditions from what I expect and am used to.

Yes, your lifestyle is different from mine.

A 'condo' @ 4,500 per month makes me laugh. I've seen such 'condos'. Do some math.

4,500 per month = 54,000 per year = approx USD$1,650 @ 6% yield gives a capital value of USD$27,500 for your supposed 'condo'.

Go find a 'Condo' in Yangon for $27,500 and you'll rival Bill Gates for wealth within a couple of years!

Breakfast, lunch evening meal and beer less than 200 THB = rubbish food and virtually no beer.

I don't rubbish members who post on this forum, but you make me very tempted to do so.

Hmmm.

My Company develops Condos in YGN

Costs have risen dramatically in YGN, particularly when it comes to housing and accommodation costs. I believe there are sh*t "condos" out there in Yangon that cost virtually nothing (like 4500 Baht equivalent per month), but they are likely amongst the dingiest, rat-infested, shoebox dives in town (though 2 years ago costs were obviously a fair bit lower than they are now). I'm not sure what a decent condo would cost nowadays, but I can imagine you'd be looking at probably at least 15000 Baht equivalent and as another poster mentioned 45000+ for something rather good with most amenities like wifi, cable TV, 24 security, fitness/gym, swimming pool etc. included.

Food ain't that cheap in YGN and there's little of the street food that is still so ubiquitous like in Bangkok. I'd say getting a decent meal for 150 Baht is no issue, but then you'll need to multiply that by 3 to get a daily total, so at least 450 Baht, more for some better variety and better quality food.

[geriatrickid]

It is all about speculations you do not need to live in Yangoon, you have options, what make the difference if you live there in the hassle? Are you going to work there? The true beautiful of Burma is in the country side place like - Bago, the wonderfuls of Mandalay, Mawlamyang, Patheyn, Piay, and so on.. not speaking about the Bagan (it is just amazing and peacifull place on earth).

The same idea, you goign to live in crazy bang cock or thai country-side. Always have option, good options.

All valid points. The downside is in getting to these places. It's like Khanom in Nahkon Si Thammarat. The beaches have such potential. Unfortunately, it's a hassle getting there from one of the 2 airports, the beaches are filthy, there isn't much for the tourists to see or do and the guest accommodations are low end and somewhat icky.

I too want to do something in Myanmar, but the barriers and obstacles are still too high in comparison to Malaysia and Thailand. The biggest market right now are foreign retirees who want a clean fairly modern place to go. It's what Phuket was sold as. Unfortunately, the transport systems and the access to medical care isn't there. The power grid and water supply are unreliable. Once these issues are addressed in the coming years, then Myanmar can take off. The large foreign investors ready to build a "Laguna" in Myanmar will be richly rewarded when they do. However, they are holding off because of regulatory and infrastructure issues, along with local laws and yes even corruption. When Centara, Marriot, etc. start investing I'll have more confidence.

[scubascuba3]

Thailand is very successful because of prostitution being widely available and accepted. If other Asian countries want to be as successful they will need to do the same, maybe even legalise it so one better than Thailand

[In Search of Space]

There will be a lot of face saving by Thailand, so its possible that Thailand wont follow ...

I really do hope that Thailand will give expats the same rights as Soi Dogs[/quote

Oh to be a soi dog

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[Lobstered]

another poster mentioned 45000+ for something rather good with most amenities like wifi, cable TV, 24 security, fitness/gym, swimming pool etc. included.

The 45,000 BHt (USD1500) a month was not for a luxury condo (there was no wifi, no Sat TV, no swimming pool, no gym). It was a basic apartment, the rooms were decent, there was air con in every room, there was a lift (with a generator so you would not get stuck in a lift during one of the very regular power cuts), there was 24 hr security.

but there was no generator for the individual apartments, you had to pump water up to a holding tank to have running water, the place was totally infested with cockroaches.

Housing standards in Myanmar are way way way below the level found in Thailand. But anything even remotely up to the standard most foreigners are willing to live in are going for USD1500 a month and up

[reflectionx]

There are still a lot of negative attitudes in the government to change before they will start to issue residency. Plus really if they did offer it now I do not think that many foreigners who had got used to life in Thailand would be that interested in downgrading to Myanmar. Mobiles very expensive, internet total rubbish, house incredibly expensive in Yangon, no health care, limited nightlife options.

Exactly the reasons why they might consider making it easier for farangs to stay there. If it was equally hard, not so many would do the switch.

They have to attract foreigners somehow, and once they do so, all of the above will be taken care of. That simple.

[KittenKong]

Beware Thailand... while you are tightening your laws on immigration, Myanmar will be hot on your heals ready to mop up many farangs that you piss off.

Must be tempting for those who are pissed off with visa runs or trying to find 400,000 baht every year.

I dont think that Thailand wants to attract the sort of long-term farang who cant find 400KBaht easily.

So maybe all the impecunious real estate agents and dyslexic language teachers and seedy bar owners/patrons and other assorted visa runners that swarm all over Thailand will soon bugger off to Rangoon. I for one will not miss them at all.

[TPI]

There will be a lot of face saving by Thailand, so its possible that Thailand wont follow ...

I really do hope that Thailand will give expats the same rights as Soi Dogs

Well, soi dogs are at least Thais. Some of the expat scum I have had the displeasure of seeing, ugly meat-heads on the way from Immigration entry points, heading straight to the bars .... You can be sure that the slovenly, disrespectful attire of so many these 'tourists' and whatever expats, fuels a political agenda to eradicate them.

Most of the soi dogs are better people.

I would hope that Myanmar will enforce a dess code for visitors, as Thailand used to.

"Dress code" ?? I see, you're one of those poor souls that misses the days of men slouched in a cane chair, wearing a rumpled white suit under a slow turning fan, clutching a gin and tonic in a dirty glass? Perhaps you're are the person in the "bombay bloomers" and solar topee?? Long white socks and white shoes escorting memsahib to the Gaut??

If you don't like what you see you could always close your eyes?

[Cats4ever]

There will be a lot of face saving by Thailand, so its possible that Thailand wont follow ...

I really do hope that Thailand will give expats the same rights as Soi Dogs

Well, soi dogs are at least Thais. Some of the expat scum I have had the displeasure of seeing, ugly meat-heads on the way from Immigration entry points, heading straight to the bars .... You can be sure that the slovenly, disrespectful attire of so many these 'tourists' and whatever expats, fuels a political agenda to eradicate them.

Most of the soi dogs are better people.

I would hope that Myanmar will enforce a dess code for visitors, as Thailand used to.

"Dress code" ?? I see, you're one of those poor souls that misses the days of men slouched in a cane chair, wearing a rumpled white suit under a slow turning fan, clutching a gin and tonic in a dirty glass? Perhaps you're are the person in the "bombay bloomers" and solar topee?? Long white socks and white shoes escorting memsahib to the Gaut??

If you don't like what you see you could always close your eyes?

Dressing respectfully, say wearing a shirt, is not old colonial time. I remember a guy being turfed out of an immigration office in the 70s when he came in wearing a string vest. No you don't need the white suit and you don't need the colonial outfit, some basic manners enrich us all.

Edited January 17, 2014 by Cats4ever

[Cats4ever]

Beware Thailand... while you are tightening your laws on immigration, Myanmar will be hot on your heals ready to mop up many farangs that you piss off.

Must be tempting for those who are pissed off with visa runs or trying to find 400,000 baht every year.

The article only says there will be a permanent residence system for foreigners. It does not say what the conditions for obtaining residency will be.

Might be the same as with Thailand.

I doubt that very much, after all Burma was part of our commonwealth, I hope the UK will be one of those exempt from visas. Good for you Myanmar !

They were not a member of the Commonwealth for very long. They couldn't wait to get out. They even changed the side of the road they drive on. Basically the Burmese never accepted colonialism. Look at the record of resistance. Look at Aung San and his siding with the Japanese until 1945.

I hope they are selective with their admission policy.

[geriatrickid]

They were not a member of the Commonwealth for very long. They couldn't wait to get out. They even changed the side of the road they drive on. Basically the Burmese never accepted colonialism. Look at the record of resistance. Look at Aung San and his siding with the Japanese until 1945.

I hope they are selective with their admission policy.

Burma/Myanmar was never a member. WWII left Burma a devastated nation, probably one of the hardest hit in Asia and it took decades for the country to crawl out of that mess. It has been subject to interference from both India and China and this only stopped in the 80's and 90's. It's no wonder the governments have been paranoid and suspicious of outsiders.

Yes, Burma change the side of the road it uses back in 1970. The story goes that it was because of the general dictator's dream at the time. I think it had more to do with the large number of Russians working in the country. During that period, it was Russia that was financing Burma. Whatever the reason, it was one of the smartest moves the country took. It sets the country apart. I like it and hopefully, if and when the border visit barriers/obstacles eventually come down it will discourage Thais and Indians from driving into Myanmar.

[Horton Jones]

You'd think some of these countries would study Panama... well-known for wanting to ENCOURAGE foreign retirees and part-timers. In Panama, one can not only OWN property, but there are even incentives, like no property taxes for 20 years! Also, there is a special card that entitles the ex-pat to discounts on lots of purchases: 15% at many restaurants, and up to 40% on rental cars, hotels, shopping, bus and plane travel, etc. A foreigner is also allowed to import a car FREE of tax/duty every two years. Health care is good there, with many doctors being trained in USA since they owned the canal for so many years. One can only dream "The Land of Smiles" might actually study other countries and see how to make things better here... whether that is democratic and election reform, or how they treat foreigners who want to live here. Like I said, it's purely a dream... the skeptics among you saying Thailand will never set aside pride to study foreigners. But Rama V did it well, maybe there is still hope. But meanwhile, MYANMAR could vault, leap way ahead of Thailand by adopting a more Panama-style relationship to foreigners. Otherwise, maybe I'll brush up on my Spanish language and pay another visit to my Panama friends.

Edited January 18, 2014 by Horton Jones

[Dellie]

Thailand is very successful because of prostitution being widely available and accepted. If other Asian countries want to be as successful they will need to do the same, maybe even legalise it so one better than Thailand

The Philippines has just as much prostitution and desperate young girls as Thailand and their tourist arrivals are not even close to Thailand. Also Malaysia where prostitution is much more hidden (except for KL and some areas) have just as many tourist arrivals as Thailand. Even more according to some rankings.

[scubascuba3]

Thailand is very successful because of prostitution being widely available and accepted. If other Asian countries want to be as successful they will need to do the same, maybe even legalise it so one better than Thailand

The Philippines has just as much prostitution and desperate young girls as Thailand and their tourist arrivals are not even close to Thailand. Also Malaysia where prostitution is much more hidden (except for KL and some areas) have just as many tourist arrivals as Thailand. Even more according to some rankings.

Interesting. I imagine there are other factors too. Say using UK as an example, Philippines is just that little bit too far when its easy to get to Thailand. Also Malaysia isn't popular in the UK. I don't know who makes up the bulk of the tourists

[Asiantravel]

Beware Thailand... while you are tightening your laws on immigration, Myanmar will be hot on your heals ready to mop up many farangs that you piss off.

Must be tempting for those who are pissed off with visa runs or trying to find 400,000 baht every year.

The article only says there will be a permanent residence system for foreigners. It does not say what the conditions for obtaining residency will be.

Might be the same as with Thailand.

I doubt that very much, after all Burma was part of our commonwealth, I hope the UK will be one of those exempt from visas. Good for you Myanmar !

Even India doesn't do that so don't expect too much

[simon43]

This isn't a thread about 'I can live cheaper than you'. So I will briefly reply to previous posts and leave it at that.

I concede that accommodation costs have risen a lot. People have different requirements and lifestyles. If you are happy paying higher prices for something that you can get at a fraction of the price, then that's absolutely fine.

I lived for 12 months in downtown Yangon up to April 2013. The living costs that I quoted were what I paid for healthy, fresh food (and lots of it!).

But please don't 'rubbish' my comments about my daily expenses just because you are having to pay more than me

Simon

[Soutpeel]

You'd think some of these countries would study Panama... well-known for wanting to ENCOURAGE foreign retirees and part-timers. In Panama, one can not only OWN property, but there are even incentives, like no property taxes for 20 years! Also, there is a special card that entitles the ex-pat to discounts on lots of purchases: 15% at many restaurants, and up to 40% on rental cars, hotels, shopping, bus and plane travel, etc. A foreigner is also allowed to import a car FREE of tax/duty every two years. Health care is good there, with many doctors being trained in USA since they owned the canal for so many years. One can only dream "The Land of Smiles" might actually study other countries and see how to make things better here... whether that is democratic and election reform, or how they treat foreigners who want to live here. Like I said, it's purely a dream... the skeptics among you saying Thailand will never set aside pride to study foreigners. But Rama V did it well, maybe there is still hope. But meanwhile, MYANMAR could vault, leap way ahead of Thailand by adopting a more Panama-style relationship to foreigners. Otherwise, maybe I'll brush up on my Spanish language and pay another visit to my Panama friends.

So when you moving to Panama then ? or are you not going as it costs more for a lady

[Time Traveller]

I think most of you might be quite shocked at the cost of living in YGN as an expat.

It's very expensive.

....shhhh....let the moaners go over there and find out themselves...

actually that is not a negative, it's a good thing.