Thailand third worst in the world for road deaths; Phuket killing someone every three days

[impulse]

Interesting statistics on vehicle registrations:

http://apps.dlt.go.th/statistics_web/brochure/cumcar12.pdf

[bender92]

The majority of road accidents in LOS is due to a lack of "cognitive reasoning" and "common sense" in the gray matter located between Thai ears.

Nope.

You generally get all the safety you can afford... Putting it down to "cognitive reasoning" is pretty racist, huh?

The vast majority of the carnage on Thai roads is due to economic conditions that put so many Thais on motorcycles- which are 20-30x more dangerous per km than a car, and (almost) infinitely more dangerous than walking.

A little poorer, and they'd be riding bicycles or walking. A little richer, and they'd be riding in their own individual seats in cars with seat belts fastened.

Nothing the least "racist" in my post at all, other then in your mind. Simply stating well known facts. Anyone who has been in Thailand for any length of time is well aware that cognitive reasoning is simply NOT a strong point with Thai in general. They think only of themselves, and only for the moment. For the most part, their concept of "the future" only extends until "tomorrow". How many Thai have you ever known that actually admit that something is their fault, or apologize for anything? In over 6 years of living here, I've yet to meet one. I've had construction workers who show up at my house, 2-3 hours later than they were scheduled to of course, and then have to borrow MY tools to do a job for which THEY should have the tools for.

And I completely agree with terryp in regards to what he wrote. In other words, they don't THINK, only act without thinking.

And a Thai lady with a 4th grade education can take a university educated western guy for everything he has, and send him packing with nothing.

That's because the man is thinking with his small head, doesn't mean she is bright, just cunning.

[Felt 35]

Hmm... if for nothing else it seems the meeting with the expert panel at least have made to fix a bit on well known Internationally official road fatalities in Thailand and even between the media on their home turf the numbers vary from 1 dead every third day to 2 dead every third day

[hansgruber]

I had realised that Thailand has a bad road death record, but I had not expected it to be so high on a world scale.

Just goes to show we are all rolling the dice out there on the roads.

Scary.

[Felt 35]

The majority of road accidents in LOS is due to a lack of "cognitive reasoning" and "common sense" in the gray matter located between Thai ears.

Nope.

You generally get all the safety you can afford... Putting it down to "cognitive reasoning" is pretty racist, huh?

The vast majority of the carnage on Thai roads is due to economic conditions that put so many Thais on motorcycles- which are 20-30x more dangerous per km than a car, and (almost) infinitely more dangerous than walking.

A little poorer, and they'd be riding bicycles or walking. A little richer, and they'd be riding in their own individual seats in cars with seat belts fastened.

I promise you that the day they get to you, blaming economic conditions will fade away quickly.

[impulse]

Nothing the least "racist" in my post at all, other then in your mind. Simply stating well known facts. Anyone who has been in Thailand for any length of time is well aware that cognitive reasoning is simply NOT a strong point with Thai in general. They think only of themselves, and only for the moment. For the most part, their concept of "the future" only extends until "tomorrow". How many Thai have you ever known that actually admit that something is their fault, or apologize for anything? In over 6 years of living here, I've yet to meet one. I've had construction workers who show up at my house, 2-3 hours later than they were scheduled to of course, and then have to borrow MY tools to do a job for which THEY should have the tools for.

And I completely agree with terryp in regards to what he wrote. In other words, they don't THINK, only act without thinking.

And a Thai lady with a 4th grade education can take a university educated western guy for everything he has, and send him packing with nothing.

That's because the man is thinking with his small head, doesn't mean she is bright, just cunning.

They think only of themselves, and only for the moment. For the most part, their concept of "the future" only extends until "tomorrow"

Hard to reconcile that quoted statement I was responding to with the "cunning" (your word) and forward planning required to systematically clean out an educated foreigner, small head dominant or not.

I'm not claiming they're any kind of superior beings, or ethical giants- but to contend that they have no cognitive reasoning skills, or forward thinking is what military folk call "underestimating your opponent".

And the rest of his statement is pretty racist, regardless of his denials.

[strawpanda]

A simple measure that I would like to see is making it compulsory for seatbelts to be fitted and USABLE in all taxis.

[NomadJoe]

Add at least another 20% on top of whatever the official government road death totals are when you factor in those that don't end up getting officially reported. A couple of years ago in Phuket it was discovered that several road deaths of foreigners didn't make the official list.

[deecee10]

Tell us something we don't know.

They are all just pissin' in the wind.

[Carl64]

A road safety campaign or brain washing out of old and dangerous driving habits is best served up in prime time TV. Showing all the blood and guts at meal time across all channels. Another less brutal series of ads should be aimed at the kids prime time as well so they can learn about being a safe passenger by putting pressure on the driver to be more careful.

In the end the quickest way to fix the problem is to reward the good drivers and punish the bad ...it's that simple

Education is a must.

Not sure if the graphic scenes work that well. Look at all the smokers out there with horrible pictures of dead and dying people. I still smoke and no one has ever told me they stopped smoking because of this. But in saying that I feel Thailand has to try everything to stop the carnage.

[chrissables]

The majority of road accidents in LOS is due to a lack of "cognitive reasoning" and "common sense" in the gray matter located between Thai ears.

Nope.

You generally get all the safety you can afford... Putting it down to "cognitive reasoning" is pretty racist, huh?

The vast majority of the carnage on Thai roads is due to economic conditions that put so many Thais on motorcycles- which are 20-30x more dangerous per km than a car, and (almost) infinitely more dangerous than walking.

A little poorer, and they'd be riding bicycles or walking. A little richer, and they'd be riding in their own individual seats in cars with seat belts fastened.

Your reasoning reminds me so much of the gun debate in USA. Blame the gun instead of the gun user

just because people have motorbikes it doesn't mean they have to use them in a dangerous way as they do on Thailand's roads.

In so many cases the motorcyclist is travelling so fast that would be unable to bring the vehicle to a halt safely if it was necessary to do so.

The irony is, they rush around on these things (and the taxi riders are amongst the worst ) but for what?

So they can end spending so much of their time at their destination sitting and staring into oblivion. They have no etiquette.and no consideration whatsoever for other road users.

So don't blame the motorbikes, blame the ridiculously low level of motorcyclist and driver education in this country.

You'll never hear me saying guns are dangerous. I own many.

But proof positive of my point are all the foreigners I see zipping around breaking all the rules of man and physics on scooters here in Bangkok and Pattaya and Kanchanaburi and.... If the crappy driving is down to the Thais' "lack of cognitive reasoning and common sense", how do you explain all the foreigners who do the same? Is it contagious? I think not. Like the Thai's, they have learned that zipping around saves time, and the chances of a negative consequence are outweighed by the benefits of time saved. At least, that's their (very western) calculus.

Bottom line is people do what they do because of consequences. And that's down to enforcement, not "lack of cognitive reasoning and common sense". As long as the benefits of breaking the laws outweigh the consequences, laws will be broken.

And the studies that say scooters are 20-30x as dangerous as cars comes from surveys in the USA and Australia- not Thailand. Which indicates that scooters are dangerous, regardless of how "right thinking" the drivers are. As long as the vast majority of vehicles on Thai roads have 2 wheels, the traffic statistics will continue to be bleak. If they want to change the statistics, they'll need to change the proportion of 2 to 4 wheel vehicles, and/or change the cost/benefit equation for breaking the rules- through enforcement.

Surely you don't mean try to reduce the amount of motorcycles on the road? Maybe try prosecuting car, bus and lorry drivers that treat motorbikes as second class citizens, and pull out in front of motorbikes with out a thought, causing the majority of accidents. Although i would agree the young gangs racing about here in Pattaya are a danger to themselves and others.

I recently rode my small motorbike up to Phetchabun, Nong Khai, Chaiphum, Korat and back, 2100 km+ in that time i did not see one motorbike ridden in a bad or reckless way. I did however have quiet a few cars cause me panic attacks by overtaking other vehicles and forcing me into the sand covered and pot holed side of the road. They just flashed their lights and i had to move or be killed. These people need to be taken off the road, the motorcyclists!

[chrissables]

Last week the BBC had a program on about Vietnam and one part of it showed the presenter on the back of a Vespa look alike and behind him lots of other scooters and noticed that all the riders had helmets on.

Your point being?

[atsiii]

how about some capital investment in road safely rather than throwing money out of the window to win the next election?

But they are investing: in a recent TV thread, they hired a bunch of monks to exorcise the "evil spirits" from the roads. If that isn't commitment to improved road safety I don't know what is. 555

[dominique355]

I would propose a simple and effective way to increase road safety and reduce the number of accidents:

Enforce the law!

I know that's an utopy here, but that's really all it needs: a police willing and able to enforce the traffic rules and follow through. Not just a one week PR campagne, do it every day of the year.

[bangarang]

"“We've also had success convincing people to wear helmets. For the last three years, Phuket has ranked number two in Thailand for helmet use,”"

Seriously?.... What does #2 translate to.... 10% use?

[PaulHamon]

A little poorer, and they'd be riding bicycles or walking. A little richer, and they'd be riding in their own individual seats in cars with seat belts fastened.

Car are the killer...

Might be findefor the people on the inside with the seat belts (if they used them).

...but what about the pedestrians, cyclists and motorbike riders killed by cars everyday.

[diehard60]

The majority of road accidents in LOS is due to a lack of "cognitive reasoning" and "common sense" in the gray matter located between Thai ears.

Nope.

You generally get all the safety you can afford... Putting it down to "cognitive reasoning" is pretty racist, huh?

The vast majority of the carnage on Thai roads is due to economic conditions that put so many Thais on motorcycles- which are 20-30x more dangerous per km than a car, and (almost) infinitely more dangerous than walking.

A little poorer, and they'd be riding bicycles or walking. A little richer, and they'd be riding in their own individual seats in cars with seat belts fastened.

Nothing the least "racist" in my post at all, other then in your mind. Simply stating well known facts. Anyone who has been in Thailand for any length of time is well aware that cognitive reasoning is simply NOT a strong point with Thai in general. They think only of themselves, and only for the moment. For the most part, their concept of "the future" only extends until "tomorrow". How many Thai have you ever known that actually admit that something is their fault, or apologize for anything? In over 6 years of living here, I've yet to meet one. I've had construction workers who show up at my house, 2-3 hours later than they were scheduled to of course, and then have to borrow MY tools to do a job for which THEY should have the tools for.

And I completely agree with terryp in regards to what he wrote. In other words, they don't THINK, only act without thinking.

Ok you two - think about this just for a second.

Thia people are the MOST polite people in the world - I mean they always smile Right???? Well dont ever meet one when you are driving, they own the road and you can not make them understand different. When they are driving they have NO manors at all.

[puipuitom]

The majority of road accidents in LOS is due to a lack of "cognitive reasoning" and "common sense" in the gray matter located between Thai ears.

Nope.

You generally get all the safety you can afford... Putting it down to "cognitive reasoning" is pretty racist, huh?

The vast majority of the carnage on Thai roads is due to economic conditions that put so many Thais on motorcycles- which are 20-30x more dangerous per km than a car, and (almost) infinitely more dangerous than walking.

A little poorer, and they'd be riding bicycles or walking. A little richer, and they'd be riding in their own individual seats in cars with seat belts fastened.

Ever been in Saigon ( HCMC) ?

You will see a LOT more motorbikes, but also a LOT LESS accidents.

It is just the lack of skulls to drive and the complete ignorance of safety, what causes all these accidents in Thailand.

[allan michaud]

I had realised that Thailand has a bad road death record, but I had not expected it to be so high on a world scale.

They have been at number 3 for several years now with around 50 deaths a day, what I find laughable is how a big fuss is made about the 2 holiday periods and how dangerous they are, yet the figures shown are routinely less than the daily average.

Reducing the slaughter is not that difficult, get the police to do their jobs and stop people. Increase penalties for drunkenness and dangerous offenses and have a massive radio and TV campaign over a long period. Have experts appearing on a wide range of shows to make sure the message is getting across to everyone. Strict controls on public transportation, both drivers and buses. Having proper checks on vehicles in general would also help as there are far too many death traps on the roads. I routinely see large trucks and even buses "crabbing" down roads at high speed, it's so clear the drivers are struggling to control their vehicles properly, it's hardly surprising their are so many accidents. The police should not be stopping these vehicles, especially buses and prosecuting the owners.

It's not rocket science, just common sense and some education. However, it won't be easy given 26% of the population believe in fairies, the police are a complete joke, the politicians are too busy lining their pockets and drunk driving is not taken seriously by anyone. As someone who has driven/ridden extensively in 15 countries, from Europe to Africa and Asia, my current home, Cambodia, has the worst drivers I have ever seen. However, due to the state of the roads the speeds here are low, so I don't find it anywhere near as bad as Thailand, which for me is by far the most dangerous country I have driven/ridden in. Almost every journey I have taken in Thailand involves a close call or some total f^@%wit doing something insane.

However TIT.

[jocko]

Last week the BBC had a program on about Vietnam and one part of it showed the presenter on the back of a Vespa look alike and behind him lots of other scooters and noticed that all the riders had helmets on.

Your point being?

That there Asian neighbor has managed to convince its citizens that wearing a helmet is a good idea.

[Lancelot]

And yet, they're 5 chess moves ahead of a typical westerner in sizing up other people they meet, and their stature relative to those people, and how to best "manage" their relationship with other people.

And a Thai lady with a 4th grade education can take a university educated western guy for everything he has, and send him packing with nothing.

I can assure you, they are thinking. 100% of the time. Different than you and I think, perhaps, but in a manner that fits the requirements of their society- not the one we left back home.

Sure the locals think and the proverbial farmers daughter is indeed quite skilled in separating some western fool from his money and send him packing.

But that's not the whole story...

I put it down to selfishness and a healthy dose of they simply don't care.

Now lets hear from all the Thai apologists and their reasoning: "Traffic accidents happen in every country, so we shouldn't object to a drunken driver grinding us into the pavement..."

I think the statistics were flawed and Thailand is actually one of the safest countries to drive in

Yeah, that's the ticket

[chrisrazz]

It's difficult not to reconcile the fact that life here is cheap with the behavior of many road users. Most car drivers were at some point in time motorcyclists, yet seem ambivalent to the danger they present to motorcycles. Speed, alcohol, drugs, fatigue, poor road awareness and concentration are the major contributors to road accidents the world over. A third place for Thailand, they've made it to the playoffs.

[chrissables]

Last week the BBC had a program on about Vietnam and one part of it showed the presenter on the back of a Vespa look alike and behind him lots of other scooters and noticed that all the riders had helmets on.

Your point being?

That there Asian neighbor has managed to convince its citizens that wearing a helmet is a good idea.

No, the man who owned the helmet manufacturing company was also a politician, so in passing the law he made millions. (So i have been told)

How many accidents have been stopped / prevented by helmets?

[zyphodb]

The majority of road accidents in LOS is due to a lack of "cognitive reasoning" and "common sense" in the gray matter located between Thai ears.

Nope.

You generally get all the safety you can afford... Putting it down to "cognitive reasoning" is pretty racist, huh?

The vast majority of the carnage on Thai roads is due to economic conditions that put so many Thais on motorcycles- which are 20-30x more dangerous per km than a car, and (almost) infinitely more dangerous than walking.

A little poorer, and they'd be riding bicycles or walking. A little richer, and they'd be riding in their own individual seats in cars with seat belts fastened.

And saying it's all because of Thai's riding m/cycles is pretty Bikist I'd say... it's not the M/bikes causing the accidents it's the Car/truck/Bus drivers who are driving around like lunatics smashing into the M/bikes, bicycles, & pedestrians all over Thailand...

[skorchio]

The majority of road accidents in LOS is due to a lack of "cognitive reasoning" and "common sense" in the gray matter located between Thai ears.

Nope.

You generally get all the safety you can afford... Putting it down to "cognitive reasoning" is pretty racist, huh?

The vast majority of the carnage on Thai roads is due to economic conditions that put so many Thais on motorcycles- which are 20-30x more dangerous per km than a car, and (almost) infinitely more dangerous than walking.

A little poorer, and they'd be riding bicycles or walking. A little richer, and they'd be riding in their own individual seats in cars with seat belts fastened.

I have never read so much <deleted>...so all the idiots who ride the WRONG WAY (cars and bikes) are not to blame, the fools who undertake in Cars bus's and trucks are not to blame , the donkeys that make instant uturns in 6 wheel trucks are not to blame and the flat heads who drive bus's with 1 foot on the brake are well .....not to blame ....

Yes I have to agree this is nonsensical post claiming that economics are to blame. What tomfoolery and fockwitery are you thinking man? Many Thais drive like idiots (there are also many good and careful ones), and there is no law enforcement to stop them.

[NoshowJones]

The majority of road accidents in LOS is due to a lack of "cognitive reasoning" and "common sense" in the gray matter located between Thai ears.

Nope.

You generally get all the safety you can afford... Putting it down to "cognitive reasoning" is pretty racist, huh?

The vast majority of the carnage on Thai roads is due to economic conditions that put so many Thais on motorcycles- which are 20-30x more dangerous per km than a car, and (almost) infinitely more dangerous than walking.

A little poorer, and they'd be riding bicycles or walking. A little richer, and they'd be riding in their own individual seats in cars with seat belts fastened.

I have never read so much <deleted>...so all the idiots who ride the WRONG WAY (cars and bikes) are not to blame, the fools who undertake in Cars bus's and trucks are not to blame , the donkeys that make instant uturns in 6 wheel trucks are not to blame and the flat heads who drive bus's with 1 foot on the brake are well .....not to blame ....

Total agree with the above answer, all the Thai need is common sense on the streets. Try to count the drivers on motor cycles that are calling and even texting ( those are the ones you can see, the ones in the cars and trucks not, because of the dark windows )

The majority of Thai people need common sense everywhere, not just on the streets. If the Thais had the same level of common sense as most Western countries, then Thailand would be near the best country in the world.

[NoshowJones]

And yet, they're 5 chess moves ahead of a typical westerner in sizing up other people they meet, and their stature relative to those people, and how to best "manage" their relationship with other people.

And a Thai lady with a 4th grade education can take a university educated western guy for everything he has, and send him packing with nothing.

I can assure you, they are thinking. 100% of the time. Different than you and I think, perhaps, but in a manner that fits the requirements of their society- not the one we left back home.

Sure the locals think and the proverbial farmers daughter is indeed quite skilled in separating some western fool from his money and send him packing.

But that's not the whole story...

I put it down to selfishness and a healthy dose of they simply don't care.

Now lets hear from all the Thai apologists and their reasoning: "Traffic accidents happen in every country, so we shouldn't object to a drunken driver grinding us into the pavement..."

I think the statistics were flawed and Thailand is actually one of the safest countries to drive in

Yeah, that's the ticket

[jocko]

Last week the BBC had a program on about Vietnam and one part of it showed the presenter on the back of a Vespa look alike and behind him lots of other scooters and noticed that all the riders had helmets on.

Your point being?

That there Asian neighbor has managed to convince its citizens that wearing a helmet is a good idea.

No, the man who owned the helmet manufacturing company was also a politician, so in passing the law he made millions. (So i have been told)

How many accidents have been stopped / prevented by helmets?

None of course.

[NoshowJones]

And yet, they're 5 chess moves ahead of a typical westerner in sizing up other people they meet, and their stature relative to those people, and how to best "manage" their relationship with other people.

And a Thai lady with a 4th grade education can take a university educated western guy for everything he has, and send him packing with nothing.

I can assure you, they are thinking. 100% of the time. Different than you and I think, perhaps, but in a manner that fits the requirements of their society- not the one we left back home.

Sure the locals think and the proverbial farmers daughter is indeed quite skilled in separating some western fool from his money and send him packing.

But that's not the whole story...

I put it down to selfishness and a healthy dose of they simply don't care.

Now lets hear from all the Thai apologists and their reasoning: "Traffic accidents happen in every country, so we shouldn't object to a drunken driver grinding us into the pavement..."

I think the statistics were flawed and Thailand is actually one of the safest countries to drive in

Yeah, that's the ticket

What???? Don't you notice all those halfwits driving and riding on the wrong side of the road? One time a guy on a motorbike was riding on the wrong side of the road towards me, he was on the narrow hard shoulder of a two way main road, when I saw him I slowed down to almost walking pace, but refused to move out, if I did then I ran the risk of getting hit by overtaking traffic. he rode past me and came right of his bike, how I loved that. Som nam na.

[impulse]

The majority of road accidents in LOS is due to a lack of "cognitive reasoning" and "common sense" in the gray matter located between Thai ears.

Nope.

You generally get all the safety you can afford... Putting it down to "cognitive reasoning" is pretty racist, huh?

The vast majority of the carnage on Thai roads is due to economic conditions that put so many Thais on motorcycles- which are 20-30x more dangerous per km than a car, and (almost) infinitely more dangerous than walking.

A little poorer, and they'd be riding bicycles or walking. A little richer, and they'd be riding in their own individual seats in cars with seat belts fastened.

And saying it's all because of Thai's riding m/cycles is pretty Bikist I'd say... it's not the M/bikes causing the accidents it's the Car/truck/Bus drivers who are driving around like lunatics smashing into the M/bikes, bicycles, & pedestrians all over Thailand...

I'm not claiming the scooter riders are at fault. I'm claiming that international studies show scooters to be 20-30x more deadly per km driven than a 4 wheel vehicle. Simple physics is "at fault". Lots of steel, 4 doors and a roof are pretty good to have around you in an accident.

Since the vast majority of vehicles in Thailand are scooters, and there are a lot of scooters per 100,000 population, it's not surprising that there are a lot of fatalities per 100,000 population. If they listed deaths per 100,000 scooters, or deaths per 100,000,000 miles driven, the numbers could look very different.

As for crazy scooter riders, here's a thought exercise: Envision the 126 scooters lined up in front of the cars at the red light at Asok Junction at rush hour. Now, in your mind, take those same 126 scooters and line them up 1x1 or 2x2 as they'd be required to line up if they were in California or (I assume) London. Now, look back at how far your line of sane and legal scooters (mixed in with the cars and trucks and buses) stretches. And now, turn that light green and mentally count how many minutes it takes to clear that 1/2 mile line of cars, trucks, buses and those legal, sane scooters through your green light.

That should go a long way to explain why they don't drive scooters here like they do back home. And I'll be leaving Bangkok the day they decide to make them.

Edited January 25, 2014 by impulse