Rice-pledge catastrophe could be final straw for Thailand

[ggold]

Remember that this article is from the hopelessly biased 'Nation'. The problem is that the EC wont let the government borrow the money it needs to pay the farmers.

However much has been syphoned off in corrupt payments, the scheme has let to financial stability for farmers (until now) and the Isaan economy is booming. Once the government is returned to power taxing the rich more and collecting taxes that are due (tax evasion here is worse than Greece) should seal the hole in the coffers.

The corruption is lamentable, but this scheme has resulted in a major redistribution of wealth. For too long the Isaan and Lanna have been the rice baskets for Bangkok and its source of cheap exploitable labour. This is changing and Sutheps patrons dont like it.

Issan booming has nothing to do with this scheme.

How many rai of rice farmland do you think the average Issan family has?

I would say not more than 15 judging from my subdistrict and village.

That's per family so we are talking about 4 or 5 people.

How much rice of those 15 rai will they sell after their own consumption?

Maybe 5.

Assuming they get the 15,000 baht,(unlikely at the mill, more likely 12,000 or 13,000 baht max) they will benefit from the scheme (assuming market price of 8,000 baht) to the tune of 35,000 baht per year per family absolute maximum, and assuming 15 rai.

Remember Issan only has one crop per year.

The people who really benefit from the rice scheme are not the poor but those farmers with 50, 100, 200 rai and especially those from the central plains who can grow rice all year round, 3 crops.

Many say the real aim of this scheme was to win those constituencies in central Thailand that Pheua Thai didn't possess, 'the helping the poor farmer' was just a convenient tag to sound caring.

I have agreed that the corruption is lamentable and I'm quite sure that winning seats in the central plains figured in PT's thinking - the same as it would anywhere in the world - government spending in 'marginal constituencies' is often higher than elsewhere.

However, even using your own homespun economics, if each farmer earned the extra 35,000 you suggest, how many of those small farmers are there in the Isaan? 1m, 2m? that in itself means another 35 - 70 bn baht going into the Isaan economy that wasn't there before. Now maybe you can begin to see how important this scheme is in redistributing wealth.

Why don't you accept your useless at economics, if it was wealth distribution why don't the farmers have enough money to see them through. Are you so ignorant you can't see the truth.

[smedly]

Remember that this article is from the hopelessly biased 'Nation'. The problem is that the EC wont let the government borrow the money it needs to pay the farmers.

However much has been syphoned off in corrupt payments, the scheme has let to financial stability for farmers (until now) and the Isaan economy is booming. Once the government is returned to power taxing the rich more and collecting taxes that are due (tax evasion here is worse than Greece) should seal the hole in the coffers.

The corruption is lamentable, but this scheme has resulted in a major redistribution of wealth. For too long the Isaan and Lanna have been the rice baskets for Bangkok and its source of cheap exploitable labour. This is changing and Sutheps patrons dont like it.

what is it you don't understand about "not legally allowed to borrow" or take on any loans that would impact an incoming government, this is the only reason PTP has not been able to take on more loans, you post sounds like you are trying to blame the EC for the rice scheme woes which is simply not true

and even if they could borrow more money do you honestly think that would be in the best interests of the country - they need to sell rice from the massive stocks even if it is at a loss then pay the farmers and scrap the whole pledging system - this vote buying populist program has cost Thailand dearly it's absurd if they think it can continue

The sooner this bunch of lying corrupt thieves are gone the better for everyone, how anyone can defend them is beyond comprehension

[klauskunkel]

Remember that this article is from the hopelessly biased 'Nation'. The problem is that the EC wont let the government borrow the money it needs to pay the farmers.

However much has been syphoned off in corrupt payments, the scheme has let to financial stability for farmers (until now) and the Isaan economy is booming. Once the government is returned to power taxing the rich more and collecting taxes that are due (tax evasion here is worse than Greece) should seal the hole in the coffers.

The corruption is lamentable, but this scheme has resulted in a major redistribution of wealth. For too long the Isaan and Lanna have been the rice baskets for Bangkok and its source of cheap exploitable labour. This is changing and Sutheps patrons dont like it.

The government should have budgeted for this payment BEFORE they called an election. The payments have been outstanding since October, before the EC were even involved.

Sent from my phone ...

IMO, this government:

can't, won't and doesn't understand budgeting (i.e. the lost 350bn baht flooding budget );

it can't, won't and doesn't understand accounting/accountability (sic );

it can't, won't and doesn't understand governing (just look at their political talent );

however:

it can, will and understands perfectly the principles of corruption, how to break the law and evade justice, how to look out for themselves and their cronies, practice nepotism, favoritism and intimidation

in a word, this government is composed of self-serving, inept, criminal, narcissistic, unethical liars whose pants are on fire right now...

[slapout]

Remember that this article is from the hopelessly biased 'Nation'. The problem is that the EC wont let the government borrow the money it needs to pay the farmers.

However much has been syphoned off in corrupt payments, the scheme has let to financial stability for farmers (until now) and the Isaan economy is booming. Once the government is returned to power taxing the rich more and collecting taxes that are due (tax evasion here is worse than Greece) should seal the hole in the coffers.

The corruption is lamentable, but this scheme has resulted in a major redistribution of wealth. For too long the Isaan and Lanna have been the rice baskets for Bangkok and its source of cheap exploitable labour. This is changing and Sutheps patrons dont like it.

I like to see things put in a consice, orderly fashion. Does this about sum up your indepth analysis.?

The Nation, and EC are in the process and will be responsible for the forthcoming economic meltdown to Isaan and the rice farming sector throughout Thailand.

[spirit47]

In the money from the rice-pledging scheme participating a lot of people, Mr. Millval is happy, that 70 billion from 500 billion Bath going to 2 Million small farmers, 35.000 each, if we allow these numbers to be real, only for example.

We know, the farmers must buy seeds, chemicals and fertilizer, why?

A real view on the complete agricultur mismanagement show us a lot. The farmers dependent from the seed, chemical and fertilizer -dealers, and for this, the Government spend a lot of money too. A 15 rai mass-rice farm cant stand in a global market, thats 2,4 ha, a crop farm in Germany less than 100 ha have a problem. The rice farmers still burning the fiber what is a wonderful fertilizer, but washed out immediatly, its like burning money. About the use of Pesticides, its a long and sad story.

I dont see that the Taksin-regime do anything for the small rice farmers, but I sure that a lot of reds earn on them. They push the farmers to make dept, until they must sell their land, and sure thats the reds involved in making new landlords.

I only see that the "Kings Projects" are well planned and forcing to produce high quality. Organic rice would be easy to sell to good prices, the rice-fiber is perfect for high quality mushrooms. I think there is a lot of opportunitys in the agricultur section.

Water managment, soil approvement, and so on. This Goverment failed completly to solve any problems, they acting selfish.

[tilac2]

This must be so frustrating for Abhisit as well. He warned the PTP before the scheme even started that it would end up like this.

Those years at Eton and Oxford were not wasted learning how to say "Welcome" correctly. It was spent learning about democracy and the effects of populism.

Abhisit tours esteemed universities and is a key note speaker at conferences teaching the next generation of global leaders on the effects of populism. He taught them that this is excately where the PTP would end up. He was right. Yingluck didn't listen then and won't acknowledge it now. Imagine if she listened to Abhisit 3 years ago. The rice scheme cost 700 billion. What was the cost of the high speed trains? 780 billion I think.

http://www.fnfasia.org/efn-asia-conference-2012/

Populism destroys human values of pride, self-respect and hard work. When you make people accustomed to populism, they always demand more of it. Populism, when unleashed, doesn't go away and often eats its own master as has been shown here.

"Populism" is a word that is so vague, or rather that is used to describe so many different things, that it has become almost useless. What I guess you mean is governments who use public tax revenues to assist the poorer majority.

There is no evidence that assisting the poorer members of society in sensible ways "destroys human values of pride, self-respect and hard work". The Thaksin policies on health, education and small loans didn't destroy the people or the Thai economy: indeed the economy did well between 2001 and 2006.

Actually high rates of overall tax are characteristic of well-run, successful economies, such as those in northern Europe. Their total tax revenues as % of GDP are typically in the range 30% to the high 40s%. By contrast Thailand's is less than half that (approx 17% when I last checked). That's one reason the public infrastructure in Thailand is in such a dilapidated condition.

Naturally the rich in Thailand oppose spending money on the poor. They want to have a huge army of labourers with no rights and no land who are prepared to work for tiny wages.

This situation must change. That's why the Shin policies are going in the right direction, with such moves as a minimum wage (again, a sensible policy, which need have - contrary to popular belief - no adverse effect on the overall economy or employment levels).

The rice scheme seems to have been mishandled, but I think the economic jury is still out on the details of that. The immediate problems seem to be due to political withholding of monies.

Your internet link points to organisations that are known for their right wing, laissez faire attitudes. Obviously they oppose spending on the poor.

Edited January 31, 2014 by tilac2

[jcisco]

Issan booming has nothing to do with this scheme.

How many rai of rice farmland do you think the average Issan family has?

Remember Issan only has one crop per year.

especially those from the central plains who can grow rice all year round, 3 crops.

I am absolutely shocked that there has not been a move from the government or the farmers to get some sort of infrastructure in place to fix this.

I am assuming it is a water related issue, why have not damns been constructed or water allocated for this.

This is a shocking gap in production and if it is water issue as I suspect, it must really hold back small plot owners. Not to mention a huge economic waste!

But Siripon if I got this wrong, let me know, I'm interested if you know more.

[ALLSEEINGEYE]

Remember that this article is from the hopelessly biased 'Nation'. The problem is that the EC wont let the government borrow the money it needs to pay the farmers.

However much has been syphoned off in corrupt payments, the scheme has let to financial stability for farmers (until now) and the Isaan economy is booming. Once the government is returned to power taxing the rich more and collecting taxes that are due (tax evasion here is worse than Greece) should seal the hole in the coffers.

The corruption is lamentable, but this scheme has resulted in a major redistribution of wealth. For too long the Isaan and Lanna have been the rice baskets for Bangkok and its source of cheap exploitable labour. This is changing and Sutheps patrons dont like it.

And you call the Nation hopelessly biased? Pot= kettle = black

[ggold]

The rice pledging scams, credit cards for farmers, Etc Etc, is

all vote buying with the tax payers money.

Populist policies can never be good for the country,thats why

you never really see it practiced in civilized countries,promise

people the Earth and you will always get the most votes,but

what happens afterwards cannot be sustained,its short sighted

and no good for the country.

regards Worgeordie

So you have never heard that the biggest slice of the EU budget goes as subsidies to the Farmers ?

Butter mountains,beef mountains,wine lakes.....ring a bell

Never heard that in many parts of Europe huge industrial sites are stamped out of the ground at huge cost and then given out to industries at minimal rents,low electricity costs and zero corporate taxes for 5 years.

We are so corruption free and clever,the Thais should copy us and really screw up !!!

That was the eighties, and is not relevant any more, there are no butter or wine mountains any more.

[smedly]

That this government can't even pay the farmers for their rice makes the government's leader over in Dubai's claim that his govt sent money overseas to him to the tune of 30,000,000,000 in october last year even more sickening. Although if the farmers really do love him as much as his fans on this forum have us believe, maybe they are happy for him that his wealth has skyrocketed by 450% in the last year thanks to him trousering their rice money. No doubt a huge consolation to them. A less kind person could consider it as fools getting exactly what they deserve

Is there any foundation to your claims about Thaksin recieving 30 Billion Baht last year? Just wondering where you read that.

Glad you asked.

He boasted to the reporters at Forbes magazine. quote from article "Forbes conservatively estimated his family’s holdings at $600 million this summer, but he told us he’s had $1 billion of the funds seized by a succeeding government returned to him."

from http://www.forbes.com/sites/timferguson/2012/10/29/thaksin-in-exile-advising-sister-digging-for-gold/

why is this not out there for all to see - I had assumed quite a while ago (ref my previous posts) he had got his confiscated money back and then some, this is the first time I've actually heard that he confirmed it and boasted about it - shocking......he should be locked up for this grand theft again from the Thai people, oh wait he's already supposed to be in jail right, and of course the top red leaders must have got their share of this hefty chunk of stolen money - opening airlines etc - why doesn't the DSI (tarit) start investigating these thieves ? oh wait very highly likely he got his chunk also

[tingtongteesood]

Remember that this article is from the hopelessly biased 'Nation'. The problem is that the EC wont let the government borrow the money it needs to pay the farmers.

However much has been syphoned off in corrupt payments, the scheme has let to financial stability for farmers (until now) and the Isaan economy is booming. Once the government is returned to power taxing the rich more and collecting taxes that are due (tax evasion here is worse than Greece) should seal the hole in the coffers.

The corruption is lamentable, but this scheme has resulted in a major redistribution of wealth. For too long the Isaan and Lanna have been the rice baskets for Bangkok and its source of cheap exploitable labour. This is changing and Sutheps patrons dont like it.

More hypocrisy from red sheeple.

So you want the EC to break the law to please your beloved PT, why should they ? The law is the law, it says they aren't allowed to do it and that is the way it is.

Yes it is sad the poor money grubbing idiots who believed the promises of snakes are getting bitrten on the ass, but it is a situation of PT's making. The buck stops with the proxy puppet in charge.

[northernjohn]

Remember that this article is from the hopelessly biased 'Nation'. The problem is that the EC wont let the government borrow the money it needs to pay the farmers.

However much has been syphoned off in corrupt payments, the scheme has let to financial stability for farmers (until now) and the Isaan economy is booming. Once the government is returned to power taxing the rich more and collecting taxes that are due (tax evasion here is worse than Greece) should seal the hole in the coffers.

The corruption is lamentable, but this scheme has resulted in a major redistribution of wealth. For too long the Isaan and Lanna have been the rice baskets for Bangkok and its source of cheap exploitable labour. This is changing and Sutheps patrons dont like it.

The money was due in October. The inability to pay it has nothing to do with the EC.

I will reprint a part of the article for you and wait for your denial as it is a fact and unacceptable to Shinawatra lovers.

As a result, the farmers who have pledged their paddy have not received any payment since October. When Premier Yingluck Shinawatra dissolved Parliament on December 9, She and her Cabinet forgot to approve a fresh budget for the rice pledge, which had been expanded due to failure of the Commerce Ministry to recycle the money back.

What has the EC got to do with that.

Do you not find it strange that no banks are interested in loaning them the money even the Government banks. If you were a rice farmer and had not been paid and found yourself having to borrow money and pay interest on it just to eat you would sing a different tune. Some of them have had to sell their equipment and their land. Three have committed suicide over it. How many are having to go to loan sharks as the banks are aware of the situation and fear not being repaid. How many have turned to loan sharks only to bee in worse trouble down the line.

What a wonderful government you are so proud of raise the minimum wages then don't even pay the bill to the farmer. But expect him to pay the new wages.

She and her Cabinet forgot to approve a fresh budget for the rice pledge, which had been expanded due to failure of the Commerce Ministry to recycle the money back

How convenient.

[smedly]

something i do not understand, actually the worldmarket price is about 14500BTH per ton. why cannot they sell rice and get the money back to the farmers?

because they don't have all the rice they claim is in storage even though it's been paid for, I'll estimate there's about 1/3 missing or never existed - is the penny dropping ?

[northernjohn]

Remember that this article is from the hopelessly biased 'Nation'. The problem is that the EC wont let the government borrow the money it needs to pay the farmers.

However much has been syphoned off in corrupt payments, the scheme has let to financial stability for farmers (until now) and the Isaan economy is booming. Once the government is returned to power taxing the rich more and collecting taxes that are due (tax evasion here is worse than Greece) should seal the hole in the coffers.

The corruption is lamentable, but this scheme has resulted in a major redistribution of wealth. For too long the Isaan and Lanna have been the rice baskets for Bangkok and its source of cheap exploitable labour. This is changing and Sutheps patrons dont like it.

I'm getting a bit tired of hearing this "Suthep's patrons don't like it". Whenever an accusation is made against the red shirts there is a flurry of messages saying "prove it", "where's the evidence?"

So ... where's the evidence? Name Suthep's patrons and produce the evidence that they are fundamentally opposed to social and economic development.

And don't bother with the predictable "if you don't know that, you don't know anything" type of response.

Love your post.

Was not sure if it would have been right to add in reform or if social and economic development covered it.

I think it did.

[bigbamboo]

Well judging from the response to millwall fan's rightly vilified post it seems he's right about one thing..... no one likes him!

Edited January 31, 2014 by bigbamboo

[wellwell]

Remember that this article is from the hopelessly biased 'Nation'. The problem is that the EC wont let the government borrow the money it needs to pay the farmers.

However much has been syphoned off in corrupt payments, the scheme has let to financial stability for farmers (until now) and the Isaan economy is booming. Once the government is returned to power taxing the rich more and collecting taxes that are due (tax evasion here is worse than Greece) should seal the hole in the coffers.

The corruption is lamentable, but this scheme has resulted in a major redistribution of wealth. For too long the Isaan and Lanna have been the rice baskets for Bangkok and its source of cheap exploitable labour. This is changing and Sutheps patrons dont like it.

Biggest load of tripe I have read for a long time.

The isaan economy is not booming, debt is booming.

The south has plenty of land to grow rice, they will just cut down on pineapple and coconuts and palm oil and stop supplying the north and boost rice production instead. It has more water than the south for a start.

The PTP are finished, get used to it. Taxes won't rise, if anything FORCE the Isaans and the Lannas to pay tax like the law says they should.... See as they have a booming economy and all that.

You make it sound like the north gets sod all from the south, go to your local market and look at all the produce from the south. Go to the local shops and see what comes from southern manufacturing. Where do all the pickups come from?

Look at all the jobs that are provided by southern industry, who is holding a gun to an isaan worker's head? They choose to go down there because they don't have the savvy to develop their on industrial infrastructure enough to provide sufficient employment.

Look at all the myanmar and Laos workers on the Isaam farms doing almost all the work for 80 baht a day and then you have the affront to be critical about the south.

Probably the most unintelligent post on TVF if you truly believe what you have typed here today in my opinion.

[tim armstrong]

Remember that this article is from the hopelessly biased 'Nation'. The problem is that the EC wont let the government borrow the money it needs to pay the farmers.

However much has been syphoned off in corrupt payments, the scheme has let to financial stability for farmers (until now) and the Isaan economy is booming. Once the government is returned to power taxing the rich more and collecting taxes that are due (tax evasion here is worse than Greece) should seal the hole in the coffers.

The corruption is lamentable, but this scheme has resulted in a major redistribution of wealth. For too long the Isaan and Lanna have been the rice baskets for Bangkok and its source of cheap exploitable labour. This is changing and Sutheps patrons dont like it.

The boom you mention to farmers is smoke and mirrors. Farmers are up to their eyeballs in debt , based on false promises from the government. More than 50% of the allocated money for rice pledging has disappeared ! There is no redistribution of wealth.

[Valentine]

Remember that this article is from the hopelessly biased 'Nation'. The problem is that the EC wont let the government borrow the money it needs to pay the farmers.

However much has been syphoned off in corrupt payments, the scheme has let to financial stability for farmers (until now) and the Isaan economy is booming. Once the government is returned to power taxing the rich more and collecting taxes that are due (tax evasion here is worse than Greece) should seal the hole in the coffers.

The corruption is lamentable, but this scheme has resulted in a major redistribution of wealth. For too long the Isaan and Lanna have been the rice baskets for Bangkok and its source of cheap exploitable labour. This is changing and Sutheps patrons dont like it.

Biggest load of tripe I have read for a long time.

The isaan economy is not booming, debt is booming.

The south has plenty of land to grow rice, they will just cut down on pineapple and coconuts and palm oil and stop supplying the north and boost rice production instead. It has more water than the south for a start.

The PTP are finished, get used to it. Taxes won't rise, if anything FORCE the Isaans and the Lannas to pay tax like the law says they should.... See as they have a booming economy and all that.

You make it sound like the north gets sod all from the south, go to your local market and look at all the produce from the south. Go to the local shops and see what comes from southern manufacturing. Where do all the pickups come from?

Look at all the jobs that are provided by southern industry, who is holding a gun to an isaan worker's head? They choose to go down there because they don't have the savvy to develop their on industrial infrastructure enough to provide sufficient employment.

Look at all the myanmar and Laos workers on the Isaam farms doing almost all the work for 80 baht a day and then you have the affront to be critical about the south.

Probably the most unintelligent post on TVF if you truly believe what you have typed here today in my opinion.

Millwall conveniently overlooks all the money sent back to Issan by the construction, service industry & daughters working in Bangkok & Phuket not to mention all the tax money from Phuket gets mainly redistributed elsewhere., I suppose lately most of that tax money has gone towards the rice scheme.

[Bakseeda]

Remember that this article is from the hopelessly biased 'Nation'. The problem is that the EC wont let the government borrow the money it needs to pay the farmers.

However much has been syphoned off in corrupt payments, the scheme has let to financial stability for farmers (until now) and the Isaan economy is booming. Once the government is returned to power taxing the rich more and collecting taxes that are due (tax evasion here is worse than Greece) should seal the hole in the coffers.

The corruption is lamentable, but this scheme has resulted in a major redistribution of wealth. For too long the Isaan and Lanna have been the rice baskets for Bangkok and its source of cheap exploitable labour. This is changing and Sutheps patrons dont like it.

How many people in Issan or Lanna have paid national insurance or tax... they are getting what they deserve for voting in a megalomaniac government, and do you really think that Thaksin gives a damn about the farmers apart from getting their votes.. Grow up..

[kingalfred]

The isaan minions will regret the day they after got near the Shinawatras, The will suffer for years in dire poverty and deservedly so.

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[GAS]

Central planning never works...NEVER!

We know that it always distorts the market, in the case of the Rice Scheme we now have poison rice as the farmers used way too much fertilizer and pesticide to try and get a big crop...this is truly tragic!

This kind of stuff always fails everywhere...just wait until the grand experiment the Fed in the US has undertaken comes to its logical conclusion?

Finally, raising taxes, especially something as evil as real estate tax (you don't own your home, you just rent it from the government) will stifle growth and just give ammo for future governments to do more harm.

The boom in Thailand is mostly debt based, it is not hard to see that...many Thai's have taken on massive debt loads to buy homes, cars and gadgets...don't forget this!!

ALL of these policies have been massive failures and distorted the free market...the first car buyer scam? Loaded the already packed streets with more cars driven by people who have no business being behind a wheel and pulled forward a bunch of demand. Staggeringly stupid...but we do it in the US as well...Cash for Clunkers, another major cluster...

[davejones]

What was that word again? Thaksonomics? Thaksinomics? I wonder if there'll be a Nobel prize for it.

Judging by some Nobel winners, there will indeed be a prize for it.

[davejones]

Remember that this article is from the hopelessly biased 'Nation'. The problem is that the EC wont let the government borrow the money it needs to pay the farmers.

No good blaming the EC. These payments were overdue long before an election was called. Government could also have arranged the borrowing before calling an election, but they didn't. Just face facts, this is a scheme that can't possibly work under any circumstances. What do you suggest, just borrowing more and more every year until the country is bankrupt? And why hasn't the missing money been reported to the police so that they can investigate where it went to. Many seem to think massive corruption is involved, but I don't see the government carrying out any investigation to find out what happened. Place the blame where it belongs.

[samuidave]

Remember that this article is from the hopelessly biased 'Nation'. The problem is that the EC wont let the government borrow the money it needs to pay the farmers.

However much has been syphoned off in corrupt payments, the scheme has let to financial stability for farmers (until now) and the Isaan economy is booming. Once the government is returned to power taxing the rich more and collecting taxes that are due (tax evasion here is worse than Greece) should seal the hole in the coffers.

The corruption is lamentable, but this scheme has resulted in a major redistribution of wealth. For too long the Isaan and Lanna have been the rice baskets for Bangkok and its source of cheap exploitable labour. This is changing and Sutheps patrons dont like it.

Sounds more like a planned economic shock so that everything can be bought up for pennies on the dollar. In fact this is exactly what the regime has been doing to Thailand since Thaksin stepped in. And it's wholly consistent with the economic over through of developing countries since it began in 1970 in South America.

And I wonder if Thaksin and his lynchmob at the CFR are in a position to gain? PTT. The Telecommunications. Next stop, every hardworking Thai driven deeper into debt through Thaksin's easy money plan. 30 baht health that covers aspirin. Join rice pledging and get a credit card! 100,000 baht tax rebate off your new truck! "You need to borrow money to get ahead. That's what I did":Thaksin quote

Thaksinomics is low scale bribery which lubricates the mind to accept the next 'too good to be true" crime wave: rice pledging scheme. It's the "spoon full of honey, to help the medicine go down" -- the medicine of increased debt resulting in everyone becoming full blown debt slaves. Houses gone. Farms gone. Kids in the city getting a 'real' education so they have zero life skills, with disintegration of the family in the process. 'Divide and conquer".

This is the history of capitalism with an 'individual best interest' theme which runs contrary to our natural state of being social creatures and reliant upon one another for survival.

[Thai at Heart]

Why should they be allowed to borrow more money? they have no means to repay it

I cannot go to the bank and borrow a million if I have no means to pay it back

I fell sorry for the farmers but the trusted a false prophet ... so mai pen rai to them

If anything DSI should freeze all the assets of Gov't officials and chuck the lot in jail

Anyone with half a brain knows the Gov't is culpable of mass gaft ... give their ill gotten gains to the farmers

The government has no means to repay the loan?

[Skywalker69]

That this government can't even pay the farmers for their rice makes the government's leader over in Dubai's claim that his govt sent money overseas to him to the tune of 30,000,000,000 in october last year even more sickening. Although if the farmers really do love him as much as his fans on this forum have us believe, maybe they are happy for him that his wealth has skyrocketed by 450% in the last year thanks to him trousering their rice money. No doubt a huge consolation to them. A less kind person could consider it as fools getting exactly what they deserve

Is there any foundation to your claims about Thaksin recieving 30 Billion Baht last year? Just wondering where you read that.

Yes there is.

http://www.forbes.com/profile/thaksin-shinawatra/

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Dogmatix]

Remember that this article is from the hopelessly biased 'Nation'. The problem is that the EC wont let the government borrow the money it needs to pay the farmers.

However much has been syphoned off in corrupt payments, the scheme has let to financial stability for farmers (until now) and the Isaan economy is booming. Once the government is returned to power taxing the rich more and collecting taxes that are due (tax evasion here is worse than Greece) should seal the hole in the coffers.

The corruption is lamentable, but this scheme has resulted in a major redistribution of wealth. For too long the Isaan and Lanna have been the rice baskets for Bangkok and its source of cheap exploitable labour. This is changing and Sutheps patrons dont like it.

Why didn't they pay in October?

The red shirts are telling the farmers that the problem is all caused by Suthep, even though his protests at Samsen railway station only started in a small way at the end of October when the government was already started to default on payment for the rice it was purchasing. Strange logic.

[tonneke breda]

The PT has just broken the backbone of their supporters and the economic backbone of the nation.

If there are clever people under the Democrats or newly to be formed political parties, i would advice them to buy a lot of rice seeds, fertilizer and other farmer supplies and help out as many farmers as you can help, to prove to this poor lads that they and the Bangkokians do care about them.

This wil also be for sure the last time that the Thaksin clan has the majority of the voters in some of the rural areas.

But if the rich, the elite, the Dem's and the reformers fail to give the farmers support now that they need it, there might be another PT- related group that will go running with this rural votes.

[Dogmatix]

From the beginning the rice pledging scheme was always the thing that had the greatest potential to bring down the PT government. At best it was a very expensive subsidy that would ultimately have become unsustainable. But due to unsuccessfully trying to speculate on the global rice price through hoarding, plus corruption, incompetent budgeting and cash flow management, it has turned into a more spectacular failure than anyone could have imagined. Thaksin, Yingluck, Boonsong, Kittirat et al please take a bow. Your achievement will be always be remembered.

Edited January 31, 2014 by Dogmatix

[ramrod711]

Can anyone tell me why the government doesn't accede to the farmers wishes and give them back their rice? It would seem to be good for the government, reduce rice stocks and debt all in one simple move. I'm not trying to be funny, i would like to know if there is a logical reason.