Brand New BMW 320i - needs new gearbox after 1 week.

[pedro01]

Some solid advice here - many thanks!

[frimu]

A German colleague recently bought a BMW at the German auto BMW outlet in Bang Na. Since then he is only reporting endless problems to me. They don't deliver cars on time. They need days for a service, that Honda made in just one day and so on.

My conclusion: Don't buy a BMW in Thailand. Too much fuss for way too much money invested.

[jacko45k]

I consider my almost 20 year old 220E Mercedes to be a sound and reliable car.

And where was that made?

[crazykopite]

Where did you buy it from and how much if you get no joy from them contact BMW direct

[Maseratimartin]

Shit happens!

A new gearbox will not make the car a fixed up car!

Generally you have not the right to ask for a new car and somehow it seems the dealer was treating you well. You have a loan car for free...what's the problem?

Even your car is only a few days old, the moment you drive it out of the gate of the dealer it lost a lot of worth...so it is not so easy as you would like it!

Just check your warranty regulations...

[thailampang2012]

In America is a "lemon law" for brand new cars, and it is respected without problems.

If you bring it more than 3 times to the dealer to repair any problem, and it is not resolved, you do have the legal right to get a new one. Look on the Internet about that. It is was myself, I will fight hard to get a new unit..or my money back.

A company like BMW probably will accept your request, but you may have to deal with its office in Germany, and have all the service records well documented.

Edited February 25, 2014 by thailampang2012

[rotary]

Gotta love that German quality! Buy a Honda .

Get a refund on that BMW........................I was thinking more like buy a FORD

Edited February 25, 2014 by rotary

[pedro01]

A German colleague recently bought a BMW at the German auto BMW outlet in Bang Na. Since then he is only reporting endless problems to me. They don't deliver cars on time. They need days for a service, that Honda made in just one day and so on.

My conclusion: Don't buy a BMW in Thailand. Too much fuss for way too much money invested.

Service times are high but mostly because they give you 6 years of free servicing. That makes them extremely busy.

As for Camry, Accorde et al - tried them & it was like steering a boat. Really horrible cars to drive. I've been driving SUVs here for 15 years and the reason for buying this car was mostly because i wanted something that didnt steer like a fish.

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[bangkokpoppys]

Thinking a couple of things here:

1. The local Thai branch didn't make the car and will also want to see a happy customer.

2. This kind of catastrophic fault will be reported to Germany HQ as they are infrequent.

3. BMW is a quality registered company meaning it is compliant with a number of ISO standards. The basis of any quality system is that any written a complaints must be recorded and responded to. May be useful to find the QA Directora name in Germany and write to him a registered letter and copy the local branch.

4. Only a detailed knowledge of your model's design will allow for accurate postulation on causes...all else will be noise for you.

5. The Service manager in most euro car companies tend to be top notch, as they are the "glue" that keep the workshop operating. Usually the best trained. They are your best trained and your best friend.

6. Make sure you are confident in the explanation of the root cause. Keep rejecting their suggestions until you are completely satisfied.

I am sure that you will solve all problems and get an answer you are going to be happy with and eventually enjoy your beaut car.

[8OA8]

I'd be okay with the new gearbox, at least then you know that whatever the issue was will have been resolved.

Just an FYI, one day I went to collect my German brand car from the dealership after having a regular service carried out and I was asked to sign the various invoices including one with a higher than normal price (Baht 70 or 80k) which was put in front of me for signing, the service people explained that they had carried out a fairly large job on the SCB braking system, but that I didn't need to pay anything as they had received instructions from Germany to replace the parts. I hadn't mentioned that there was any problems with the brakes. This was something serious which would have been a recall notice in the West, but carried out quietly in Thailand.

[konfuzed]

Gotta love that German quality! Buy a Honda .

now you are having a laugh...

Honda service is the worst i have come across... i've been given back cars with chunks missing from tyres and told they were "safe to drive" as they had to order the tyres which took 3-4 weeks...

The GPS on the latest accord is terrible offering up recommendations in Singapore or Indonesia rather than closer locations...

i will have to be persuaded very greatly to have another Honda...

and as for Toyota, i want the car i order, not the one that they've decided "not to sell" to others... look for posts on here about people being called to pickup their deposit-paid cars only to arrive and find out that its been sold before they arrived...

[Estrada]

Had a similar problem with the Ford Granada in the UK when it first came out with ABS brakes. The day after delivery I got to the first set of traffic lights and the brakes failed fortunately wasn't killed. I went back to the Main Ford Dealer to complain and they said there were no spare ABS units in the UK and I had to wait 3-4 weeks for a unit to come from Germany. Also they would not give me a loan car. I suggested that they took one off the production line which they refused and then I demanded my money back in writing stating that the car was "Not fit for purpose". Quickly they raced around and got me a replacement unit off another new car.

Only problem you may have is if the car is actually a grey import and not from a BMW appointed dealer.

[monkeycountry]

Um, it all seems rather strange.

The only way I can see that engine coolant could get into the transmission is if somebody accidentally poured coolant into the transmission oil filler, mistaking it for the coolant reservoir.

Otherwise, there's no physical connection between the engine cooling system and the transmission that would allow the coolant to get there. And I know of no design that has engine coolant linked in anyway to the internals of a transmission.

If the above scenario is a possibility, I'd be keeping rather quiet about demands from BMW as they may suggest any warranty is void if somebody poured coolant into the transmission.

Head gasket blow on BL transverse engines dumps water into the trans. Been there.....

So if that's the case I assume BMW will be replacing the head gasket, but the OP made no mention of that. The OP also made no mention of oil getting into the engine oil and sludging, as would be the case of a blown head gasket. This would be as big an issue re the warranty claim as the buggered transmission. If not bigger, considering potential head warping and internal engine damage from the coolant diluting the engine oil etc.

I understand what you're saying Transam - but I still say either the analysis by the BMW service people is potentially incomplete/wrong (as no mention of a blown head gasket was mentioned) and that simply replacing the transmission won't solve the root problem. Or the coolant was accidentally pured down the wrong hole when the OP did the initial top-up of the coolant.

Exactly HOW the fluid got into the tranny is the issue. Bolting on a new tranny just doesn't seem to address the full issue.

"Exactly HOW the fluid got into the tranny is the issue. Bolting on a new tranny just doesn't seem to address the full issue."

Are we still discussing cars?

[OMGImInPattaya]

Should have bought a Toyota. Maybe the dealer will swap you even for a new Camry.

One assumes, seeing as he paid a lot of money for a BMW, that he doesn't want to drive the dullest car in the world.

Yes, it's so dull when you stick in the key and turn over the engine and the car just starts and goes. I'll take that any day over these fussy and touchy European Marques.

[Litlos]

Just an additional thought. It may be in your best interests to work through this with the local dealer as much as possible, and only escalate if you have problems. They are giving you a loan car so and direct phone numbers so off to a good start. If you go over the head of the local guy who may be trying to do the right thing he will lose a bit of face and remember you in a less than positive manner. Not saying go soft, just only escalate as required and you may actually have the dealer saying quietly to you to escalate if he is getting nowhere.

Just with 6 years free servicing I would not want to be remembered as the unnecessarily awkward customer. Things like service booking not available when you want it, the worst mechanic put on the job, return delayed till 5PM peak hour traffic to inconvenience you etc. All tricks of the dealers in Australia and presumably the same here plus a few local variations.

Cheers

[Adeeos]

Leaking freeze plug in back of block, where it mates to the transmission,,,,, Freeze plugs are pressed with a sealing compound, into various location in a block, so if the antifreeze/coolant isn't the right mix,, and freezes,, the plugs will pop out, rather than the expanding, freezing coolant, won't crack the block,,,

[skorchio]

The new car is <deleted> inside a week, demand a new one or your oney back. Do not accept a refitted gearbox, this is nonsense. Keep the courtesy car and tell them a new one os the only acceptable option. If you have problems, mention that you will speak directly to Munich. If that doesnt work, threaten legal action. Thats what I would do ..... probably a 4 million baht car, from a world leading maker. This is unacceptable. My 2 bahts worth

[RayHaas]

Office of the Consumer Protection Board

They deal with many cases involving new cars due to the amount of money involved.

There are law firms specialising in consumer protection law that can help you too.

Thanks! Will give them a call - seems they have a hotline.

No need to get a law firm... By law you can return anything for full refund within 7 days. But they kept you from that period and decided at day 9 to inform you about your gearbox. NOt sure of you bought the car from a legit dealer or from a grey import dealer though.

Just go to the consumer protection yourself. Leave the car at BMW, refuse to take it with you and explain the situation to the BMW management. Also write to BMW in Germany and explain the situation. Tell them that you will go to the consumer protection as you had problems from day 1 with it and the car is not even 1 month old.

[realenglish1]

After all is said and done contact BMW in Germany and talk to them I am sure they will do whatever it takes to assist This way you cut out the cumbersome conversation with the local dealer and get to the root of the probem

Make sure you have the vin number when you talk to them .

[I knew this would happen]

Gotta love that German quality! Buy a Honda .

Well thats a shame for BMW, but this can happen to anything made by humans. The OP won the lottery and got one of the few cars that fails after one or two weeks.

And as a German I love German cars. They are great to drive, have nice engines and are great to look at. There´s only one problem, the qualitiy is going downwards........

But who´s to blame for that? After all the shareholders want profit, more and more every year. So everything is build to a price, sometimes I think we´ve reache a point were cars start to get worse instead of better. There is a lot of great tech and innovation in the German cars, but I doubt everything is build to the specs. the engineers would like to see it. If there is a screw that is 1 cent cheaper but only half as strong then the management will always decide for the cheap way.

Of course a 20 year old 2.0 liter engine and gear box in the camry is more reliable...........................

[unanimosity]

Gotta love that German quality! Buy a Honda .

Amen, BMW stands for "Buy a Matching Wrecker." A friend in the car biz went through 5 transmissions in his 7 series Beemer and BMW refused to honor their warranty after the third, so he was out of pocket for the last two. Anybody that buys a BMW needs their wallet examined, not to mention their head. That said, not all German autos should be held as equally shoddy. It isn't a German things, it is a QC thing, or the lack of it.

Edited February 25, 2014 by unanimosity

[I knew this would happen]

Gotta love that German quality! Buy a Honda .

right you are! it's a well known fact that the gearbox in every German car breaks down after 9 days

It´s true!! I´ve had 4 BMW´s, each driven about 3 years. Makes about 12 years (4380days) of BMW ownership. During that time they replaced my gearbox 486 times

And even if my gearbox would brake every 9 days, Honda and Toyota?? Nope, never. I´ll buy one when they start to make cars, not transport devices with wheels.

Edited February 25, 2014 by I knew this would happen

[Anon999]

Um, it all seems rather strange.

The only way I can see that engine coolant could get into the transmission is if somebody accidentally poured coolant into the transmission oil filler, mistaking it for the coolant reservoir.

Otherwise, there's no physical connection between the engine cooling system and the transmission that would allow the coolant to get there. And I know of no design that has engine coolant linked in anyway to the internals of a transmission.

If the above scenario is a possibility, I'd be keeping rather quiet about demands from BMW as they may suggest any warranty is void if somebody poured coolant into the transmission.

It was really odd to me too. Although the last car I actually repaired myself was an Austin Metro in 1986.

First off - the coolant only seemed to really disappear en-masse when exiting a car park with a steep downward off ramp. So this was dependent on the angle of the car. The three times it occurred were on an off ramp waiting for traffic to clear and then the light came on.

Also - when they took it away the second time, I checked the driveway after they took it away and there was an amount of fluid on the drive that was white in color and thick in consistency whereas the coolant was blue and watery in consistence.

I doubt anyone poured coolant into the transmission as we got it straight from the shop and the issue first occurred in 2 days when no-one had even lifted the bonnet. We stopped at a service station and called BMW - it was the guys at the service station that topped up the coolant and it was obviously going in the right place.

Also odd that the gear issue wasn't considered until my wife called on the second day of them having the car for the second time. It was almost an aside that we asked them to check why the gear change had been so clunky (since day 1) relative to the loan car. It wasn't more than an hour before they called us and told us about the gearbox.

They found that issue very quickly indeed once we told them the symptoms.

Thick whitish fluid is almost certainly oil and water mixed. How that occurred without manual intervention is very odd and dropping fluid on the driveway is also abnormal, maybe the gearbox was overfull from the added coolant and it was being ejected out of a breather!

[mortenaa]

The 320i has an auto-box from ZF. It's very reliable, and BMW uses it on all models now. Even on some of the M-models.

The 320i is assembled in Thailand. So my guess it's something wrong happened in the assembly line.

I would demand a new car as well. Actually If you don't want get the feedback you want from your dealer, I would head over to BMW at the 4 seasons in Wireless Road, and have a chat with them.

I bought a few cars from Bmw Thailand, and had a great experience with both quality and service.

[falangadang]

Should have bought a Toyota. Maybe the dealer will swap you even for a new Camry.

Depends which dealer you bought from.

We bought a new Toyota from the dealer near Airport Plaza in Chiangmai z couple of years ago and after a couple of months it got a very minor scratch on the rear side which was covered under insurance so we took it to them. Really, a buff-able surface scratch that could've been fixed in an hour or two max.

After waiting nearly 2 hours they told us we needed to leave the car with them for a week (yes 7 days). I freaked out and asked to see the head guy (later I discovered he was the main problem). He eventually came out and assured us that this scratch was more complicated than it looked (total BS) and that he would definitely need it in the workshop for 5 days!

Needless to say we took the car elsewhere for service (Toyota Hangdong) who are excellent and leagues ahead of their city cousins. We like Toyota but will NEVER buy from that city dealer ever again! Som Nam Na to them!

In the end, the buff-able scratch was fixed in a single morning while we did a bit of shopping. A perfect and undetectable repair!

[mortenaa]

Gotta love that German quality! Buy a Honda .

Amen, BMW stands for "Buy a Matching Wrecker." A friend in the car biz went through 5 transmissions in his 7 series Beemer and BMW refused to honor their warranty after the third, so he was out of pocket for the last two. Anybody that buys a BMW needs their wallet examined, not to mention their head. That said, not all German autos should be held as equally shoddy. It isn't a German things, it is a QC thing, or the lack of it.

I guess "your friend" goes a head of statistics. Bmw score highest in customer satisfaction feedback in the world. In Thailand, they offer a much better warranty than any other brand - including free service. You can drive around with peace of mind for 6 years.

[Doc46]

The only way water can get in a auto transmission is via the oil cooler tank in the bottom of the radiator,that will explain the loss of coolant (going into the gearbox via a leek in the gearbox oil cooler) New radiator + new gearbox is required.+ cleaning the whole cooling system.

[wjhall]

BMW and Mercedes way overpriced here due to the import tax. Cannot understand why anyone buys here especially a Farang. Wasted your money...should have bought an Accord or a Camry for less than half the price of your German rubbish!!!

[I knew this would happen]

BMW and Mercedes way overpriced here due to the import tax. Cannot understand why anyone buys here especially a Farang. Wasted your money...should have bought an Accord or a Camry for less than half the price of your German rubbish!!!

German rubbish? Maybe the OP could try a British car.......oh wait!

Btw, seriously, the ZF gearboxes are great. There is only one fault with the BMW maintenance policy. BMW says they are maintenance free, but ZF says that at least the oil should be changed after 100.000km. In this case there was a manufacturing error, bad luck and very annoying indeed. Could have happend with any product and brand.

Edited February 25, 2014 by I knew this would happen

[wvavin]

There is nothing you can do as you have taken delivery unless you are protected with "Lemon Law" in certain countries. The usual practice by manufacturers is that they would offer to replace a "brand new" gearbox for your car without any charges and to pacify you further, a courtesy would come along too. From my past experience, BMW always has this gearbox issues regardless of which models. Well, if you like the brand so be it. Best of Luck!