Abhisit to meet varied groups seeking way out of political crisis

[Robby nz]

Lies, ignorance and verbose.

It is a lie to say that Abhisit has been 'very much instrumental in affecting this whole mess...'. The whole mess was started by PTP's 'bring Thaksin home' amnesty bill triggering mass rallies, Suthep's various groups and the government resigning without first ensuring that money was available for the farmers.

It is just stupid to expect him to release his reform proposals as, no matter what they are, will not be acceptable to PTP. Suthep has proposed a number of reforms that even some PTP/red shirt supporters on this forum have agreed with but the party can't even allow the reform word to be mentioned without condemnation (or election this, election that, we win we do what we like, etc, etc).

While it is true that the Democrat party did little to combat corruption while in power, they didn't make it worse and the scale never reached the Thaksin heights. But they did have a bill prepared to tax land, particularly unused land. This bill was quickly dropped by Yingluck (no doubt on bro's orders).

One can criticise Abhisit for various things like being too mild a leader, but small minds attributing (inventing) things to him that have nothing to do with him is nothing more than lies.

Well Kunken it is not true to say the Dems didn't do much to combat corruption while they were in office.

For a start the ratified the UN convention against corruption in 2011 which had been sitting on the table for quite some years.

They also got corruption heading down in spite of having to take on the parasite parties in order to make up a Govt.

Parties which were and still are only there to get as much out of it as possible and will go with whoever offers the most.

I will post the graph (again) which shows clearly the slight drop in the Dem years and the spike during the PT administration.

Zero of course being least corrupt.

[DirtFarmer]

Small minds...? thank you.. unfortunately we cannot all have the big mind that you proffer you have...Cheers

BTW - no I'm not arrogant enough to claim a 'big mind', just a normal one.

You continue to blame Abhisit for being responsible for the current mess when it is clearly PTP (with assistance from Suthep) who are the ones to blame. You can't even bring yourself to mention the amnesty bill which started the crisis.

Abhisit certainly has been against the PTP mob - that's very much an opposition's job. He has been under fire from the relentless Thaksin fuelled DSI over a number of cases - even one as puerile as using electronic funds transfer rather than a cheque. It has all been a failed attempt to get him to submit to the amnesty which, to his great credit, he refused to do. That it has made him oppose PTP even more is hardly surprising.

That the solution to the crisis will be found behing closed doors - I agree with that. As far as web sites with opinion is concerned, many are highly biased, often with scant knowledge of Thai politics and some with agendas that provide more propaganda than fact. I ignore them now after seeing some of the tripe that they spout.

You say that the wealth of the top 10 members of the Democrat party increased exponentially while in power. I'm going to call this another lie as you have made no attempt to back this up. Proof and I'll apologise.

The article was not 'invented by the Nation as it was similarly published in the Bangkok Post. Yes, it had nothing much new but it is as much news as yet another tissue of lies from Thaksin about giving up politics.

Unfortunately for PTP and yourself, the genie is out of the bottle. Suthep has managed to raise the corruption issue into a battle between those who want to do something to abate it and those who want to continue ripping off the country's wealth. Again blaming Abhisit is a straw man argument - manufacture all sorts of crap against him and then shoot it down. Dishonest argument.

I am not just talking about websites I am talking about books histories of Thailand etc. including this one authored by Thais

Corruption and Democracy in Thailand

http://www.silkwormbooks.com/each_titles/e_thailand/corruption_6.htm

It is a great read.. first published in the 90's and then re issued shortly after 2000

with regards to Abhisets MP corruption and MPS wealth increase directly reference [210] at

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Premiership_of_Abhisit_Vejjajiva

Lots to read both above and below that..

Sorry to see you are snagged on the amnesty bill issue.. it provides great fodder for the current uprising but Abhisits inability to serve up anything other than fluff goes way back beyond that...to the Chuan Leekpai Suthep mess... his mentor I may add. and advisor to the Dems...and just plainly that no matter what they offer up as reforms it will not happen... there are too many people affected by it...even if they tried it would be futile

Try and google some other books on Client-patronage relationships to Thai politics... that will help also... some of us do not rely on just "websites" or colored Thai Media for our background...

Sorry to see you are still stuck on the PTP VS Dems so hard that you refuse to look a little bit higher on the rung... google the 10 wealthies Thai Families.. their relationship to Thai Politics, the Generals the Junta appointed Commisions and "independent agencies... search these people out it is a long exhaustive process but might get you to the point where you stop lumping everybody who is critical of something you are not into a colored shirt.. I am not a PTP supporter.. nor a Dem supporter... I just am not a fan of Abhisit either.. nor am I a fan of the old school patronage client relationship in Thai governments in place today and all previous years since 1932 sin nam jai (spelling?) very old school .. the addition of adding 20-30 percent to any govt contract for facilitation by certain individuals...which incidentally rose to almost 40% it has been pointed out during Abhisit's term in office...at any rate... lot of reading to do and stop with the inference that I support any Thai Political faction .....pure schoolyard tripe

Contrary to your inference, I do know a bit about the wealthy families and the army and the commissions, some of which pre-date the last coup despite your attempt to denigrate them.

What is clear is that you make accusations and refuse to back them up which tends to point at a very skewed view of That politics. Also here you are making up a case against Abhisit and then denying that you have any political bias regarding Thailand. It's far too much to swallow given that you have only targeted one side of the political make-up here.

'rose to 40%, it has been pointed out'? By who or is this just another made-up piece of propaganda from the side that you are reluctant to criticise. I respond to posts and pay attention to the content which tends to reveal much more than any pretence of fairness. It is pure tripe & dishonest to claim that your posts in this thread are anything but biased diatribes against one person.

Ignore the links I provided above that you asked for... shows the kind of research you do... and continue your schoolyard garbage at will. If you bothered to reach outside the press provided here you would see a lot more without tinting things, clearly that is to much to ask ... if you think for one minute that full story from the Nation or even the BK Post ( though a bit less jaded) you are truly blinkered... here's another website... and report done in 2004 .. usually I respond or comment to what the OP is and I'll leave it at that.. you sir clearly cannot see the forrest from the trees..but nice try..

http://aceproject.org/ero-en/regions/asia/TH/Corruption_in_Thailand.pdf

http://assassinationthaksin.wordpress.com/2013/03/26/thaksin-corruption-what-transparency-international-says-vs-what-elite-thai-establishment-says/

Edited April 25, 2014 by DirtFarmer

[tezzainoz]

A few days ago he feared for his life at the EC meeting. Now he announce a date, time and place for a meeting with the permanent secretary of the Justice Ministry. Not a smart move for a man who believes he has a contact out on his life. Unless the man is lying about the attempt on his life.

Or maybe he has decided to put the good of Thailand before himself

wow if only you hero Yingluck had the mind to do the same

good proof to show who loves thailand the most you have proven

well done

[Lite Beer]

Panthongtae scoffs at Abhisit's call for peace

BANGKOK: -- Former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra's son, Panthongtae, scoffed at Democrat Party leader Abhisit Vejjajiva's call for talks to end the political crisis.

In a post on Facebook, Panthongtae, who is also known as Oak, said Abhisit's video clip seeking negotiations "made him sick".

"It is the Democrats who created problems for the country by opposing the elections," the post read.

"I happen to have found a clip that is much better and more democratic - it was produced by famous Nuttawut Saikuar wearing a tie and white shirt and talking like Abhisit, but better.

"Let's have a contest to make similar clips proposing exits for the country. Dress neatly, fix your hair and face to look good like him.

"We will have an award for any clip that is better than Abhisit's," the post read.

-- The Nation 2014-04-25

[khunken]

BTW - no I'm not arrogant enough to claim a 'big mind', just a normal one.

You continue to blame Abhisit for being responsible for the current mess when it is clearly PTP (with assistance from Suthep) who are the ones to blame. You can't even bring yourself to mention the amnesty bill which started the crisis.

Abhisit certainly has been against the PTP mob - that's very much an opposition's job. He has been under fire from the relentless Thaksin fuelled DSI over a number of cases - even one as puerile as using electronic funds transfer rather than a cheque. It has all been a failed attempt to get him to submit to the amnesty which, to his great credit, he refused to do. That it has made him oppose PTP even more is hardly surprising.

That the solution to the crisis will be found behing closed doors - I agree with that. As far as web sites with opinion is concerned, many are highly biased, often with scant knowledge of Thai politics and some with agendas that provide more propaganda than fact. I ignore them now after seeing some of the tripe that they spout.

You say that the wealth of the top 10 members of the Democrat party increased exponentially while in power. I'm going to call this another lie as you have made no attempt to back this up. Proof and I'll apologise.

The article was not 'invented by the Nation as it was similarly published in the Bangkok Post. Yes, it had nothing much new but it is as much news as yet another tissue of lies from Thaksin about giving up politics.

Unfortunately for PTP and yourself, the genie is out of the bottle. Suthep has managed to raise the corruption issue into a battle between those who want to do something to abate it and those who want to continue ripping off the country's wealth. Again blaming Abhisit is a straw man argument - manufacture all sorts of crap against him and then shoot it down. Dishonest argument.

I am not just talking about websites I am talking about books histories of Thailand etc. including this one authored by Thais

Corruption and Democracy in Thailand

http://www.silkwormbooks.com/each_titles/e_thailand/corruption_6.htm

It is a great read.. first published in the 90's and then re issued shortly after 2000

with regards to Abhisets MP corruption and MPS wealth increase directly reference [210] at

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Premiership_of_Abhisit_Vejjajiva

Lots to read both above and below that..

Sorry to see you are snagged on the amnesty bill issue.. it provides great fodder for the current uprising but Abhisits inability to serve up anything other than fluff goes way back beyond that...to the Chuan Leekpai Suthep mess... his mentor I may add. and advisor to the Dems...and just plainly that no matter what they offer up as reforms it will not happen... there are too many people affected by it...even if they tried it would be futile

Try and google some other books on Client-patronage relationships to Thai politics... that will help also... some of us do not rely on just "websites" or colored Thai Media for our background...

Sorry to see you are still stuck on the PTP VS Dems so hard that you refuse to look a little bit higher on the rung... google the 10 wealthies Thai Families.. their relationship to Thai Politics, the Generals the Junta appointed Commisions and "independent agencies... search these people out it is a long exhaustive process but might get you to the point where you stop lumping everybody who is critical of something you are not into a colored shirt.. I am not a PTP supporter.. nor a Dem supporter... I just am not a fan of Abhisit either.. nor am I a fan of the old school patronage client relationship in Thai governments in place today and all previous years since 1932 sin nam jai (spelling?) very old school .. the addition of adding 20-30 percent to any govt contract for facilitation by certain individuals...which incidentally rose to almost 40% it has been pointed out during Abhisit's term in office...at any rate... lot of reading to do and stop with the inference that I support any Thai Political faction .....pure schoolyard tripe

Contrary to your inference, I do know a bit about the wealthy families and the army and the commissions, some of which pre-date the last coup despite your attempt to denigrate them.

What is clear is that you make accusations and refuse to back them up which tends to point at a very skewed view of That politics. Also here you are making up a case against Abhisit and then denying that you have any political bias regarding Thailand. It's far too much to swallow given that you have only targeted one side of the political make-up here.

'rose to 40%, it has been pointed out'? By who or is this just another made-up piece of propaganda from the side that you are reluctant to criticise. I respond to posts and pay attention to the content which tends to reveal much more than any pretence of fairness. It is pure tripe & dishonest to claim that your posts in this thread are anything but biased diatribes against one person.

Ignore the links I provided above that you asked for... shows the kind of research you do... and continue your schoolyard garbage at will. If you bothered to reach outside the press provided here you would see a lot more without tinting things, clearly that is to much to ask ... if you think for one minute that full story from the Nation or even the BK Post ( though a bit less jaded) you are truly blinkered... here's another website... and report done in 2004 .. usually I respond or comment to what the OP is and I'll leave it at that.. you sir clearly cannot see the forrest from the trees..but nice try..

http://aceproject.org/ero-en/regions/asia/TH/Corruption_in_Thailand.pdf

http://assassinationthaksin.wordpress.com/2013/03/26/thaksin-corruption-what-transparency-international-says-vs-what-elite-thai-establishment-says/

I ignored the first link as it is hardly relevant to the present day or even century. I waded through the second link and could find nothing relevant to your claim. Again you make incorrect assumptions.

No I won't bother with any more of your links as they are either irrelevant or as biased as you yourself are.

If you want to use links to back up your claims, add the relevant quote as well as the link. Save sending (deliberately?) someone on a wild goose chase.

One wood I can clearly see is your disingenious and failed effort to claim fairness. You yourself seem to spend more time among the trees of web sites that too often are constructed (or added to in Wikis case) by those with an agenda.

Anyway, good day to you.

[DirtFarmer]

I am not just talking about websites I am talking about books histories of Thailand etc. including this one authored by Thais

Corruption and Democracy in Thailand

http://www.silkwormbooks.com/each_titles/e_thailand/corruption_6.htm

It is a great read.. first published in the 90's and then re issued shortly after 2000

with regards to Abhisets MP corruption and MPS wealth increase directly reference [210] at

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Premiership_of_Abhisit_Vejjajiva

Lots to read both above and below that..

Sorry to see you are snagged on the amnesty bill issue.. it provides great fodder for the current uprising but Abhisits inability to serve up anything other than fluff goes way back beyond that...to the Chuan Leekpai Suthep mess... his mentor I may add. and advisor to the Dems...and just plainly that no matter what they offer up as reforms it will not happen... there are too many people affected by it...even if they tried it would be futile

Try and google some other books on Client-patronage relationships to Thai politics... that will help also... some of us do not rely on just "websites" or colored Thai Media for our background...

Sorry to see you are still stuck on the PTP VS Dems so hard that you refuse to look a little bit higher on the rung... google the 10 wealthies Thai Families.. their relationship to Thai Politics, the Generals the Junta appointed Commisions and "independent agencies... search these people out it is a long exhaustive process but might get you to the point where you stop lumping everybody who is critical of something you are not into a colored shirt.. I am not a PTP supporter.. nor a Dem supporter... I just am not a fan of Abhisit either.. nor am I a fan of the old school patronage client relationship in Thai governments in place today and all previous years since 1932 sin nam jai (spelling?) very old school .. the addition of adding 20-30 percent to any govt contract for facilitation by certain individuals...which incidentally rose to almost 40% it has been pointed out during Abhisit's term in office...at any rate... lot of reading to do and stop with the inference that I support any Thai Political faction .....pure schoolyard tripe

Contrary to your inference, I do know a bit about the wealthy families and the army and the commissions, some of which pre-date the last coup despite your attempt to denigrate them.

What is clear is that you make accusations and refuse to back them up which tends to point at a very skewed view of That politics. Also here you are making up a case against Abhisit and then denying that you have any political bias regarding Thailand. It's far too much to swallow given that you have only targeted one side of the political make-up here.

'rose to 40%, it has been pointed out'? By who or is this just another made-up piece of propaganda from the side that you are reluctant to criticise. I respond to posts and pay attention to the content which tends to reveal much more than any pretence of fairness. It is pure tripe & dishonest to claim that your posts in this thread are anything but biased diatribes against one person.

Ignore the links I provided above that you asked for... shows the kind of research you do... and continue your schoolyard garbage at will. If you bothered to reach outside the press provided here you would see a lot more without tinting things, clearly that is to much to ask ... if you think for one minute that full story from the Nation or even the BK Post ( though a bit less jaded) you are truly blinkered... here's another website... and report done in 2004 .. usually I respond or comment to what the OP is and I'll leave it at that.. you sir clearly cannot see the forrest from the trees..but nice try..

http://aceproject.org/ero-en/regions/asia/TH/Corruption_in_Thailand.pdf

http://assassinationthaksin.wordpress.com/2013/03/26/thaksin-corruption-what-transparency-international-says-vs-what-elite-thai-establishment-says/

I ignored the first link as it is hardly relevant to the present day or even century. I waded through the second link and could find nothing relevant to your claim. Again you make incorrect assumptions.

No I won't bother with any more of your links as they are either irrelevant or as biased as you yourself are.

If you want to use links to back up your claims, add the relevant quote as well as the link. Save sending (deliberately?) someone on a wild goose chase.

One wood I can clearly see is your disingenious and failed effort to claim fairness. You yourself seem to spend more time among the trees of web sites that too often are constructed (or added to in Wikis case) by those with an agenda.

Anyway, good day to you.

Of course they are relvant as are others written by other Thais because they provide the backdrop for what is happening currently...

your refusal to address the age old underlying factors only displays the shallowness you are limited by in trying to understand the game that is being played out... now If you had a more un biased agenda and an understanding of perspective.. taught by History which here is clearly repeated over and over again in the LOS via the same tactics just different faces you may think differently... on second thought naw... don't waste your time... you are stuck in a varry narrow Soi and prefer to stay there I wish you all the best seeya in a coupla years after your One Trick Pony fails the hurdle again... meanwhile I offer additional links to provide you avenues of genuine research to do... in case you may be interested I enjoyed reading most of them...Cheers!

A History of Thailand, Thaksin:

http://books.google.co.th/books?id=TEdueeBj1H0C&pg=PA269&lpg=PA269&dq=A+History+of+Thailand,+Thaksin:&source=bl&ots=Gt0Z6mPVlL&sig=oij5Jb90RzOl76L6QecWPnozPr8&hl=en&sa=X&ei=9kNaU760Dsb9rAertYHQDg&ved=0CDoQ6AEwAg#v=onepage&q=A%20History%20of%20Thailand%2C%20Thaksin%3A&f=false

Thailand: Economy and Politics

Myths and Realities: The Democratization of Thai Politics (Kyoto Area Studies on Asia)

http://www.amazon.com/Myths-Realities-Democratization-Politics-Studies/dp/1920901418/ref=pd_sim_sbs_b_3?ie=UTF8&refRID=1MTGAWWBKFCTZ3S1ZEYE

Thaispring

June 3, 2013 · Bangkok ·

Brief details of corruption under the abhisit regime

The Abhisit government was charged in several cases of corruption, particularly related to spending under the Thai Khem Khaeng economic stimulus program. After much public pressure, Abhisit appointed Banlu Siripanich head of an investigative committee to investigate allegations within the Ministry of Public Health. Banlu's committee's findings included: bribery by a supplier of ambulances; irregularities in the purchase of UV fans; overspending on construction of building; inflated prices for machines and equipment. Public Health Minister and Democrat MP Witthaya Kaewparadai, Deputy Minister from Bhumjaithai Party Manit Nop-amornbodi (who was in charge of the projects) resigned due to the scandal.

Abhisit's Social Development and Human Security Minister also resigned due to a corruption scandal. In addition, Apirak Kosayodhin, the Democrat Party Governor of Bangkok, were indicted by the National Counter Corruption Commission on 11 November 2008 for corruption in the purchase of 6.6 billion baht in fire-fighting equipment. Apirak resigned from his office on 13 November.

Flood victims in Phatthalung province became nauseous after eating canned fish products which were donated through the Social Development and Human Security Ministry. Opposition party spokesman, Prompong Nopparit accused Democrat Minister Vitoon Nambutr of corruption in the procurement of the fish. Democrat Minister Vitoon Nambutr insisted there was no irregularities and that the ministry did not procure them for distribution. However, he later resigned to take responsibility for this situation

Abhisit's government came under accusations that the 26 billion baht Sufficiency Economy Community project was tainted with corruption. Abhisit replied to the accusations by suggesting that the "alleged malpractice might have originated during the period when the office was in charge of managing small, medium, and large (SML) enterprises…. The SML project was created by the Thaksin Shinawatra government."

Democrat MPs saw their personal net worth increase by 4.3 billion baht while Abhisit was Prime Minister. Democrat financier Kalaya Sophonphanit's personal wealth increased by 422 million baht, while the wealth of MPs Wilat Chanpitak and Chalermlak Kebsap increased by 303 and 302 million baht respectively. 10 out of 10 MPs whose wealth increased the most during Abhisit's premiership were all Democrat MPs

Nothing you say contradicts anything I have posted Abhisit as as useful to the Thai Nation as Nipples on a turtle... your inference that Wiki is less than accurate flies full in the face of reality but never mind clearly you are too lazy and self satisfied with your piety to broaden your horizons... and that is your choice... and your right.. my opinions are just that...mine.. but I rarely make them known unless I have at least done some homework. Something that I am not afraid to do because I do not know it all and am eager to know more... but certainly am not learning anything here with you

Pasuk Phongpaichit

is probably one of the most well written and respect Professors at Chula and can hardly be ignored having documented a very wide spectrum of Thai Politics and has an irrefutable level of expertise... I defer to her.. you can google her name and check her out..

Books by Pasuk Phongpaichit

http://www.amazon.com/Pasuk-Phongpaichit/e/B001IO9SWS/ref=ntt_dp_epwbk_0

Edited April 25, 2014 by DirtFarmer

[Robby nz]

Panthongtae scoffs at Abhisit's call for peace

BANGKOK: -- Former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra's son, Panthongtae, scoffed at Democrat Party leader Abhisit Vejjajiva's call for talks to end the political crisis.

In a post on Facebook, Panthongtae, who is also known as Oak, said Abhisit's video clip seeking negotiations "made him sick".

"It is the Democrats who created problems for the country by opposing the elections," the post read.

"I happen to have found a clip that is much better and more democratic - it was produced by famous Nuttawut Saikuar wearing a tie and white shirt and talking like Abhisit, but better.

"Let's have a contest to make similar clips proposing exits for the country. Dress neatly, fix your hair and face to look good like him.

"We will have an award for any clip that is better than Abhisit's," the post read.

-- The Nation 2014-04-25

And this is the one that it has been said is being groomed to take over as PM.

Does he really think politics is some sort of a beauty contest ?

He doesn't mention that Nuttawat is famous for his speeches from the red stage in 2010 threatening violence and urging the burning of BKK and other Govt buildings.

Speeches that have earned him charges of terrorism from which he is presently on bail.

There were many comments on other topics about rich elite amart brats who have inherited their wealth and never done anything useful in their lives.

Here is another one to add to that list, or possibly put on top of the list

[anteater]

Very smart move by Abhisit and the timing couldn't be better.

"We need to guide our country towards reform. Reform must be carried out under constitutional and democratic principles. And the election process must be acceptable to all," the former prime minister said yesterday.

The election process MUST be acceptable to all.

Who can argue with this?

But he WILL be criticized on here relentlessly, but not because he is wrong... Because of pure selfish bias with total disregard for what is good for the country and democracy.

Some people can't accept completely democratic election processes because they know it is a huge disadvantage to their side of politics..... you all know who I am talking about and they will come to comment.

Yingluck did not respond to Abhisit's call for talks between himself and the prime minister. She simply smiled when asked to comment on his request.

That is about the measure of this stupid woman..... I can't think of a single PM in the world who can not even be bothered to offer up a couple of lines of comment... even if it is rhetoric, at least it is something... It just shows how much of a complete airhead she actually is, and it is beyond my comprehension as to why so many people on here want to see her remain in office.... It truly defies belief.

No wonder he was the President of the Oxford Union.

Abhisit was President of the Oxford Union? Prove it.

Seems unlikely to me. Possibly they have some total tossers there, but even the OU would have minimum standards. I suspect that they would endeavour to prevent limpwristed cowards from being head of their organisation.

But maybe he really was Pres (though I can't find it recorded online anywhere). If so, the Union - which prides itself on open and forthright debate and political argument - would be consumed with shame at a former officer who doesn't even have the guts to fight elections, and only gets into office through the back door.

Edited April 25, 2014 by anteater

[ratcatcher]

Very smart move by Abhisit and the timing couldn't be better.

"We need to guide our country towards reform. Reform must be carried out under constitutional and democratic principles. And the election process must be acceptable to all," the former prime minister said yesterday.

The election process MUST be acceptable to all.

Who can argue with this?

But he WILL be criticized on here relentlessly, but not because he is wrong... Because of pure selfish bias with total disregard for what is good for the country and democracy.

Some people can't accept completely democratic election processes because they know it is a huge disadvantage to their side of politics..... you all know who I am talking about and they will come to comment.

Yingluck did not respond to Abhisit's call for talks between himself and the prime minister. She simply smiled when asked to comment on his request.

That is about the measure of this stupid woman..... I can't think of a single PM in the world who can not even be bothered to offer up a couple of lines of comment... even if it is rhetoric, at least it is something... It just shows how much of a complete airhead she actually is, and it is beyond my comprehension as to why so many people on here want to see her remain in office.... It truly defies belief.

No wonder he was the President of the Oxford Union.

Abhisit was President of the Oxford Union? Prove it.

Seems unlikely to me. Possibly they have some total tossers there, but even the OU would have minimum standards. I suspect that they would endeavour to prevent limpwristed cowards from being head of their organisation.

But maybe he really was Pres (though I can't find it recorded online anywhere). If so, the Union - which prides itself on open and forthright debate and political argument - would be consumed with shame at a former officer who doesn't even have the guts to fight elections, and only gets into office through the back door.

Abhisit was President of the Oxford Students Union NOT the Oxford Union, the debating society.

[englishoak]

Very smart move by Abhisit and the timing couldn't be better.

"We need to guide our country towards reform. Reform must be carried out under constitutional and democratic principles. And the election process must be acceptable to all," the former prime minister said yesterday.

The election process MUST be acceptable to all.

Who can argue with this?

But he WILL be criticized on here relentlessly, but not because he is wrong... Because of pure selfish bias with total disregard for what is good for the country and democracy.

Some people can't accept completely democratic election processes because they know it is a huge disadvantage to their side of politics..... you all know who I am talking about and they will come to comment.

Yingluck did not respond to Abhisit's call for talks between himself and the prime minister. She simply smiled when asked to comment on his request.

That is about the measure of this stupid woman..... I can't think of a single PM in the world who can not even be bothered to offer up a couple of lines of comment... even if it is rhetoric, at least it is something... It just shows how much of a complete airhead she actually is, and it is beyond my comprehension as to why so many people on here want to see her remain in office.... It truly defies belief.

No wonder he was the President of the Oxford Union.

Abhisit was President of the Oxford Union? Prove it.

Seems unlikely to me. Possibly they have some total tossers there, but even the OU would have minimum standards. I suspect that they would endeavour to prevent limpwristed cowards from being head of their organisation.

But maybe he really was Pres (though I can't find it recorded online anywhere). If so, the Union - which prides itself on open and forthright debate and political argument - would be consumed with shame at a former officer who doesn't even have the guts to fight elections, and only gets into office through the back door.

Same time period as Boris Johnson Current Mayor of London who also coincidently was also President of the Oxford Union 1986 ... no mention of Mark at all around that time because he wasnt ever President , students union maybe but very much doubt it. 1993 – Akaash Maharaj became the first ever visible ethnic minority president and also the first president of the Oxford Universisty students Uniion from overseas (Canada)....

Mark is not in any position to mediate anything and nor are the Democrats, they are refusing to follow the electoral process, they are not neutral nor have any standing whatsoever,

Pretending to be in the middle of PDRC and the Gov is pathetic, they are just the political arm of the PDRC and thats it... no less than Sinn Fien was the political arm of the IRA

Try reading up on some of Dirtfarmers links, they are very significant and will help you understand where the Democrats really come from and why they are unelectable and the Thai people know it.

Edited April 25, 2014 by englishoak

[billd766]

Poor Ahbisit. No one really treating him serious. Got a lot to prove as his credibilty is near zero.

And what credibility does Yingluck have?

Please detail her achievements over the last 3 years.

Edited April 25, 2014 by billd766

[billd766]

Election. You made this mess in the first place by not participating in february and not accepting a majority vote by THE people.

What majority vote was that?

Do YOU have the official results of the election in February?

If you do please publish them for all the world to see.

On the other hand if you do NOT have the official results then you must be talking crap as usual.

Proof is good. Your words alone mean nothing without the proof.

[billd766]

Panthongtae scoffs at Abhisit's call for peace

BANGKOK: -- Former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra's son, Panthongtae, scoffed at Democrat Party leader Abhisit Vejjajiva's call for talks to end the political crisis.

In a post on Facebook, Panthongtae, who is also known as Oak, said Abhisit's video clip seeking negotiations "made him sick".

"It is the Democrats who created problems for the country by opposing the elections," the post read.

"I happen to have found a clip that is much better and more democratic - it was produced by famous Nuttawut Saikuar wearing a tie and white shirt and talking like Abhisit, but better.

"Let's have a contest to make similar clips proposing exits for the country. Dress neatly, fix your hair and face to look good like him.

"We will have an award for any clip that is better than Abhisit's," the post read.

-- The Nation 2014-04-25

Wow. Words of "wisdom" from the son of the great pretender.

[fab4]

Election. You made this mess in the first place by not participating in february and not accepting a majority vote by THE people.

What majority vote was that?

Do YOU have the official results of the election in February?

If you do please publish them for all the world to see.

On the other hand if you do NOT have the official results then you must be talking crap as usual.

Proof is good. Your words alone mean nothing without the proof.

Well, one way to prove you are right would be to prove that with your own figures. However, as you disagree, but provide no proof, using your "standards" you must be "talking crap" also - just a thought...................

Just out of interest, Chris Baker had a stab at the results using unofficial figures leaked from the Election Commission.

For what it's worth, nobody won. Now ain't that the truth

My overall impression is that nobody won. If full data are every released, Pheu Thai will probably have won a majority of the seats. But the party cannot have won enough votes in absolute numbers to bolster the government’s sagging legitimacy. Last time, the party got 14.3 million votes in the constituency poll. At a guess, this time the figure would be around 10 million.

The “anti-vote” campaign of the Democrats and the PRDC did not triumph either. The protest vote was roughly double the usual level (14% against 7%), but dominant in only 7 provinces. Among former Democrat voters, more seem to have stayed away from the poll rather than registering a protest vote.

http://asiapacific.anu.edu.au/newmandala/2014/02/07/thai-election-by-the-numbers/

[moonao]

Panthongtae scoffs at Abhisit's call for peace

BANGKOK: -- Former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra's son, Panthongtae, scoffed at Democrat Party leader Abhisit Vejjajiva's call for talks to end the political crisis.

In a post on Facebook, Panthongtae, who is also known as Oak, said Abhisit's video clip seeking negotiations "made him sick".

"It is the Democrats who created problems for the country by opposing the elections," the post read.

"I happen to have found a clip that is much better and more democratic - it was produced by famous Nuttawut Saikuar wearing a tie and white shirt and talking like Abhisit, but better.

"Let's have a contest to make similar clips proposing exits for the country. Dress neatly, fix your hair and face to look good like him.

"We will have an award for any clip that is better than Abhisit's," the post read.

-- The Nation 2014-04-25

Its not just Oak that is scoffing, its most of Thailand and pretty much all the international community is laughing at Abhisit.

Its going to be an uphill battle internationally, for someone who boycotted an election, to earn trust and respect again

[semester]

Lies, ignorance and verbose.

Thank you khunken for your series of replies that exposed them.

[semester]

Election. You made this mess in the first place by not participating in february and not accepting a majority vote by THE people.

What majority vote was that?

Do YOU have the official results of the election in February?

If you do please publish them for all the world to see.

On the other hand if you do NOT have the official results then you must be talking crap as usual.

Proof is good. Your words alone mean nothing without the proof.

Another thank you, like Post # 48, for outing lies.

.

Edited April 25, 2014 by semester

[dinooz]

It does sound like AV is trying to avert a catastrophe,he is man enough to state that all parties are to blame which is more than the PTP will ever admit, I guess he isn't so face fixated.YL seems to realize dialogue is the only way out,violence,intimitadtion will not ever work and some down to earth dialogue is needed. For those who constantly despise AV and yes you know who you are, every time his name comes up in a topic you will spend the best part of 24 hours trying to demonise him and you have the audacity to accuse others of being thaksin obsessed,its really FABulous that Mark is making an effort to diffuse a volatile situation ,more so than CAPO have ever achievied all they achieve is more devisive rhetoric.If you think force fed elections, intimidation,lack of respect for the laws is the way Thailand should proceed with then you are deluded,its about time the people of this nation are shown some respect with good honest governance.

[Eric Loh]

Really a last ditch attempt by Ahbisit to salvage some credibility. You got to ask the big question. Why now? He had 6 months to step in and those were the times of intense chaos and violence. Surely those were the tense time that he should step in if he is really sincere. No, he waited until now. I see the reasons are that Suterp is losing the battle and his source of funds are drying up and he need a face saving plan to exit. His big corporate financers are suffering from losses and must have cut their fundings. Then the heart breaking news from the army chiefs that they will support election. This is an exit plan and fool some to think that Ahbisit is trying to be the good guy. Sorry we can see through that facade. You can't boycott election twice and get away with it this easy. Voters will remember that he is untrustworthy and he will be soundly beaten at the polls again.

[englishoak]

Hes just trying to keep himself in the press and seem like hes being productive, whilst the other day he avoided meeting with an excuse.

Just trying to put things on his terms to make it seem like hes willing when really hes anything but thats all ... usual fun and games

[waza]

Its encouraging to see at least one Thai political stalwart is showing some leadership and not playing the blame game. However it would be productive if a few others joined suite.

[northernjohn]

Very smart move by Abhisit and the timing couldn't be better.

"We need to guide our country towards reform. Reform must be carried out under constitutional and democratic principles. And the election process must be acceptable to all," the former prime minister said yesterday.

The election process MUST be acceptable to all.

Who can argue with this?

But he WILL be criticized on here relentlessly, but not because he is wrong... Because of pure selfish bias with total disregard for what is good for the country and democracy.

Some people can't accept completely democratic election processes because they know it is a huge disadvantage to their side of politics..... you all know who I am talking about and they will come to comment.

Yingluck did not respond to Abhisit's call for talks between himself and the prime minister. She simply smiled when asked to comment on his request.

That is about the measure of this stupid woman..... I can't think of a single PM in the world who can not even be bothered to offer up a couple of lines of comment... even if it is rhetoric, at least it is something... It just shows how much of a complete airhead she actually is, and it is beyond my comprehension as to why so many people on here want to see her remain in office.... It truly defies belief.

Abhist big mistake in dealing with Yingluck is he did not do it on Facebook allowing her time to place a call to Dubai for a response to the invitation.

[northernjohn]

Good, there will be a lot of support from most directions, but of course the "Must have elections now" gang will never agree to anything else.

What I would like to know is, 'what exactly is his electoral reform package'

This will be the test of his sincerity to clean up politics for any reforms must apply to him and his party along with every

one else.

In my opinion eliminating convicted criminals and fraudsters from standing for office is a must, however that would be unacceptable to at least one party as it would ban a fair proportion of them.

We won't know what his reforms outline is until he has actually had the talks. He himself won't know... he will know what he wants and what is best for clean elections, but obviously they must be agreed upon first, and that (as you pointed out) won't be easy because the PTP who also control the coalition of the minnows will easily scupper the plans by 'majority' discomfort and disagreement.

PTP can't win unless an election is bent. So they will defy everything and anything to prevent having to go into a clean election process.

These talks should really be only initiated by the Dems and other parties and then taken over by non political party bodies.

Get all political parties to PUBLICLY agree to a free and fair election then take the framework out of their meddling and manipulative hands.

From what I read the Dems have already prepared a reform package.

Korn took time off from the management of the party to pursue reforms and was reported talking to various groups including farmers.

If this is correct then I would think Abhisit will be outlining, or even presenting, these plans to the people he meets and asking for input.

That they haven't gone public with these plans is hardly surprising considering the likely response from PT and their red supporters who have done nothing other than demand quick elections.

I would not be a bit surprised if you were rite. You brought up a key point when you said asking for input.

I support whole heartedly Suthep's drive to reform Thailand but he should be asking for some input. Not just the one way.

He said a general election is not a final answer to the problem, that counting the number of supporters, which group has more supporters, cannot not bring peace to the country. The Court verdict cannot say what direction the country should move. A coup is also no solution to regain peace.

Mr Abhisit said reform should be the answer.

If the PTP and the red shirts get there way that is all an election will do show who has the most people behind them. Also no one will really know the true figures as no one will know how many where bought by all concerned and how many were placed due to intimidation from the red shirts. They have in no way tried to hide the fact that if they don't get there way there may well be blood. In fact some of them are arming up now for that.

There are many Farongs on these boards who do not know any thing about Thailand they think just have a vote and every thing will be peachy keen. Not so it will still leave a divided Thailand. Unity is what they should be searching for. That includes Issan and the Southern provinces not just Issan. Which is where the red shirts want every thing to go.

[Torkmada]

If the PTP and the red shirts get there way that is all an election will do show who has the most people behind them. Also no one will really know the true figures as no one will know how many where bought by all concerned and how many were placed due to intimidation from the red shirts. They have in no way tried to hide the fact that if they don't get there way there may well be blood. In fact some of them are arming up now for that.

There are many Farongs on these boards who do not know any thing about Thailand they think just have a vote and every thing will be peachy keen. Not so it will still leave a divided Thailand. Unity is what they should be searching for. That includes Issan and the Southern provinces not just Issan. Which is where the red shirts want every thing to go.

Elections in Thailand are free and fair and the PTP's massive level of support is genuine. Surely if there is cheating occurring the best course of action is to hold an election, catch them red handed and get the yellow courts to annul the election - if things were done this way there'd be less opposition to an appointed government.

So why aren't Suthep and the Dems wanting an election?

Because they know the truth, they are as unpopular as soi dog excrement and the PTP doesn't need to cheat to blow them away in any election, so they don't.

As for unity. For decades all the wealth of the land has been funnelled into Bangkok whilst the rural poor were forced to live in "sufficiency".

Those days are over.

The PDRC and the Democrats and those they represent are no more than spoiled brats who are throwing a tantrum because they don't want to share their toys with the other kids. When they grow up there'll be unity.

[billd766]

Election. You made this mess in the first place by not participating in february and not accepting a majority vote by THE people.

What majority vote was that?

Do YOU have the official results of the election in February?

If you do please publish them for all the world to see.

On the other hand if you do NOT have the official results then you must be talking crap as usual.

Proof is good. Your words alone mean nothing without the proof.

Well, one way to prove you are right would be to prove that with your own figures. However, as you disagree, but provide no proof, using your "standards" you must be "talking crap" also - just a thought...................

Just out of interest, Chris Baker had a stab at the results using unofficial figures leaked from the Election Commission.

For what it's worth, nobody won. Now ain't that the truth

My overall impression is that nobody won. If full data are every released, Pheu Thai will probably have won a majority of the seats. But the party cannot have won enough votes in absolute numbers to bolster the government’s sagging legitimacy. Last time, the party got 14.3 million votes in the constituency poll. At a guess, this time the figure would be around 10 million.

The “anti-vote” campaign of the Democrats and the PRDC did not triumph either. The protest vote was roughly double the usual level (14% against 7%), but dominant in only 7 provinces. Among former Democrat voters, more seem to have stayed away from the poll rather than registering a protest vote.

http://asiapacific.anu.edu.au/newmandala/2014/02/07/thai-election-by-the-numbers/

Nice of you to answer for xterminator but please pardon me if I ignore what you have said as I wasn't responding to your post.

I am sure that he is big enough to answer for himself.

I made no claims of any figures but exterminator claimed "Election. You made this mess in the first place by not participating in february and not accepting a majority vote by THE people."

What I asked him for was the proof about the majority vote by THE people. His claim and not mine.

The onus is on him to back up what he has said not me to prove me right.

[DirtFarmer]

Lies, ignorance and verbose.

It is a lie to say that Abhisit has been 'very much instrumental in affecting this whole mess...'. The whole mess was started by PTP's 'bring Thaksin home' amnesty bill triggering mass rallies, Suthep's various groups and the government resigning without first ensuring that money was available for the farmers.

It is just stupid to expect him to release his reform proposals as, no matter what they are, will not be acceptable to PTP. Suthep has proposed a number of reforms that even some PTP/red shirt supporters on this forum have agreed with but the party can't even allow the reform word to be mentioned without condemnation (or election this, election that, we win we do what we like, etc, etc).

While it is true that the Democrat party did little to combat corruption while in power, they didn't make it worse and the scale never reached the Thaksin heights. But they did have a bill prepared to tax land, particularly unused land. This bill was quickly dropped by Yingluck (no doubt on bro's orders).

One can criticise Abhisit for various things like being too mild a leader, but small minds attributing (inventing) things to him that have nothing to do with him is nothing more than lies.

Well Kunken it is not true to say the Dems didn't do much to combat corruption while they were in office.

For a start the ratified the UN convention against corruption in 2011 which had been sitting on the table for quite some years.

They also got corruption heading down in spite of having to take on the parasite parties in order to make up a Govt.

Parties which were and still are only there to get as much out of it as possible and will go with whoever offers the most.

I will post the graph (again) which shows clearly the slight drop in the Dem years and the spike during the PT administration.

576x544xCorruption-Perceptions-Index-THAILAND-2.jpg.pagespeed.ic.NKNgav0HXt1.jpg

Zero of course being least corrupt.

I believe you have inverted the facts... Zero is the most corrupt

Explanatory notes*

* CPI Score relates to perceptions of the degree of corruption as seen by business people and country analysts, and ranges between 10 (highly clean) and 0 (highly corrupt).

** Confidence range provides a range of possible values of the CPI score. This reflects how a country's score may vary, depending on measurement precision. Nominally, with 5 percent probability the score is above this range and with another 5 percent it is below. However, particularly when only few sources are available, an unbiased estimate of the mean coverage probability is lower than the nominal value of 90%.

*** Surveys used refers to the number of surveys that assessed a country's performance. 12 surveys and expert assessments were used and at least 3 were required for a country to be included in the CPI.

- See more at: http://archive.transparency.org/policy_research/surveys_indices/cpi/2006#sthash.Se2edjza.dpuf

http://www.investopedia.com/terms/c/corruption-perception-index.asp

Filed Under: Financial Crime, International Markets, Buzzword

Definition of 'Corruption Perception Index - CPI'

A ranking of countries according to the extent to which corruption is believed to exist. The corruption perception index was created in 1995 by Transparency International. It ranks almost 200 countries on a scale of zero to 10, with zero indicating high levels of corruption and 10 indicating low levels. Developed countries typically rank higher than developing nations due to stronger regulations.

http://onfaith.washingtonpost.com/postglobal/needtoknow/2006/09/just_how_corrupt_was_thaksin.html

Edited April 26, 2014 by DirtFarmer

[Thai at Heart]

He's young, he's tan, he's ready, and he's rested. The man who led his party in rejecting the election process in his nation by not showing up to vote in Thailand.

He a real life "InAction Man".

Let's see how long this spurt of energy lasts. I give it a few days until Suthep tells him to sit back down.

[pmugghc]

Hes just trying to keep himself in the press and seem like hes being productive, whilst the other day he avoided meeting with an excuse.

Just trying to put things on his terms to make it seem like hes willing when really hes anything but thats all ... usual fun and games

Your usual rubbish. He has kept a low profile (some say too low) in the last few months. Yet you accuse him of seeking media attention.

You know well the reason he didn't attend the meeting, it was a "prediction" by Yim who had accurately predicted an earlier deadly attack.

At least he has developed a blueprint that he's taking to the various parties. We'll see the details later.

Can you name a single person from the PTP side that has come up with a proposal that could solve the conflict?

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Eric Loh]

Hes just trying to keep himself in the press and seem like hes being productive, whilst the other day he avoided meeting with an excuse.

Just trying to put things on his terms to make it seem like hes willing when really hes anything but thats all ... usual fun and games

Your usual rubbish. He has kept a low profile (some say too low) in the last few months. Yet you accuse him of seeking media attention.

You know well the reason he didn't attend the meeting, it was a "prediction" by Yim who had accurately predicted an earlier deadly attack.

At least he has developed a blueprint that he's taking to the various parties. We'll see the details later.

Can you name a single person from the PTP side that has come up with a proposal that could solve the conflict?

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

The solution expounded by PTP is an election. You don't need a fancy blueprint and play that to the gallery. Just take part, that is his solution.

[khunken]

Contrary to your inference, I do know a bit about the wealthy families and the army and the commissions, some of which pre-date the last coup despite your attempt to denigrate them.

What is clear is that you make accusations and refuse to back them up which tends to point at a very skewed view of That politics. Also here you are making up a case against Abhisit and then denying that you have any political bias regarding Thailand. It's far too much to swallow given that you have only targeted one side of the political make-up here.

'rose to 40%, it has been pointed out'? By who or is this just another made-up piece of propaganda from the side that you are reluctant to criticise. I respond to posts and pay attention to the content which tends to reveal much more than any pretence of fairness. It is pure tripe & dishonest to claim that your posts in this thread are anything but biased diatribes against one person.

Ignore the links I provided above that you asked for... shows the kind of research you do... and continue your schoolyard garbage at will. If you bothered to reach outside the press provided here you would see a lot more without tinting things, clearly that is to much to ask ... if you think for one minute that full story from the Nation or even the BK Post ( though a bit less jaded) you are truly blinkered... here's another website... and report done in 2004 .. usually I respond or comment to what the OP is and I'll leave it at that.. you sir clearly cannot see the forrest from the trees..but nice try..

http://aceproject.org/ero-en/regions/asia/TH/Corruption_in_Thailand.pdf

http://assassinationthaksin.wordpress.com/2013/03/26/thaksin-corruption-what-transparency-international-says-vs-what-elite-thai-establishment-says/

I ignored the first link as it is hardly relevant to the present day or even century. I waded through the second link and could find nothing relevant to your claim. Again you make incorrect assumptions.

No I won't bother with any more of your links as they are either irrelevant or as biased as you yourself are.

If you want to use links to back up your claims, add the relevant quote as well as the link. Save sending (deliberately?) someone on a wild goose chase.

One wood I can clearly see is your disingenious and failed effort to claim fairness. You yourself seem to spend more time among the trees of web sites that too often are constructed (or added to in Wikis case) by those with an agenda.

Anyway, good day to you.

Of course they are relvant as are others written by other Thais because they provide the backdrop for what is happening currently...

your refusal to address the age old underlying factors only displays the shallowness you are limited by in trying to understand the game that is being played out... now If you had a more un biased agenda and an understanding of perspective.. taught by History which here is clearly repeated over and over again in the LOS via the same tactics just different faces you may think differently... on second thought naw... don't waste your time... you are stuck in a varry narrow Soi and prefer to stay there I wish you all the best seeya in a coupla years after your One Trick Pony fails the hurdle again... meanwhile I offer additional links to provide you avenues of genuine research to do... in case you may be interested I enjoyed reading most of them...Cheers!

A History of Thailand, Thaksin:

http://books.google.co.th/books?id=TEdueeBj1H0C&pg=PA269&lpg=PA269&dq=A+History+of+Thailand,+Thaksin:&source=bl&ots=Gt0Z6mPVlL&sig=oij5Jb90RzOl76L6QecWPnozPr8&hl=en&sa=X&ei=9kNaU760Dsb9rAertYHQDg&ved=0CDoQ6AEwAg#v=onepage&q=A%20History%20of%20Thailand%2C%20Thaksin%3A&f=false

Thailand: Economy and Politics

Myths and Realities: The Democratization of Thai Politics (Kyoto Area Studies on Asia)

http://www.amazon.com/Myths-Realities-Democratization-Politics-Studies/dp/1920901418/ref=pd_sim_sbs_b_3?ie=UTF8&refRID=1MTGAWWBKFCTZ3S1ZEYE

Thaispring

June 3, 2013 · Bangkok ·

Brief details of corruption under the abhisit regime

The Abhisit government was charged in several cases of corruption, particularly related to spending under the Thai Khem Khaeng economic stimulus program. After much public pressure, Abhisit appointed Banlu Siripanich head of an investigative committee to investigate allegations within the Ministry of Public Health. Banlu's committee's findings included: bribery by a supplier of ambulances; irregularities in the purchase of UV fans; overspending on construction of building; inflated prices for machines and equipment. Public Health Minister and Democrat MP Witthaya Kaewparadai, Deputy Minister from Bhumjaithai Party Manit Nop-amornbodi (who was in charge of the projects) resigned due to the scandal.

Abhisit's Social Development and Human Security Minister also resigned due to a corruption scandal. In addition, Apirak Kosayodhin, the Democrat Party Governor of Bangkok, were indicted by the National Counter Corruption Commission on 11 November 2008 for corruption in the purchase of 6.6 billion baht in fire-fighting equipment. Apirak resigned from his office on 13 November.

Flood victims in Phatthalung province became nauseous after eating canned fish products which were donated through the Social Development and Human Security Ministry. Opposition party spokesman, Prompong Nopparit accused Democrat Minister Vitoon Nambutr of corruption in the procurement of the fish. Democrat Minister Vitoon Nambutr insisted there was no irregularities and that the ministry did not procure them for distribution. However, he later resigned to take responsibility for this situation

Abhisit's government came under accusations that the 26 billion baht Sufficiency Economy Community project was tainted with corruption. Abhisit replied to the accusations by suggesting that the "alleged malpractice might have originated during the period when the office was in charge of managing small, medium, and large (SML) enterprises…. The SML project was created by the Thaksin Shinawatra government."

Democrat MPs saw their personal net worth increase by 4.3 billion baht while Abhisit was Prime Minister. Democrat financier Kalaya Sophonphanit's personal wealth increased by 422 million baht, while the wealth of MPs Wilat Chanpitak and Chalermlak Kebsap increased by 303 and 302 million baht respectively. 10 out of 10 MPs whose wealth increased the most during Abhisit's premiership were all Democrat MPs

Nothing you say contradicts anything I have posted Abhisit as as useful to the Thai Nation as Nipples on a turtle... your inference that Wiki is less than accurate flies full in the face of reality but never mind clearly you are too lazy and self satisfied with your piety to broaden your horizons... and that is your choice... and your right.. my opinions are just that...mine.. but I rarely make them known unless I have at least done some homework. Something that I am not afraid to do because I do not know it all and am eager to know more... but certainly am not learning anything here with you

Pasuk Phongpaichit

is probably one of the most well written and respect Professors at Chula and can hardly be ignored having documented a very wide spectrum of Thai Politics and has an irrefutable level of expertise... I defer to her.. you can google her name and check her out..

Books by Pasuk Phongpaichit

http://www.amazon.com/Pasuk-Phongpaichit/e/B001IO9SWS/ref=ntt_dp_epwbk_0

Just one final comment Dirtfarmer.

You posted a piece of crap from a website called Thaispring. I took one look and saw a photo of Thaksin as a champion of democracy & that was enough.

In other words posting 'proof' of what you say from a biased site is totally dishonest. You have made your links worthless & I have no intention of following any more of them. All you are doing is spreading lies and disinformation.