Trying to Build Home in Issan, on a Slab! What a Nightmare!

[bob strutt]

if you ever go to australia you will find in most parts it is exactly the same as thailand, only hotter, and humid, we gave them the eueceliptus trees in 1902, which flourish here now, in aus we have over time learnt to build houses for the conditions, aussie queenslander type bush homes are perfect for thailand, we have the same white ant problem, if using timber in thailand, cypess pine is the only timber to use as it has a natural poison in it that the white ants will not attack, same in aus, if building in thailand look at sensible aus designs as it works, our new house is amazingly liveable, not at all a hot box thai design, i live 15 ks from si that in a village and have not had to put on the air con yet, all my friends are complaining about the heat, in there thai houses at udon thani, some have 5 air cons going constantly, we have in australia parts with black soil that really moves with rain, and i mean move , but a properly desigded concrete slab will work , just get it right the first time, 600mm or deeper footings are a must, and lots of reinforcement steel, if you require any help contact me

[bob strutt]

if you ever go to australia you will find in most parts it is exactly the same as thailand, only hotter, and humid, we gave them the eueceliptus trees in 1902, which flourish here now, in aus we have over time learnt to build houses for the conditions, aussie queenslander type bush homes are perfect for thailand, we have the same white ant problem, if using timber in thailand, cypess pine is the only timber to use as it has a natural poison in it that the white ants will not attack, same in aus, if building in thailand look at sensible aus designs as it works, our new house is amazingly liveable, not at all a hot box thai design, i live 15 ks from si that in a village and have not had to put on the air con yet, all my friends are complaining about the heat, in there thai houses at udon thani, some have 5 air cons going constantly, we have in australia parts with black soil that really moves with rain, and i mean move , but a properly desigded concrete slab will work , just get it right the first time, 600mm or deeper footings are a must, and lots of reinforcement steel, if you require any help contact me

[Guitar God]

I'm building a house there too, and I have to admit, my people, and I, often cook on open fires too.

It's most common during the hot months in our country. Usually the Alpha male of the group will build a fire and put on a ceremonial apron and act as the "grill master" for the day. Ocassionaly the entire village shows up.

Sometimes we eat bovine, porcine or cervine flesh, or the ground up muscle of ruminants made into "patty's" and eaten between kanom pan.

Another traditional food cooked on open fires is the grilled intestinal casings of pigs filled with ground up snouts, lips and *ssholes.

The food is usually eaten either on the ground while sitting on blankets or on rustic wooden furniture and washed down with fermented alcoholic beverages that contain yeast poop.

...A cry for help please guys, why am I being told what to do by people who still cook on open fires, when Thailand has the highest incidence of Lung Complaints, in the world ! I have shown them all of the 7 Homes I have Built in Australia, including in Port Douglas which has survived Cyclones, I have told them that if Thailand ever had a Cyclone, they would be wiped off the Map, I may as well talk to the hand.

[biplanebluey]

Surely, or I always was thinking, the elevation is to protect against invasion by reptiles, snakes etc.

Forgive me if I am on the wrong track.

Reptiles,snakes etc------ they all can climb you know,but I forgive you for being wrong. NOW----- in Isaan it is not uncommon and in fact almost imperative in places that the building is elevated due to the high risk of FLOODING----- that's it !

[DavoTheGun]

If your going the slab way, make it mighty thick...........

That's good advice - and make sure there is more than a "little bit" of aggragate in the pour , as opposed to the usual slurry.

I saw a slab being poured once - at first I thought they were cleaning out the concrete mixer as the liquid emanating from it was as far from concrete as you could get. However, it was self levelling.

Davo....Heed these words from GSXRNZ.....That is exactly what happened to me...BUT ONLY ONCE !....My main slab is now 8 inches thick, as i made them pour it again. Funny enough the floor turned out level with the extra concrete

why on earth do you need it 8 inch thick. surely you have a ring beam and then a slab about 4 inches thick all poured at the same time

Exactly what I intend!!

[thaiguzzi]

Samphrao House 003.JPGThe wife and I built our Isan house made with brick on poles. We used the brick with air pockets instead of the smaller solid type. What we saved in brick weight we paid for in walls that hold in the heat of the day. If you use the type of brick we did, fill those holes with some type of light insulation material. It will really make it cooler inside. Insulation above the ceiling is a must.

Our Cement poles, lined with rebar, were set down into the bedrock and a 3 cubic foot block of rebar lined concrete poured around the base of each pole. The slab was poured later

.

You need to be on site watching the workers. They all claim to be pros. The truth is they know just enough to cause you headaches.

The claim that the Phu Yai Ban requires a building fee is bogus; but the wife asked a Buddhist monk to advise where to locate the main sao (pole) on our plot and an auspicious date to begin. She also asked the village shaman to come to preform the permission to build ceremony on our land, in order to appease the spirits that live there. These are little important matters Thais take seriously.

Our house came out more or less 90% the way we designed it. We are happy to live in it and so far, after 4 years, no cracks; and we have had some cat. 4 tropical storms blast through here during that time and small floods that go away as most do up here in Isan.

Nice house. Simple. My cup of tea.

[krisb]

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Back in the late 90's, an acquaintance began building a home outside of Udon and insisted on a cellar. Apparently, he had testicles, because the villagers told him it wasn't a good idea, but he insisted. Mid-way through the build and after the first few weeks of rainy season, he understood his idea wasn't a good one.

My wife and I have built a full-size house and a mid-size bungalow.......years apart....without paying off any village folks. The house still stands after 17 years....the bungalow after 1.

Thats more about the builders than the aim....what do you think about all the basement carparks in Bangkok in swamp country ?

Highrise buildings need basements. They are air pockets helped use to keep the building from sinking.

[Bigfarang1948]

If you are paying for it...build it as you like.

The fixation with raising land...even when not needed is just crazy here......think everyone either wants to be higher than everyone else...or the mentality of just follow everyone else....either way

I live in Isan and see raised houses along the Mekong but almost none in the villages and not many here in Udon Thani either.

I am building in SangKhom, on a pad 45 cm above ground level. The 20 cm concrete/rebar support columns which have been sunk 45 cm deep and have been strengthened by reinforced channels of concrete sunk into the ground 30 cm between each upright. The Thais in the village agree this is the best method, so do what you want to do,

We have already seen three homes under construction damaged or destroyed because the builder used cheap iron to connect the columns and did not reinforce them in the ground between the columns. 80 km winds blew their houses down because of shoddy materials and poor planning, but then again, maybe the poor farmer did not have money for superior material, who knows?

Edited May 1, 2014 by Bigfarang1948

[Showbags]

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Back in the late 90's, an acquaintance began building a home outside of Udon and insisted on a cellar. Apparently, he had testicles, because the villagers told him it wasn't a good idea, but he insisted. Mid-way through the build and after the first few weeks of rainy season, he understood his idea wasn't a good one.

My wife and I have built a full-size house and a mid-size bungalow.......years apart....without paying off any village folks. The house still stands after 17 years....the bungalow after 1.

Thats more about the builders than the aim....what do you think about all the basement carparks in Bangkok in swamp country ?

Highrise buildings need basements. They are air pockets helped use to keep the building from sinking.

Thats what pilings are for.

Take a look at some older high rise office or condos....all the carparks are above ground....several levels......they built above ground here because cheaper and easier than going down with all the water and shIt.......but now, they have the technology and ?? not sure how many years, not so long ago, they started to go down and do basements far more often than not.

[mcfish]

What does it matter, odds are within 2 years you will walk away from it.

[Muhendis]

Surely, or I always was thinking, the elevation is to protect against invasion by reptiles, snakes etc.

Forgive me if I am on the wrong track.

Absolutely right also buffalo and cattle used to be kept under the house. The style of building is a throwback to those old jungle days and is a habit that will never be lost. If you consider how we, in the west, construct blocks of offices and apartments etc. There are some similarities in the steel/RC framework and the Thai home construction.

[mogandave]

Having the house on piles provides a nice, relatively cool basement.

Nice in the event of a flood as well.

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[IMHO]

From their perspective, you are building the house for them so they probably don't understand why you are so opinionated.

Paying 50,000 to a village elder for permission to build a home... they must think you are a complete idiot.

I would recommend

1. get away from the in-laws and extended family

2. rent, don't build

I'm not normally one to join in these types of conversations, but wow.

@OP: you are being fleeced by the pooyai ban, and your family, and I reckon my first quoted reply here is dead on the mark.

[carken]

Well I'll probably regret this as I'll probably get lots of backlash. First of all they have been building houses this way in Thailand for a few decades and most if not all seem to hold up pretty well. The reason I was told that the land is built up higher then it was/is is two(2) fold, First is to make sure water doesn't get in house in case of off and on flooding in some areas. Second is it gives a much firmer base for home to decrease or eliminate settling cracks, You do need to give the built up area about 12 months to settle aided by a man every 3 months or so running heavy macinery over land to help the "packing" process, Now to slab first vs cement pillars. I'm no builder although I was a sales rep for the 2nd largest retirement home builder in America. This builder built homes on slab and like all US home builders always had several to a lot of post building problems with slab homes. I had never seen or heard of building home with cement pillars and pouring slab after pillars and roof were in place till I came to Thailand. I designed our 3 bed 2 bath home and local Thai builder did an excellent job building it Thai way. Home is 4+ years old and very very few small cracks in a scant few places causing no problems in structure at all. i.e. a few normal "settling" cracks no wider than maybe 1/16 inch

I have a American custom home builder friend who's also a structural engineer. As I had never seen a home built the "Thai" way I was concerned so I asked him about Thai building methods before I started building. He told me Thai building method of cement pillars and masonary walls with steel roof beams etc is much stronger and superior to slab first then framed wall American built homes. I'm adding my 2 cents worth just to maybe help ease your concerns a little.

Also much to a few posters dismay I will not be baited or drug into an online negative argument about my info sharing.. .

Sent from my ultra HF Z1357 phone on my nuclear based atomic VF 32-57 SMI nuclear submarines communications room

[monkeycountry]

There are many countries as hot if not hotter then Thailand, Vietnam for instance, here thay build many houses on slab, but as I have also pointed out they have been occupied by Ferang, French Belgian USA etc so have learnt other ways of many things, Thailand has not had this advantage, and I have told them in no uncertain terms, as I am paying WILL be my way, but still the Blank Stare!

I was told this morning that I will not find a builder in Issan who will build for me, but have found one in Buriram, who not only reads plans but has email also! Bonus.

But the Village Boss says I must have his approval and pay him 50,000Bt, is this normal?

"But the Village Boss says I must have his approval and pay him 50,000Bt, is this normal?"

That's a good one. I have a feeling we will be hearing more funny stories from you, as it seems the whole village is trying to get a piece of you.

Don't forget to get a proper receipt if you do indeed pay 50k to the village idiot (and please post it here :-)

Good luck :-)

[alfredm46]

I found the best way was to drive around the area and look at houses that looked well built and European style. We asken them for the builder's name and all were built by the same one. No problem - he drew the plans to my drawings we signed the contract and now have a beautiful Europaen style house which we love. We also got a guy from Surin to build us a western style kitchen, put on spouting with 3 water thanks - drilled a well - done the drainage with corrugated preforated pipes and now all is just great. I built 3 houses in New Zealand and tlking about problems - about the same as here. We got people coming round to look at our house quite frequently. The only thing we have to finish is the landscaping. Probably what I am saying it doesn't have to be a bad experience if you are in charge and make sure of good materials used and have the time to supervise !!!!!!!!!!

[krisb]

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Back in the late 90's, an acquaintance began building a home outside of Udon and insisted on a cellar. Apparently, he had testicles, because the villagers told him it wasn't a good idea, but he insisted. Mid-way through the build and after the first few weeks of rainy season, he understood his idea wasn't a good one.

My wife and I have built a full-size house and a mid-size bungalow.......years apart....without paying off any village folks. The house still stands after 17 years....the bungalow after 1.

Thats more about the builders than the aim....what do you think about all the basement carparks in Bangkok in swamp country ?

Highrise buildings need basements. They are air pockets helped use to keep the building from sinking.

Thats what pilings are for.

Take a look at some older high rise office or condos....all the carparks are above ground....several levels......they built above ground here because cheaper and easier than going down with all the water and shIt.......but now, they have the technology and ?? not sure how many years, not so long ago, they started to go down and do basements far more often than not.

100% highrise buildings use basement levels to help keep the building buyoant. Engineers at work told me this. Pilings are structural. The bigger the building, the more basement levels used. Similar to a boat with a hull than flat bottom boats I suppose. Maybe Bangkok uses a different system then most not sure.

[krisb]

Well I'll probably regret this as I'll probably get lots of backlash. First of all they have been building houses this way in Thailand for a few decades and most if not all seem to hold up pretty well. The reason I was told that the land is built up higher then it was/is is two(2) fold, First is to make sure water doesn't get in house in case of off and on flooding in some areas. Second is it gives a much firmer base for home to decrease or eliminate settling cracks, You do need to give the built up area about 12 months to settle aided by a man every 3 months or so running heavy macinery over land to help the "packing" process, Now to slab first vs cement pillars. I'm no builder although I was a sales rep for the 2nd largest retirement home builder in America. This builder built homes on slab and like all US home builders always had several to a lot of post building problems with slab homes. I had never seen or heard of building home with cement pillars and pouring slab after pillars and roof were in place till I came to Thailand. I designed our 3 bed 2 bath home and local Thai builder did an excellent job building it Thai way. Home is 4+ years old and very very few small cracks in a scant few places causing no problems in structure at all. i.e. a few normal "settling" cracks no wider than maybe 1/16 inch

I have a American custom home builder friend who's also a structural engineer. As I had never seen a home built the "Thai" way I was concerned so I asked him about Thai building methods before I started building. He told me Thai building method of cement pillars and masonary walls with steel roof beams etc is much stronger and superior to slab first then framed wall American built homes. I'm adding my 2 cents worth just to maybe help ease your concerns a little.

Also much to a few posters dismay I will not be baited or drug into an online negative argument about my info sharing.. .

Sent from my ultra HF Z1357 phone on my nuclear based atomic VF 32-57 SMI nuclear submarines communications room

Building using Thai raft foundation is nothing new and it works well. It allows the building to settle without breaking its own back. The best bit imo is every wall is just a partition and none load bearing allowing for any interior wall design the owner wants.

[TPI]

There are many countries as hot if not hotter then Thailand, Vietnam for instance, here thay build many houses on slab, but as I have also pointed out they have been occupied by Ferang, French Belgian USA etc so have learnt other ways of many things, Thailand has not had this advantage, and I have told them in no uncertain terms, as I am paying WILL be my way, but still the Blank Stare!

I was told this morning that I will not find a builder in Issan who will build for me, but have found one in Buriram, who not only reads plans but has email also! Bonus.

But the Village Boss says I must have his approval and pay him 50,000Bt, is this normal?

It is....if you have the brains of a goose!!!!

[Water Buffalo]

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There are many countries as hot if not hotter then Thailand, Vietnam for instance, here thay build many houses on slab, but as I have also pointed out they have been occupied by Ferang, French Belgian USA etc so have learnt other ways of many things, Thailand has not had this advantage, and I have told them in no uncertain terms, as I am paying WILL be my way, but still the Blank Stare!

I was told this morning that I will not find a builder in Issan who will build for me, but have found one in Buriram, who not only reads plans but has email also! Bonus.

But the Village Boss says I must have his approval and pay him 50,000Bt, is this normal?

Can you speak thai? I'm bettin it was your wife told you about the 50,000! lol

Guaranteed! She wouldn't let the village boss get that type of money. It isn't normal to pay anything anyway. We never paid anything. They get paid by the government for doing nothing.

[Thaiready]

When you go to the Concrere Plant they show you a list of prices for concrete.......I said to myself &lt;deleted&gt;.....in the US you only have one price...here the cheaper the price the less cement is added.....purchase only the highest price...because if you don't it's not hard enough....I also made a visit to Concrete Plant each time I placed a order to make sure their not cheating.

[somchaismith]

Still have my Skylab (took-took) Use it to run into the ville for bulk stuff.

Any idea why they are called skylabs?

[trogers]

This form of construction is slab on ground. The posts do not support the floor in any way, only the roof. The slab is used to provide lower lateral brace to the posts.

Should the supporting soil below the slab fails, either due to settlement or erosion or overloading, the slab would sag at those overloaded points.

[krisb]

Still have my Skylab (took-took) Use it to run into the ville for bulk stuff.

Any idea why they are called skylabs?

I own a skylab samlor. It's just a brand name.

I started a thread called 'do you own a tuk tuk or samlor' a while back. Great if anyone wants to add a few pics to it

[Senechal]

This is why it's never a good idea to build in your wife's home town. If your wife is from Udon, build in Ubon, etc.

It cannot be understated that the opinion of her family is *already* that you are building a house for the family -- not for you. They really cannot imagine that this will not be "their" house. And if you think there are traces of this sentiment floating around already... Just wait. As the project bears completion you will find the general respect level towards you begins to plummet. You will be the guy that "bought the family a house" forever. But you will not be the man of the house unless you rule with an iron fist... And from your post it looks like that's not the case.

You're far better off renting a home in another city. Then you will wear the pants.

If you're thinking that after this initial disagreement, things will be easier... No. You're already seeing a very important dynamic. Pay attention to it.

[krisb]

Make sure you budget in a big falang fence. It keeps 'them'up the road out.

Cyclone proof is 1 thing, inlaw proof is another.

I just keep reminding myself its ok, its ok, they will be dead 1 day soon.

Good luck Davothegun, you may need that gun.

[thaiguzzi]

This is why it's never a good idea to build in your wife's home town. If your wife is from Udon, build in Ubon, etc.

It cannot be understated that the opinion of her family is *already* that you are building a house for the family -- not for you. They really cannot imagine that this will not be "their" house. And if you think there are traces of this sentiment floating around already... Just wait. As the project bears completion you will find the general respect level towards you begins to plummet. You will be the guy that "bought the family a house" forever. But you will not be the man of the house unless you rule with an iron fist... And from your post it looks like that's not the case.

You're far better off renting a home in another city. Then you will wear the pants.

If you're thinking that after this initial disagreement, things will be easier... No. You're already seeing a very important dynamic. Pay attention to it.

Yawn... really? Why would your Udon wife want to move to Ubon? Just to be further away from her family, friends, and where she grew up, to a new area where she does'nt know anybody. That makes real sense Big Boy, i'm sure she will be very happy and forever grateful.

"Iron fist" blah blah. I rest my case re my earlier post. Wan#kers.

[bangkoklasse]

This is why it's never a good idea to build in your wife's home town. If your wife is from Udon, build in Ubon, etc.

It cannot be understated that the opinion of her family is *already* that you are building a house for the family -- not for you. They really cannot imagine that this will not be "their" house. And if you think there are traces of this sentiment floating around already... Just wait. As the project bears completion you will find the general respect level towards you begins to plummet. You will be the guy that "bought the family a house" forever. But you will not be the man of the house unless you rule with an iron fist... And from your post it looks like that's not the case.

You're far better off renting a home in another city. Then you will wear the pants.

If you're thinking that after this initial disagreement, things will be easier... No. You're already seeing a very important dynamic. Pay attention to it.

Yawn... really? Why would your Udon wife want to move to Ubon? Just to be further away from her family, friends, and where she grew up, to a new area where she does'nt know anybody. That makes real sense Big Boy, i'm sure she will be very happy and forever grateful.

"Iron fist" blah blah. I rest my case re my earlier post. Wan#kers.

Most friends that I know, like to stay with their wife in the house. Two people and their children if they have any. That's nearly impossible when building a house close to her family and friends. The house and garden will be full of other people every day

[kamalabob2]

This is from a google search and a real estate firm on Koh Samui. The laws are nationwide as are the nominal fees for a "permit to build"

OR BOR TOR ISSUED BUILDING PERMIT LICENSE

Construction License, Building Alteration License, or Tearing Down Building License

No. 00000/2555
License is given to _______-_______ the owner of a building, residing at __-__ Alley/Soi - Road ___-___ Moo __-__ Tambon/Kweang _____-______ Amphur/Khet ______-_______ Province ______-_______
Clause 1 To construct a building (green area ___) At - Alley/Soi - Road - Moo - Tambon/Kweang - Amphur/Khet - Province - in Nor.Sor. 3 no xxxx which is the land of ___________-____________
Clause 2 To be a ...................................... building
Type ............................ amount ............. to be .................. with an area/length of .................. - square meters. A parking, a u-turn area, and an entrance/exit for.................. car(s) with the area of - square meters.
Type ............................ amount ............... to be .................. with an area/length of ................. - square meters. A parking, a u-turn area, and an entrance/exit for ................. car(s) with the area of .......................... square meters.
Type ............................ amount ............... to be .................. with an area/length of ................. - square meters. A parking, a u-turn area, and an entrance/exit for ................ car(s) with the area of .......................... square meters.
according to an area plan, a blueprint, details of a blueprint, and details of a calculation no ...........................
Clause 3 Mr. ............................... is the foreman
Clause 4 A licensee shall follow conditions below:
A licensee shall follow principles, methods, and conditions according to ministerial regulations and/or local registrations; section 8 (11), section 9, or section 10 of the Building Control Act B.E. 2522. The building(s) is calculated by Mr. ___-___ In case of a blueprint violates other relevant laws, a licensee shall follow those laws.
This license is valid until ............. month ............. B.E. .............
Issued on .............. month .............. B.E. ..............
(signed) ............../s/...........
(Mr. ...................................)
Position ...........................
(official seal being affixed)

[kamalabob2]

“The building permit document itself incurs a 20-baht fee and there are other fees for inspection, depending on what the building permit is for.

The inspection fee for a building of no more than two storeys or of a height up to 12 meters is 0.5 baht (50 satang) per square meter of the total building area, combining the areas of each storey if there are more than one.

For structures of two or three stories, or between 12 and 15 meters tall – the fee is 2 baht per square meter of total building area, combining the areas of each storey.

For structures of more than three stories or of heights over 15 meters, the fee is four baht per square meter of total building area, again combining the areas of each storey.

The fees I have given here are the inspection fees for new buildings only. There are different rates used for other aspects of building permits, such as in renovating a property, not building a new one.

These rates are listed in the building permit fee section in the Interior Ministry’s Ministerial Regulation Notice 7 issued in BE 2528 (1985), which updates the Building Control Act BE 2522 (1979).

A copy is available for download from the Thai Council of Engineers website