England World Cup Thread

[P45Mustang]

"In celebrating the goal he jumped up, landed on a water bottle and dislocated his ankle," said boss Roy Hodgson.

Well that's exactly the problem if you get too carried away.

Disgraceful behaviour.

I really do think the FA need to clamp down on this.

Let's hope the Ox doesn't score against Uruguay, or there will be hell to pay at FA headquarters.

[jellydog]

Team against Uruguay then......slit or bust!

Hart

Jones Jagielka Cahill Shaw

Gerrard Barkley

Sterling Rooney Welbeck

Sturridge

​Jones in for Johnson at full back basically for the experience and also Johnson is not the attacking full back he used to be.

Shaw in for Baines same give him his chance now as he will be England's left back for years to come..World Cup tournament experience is valuable.

Barkley in for Henderson who had a good game but Barkley offers much more with his attacking dribbles.You could drop Rooney but i think move him inside as the real number 10 and play him in his best position first to see if he delivers against the Uruguayans.If not bring Henderson in and put Barkley as the number 10 against Costa Rica.

Wilshere was invisible when he came on so hopefully the Ox will be fit to bring on as a impact sub for the next game.and Lambert in place of one of the front two if needed.

It will be a very physical game so hopefully we will get a very strong ref.

All is not lost!

Please not Jones ! They'll eat him for lunch. Lallana rather than Welbeck for me. If the Ox is fit he'd be a better late game sub than Wilshire. Agreed with that.

[P45Mustang]

Will Roy keep Rooney?

It's almost like we are trying to find a place for him.

Need to fight the opposition, not ourselves.

[iancnx]

Rooney should be dropped to the Kebab stand. Though have to admit the assist was perfect. To play someone for 90 mins only to get one piece of brilliance is nuts. Roy has given him his chance, now make way for a youngster, hungrier, in form player.

[carmine]

My lap tops not showing my earlier post but others seem to have read it! Strange.

Oh well, on greater reflection, more of the same and taking the gilt edged opportunities i remain reasonably relaxed that we can win our last two games. The younger players will have learnt from this experience too.

Italy as per usual well organized and galvanized by the ever impressive Pirlo and De Rossi but the rest....nothing much really. However, theres absolutely no reason why we cannot beat those other two.

Not sure i want Rooney to play next purely because i don't think he fits our best set up. Add to that i don't think he works right out on the left although the cross to assist Sturridge was spot on.

[rixalex]

Rooney should be dropped to the Kebab stand. Though have to admit the assist was perfect. To play someone for 90 mins only to get one piece of brilliance is nuts. Roy has given him his chance, now make way for a youngster, hungrier, in form player.

I was always of the opinion that Rooney deserved to get a chance to prove himself in the first game and if he didn't, he should be dropped. After last night, i definitely think there is a strong case for him to be dropped. Wouldn't argue against that. There is however also an argument that if you only produce one bit of brilliance, but it is the bit of brilliance that leads to our only goal, you've contributed quite a bit.

How many bits of brilliance did Mario produce for the Italians? Didn't really see him do anything besides score the goal. Pretty important contribution though.

Anyway, all that aside, thought we looked bright and creative. Sterling was brilliant, although seemed to drop off in the second half, as most of the players did in fairness. The very time when we really needed a bit more energy to get back into the game.

If the teams performances were reversed, i'm sure we'd be hearing today all about how lucky we were and how little we created in spite of the win. But because they aren't, we are hearing all about how the Italians actually had another gear but just chose not to use it. May be so, but my suspicion is time will prove otherwise, and prove that the Italians didn't have another gear. Which will of course make it all the worse that we didn't get anything from the game. Still, we are not out yet, and if we can play like that in our next two games, who knows...

[Bangon]

Rooney should be played in the position he does best at in the middle.Sterling and Welbeck can run the flanks and provide the ammunition.

[carmine]

Rooney should be played in the position he does best at in the middle.Sterling and Welbeck can run the flanks and provide the ammunition.

I think the real problem with Rooney is where do you fit him in if its not central behind the striker. As you saw last night he kept pulling in central and leaving our left flank wide open and really exposed Baines who, lets face it was picked for his attacking ability. Cole would have been a much better choice to take and pick for this game if Hodgeson was putting Rooney on the left flank.

Gerrard didn't have the best of games either but that wasn't surprising as they had packed their midfield to hold possession which they did rather well.

I just can't see Rooney fitting into this set up and Hodgson may just have won enough plaudits by his attacking selection to be given some slack to bench him next thursday.

They also have ample time to remind Cahill and Johnson where their far post is and how to defend it when a cross comes in from the right because that was schoolboy defending

[P45Mustang]

Agree.

Not sure about RB.

Do we have a better option than Johnson?

[carmine]

Agree.

Not sure about RB.

Do we have a better option than Johnson?

Not really. He just needs to be told to prioritize on his defending. He's great going forward but is similar to the injures Kyle Walker in getting himself caught out of position and exposing the far post to right side crosses.

Seems these days its forgotten that a left/right backs number one agenda is to defend. I'll bore you with it once more.....Ashley Cole should have gone on this at the expense of Shaw.

[P45Mustang]

Do we not need up and down LB and RB?

Ashley is struggling to do what he used to do.

Johnson doesn't inspire me when he goes forward. He makes me feel nervous.

[carmine]

Do we not need up and down LB and RB?

Ashley is struggling to do what he used to do.

Well the situation might mean changing the formation. For example, if we were playing the likes of Portugal and Ronaldo was attacking our left flank the priority would be to defend it well and Cole is still the best defensively. Then again, against a weaker side without the attacking threat you go with Baines for his attacking options and dead ball skills. I can't see the point of taking Shaw, as the second pick should have the experience and that for me makes Cole a shoe in.

As for the right you would rarely take a second right back and Johnson is that up and down option. If he gets crocked we'd just adapt with someone else.

[Chicog]

I thought beforehand that England would lose to Italy and Uruguay and draw the last one.

Now I think they might lose all three.

They really are so one dimensional it's pathetic. I'm all for a bit of organisation but Teutonic efficiency they are not.

[jellydog]

Now that we are dissecting can someone explain to me the fascination with Welbeck ? Strikes me as over hyped and under talented. At best an OK forward and at worse he offers next to nothing. Too often with a poor first touch and he seems to lack pitch awareness.

Maybe he has that Man United connection going for him. Otherwise I just don't get it.

[P45Mustang]

Do we not need up and down LB and RB?

Ashley is struggling to do what he used to do.

Well the situation might mean changing the formation. For example, if we were playing the likes of Portugal and Ronaldo was attacking our left flank the priority would be to defend it well and Cole is still the best defensively. Then again, against a weaker side without the attacking threat you go with Baines for his attacking options and dead ball skills. I can't see the point of taking Shaw, as the second pick should have the experience and that for me makes Cole a shoe in.

As for the right you would rarely take a second right back and Johnson is that up and down option. If he gets crocked we'd just adapt with someone else.

I'll have a think carmine.

Not entirely comfortable with what you are saying.

[smokie36]

Not really sure where to post now but that pinned world cup thread is likely to become knob head central so i'll stick to this one with the England games.

Great to see youngsters like Sterling running at defenses and England actually going toe to toe and having a go.

Unfortuately defensive errors like the second Italian goal gets you nothing.

Haven't really formulated an opinion on the rest of it but looks like we'll have to win the next two. However, its actually not beyond us despite this very disappointing result.

He may be 35 yo but what a player Pirlo still is. MOM in my opinion.

Its a shame you seemed to lose a bit of the tempo after the opening 15 mins cos I thought England could have steamrollered Italy.

All in all though a satisfying result of course.

[Somtamme]

Now that we are dissecting can someone explain to me the fascination with Welbeck ? Strikes me as over hyped and under talented. At best an OK forward and at worse he offers next to nothing. Too often with a poor first touch and he seems to lack pitch awareness.

Maybe he has that Man United connection going for him. Otherwise I just don't get it.

It's not a problem with Wellbeck, as he has all the attributes to succeed, pace power and height, but he like many English players are taught to keep the ball and forget attacking their opponents as first thought. Cleverly had this too. Some say its confidence, but I think it's deeper and someone needs to explain football for a forward is to perform like a matador, not someone who off-loads at every opportunity

[jellydog]

Now that we are dissecting can someone explain to me the fascination with Welbeck ? Strikes me as over hyped and under talented. At best an OK forward and at worse he offers next to nothing. Too often with a poor first touch and he seems to lack pitch awareness.

Maybe he has that Man United connection going for him. Otherwise I just don't get it.

It's not a problem with Wellbeck, as he has all the attributes to succeed, pace power and height, but he like many English players are taught to keep the ball and forget attacking their opponents as first thought. Cleverly had this too. Some say its confidence, but I think it's deeper and someone needs to explain football for a forward is to perform like a matador, not someone who off-loads at every opportunity

"Pace, power and height" he has without question. His dribbling skills however are mediocre and he doesn't see the field well. He's old enough now so that some of his weaknesses should be improving...but I don't see it happening.

[P45Mustang]

Anybody got an accurate assessment of Welbeck?

For me he is a bit of a jack of all trades and master of nothing.

Can't quite figure out his role in the current England set up.

( This post written before I saw JD's )

[smokie36]

cramp after 65 mins,,, <deleted> !!!! down to what i said b4 warming up/acclimatising in rio?,,,,, IMO MISTAKE? anyway disappointed in baines and Mooney's defensive combo in the first half, thought Johnson was wasteful and seemed to lacked accuracy and urgency., Gerrard and Henderson in front of defense looked ill at ease and vulnerable, Plus's defo sterling Mom 4 me. ,Sturridge looked sharp and 4 new b'si sh looked at home. Wellbeck looked the part. Oh & on the bbc's commentary Rio's defo been on the toot!!!

What's this "toot" you speak of rij?

I thought the World Cup was in Brazil....not Colombia, or worse...South Africa?

[Somtamme]

Anybody got an accurate assessment of Welbeck?

For me he is a bit of a jack of all trades and master of nothing.

Can't quite figure out his role in the current England set up.

( This post written before I saw JD's )

Thierry Henry spotted this on the BBC last night, he said quite calmly, Wellbeck has to learn to take risks. This is not his fault as I see it, anyone can adapt, but more to do coaching to get the best out of a player. It's surprising when he has come through a system like Utd's

[P45Mustang]

I thought beforehand that England would lose to Italy and Uruguay and draw the last one.

Now I think they might lose all three.

They really are so one dimensional it's pathetic. I'm all for a bit of organisation but Teutonic efficiency they are not.

Maybe place a small wager then chicog if you are confident of failure.

[rixalex]

Now that we are dissecting can someone explain to me the fascination with Welbeck ? Strikes me as over hyped and under talented. At best an OK forward and at worse he offers next to nothing. Too often with a poor first touch and he seems to lack pitch awareness.

Maybe he has that Man United connection going for him. Otherwise I just don't get it.

Areas of his game that could be improved for sure, but he's a great team player, he always gives 100%, he tracks back well, holds the ball up better than anyone in the team, and fights to regain possession. The key to getting the most out of him is where you play him. He'd be better in the Sturridge position, but since Sturridge is better at finishing at the moment than him, he can't play there. Which leaves the decision of either not playing him, or playing him out of position. Manager obviously took the decision to play him. Don't think Danny did too much wrong. Gave the ball away? Perhaps, but he was hardly the only one to do that, was he?

Put it this way, rather have him on the pitch than Milner or Lampard.

[Lite Beer]

[iancnx]

I thought Phil Jones could play at RB? Not sure if that would be a better option. Trouble is there is seemingly not a natural leader in Cahill or Jagielka. Perhaps Hart should get more vocal?

[jellydog]

Now that we are dissecting can someone explain to me the fascination with Welbeck ? Strikes me as over hyped and under talented. At best an OK forward and at worse he offers next to nothing. Too often with a poor first touch and he seems to lack pitch awareness.

Maybe he has that Man United connection going for him. Otherwise I just don't get it.

Areas of his game that could be improved for sure, but he's a great team player, he always gives 100%, he tracks back well, holds the ball up better than anyone in the team, and fights to regain possession. The key to getting the most out of him is where you play him. He'd be better in the Sturridge position, but since Sturridge is better at finishing at the moment than him, he can't play there. Which leaves the decision of either not playing him, or playing him out of position. Manager obviously took the decision to play him. Don't think Danny did too much wrong. Gave the ball away? Perhaps, but he was hardly the only one to do that, was he?

Put it this way, rather have him on the pitch than Milner or Lampard.

I suspect the options are limited Rix, which explains it to some degree.

[carmine]

I thought Phil Jones could play at RB? Not sure if that would be a better option. Trouble is there is seemingly not a natural leader in Cahill or Jagielka. Perhaps Hart should get more vocal?

He can but he's not exactly mobile. Jones is going to be a center back, end of. He might just turn out to be very good one too but he's not a natural right back and he's too clunky to play midfield.

[P45Mustang]

Welbeck or Barkley seem like the options?

I'd give Barkley more of a crack.

[carmine]

Welbeck or Barkley seem like the options?

I'd give Barkley more of a crack.

What i like about Barkley is he's still such an unknown quantity at this level. Same to a large degree probably with sterling, who was really good. They can probably give us an edge.

Start with Sterling and use Barkley as an impact player. Just think he needs to sort out the Rooney situation, how it impacts on the left and decide on how to set up to get maximum effect out of Gerrard.

Back five is ok. The first Italien goal was quality and well executed. The second was down to piss poor defending. Aside of that we just need to take our chances

[P45Mustang]

Welbeck or Barkley seem like the options?

I'd give Barkley more of a crack.

What i like about Barkley is he's still such an unknown quantity at this level. Same to a large degree probably with sterling, who was really good. They can probably give us an edge.

Start with Sterling and use Barkley as an impact player. Just think he needs to sort out the Rooney situation, how it impacts on the left and decide on how to set up to get maximum effect out of Gerrard.

Back five is ok. The first Italien goal was quality and well executed. The second was down to piss poor defending. Aside of that we just need to take our chances

I'd start Barkley instead of Welbeck, and definitely drop Rooney.

Sterling dead cert from the start.

Shaw needs a run imho.

And how we use the Ox would be interesting.

Impact I guess.