Thai Immigration is determined to prevent abuse of visa exceptions

[Straight8]

Lets see you had a great time in Thailand and were prepared to live here but because of a bad experience at immigration, which if true was uncalled for, Thailand is a sewer all because of one guy. Sounds like a anti-Thai rant to me.

Yeah, sure. Otherwise you old geezers applauding for this new crackdown might start looking like naive fools!

[LivinLOS]

Shouldn't be that difficult to figure out the amount that makes you a net contributor. For retirement extensions its 800k. I think the rationale was at 800k/y brought to the country, you're paying enough taxes for the privilege to stay here. That's around 70k/month.

If I had to guess, I think Thailand would be at +-0 when a foreigner brings in around 10t baht per month. Most who have any money use private hospitals, schools, pay large taxes for automobiles, so while subsidized by government, the sum they get back isn't huge.

Precisely. !!

[Concerned expat]

I get fed up with the mantra 'they make it so hard for us to get work permits here'.

Now I must take issue with you Samran, because here in Phuket it is not always that easy to get a WP. I have worked in Phuket, but my 2 initial applications (many years ago) for a WP were rejected by Phuket Labour Office, without reason, (all company documents, employed Thais etc correct). Then my lawyer made a 'small' change to my application involving xx,000 baht and voila! I get my WP.

Fast-forward to this year and I am applying again for a WP (as manager of my new little resort). All paperwork is correct, but my lawyer has warned me that I will not get that WP unless I pay around 50,000 baht bribe.

(BTW, this is not my lawyer trying to rip me off - I have used 2 different lawyers (1 foreign, 1 Thai) for over a decade in Phuket, with very low fees and good service).

So in my efforts to stay legal, I am forced to break the law by paying bribes.......

I wish it were not so, but obtaining a WP in Phuket is not always straightforward at all.

Simon

My experiences are totally different. Sounds to me like there is something wrong with the information/paperwork.

<post was removed>

For a couple defenders of roads built with tax funds and so on:

You are free "not to buy" valid arguments, but it was may be not so well it said from other point:

1. How many expats / farangs would bring their kids to Thailand or would even bother sending kids to Thai School run with tax funds???

2. Many expats / farangs would not be even bothered driving in Thailand as payment of Tuk-Tuk or motorbike taxi looks like a better law obedient option after a drink or two???

3. Majority of expats / farangs from any of G-20 country would NOT need to work in Thailand to pay tax as no income derived from Thailand???

4 Would you all agree that majority of expats / farangs from any G-20 country certainly would not consider "immigrating" to a developing country as Thailand???

5. Majority of expats / farangs from any of G-20 country would simply use the money gained at home country to pay Thai nationals for provided services as it would mot make any sense to try and work in Thailand for some "peanuts / rice money".

As per all above points: Would you agree with economic facts that majority of expats / farangs from any G-20 country actually provided a significant contribution to development of Thailand??? Just remember $2 note for a screw with Thai girl during Vietnam War.

Why on earth expats / farangs from any G-20 country are discriminated or harassed at the border??????? It is a crime at home country for many to attempt / giving bribes to government officials.

How many officials are crystal clean from common corruption at your wonderfully transparent and honest system??? Would it be possible to name at least one??? One of the quotes was about police requesting a bribe for each illegal worker from Burma caught.

Edited May 19, 2014 by ubonjoe
deleted a removed post

[Straight8]

How to prove a negative.

Imm. Off. : "You are working in Thailand."

Foreigner : "No I am not."

Imm. Off. : "You have 7 double-entry tourist visas in 4 years."

Foreigner : "Yes."

Imm. Off. : "You are working in Thailand."

Foreigner : "No I am not."

Imm. Off. : "How do you make a salary?"

Foreigner : "I am independently wealthy."

Imm. Off. : "You are working in Thailand."

Foreigner : "No I am not."

and round and round.

Please show bank account with remittances into Thailand marked.

Anyone living here on money not earned here will be able to show large lumps coming in fairly regularly.

Seems so simple to solve..

So simple exactly... yet Immigration reply would be "You are working in Thailand"

[Genericnic]

Why does having a bit of cash entitle one to stay?

Why should being of 50 years of age or more entitle one to stay?

Because that is the law,work around it if you can.

Yes, we know it IS the law.. The questions, why is that the law ?? Who does that benefit ?? Why does that help Thailand ??

Laws should have some logic or sense no ??

David

[DrTuner]

The 50y for retirement isn't a law. It's a decision taken by the Ministry of Foreign Affairs (I assume it's their job). The law, immigration act ( http://www.immigration.go.th/nov2004/en/doc/Immigration_Act.pdf ) doesn't actually specify types of visas or extensions of stay, only the terms for a temporary stay in Thailand. MFA could lower the age limit if they wanted to.

EDIT: Right, it's these folks who decide on how the act is executed:

The immigration Commission will consist of the Under Secretary of the Minister of Interior as

Chairman and the following members :

- Under Secretary of Ministry of Foreign Affairs

- Director general , Police Department

- Director General , labor Department- Director General , public Prosecution Department

- Secretary General , Board of Investment Committee

- Secretary General , National Security Council

- Director , Tourist Organization of Thailand

- Commander of Immigration Division as member and secretary

Edited May 19, 2014 by DrTuner

[ParadiseLost]

This topic is now beyond the dead horse stage...

How about some new thoughts to ponder:

Many posters are indignant as they have enough money to live here and enjoy life as a perpetual tourist, with occasional trips out for work, or family matters. Sounds like the life of a well heeled criminal to me? Not saying all are criminals, but how does one tell the difference? Perhaps fingerprint scanners will help sort some of those out...

I recall reading somewhere that the problem which led to this clampdown is that the tourist visa and visa-waiver were not being used as they were intended, or not in the manner foreseen by immigration. Logically, if a tourist wants to visit this region Thailand would like to be (and currently is) the best place to base oneself, making easy trips to surrounding countries. For most, not even a tourist visa is required.

Things start to look fishy though, when instead of say 2 weeks in Thailand, followed by trips to Cambodia and Laos, the visa holder turns up at immigration first to extend 30 days and then at the last moment exits and re-enters the country, after 3 months "touring", but has no hotel bookings, travel itinerary and cannot produce 20k baht...

Any visa run (out-in) will now be treated with extra scrutiny, for a while at least. For the 20k, office staff accept traveler cheques in lieu of baht cash so no use complaining about safety... I have carried 1,000 GBP in traveler cheques for years and they have helped to get me many visas. It is my cash-of-last-resort, useless to anyone else.

Personally I have started the money aging process to extend for one year (marriage) as I fear using non-o to do border runs is also going to lead to suspicion that one is working (I'm not). I extended a few years in Koh Samui before but got fed up having to bribe an official to do his job...

[kannot]

They have got this all wrong.

They are doing it to stop illegal workers but from my experience most of the illegal workers are retired expats who are a bit short on pension funds and as such are helping their income with a small profit from a restaurant or bar.

A lot of guys work offshore and fly into Thailand spending big on their break between shifts. These people do not have the ability to get visas and they are true frequent holidaymakers.

Immigration says these people will not be affected but my gut feeling is they will.

Most illegal workers are from Myanmar, Laos, Cambodia, easy to hop over the border, I would think FALANGS are the very tip of the iceberg..............of course easier to catch them + they have a few bob to take whereas the others have nowt, deportation doesnt bother them at all.

[marsipan]

My ED visa runs out 2nd July, but i want to stay in Thailand 3 more month after it expires.

Can i go to Laos for 2-3 days and get a stamp for 3 months? Or is it going to be a problem after the crackdown?

The thing is that i have been to Myanmar 2 times (2012 and 2013)

Thanks

[Mario2008]

You will need to get a single entry tourist visa, good for 60 days and caan be extended by 30 days. Should be possible.

[moe666]

But so, they don't give choice for a person who have money allowance / income from abroad, to live in Thailand, if they're under 50 years.

- So the foreigner are forcing to marry a thai girl / or to have a kid with them to pretend a non O-Visa, or

- So the foreigner to learn Thai language, and apply a ED-Visa, or

- So the foreigner finding a job in Thailand wish is very difficult to get B-Visa & WP, or may invest 10,000,000 baht or

- So the foreigner, will need to invest in a Thailand Elite Card,

or so, going to Philippines / Cambodia, where is too easy to stay, even for 20 years, and make extensions & give only the extensions fees.

Yes live in crap countries with bad food, and corrupt governments who could change there laws as well, then what are you going to do

Laws can change anywhere but at this point in time, countries that are much poorer than Thailand and much more desperately need the income from foreign investors and tourists like Cambodia and the Philippines will continue to be attractive places to enter and live based on their visa laws, which have no indication of changing any time soon. So, if you want an easy and relatively cheap visa option try one of those two countries. For now it's possible to live in Cambodia continuously for life on 1-year visa extensions with no proof of anything required and you get your extension done via an agent for less than US$300 a year (usually about $280-293 depending on the agent), never in person by yourself where it would actually be more complicated. Another option is making a donation to the government to buy citizenship, but that's much more expensive than a lifetime's worth of 1-year extensions. However, the Cambodian government has made it more difficult for foreigners from poorer nations, mostly in South Asia (such as Sri Lanka and Pakistan) and west Africa to enter it's country, with VOA no longer an option for some of these nationals.

You say a lifetimes worth of one year visas, lets be realist here how about a one year visa and hopefully again next year because none of us know what next year will bring

[marsipan]

You will need to get a single entry tourist visa, good for 60 days and caan be extended by 30 days. Should be possible.

Thank you for quick answer!

Ok, I will try crossing the Vientiane border in 5 weeks time. Hope it goes well since I got alot of stuff here in CM

[stevenl]

They have got this all wrong.

They are doing it to stop illegal workers but from my experience most of the illegal workers are retired expats who are a bit short on pension funds and as such are helping their income with a small profit from a restaurant or bar.

A lot of guys work offshore and fly into Thailand spending big on their break between shifts. These people do not have the ability to get visas and they are true frequent holidaymakers.

Immigration says these people will not be affected but my gut feeling is they will.

Most illegal workers are from Myanmar, Laos, Cambodia, easy to hop over the border, I would think FALANGS are the very tip of the iceberg..............of course easier to catch them + they have a few bob to take whereas the others have nowt, deportation doesnt bother them at all.

Good this is not aimed at farang then.

[Maestro]

Removed a troll post and the many replies to it.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Concerned expat]

But so, they don't give choice for a person who have money allowance / income from abroad, to live in Thailand, if they're under 50 years.

- So the foreigner are forcing to marry a thai girl / or to have a kid with them to pretend a non O-Visa, or

- So the foreigner to learn Thai language, and apply a ED-Visa, or

- So the foreigner finding a job in Thailand wish is very difficult to get B-Visa & WP, or may invest 10,000,000 baht or

- So the foreigner, will need to invest in a Thailand Elite Card,

or so, going to Philippines / Cambodia, where is too easy to stay, even for 20 years, and make extensions & give only the extensions fees.

Yes live in crap countries with bad food, and corrupt governments who could change there laws as well, then what are you going to do

Laws can change anywhere but at this point in time, countries that are much poorer than Thailand and much more desperately need the income from foreign investors and tourists like Cambodia and the Philippines will continue to be attractive places to enter and live based on their visa laws, which have no indication of changing any time soon. So, if you want an easy and relatively cheap visa option try one of those two countries. For now it's possible to live in Cambodia continuously for life on 1-year visa extensions with no proof of anything required and you get your extension done via an agent for less than US$300 a year (usually about $280-293 depending on the agent), never in person by yourself where it would actually be more complicated. Another option is making a donation to the government to buy citizenship, but that's much more expensive than a lifetime's worth of 1-year extensions. However, the Cambodian government has made it more difficult for foreigners from poorer nations, mostly in South Asia (such as Sri Lanka and Pakistan) and west Africa to enter it's country, with VOA no longer an option for some of these nationals.

You say a lifetimes worth of one year visas, lets be realist here how about a one year visa and hopefully again next year because none of us know what next year will bring

This is one of available options on planning ahead: just one year at a time. Congratulations to all countries making it difficult to poorer nations: lessons from G-20 with flood of alleged refugees (purely economic migrants) were not wasted.

Hopefully Thai officials could wake up and sort out separate criteria based on the country of actual residence or issued passport. Would South Koreans try to work illegally in Thailand if so many Thais being deported from South Korea for illegal work??? Much the same for G-20 countries. "Food chain" pyramid could help as a reference guide even to a junior immigration officers.

[Straight8]

Why does having a bit of cash entitle one to stay?

Why should being of 50 years of age or more entitle one to stay?

Because that is the law,work around it if you can.

Laws can be changed, and in this case it should. Age should not be the main deciding factor for a retirement visa; money and/or income should. At the moment, a 40 year-old having a net-worth of 2M USD would not qualify for a retirement visa, whereas a 50 year-old having a net worth of 30k USD, most if which would need to be deposited into a Thai bank account to meet the criteria for the retirement visa, would qualify. Which person should be more welcome to stay in Thailand?

Spot on, but then just look at who you are dealing with?

Nothing surprises me more about thai law and logic.. TIT brothers!!

[Pattaya46]

Laws can be changed, and in this case it should.

Age should not be the main deciding factor for a retirement visa; money and/or income should.

At the moment, a 40 year-old having a net-worth of 2M USD would not qualify for a retirement visa,

whereas a 50 year-old having a net worth of 30k USD // would qualify.

Don't you think it would sound stupid to see a 30 yo guy living here on "Retirement visa" ?

50 yo seems a good limit to me, as it's about what the lower limit for retirement is in most countries.

If you are younger than 50 and have "so much money that you should have the right to live here",

then you have better options, like Investment Visa or Privilege Card.

Thailand offers many types of visa, and really many options for yearly extensions.

They must be very few people (if any?) who can't find a solution for them to live here.

[LivinLOS]

Don't you think it would sound stupid to see a 30 yo guy living here on "Retirement visa" ?

Why ?? I retired here at 28..

[4evermaat]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

This topic is now beyond the dead horse stage...

How about some new thoughts to ponder:

Many posters are indignant as they have enough money to live here and enjoy life as a perpetual tourist, with occasional trips out for work, or family matters. Sounds like the life of a well heeled criminal to me? Not saying all are criminals, but how does one tell the difference? Perhaps fingerprint scanners will help sort some of those out...

I recall reading somewhere that the problem which led to this clampdown is that the tourist visa and visa-waiver were not being used as they were intended, or not in the manner foreseen by immigration. Logically, if a tourist wants to visit this region Thailand would like to be (and currently is) the best place to base oneself, making easy trips to surrounding countries. For most, not even a tourist visa is required.

Things start to look fishy though, when instead of say 2 weeks in Thailand, followed by trips to Cambodia and Laos, the visa holder turns up at immigration first to extend 30 days and then at the last moment exits and re-enters the country, after 3 months "touring", but has no hotel bookings, travel itinerary and cannot produce 20k baht...

Any visa run (out-in) will now be treated with extra scrutiny, for a while at least. For the 20k, office staff accept traveler cheques in lieu of baht cash so no use complaining about safety... I have carried 1,000 GBP in traveler cheques for years and they have helped to get me many visas. It is my cash-of-last-resort, useless to anyone else.

Personally I have started the money aging process to extend for one year (marriage) as I fear using non-o to do border runs is also going to lead to suspicion that one is working (I'm not). I extended a few years in Koh Samui before but got fed up having to bribe an official to do his job...

My ED visa runs out 2nd July, but i want to stay in Thailand 3 more month after it expires.

Can i go to Laos for 2-3 days and get a stamp for 3 months? Or is it going to be a problem after the crackdown?

The thing is that i have been to Myanmar 2 times (2012 and 2013)

Thanks

Shortly before your visa expires, do one more border run. Even though the visa is expired, your permission to stay will still be valid for 90 days from that run. Then you can worry about getting a new visa or doing out-in visa runs.

Out-in visa runs when you are using entries from an actual visa (tourist, non-imm, etc) do not count as far as I understand. Not sure why people who already have visas or can obtain them are worried.

[Concerned expat]

Don't you think it would sound stupid to see a 30 yo guy living here on "Retirement visa" ?

Why ?? I retired here at 28..

Hello to all expats. Thailand is not so expensive to "retire" at any age as this would depend on individual circumstances. Nothing wrong with someone having sufficient funds at any age. The name of the visa should not make any difference.

Could anyone clarify if anything changed with visa runs after military sorted out some issues between opposite groups of protesters? Any more examples of hard time at border check points?

[bangkoklasse]

Don't you think it would sound stupid to see a 30 yo guy living here on "Retirement visa" ?

Why ?? I retired here at 28..

Hello to all expats. Thailand is not so expensive to "retire" at any age as this would depend on individual circumstances. Nothing wrong with someone having sufficient funds at any age. The name of the visa should not make any difference.

Could anyone clarify if anything changed with visa runs after military sorted out some issues between opposite groups of protesters? Any more examples of hard time at border check points?

Maybe the name of the Visa don't make any difference. But you can't "legally" get any visa for living here as a retired if you are young. You have to go and come back all the time

[LivinLOS]

Don't you think it would sound stupid to see a 30 yo guy living here on "Retirement visa" ?

Why ?? I retired here at 28..

Hello to all expats. Thailand is not so expensive to "retire" at any age as this would depend on individual circumstances. Nothing wrong with someone having sufficient funds at any age. The name of the visa should not make any difference.

Could anyone clarify if anything changed with visa runs after military sorted out some issues between opposite groups of protesters? Any more examples of hard time at border check points?

Maybe the name of the Visa don't make any difference. But you can't "legally" get any visa for living here as a retired if you are young. You have to go and come back all the time

Extension based on investment

The elite card system

Learn Thai or other study part time.

[marsipan]

This topic is now beyond the dead horse stage...

How about some new thoughts to ponder:

Many posters are indignant as they have enough money to live here and enjoy life as a perpetual tourist, with occasional trips out for work, or family matters. Sounds like the life of a well heeled criminal to me? Not saying all are criminals, but how does one tell the difference? Perhaps fingerprint scanners will help sort some of those out...

I recall reading somewhere that the problem which led to this clampdown is that the tourist visa and visa-waiver were not being used as they were intended, or not in the manner foreseen by immigration. Logically, if a tourist wants to visit this region Thailand would like to be (and currently is) the best place to base oneself, making easy trips to surrounding countries. For most, not even a tourist visa is required.

Things start to look fishy though, when instead of say 2 weeks in Thailand, followed by trips to Cambodia and Laos, the visa holder turns up at immigration first to extend 30 days and then at the last moment exits and re-enters the country, after 3 months "touring", but has no hotel bookings, travel itinerary and cannot produce 20k baht...

Any visa run (out-in) will now be treated with extra scrutiny, for a while at least. For the 20k, office staff accept traveler cheques in lieu of baht cash so no use complaining about safety... I have carried 1,000 GBP in traveler cheques for years and they have helped to get me many visas. It is my cash-of-last-resort, useless to anyone else.

Personally I have started the money aging process to extend for one year (marriage) as I fear using non-o to do border runs is also going to lead to suspicion that one is working (I'm not). I extended a few years in Koh Samui before but got fed up having to bribe an official to do his job...

My ED visa runs out 2nd July, but i want to stay in Thailand 3 more month after it expires.

Can i go to Laos for 2-3 days and get a stamp for 3 months? Or is it going to be a problem after the crackdown?

The thing is that i have been to Myanmar 2 times (2012 and 2013)

Thanks

Shortly before your visa expires, do one more border run. Even though the visa is expired, your permission to stay will still be valid for 90 days from that run. Then you can worry about getting a new visa or doing out-in visa runs.

Out-in visa runs when you are using entries from an actual visa (tourist, non-imm, etc) do not count as far as I understand. Not sure why people who already have visas or can obtain them are worried.

Hello my friend and thank you for reply.

You think its best for me do to a border run and get a single entry from Laos? Can i show my bankbook with 30.000baht from bangkok bank? Im sorry my english is not perfect and i probably should not worry.

Thanks again:)

Sent from my GT-I9082L using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[ubonjoe]

Hello my friend and thank you for reply.

You think its best for me do to a border run and get a single entry from Laos? Can i show my bankbook with 30.000baht from bangkok bank? Im sorry my english is not perfect and i probably should not worry.

Thanks again:)

Sent from my GT-I9082L using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

You can get a single or 2 entry tourist visa in Laos. You could show your bank book if asked for.

[marsipan]

Hello my friend and thank you for reply.

You think its best for me do to a border run and get a single entry from Laos? Can i show my bankbook with 30.000baht from bangkok bank? Im sorry my english is not perfect and i probably should not worry.

Thanks again:)

Sent from my GT-I9082L using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

You can get a single or 2 entry tourist visa in Laos. You could show your bank book if asked for.

Thank you my friend.

Does the money have to be there for 3 months?

Sent from my GT-I9082L using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[ubonjoe]

There is no 3 month requirement to get a visa.

[KonaRain]

Some very good advice..

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?/topic/728822-A-Complete-Tourist-Visa-Episode:-BKK-NONGKHAI-VIENTIANE-NONGKHAI

Sent from my Nexus S 4G using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[KonaRain]

That and 20,000 THB..hard for some (like me) to do, but right now until things shake out..

better safe than...

Aloha

Sent from my Nexus S 4G using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[slipperylobster]

Proof of income is what separates the criminals/illegal workers from those with social security, disabilities, police/fire/military pensions after 20 years of service. Plenty of these guys around. I joined the service when I barely turned 17 ...and could have retired with a pension at 37. (I waited until I was 40).

[Soutpeel]

Don't you think it would sound stupid to see a 30 yo guy living here on "Retirement visa" ?

Why ?? I retired here at 28..

Hello to all expats. Thailand is not so expensive to "retire" at any age as this would depend on individual circumstances. Nothing wrong with someone having sufficient funds at any age. The name of the visa should not make any difference.

Could anyone clarify if anything changed with visa runs after military sorted out some issues between opposite groups of protesters? Any more examples of hard time at border check points?

Maybe the name of the Visa don't make any difference. But you can't "legally" get any visa for living here as a retired if you are young. You have to go and come back all the time

Yes you can, Ed visa, Investment visa, THB 500k TE visa...

there is a difference between "cant" and not wanting to pay for it...