Thai Gunman Kills Two Noisy World Cup Fans

[Phil Conners]

Can we please stop the Pattaya bashing now.

There is a "pattaya haters thread" for you.

Being Thailand's #2 city with over 1.5 million people shit happens from time to time.

Outside of Bangkok

1 Nakhon Ratchasima 2.6 million

2 Chiang Mai 1.7 million

source bureau of statistics

Do you have a URL for that?

Edited June 14, 2006 by madsere

[amatoti]

guys I agree, stop bashing Thailand and Pattaya,

I live in the crime capital city of the world, Johannesburg South Africa, here we have an average 100 murders a day, not to even mention the armed robberies, rape and other crimes, beleive me, Pattaya is a pleasure it is very unfortunate than an isolated incident happened, but it is still way way better than any part of Africa.

I will be moving to Pattaya in the near future, just to get away of this barbarous country and lost continent

So, sit back, relax and enjoy the world cup and enjoy all that Thailand and Pattaya has to offer.

[BlackJack]

well lets hope the shooter capped himself as his finally

[Maejo Man]

Do you have a URL for that?

It was a link from a yahoo search on Thai population that led to the Thai gov bureau of statistics site, and it's out of my browser's memory now sorry.

Yahoo-Thailand provincial population was the search criteria.

[lovetowatchx26]

wel amatotiu you right u lives in very dangerous city but if you live there it is not dangerous for locals same as me i lives in new delhi india . As far as visitor concerned they think too much if even a single murder in a month .

i was in pattaya in may 25 but i spend only 1 night there and i fear too much beacuse last time when i was in pattaya in jan 2006 there was no locl persons in pattaya but this time so many locals i fear too much and i deside not to stay there because it was local to dangerous. so my points is for non thai peoples if you want to go thailand should go in high season <> november to fab> if iam wrong i need your advice forum peoples .

guys I agree, stop bashing Thailand and Pattaya,

I live in the crime capital city of the world, Johannesburg South Africa, here we have an average 100 murders a day, not to even mention the armed robberies, rape and other crimes, beleive me, Pattaya is a pleasure it is very unfortunate than an isolated incident happened, but it is still way way better than any part of Africa.

I will be moving to Pattaya in the near future, just to get away of this barbarous country and lost continent

So, sit back, relax and enjoy the world cup and enjoy all that Thailand and Pattaya has to offer.

[britmaveric]

Actually prefer low season, less crowded and less trouble from my point of view.

[amatoti]

and to think, the next football world cup will be held in South Africa in 2010, I fear all the naive fans who will be going there, they have no idea what is awaiting them, but all I know is that I do not want to be there, i'll much rather take my chances and watch it in a local bar in Pattaya, much safer...but I'll keep my voice down...lol

[Phil Conners]

Do you have a URL for that?

It was a link from a yahoo search on Thai population that led to the Thai gov bureau of statistics site, and it's out of my browser's memory now sorry.

Yahoo-Thailand provincial population was the search criteria.

Could it have been this: http://web.nso.go.th/pop2000/prelim_e.htm ?

I think your stats refer to provinces, not cities.

I'm not sure about the size of Pattaya, 1.5m is what I've heard from different but unofficial sources, however, I also keep hearing in the news that Pattaya is the second largest city in Thailand. It would be interesting to know, but as most Thais in Bangkok and Pattaya are transient workers registered elsewhere an official figure is probably impossible to get.

Anyway, the point is it is getting very tiring every time there is a problem in Pattaya the world will be sure to be told of it with the footnote that Pattaya is known for crime and sex. Those people who add that crap have no idea what it is really like here. I've lived in Pattaya 5 years now and have yet to encounter any problems. Any. Never burgled, never robbed, never drugged, never even felt threathened. In fact it is probably the place of this planet I have felt safest of them all. Even Brussels, Belgium, which generally is very provencial and safe I have been attacked (on the way home from a night out by a group of young arab scumbags, but that's another story). Yes, I read the news and see it on TV, but so did I in so many other places in the world. And as long as you stay east of 2nd road chances are you won't notice the sex either.

Of course there are many times more clime in Bangkok but you don't hear of it because the farang:thai ratio is much much higher.

Edited June 14, 2006 by madsere

[jaapfries]

Is it really necessary to always be derogatory whenever anything happens in Pattaya ?

Sadly the majority of these types of story do seem to come from Pattaya!

Rubbish; I suggest you keep on your silly little backpack and keep on walking (preferably AWAY from Pattaya !).

[jaapfries]

Do you have a URL for that?

It was a link from a yahoo search on Thai population that led to the Thai gov bureau of statistics site, and it's out of my browser's memory now sorry.

Yahoo-Thailand provincial population was the search criteria.

Could it have been this: http://web.nso.go.th/pop2000/prelim_e.htm ?

I think your stats refer to provinces, not cities.

I'm not sure about the size of Pattaya, 1.5m is what I've heard from different but unofficial sources, however, I also keep hearing in the news that Pattaya is the second largest city in Thailand. It would be interesting to know, but as most Thais in Bangkok and Pattaya are transient workers registered elsewhere an official figure is probably impossible to get.

Anyway, the point is it is getting very tiring every time there is a problem in Pattaya the world will be sure to be told of it with the footnote that Pattaya is known for crime and sex. Those people who add that crap have no idea what it is really like here. I've lived in Pattaya 5 years now and have yet to encounter any problems. Any. Yes, I read the news and see it on TV, but so did I in so many other places in the world. And as long as you stay east of 2nd road chances are you won't notice the sex either.

Of course there are many times more clime in Bangkok but you don't hear of it because the farang:thai ratio is much much higher.

===============================================================

Gosh; I am happily surprised that I am not the only one having to stand-up and defend Pattaya.

Thank you madsere !

Oh; if you want to know more about demographics re: Thai cities (or any other city in the world) - have you tried looking at GoogleEarth ? I find this very good & reliable source.

Cheers,

JGK

Pattaya

[Arkady]

What are the laws in Thailand regarding carrying handguns?

Do a lot of private citizens own them to protect their homes.

From one posting, sounds like they are legal as long as they are not carried in a public place??

Does Thailand need stricter handgun controls?

If Thailand prohibited the ownership of handguns perhaps this ugly incident would have ended up in a ugly fist fight, the two men would be alive and the incident would never have made the pages of the papers.

An interesting topic which sets Thailand apart from most Asian countries apart from the Philippines. When Thaksin first came to power he said he would ban private gun ownership and order all the guns handed in like in the UK and Brazil. First of all he said he would make the Kingdom safe enough that no one would need their own gun for protection and citizens would willingly hand them over. That's the first and last we heard of that idea but at the time there were a lot of stats bandied around about gun ownership. I think registered privately owned guns were supposed to be about 20-30 million but illegal unregistered guns were estimated at 50-60 million. So in total there is probably at least one for every man, woman and child in the country. The answer to the one part of the question is that a large number of middle class households have at least one registered gun. Upcountry people often have unregistered shotguns in their homes.

It was quite easy to register a hand gun, shot gun or .22 rifle before Thaksin came to power. He tried to make it harder and asked the gun licencing dept not to issue permits to people who already one or more. The police in the licencing dept in Bangkok complained like hel_l about this saying it was still necessary for citizens to arm themselves for protection. Of course, they are running a nice little racket demanding bribes to issue permits, although it is not a huge amount and it does or did ease the process which would otherwise take a long time. Last I heard it was a flat rate of 6,000 baht. I don't know, if it got harder or whether the limit per person was ever imposed, as I have not been in touch with any one who applied recently, but I would suspect that, after Thaksin lost interest in the issue, it went back to business as usual. I think any Thai resident,including foreigners with permanent residence, who has a respectable job or social standing with testimonial from employer or other puyai and at least 40,000 baht or so in the bank can get a permit. Pre-Thaksin any type of hand gun could be registered from a .22 to a .45. However, Thaksin's control freak rhetoric talked about not allowing .45 revolvers, .44 or .357 magnum revolvers or .22 rifles any more. He was obviously scared that the police could be outgunned in terms of stopping power by .45s and magnums, as they mainly use 9mm semi autos and .38 revolvers which are cheaper to buy and use much cheaper ammunition. He must also have worried that they would be outreached by .22 rifles which have little stopping power but more range and accuracy than a police 9mm or revolver and a head shot will do the trick. Anyway in the event the criminals seem also to prefer 9mm semi autos and .38 revolvers for the same reasons as the police and I doubt whether these restrictions have been enforced.

The standard gun permit allows the holder to keep the gun and ammunition for life at his registered address as on his tabian baan and use it for the protection of his family, householders and property. It does not allow him to carry the gun outside the home or to keep it in his car. Another permit is required to carry a concealed weapon. These are very difficult to come by and have to be renewed annually. Certain categories of people can get them without question e.g. members of the royal family, MPs, senators etc. People doing dangerous work like transporting jewellery or payroll are supposed to be able to get them but I think it requires connections these days.

As to the future I don't see a recall of private guns or a ban on sales any time soon. The UK could easily recall hand guns because there was a fairly small number and they were all carefully accounted for. Brazil banned gun sales as a result of a national referendum. In Thailand no one apart from Thaksin (who seems to have lost interest) is interested in a ban. Even the police favour private gun ownership and they, the military and several other classes of civil servants have special priveliges as individuals to import guns and ammunition free of the very high import duty and can resell them at a profit. As mentioned, MPs and senators are allowed carry permits and the majority no doubt use them. Recalling registered guns would be very difficult as Thais are unlikely to cooperate and they tend not to live at their registered addresses which would make it hard to track them all down, since there are so many of them. I suspect that relatives of deceased registered gun owners often don't bother to register a change of ownership as it is troublesome and involves paying bribes. Even if a recall and ban happened, that would still leave a much larger number of unregistered guns in circulation and many middle class Thais would probably resort to buying illegal guns which are much cheaper anyway. The guy who shot the football fans was in the habit of illegally carrying his registered guns and I am sure these types would carry unregistered guns, if there were a ban. These are cheap and untraceable and can be disposed of after use in a crime. However, a ban would reduce crimes of passion in the home and accidental deaths of children playing with Daddy's gun. The biggest problem is enforcement. Penalties for carrying weapons illegally are not that severe (cf Malaysia where the death penalty can be imposed) and enforcement is lax as the police expect well connected businessmen/gangsters and their bodyguards to carry guns and will look the other way for the right gratuity.

[penzman]

Ah the wonderful "right to bear arms" while sitting at a restaurant where the crab is sooo fresh it may attack you.

Ban firearms!

[kdf]

My husband is a vocal football supporter. Do I have to tell him to contain his joy at a goal just in case he is shot? This is really crap. I feel for the families of the deceased. Did we really have to have the blood and gore pic here??

Hi Goldenbead,

I share in condolences to the families of these men. However, I am not sure it is bad to show the blood and gore. Violent crimes often leave gore. To see it may remind us of the horror of such acts. Perhaps a little less abstraction of such acts can help motivate us against violence. When I read of the all too common articles of people killed in violence or disaster, it can be easy to gloss over it. Seeing a picture helps remind me that these are real people, killed by an act of near random violence, families and friends grieve, etc.. Maybe I will think more about my personal and family's safety and not become complacent and unaware. Maybe reminded of the horror of these events we will look more to preventing them.

On the other hand pictures like this can be seen as a sort of pornography of violence. Maybe their graphic nature makes some recoil and not allow the horror to motivate towards change. Certainly folks have different reactions. Just wanted to express an alternative position.

kdf

[brucegoniners]

Pattaya is a sewer. This is just further evidence of it. Man, a place in Thailand that isn't even as safe as the states!

[britmaveric]

Pattaya is a sewer. This is just further evidence of it. Man, a place in Thailand that isn't even as safe as the states!

English please!!!

[English Noodles]

known for its beaches, its thriving sex industry and high crime rate

Source: Malaysian Star - 14 June 2006

Story originated from here.

Pattaya

[robsamui]

Hey! Nobody's mentioned Samui! This place is the Wild West - a gunslingers paradise.

I was driving down a section of one-way road a month ago. this is a narrow concrete strip that leads out of Fisherman's Village in Bo Phut - just wide enough for one car - hence the one-way thing. A big fat-wheel pick up is coming towards me the wrong way, so I just come to a halt in the middle of the road, facing him, and wait for him to back up.

I can see nothing thru the black windows but i can hear his blaring horn, which I ignore.

So he (a Thai man) leaps out of the cab and angrily advances at me pointing some sort of handgun at my face. Right away I hit reverse and back off the concrete onto the sandy drop-off. He gets back in and roars past me.

And there's a dozen other tales like this in my own expererience...hundreds when you talk to others! Pattaya is kids stuff compared to Samui!

Rob

[Kerryd]

We've been over the topic about how dangerous Pattaya is, and isn't, many, many times.

This story has been sensationalized because of the World Cup. Without that very slim tie-in, we wouldn't be discussing this at all right now, period.

Pattaya's registered population is approx 90,000. That's it. Ninety-thousand.

It has an estimated population of 500,000, which includes ex-pats and Thais from other areas that are living/working here, but are still registered in their home provinces.

I did a lot of research a couple of months ago, about the (serious) crime rates in Pattaya and other major tourist destinations of a similar size, such as Las Vegas, Honolulu, New Orleans (pre-Katrina). Pattaya's serious crime rate (if I recall correctly) was less than half that of the next closest city by comparison.

We've also discussed to death why there seems to be such a problem with crime here. I am getting sick and tired or reminding people that (for the most part) we are fed a steady stream of crap by the local news outlets. They follow the standard media axiom "if it bleeds, it leads".

Those outlets are where most of us get ALL of our news about Pattaya. If the only stories that get regurgitated here on Thai Visa are bad, then it looks like that is all there is, bad stories.

Keep in mind that "feel good/happy" stories generate next to no interest at all. We know. We've tried posting happy-happy stories, and they disappear off the first page in hours, with few views and fewer responses.

You people WANT bad news. The media provides it. Then you bitch about only seeing bad news.

You want something to bitch about ? Go look in the mirror. You are a part (a large part) of the problem.

[gharknes]

Can we please stop the Pattaya bashing now.

There is a "pattaya haters thread" for you.

Being Thailand's #2 city with over 1.5 million people shit happens from time to time.

Agreed let's keep Pattaya bashing off this thread - certainly doesnt have a place here.

I find this whole thing quite disturbing, i lived in troubled northern ireland all my life, it was bad but nobody ever got shot for cheering a goal, &lt;deleted&gt;

Also it happened in pattaya why hide that fact, there are a lot of goings on in this area that don't get posted here, maybe I will start. Everybody needs to know about this stuff

[gharknes]

Pattaya's registered population is approx 90,000. That's it. Ninety-thousand.

It has an estimated population of 500,000, which includes ex-pats and Thais from other areas that are living/working here, but are still registered in their home provinces.

where on earth do you get theses figures from ?

[britmaveric]

I find this whole thing quite disturbing, i lived in troubled northern ireland all my life, it was bad but nobody ever got shot for cheering a goal, &lt;deleted&gt;

Update on yesterdays shooting at a local Pub and Restaurant.

An update now on Tuesday Morning’s shooting and murder of two men at the Food Works Restaurant on Pattaya Third Road. Although the suspected shooter is still at large, his vehicle has been recovered. It was found by officers in Laem Chabaeng at the Talae Tong Tower.

The vehicle, a black Mercedes Benz was taken to Pattaya Police Station where it was broken into and inspected by Police Colonel Somook and other officers. Inside the car was a gun magazine with three bullets inside and other items including a court summons issued to the suspect regarding a previous case where he was charged with carrying a gun in a public place.

Also in the car was registration papers for two guns, both of which correspond to the guns used in the attack. Further information has also come from the crime scene itself. The girlfriend of one of the dead men, Khun Pantipar aged 27 revealed that prior to the shooting she walked past the table where the shooter was sitting and drinking with the owner of the bar when the suspect made a number of suggestive comments towards her.

It is believed that this may have led the shooter to initiate contact with the two victims which eventually led to their deaths.

-Pattaya City News

Wednesday 14th June 2006

Nought to do with the World Cup

[pschef]

Pattaya's registered population is approx 90,000. That's it. Ninety-thousand.

It has an estimated population of 500,000, which includes ex-pats and Thais from other areas that are living/working here, but are still registered in their home provinces.

where on earth do you get theses figures from ?

No Idea I Think Pattaya is much bigger than this, never mind, Its still and will always be the best place and the first place to welcome us farrangs. I live in a small village in Chaing Rai, lots of guys carry Guns, but Im sure they wouldnt use them over af footy game. more too this story than meets the eye. wake up u lot""""

[Kerryd]

Pattaya's registered population is approx 90,000. That's it. Ninety-thousand.

It has an estimated population of 500,000, which includes ex-pats and Thais from other areas that are living/working here, but are still registered in their home provinces.

where on earth do you get theses figures from ?

Why, do you have some other figures ?

Here are a list of links that note Pattaya's population to be somewhere between 65-90,000. Some note that the estimate is more likely to be around 500,000 as I noted previously.

Wikipedia - Pattaya

Pattaya.com Pattaya Info

Thaiways Magazine - Pattaya at a Glance

WorldRoom.com - FastFacts - Pattaya

This one lists the 26 biggest cities in Thailand. Pattaya comes in at #12:

The Reality 26 Biggest City in Thailand

(that one also has links to Thai government websites, which, for the most part, are in Thai. Go figure !)

Remebering of course the difference between the official population, and the estimated. None of the links above suggest Pattaya's population is anywhere near 1 million, let alone 1.5 million. Not even as a wild estimate.

Once I've researched an article/topic/story, I'll usually keep the links for a few days, then delete them to save space and keep "My Favourites" better organized. As a result, when I have to go back weeks and months later, to back up stats I had already researched, I usually have to start all over again from the beginning.

For what it's worth, I take the time to find out the info I post about. It's not unusual for me to spend hours researching information for a single post.

Any other questions ? Sounds like the rain has died down now. Time for a snooze !

[kayo]

god...why? &lt;deleted&gt; is going on with all the rage in the land of zen?

This new millenium is not being kind to LOS.

[Qcumber]

Nobody said the murderer was a Thai.

Edited June 14, 2006 by Qcumber

[Artisan]

Just noticed that there are 413 individuals reading this topic at this time, didn't think it was that big of a news story.

Hi Tywais, maybe it's just because they've responded to the notification e-mail:

Pattaya gunman kills two noisy World Cup fans

Full story:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=72677

Edited June 15, 2006 by Artisan

[Artisan]

Nobody said the murderer was a Thai.

Yes they did...

Pattaya City News 13th June 2006

The initial witness statements suggested that a Thai man driving a Mercedes Benz entered the pub alone and sat with the owner of the venue Khun Bae for almost one hour.....

.....Police Lieutenant General Jongrak, the Region 2 Commander of Police later inspected the scene and revealed that the shooter had been identified. He is Khun Somnook aged 31 and a picture of him was presented to the media.

[Jai Dee]

Thai gunman kills two noisy World Cup fans

Pattaya, about 110 kilometers (70 miles) southeast of Bangkok, is known for its beaches, its thriving sex industry and high crime rate

Source: Malaysian Star - 14 June 2006

================================================================

Excuse me "Jai Dee", but are you absolutely certain about your statement "and high crime rate" with regards to Pattaya-City.

Are you just saying this to add a bit of sensation, or have you actually looked over the crime-rate statistics of this country and it's various cities & areas ?

Look forward to your response, "Jai Dee"

Regards,

JGK

Pattaya

JGK, as you can see from the above quote, my source was the Malaysian Star.

The wording and title of the news bulletin was by an Associated Press reporter, and the same bulletin was released by a number of news sources... including CNN, MSN, and the Malaysian Star.

I posted the bulletin verbatim and unembellished.

[suiging]

The world is flat, the moon is made of cheese, Thickskin is honest, two men were killed for cheering during a football match, all valid statements believed by your average Pattaya basher.

[Sing_Sling]

Is it really necessary to always be derogatory whenever anything happens in Pattaya ?

Sadly the majority of these types of story do seem to come from Pattaya!

I say fair enough. The guys were being noisy. He probabaly warned them and it seems that they wouldn't shut up. So whats a guy gonna do. He's trying to have a quiet drink and these two yobbos were disturbing him.

You are being facetious, aren't you?