Pakistan woman stoned by family outside Lahore court

[F430murci]

In US, police won't stand by all amused watching some loser beat a women to death with sticks and bricks and do nothing to help or intervene. Speaks volumes about you if you cannot or refuse to see the difference.

---------

Pakistan stoning victim's husband condemns police

The husband of a Pakistani woman stoned to death in broad daylight outside a Lahore court says police stood by and did nothing to stop the attack.

Farzana Parveen, who was three months pregnant, was killed by her family on Tuesday for marrying a man she loved.

http://m.bbc.com/news/world-asia-27614359

They watched a loser beat Rodney King, did they not?

Meaning? That the girl in Pakistan deserved what she got? I disagree about Rodney King but he is hardly comparable to the innocent girl beat to death by her own family. Again, speaks volumes if you cannot see the difference.

[boomerangutang]

some of the most abysmal human behavior taking place in one of the most scenic places on the planet. What a contrast.

[simple1]

To think we live in the 21st century while this sort of barbarism takes place.

Fair enough comment, but acts have been committed by some Western countries that do not stand up to our expectations. e.g...

Hundreds of children, if not thousands, have been killed or terribly maimed in this century by the deployment of cluster bombs in countries such as Iraq, Afghanistan & Lebanon.. Thankfully the Convention on Cluster Munitions was enacted in 2010, but many countries have yet to ratify.

[F430murci]

To think we live in the 21st century while this sort of barbarism takes place.

Fair enough comment, but acts have been committed by some Western countries that do not stand up to our expectations. e.g...

Hundreds of children, if not thousands, have been killed or terribly maimed in this century by the deployment of cluster bombs in countries such as Iraq, Afghanistan & Lebanon.. Thankfully the Convention on Cluster Munitions was enacted in 2010, but many countries have yet to ratify.

Really????? More scumbag sicko thinking! . . . From a Muslim convert . . . Surprise!

[Ulysses G.]

To think we live in the 21st century while this sort of barbarism takes place.

Fair enough comment, but acts have been committed by some Western countries that do not stand up to our expectations. e.g...

Hundreds of children, if not thousands, have been killed or terribly maimed in this century by the deployment of cluster bombs in countries such as Iraq, Afghanistan & Lebanon.. Thankfully the Convention on Cluster Munitions was enacted in 2010, but many countries have yet to ratify.

Really????? More scumbag sicko thinking! . . . From a Muslim convert . . . Surprise!

It is eye opening how some posters - and always the same ones - keep trying to change the subject to something else - anything else!

[simple1]

To think we live in the 21st century while this sort of barbarism takes place.

Fair enough comment, but acts have been committed by some Western countries that do not stand up to our expectations. e.g...

Hundreds of children, if not thousands, have been killed or terribly maimed in this century by the deployment of cluster bombs in countries such as Iraq, Afghanistan & Lebanon.. Thankfully the Convention on Cluster Munitions was enacted in 2010, but many countries have yet to ratify.

Really????? More scumbag sicko thinking! . . . From a Muslim convert . . . Surprise!

I was responding to a comment concerning the murder of a female in Pakistan that I agreed with, so hardly 'sicko thinkng'.

I was pointing out that there are many events in this century that are equally cruel and are not solely the domain of inhumane actions by some in the Muslim community.

If you wish to counter kindly do so with a reasoned argument, without the misinformed insults, as such posts just underline how crass you can sometimes be.

[Morch]

To think we live in the 21st century while this sort of barbarism takes place.

Fair enough comment, but acts have been committed by some Western countries that do not stand up to our expectations. e.g...

Hundreds of children, if not thousands, have been killed or terribly maimed in this century by the deployment of cluster bombs in countries such as Iraq, Afghanistan & Lebanon.. Thankfully the Convention on Cluster Munitions was enacted in 2010, but many countries have yet to ratify.

While use of cluster bombs does raise some moral questions, I fail to see it as a direct equivalent of violence directed at

one's own flesh and blood. Use of cluster bombs with the knowledge that there will probably be innocents hurt is deplorable,

but it is not quite the same thing as a direct attack on a defenseless family member.

[Scott]

Let's stick to the topic, please.

[tubby johnson]

To think we live in the 21st century while this sort of barbarism takes place.

Fair enough comment, but acts have been committed by some Western countries that do not stand up to our expectations. e.g...

Hundreds of children, if not thousands, have been killed or terribly maimed in this century by the deployment of cluster bombs in countries such as Iraq, Afghanistan & Lebanon.. Thankfully the Convention on Cluster Munitions was enacted in 2010, but many countries have yet to ratify.

Ah, so that makes the primitive violence of the Pakistani wifebeaters all right then. Thank you for providing us with your reasoned perspective.

[simple1]

To think we live in the 21st century while this sort of barbarism takes place.

Fair enough comment, but acts have been committed by some Western countries that do not stand up to our expectations. e.g...

Hundreds of children, if not thousands, have been killed or terribly maimed in this century by the deployment of cluster bombs in countries such as Iraq, Afghanistan & Lebanon.. Thankfully the Convention on Cluster Munitions was enacted in 2010, but many countries have yet to ratify.

Ah, so that makes the primitive violence of the Pakistani wifebeaters all right then. Thank you for providing us with your reasoned perspective.

Nope. you're obviously a member of the peanut gallery

[i claudius]

It's nothing to do with religion. It's cultural.

dead right "muslim culture"

[Arif Khalil]

Let's stick to the topic, please.

Since is is not a bashing thread there is a turn in this story, the guy (runaway husband of the deceased) had previously killed her wife to marry this girl (it is not religious because he didn't opt for polygamy in this instance) and remained in prison because of his son filed a complaint with police then he could get free by making reconciliation with the in laws.

Also, in this recent case the in laws first demanded money from him to settle down for indecent act of marrying their daughter without their knowledge and permission. Now he is seeking protection and the girl's family refuge from police grab, again for police there is a lot big money from each one involved.

[tubby johnson]

Everywhere Islam goes, trouble seems to follow. From the Philippines in the east to the USA in the west, from the Central African Republic and Nigeria in the south to Scandinavia in the north, muslims reject the rest of humanity and tell us to conform to their beliefs or suffer the consequences. They demand respect, yet give none.

The gruesome stoning in Pakistan is only the latest episode. And yet there are commenters here defending this and offering feeble explanations that we should respect Islamic culture. Why can't muslims just chill and evolve, learn to get along with everyone else? Can we all just keep our religious beliefs as a private and personal matter, whilst seeking to improve and enlighten ourselves instead of arrogant finger-wagging?

Kind regards,

Tubby

[Steely Dan]

Such cultural practices seem to have indeed blessed the west, through immigration. As the recent case in NYC where a Pakistani man murdered his wife for cooking him lentils demonstrates. As does the decapitation of an 18 year old girl in Sheffield with a kitchen knife. Now if you were to jump to conclusions and state both murders involved Muslims you would have a 93% chance of being correct.

Here is a link distinguishing between Muslim and Hindu honor killings for those attempting to make an equivalence argument.

http://www.meforum.org/3287/hindu-muslim-honor-killings

[sustento]

Such cultural practices seem to have indeed blessed the west, through immigration. As the recent case in NYC where a Pakistani man murdered his wife for cooking him lentils demonstrates. As does the decapitation of an 18 year old girl in Sheffield with a kitchen knife. Now if you were to jump to conclusions and state both murders involved Muslims you would have a 93% chance of being correct.

Here is a link distinguishing between Muslim and Hindu honor killings for those attempting to make an equivalence argument.

http://www.meforum.org/3287/hindu-muslim-honor-killings

Not Daniel Pipes again?

[folium]

Such cultural practices seem to have indeed blessed the west, through immigration. As the recent case in NYC where a Pakistani man murdered his wife for cooking him lentils demonstrates. As does the decapitation of an 18 year old girl in Sheffield with a kitchen knife. Now if you were to jump to conclusions and state both murders involved Muslims you would have a 93% chance of being correct.

Here is a link distinguishing between Muslim and Hindu honor killings for those attempting to make an equivalence argument.

http://www.meforum.org/3287/hindu-muslim-honor-killings

On average 2 women a week in the UK are murdered by their partner or ex-partner. Are all those murderers "mooslims"?

This incident in Lahore is a shockingly brutal and public expression of the levels of violence against women seen around the world.

Domestic violence, selective abortions and rape as a weapon of war all underline the level of violence being inflicted on women. Industrial levels of organized rape and murder as recorded in Rwanda, Sri Lanka, Bosnia, DRC (still ongoing), East Pakistan (aka Bangladesh). So that covers Christians, Buddhists, Muslims, Sikhs and animists. Delving back into recent history you could add an estimated 2 million Germans raped by the Red Army, the comfort women/ sex slaves of the Japanese Empire, and the French/Russians during the Boxer War in China or the Germans in SWAfrica.

"To the victor the spoils". Indeed and the loser throughout history and most cultures has been women of every creed, colour and ethnicity.

The events in Lahore are truly shocking and disgusting, but look a little deeper and see that this is just the proverbial tip. This in no way is said to excuse or diminish the guilt of those responsible for the heinous murder in the OP, but if you are shocked or repulsed by that event please understand that this is far more prevalent and common than you may imagine.

[simple1]

Such cultural practices seem to have indeed blessed the west, through immigration. As the recent case in NYC where a Pakistani man murdered his wife for cooking him lentils demonstrates. As does the decapitation of an 18 year old girl in Sheffield with a kitchen knife. Now if you were to jump to conclusions and state both murders involved Muslims you would have a 93% chance of being correct.

Here is a link distinguishing between Muslim and Hindu honor killings for those attempting to make an equivalence argument.

http://www.meforum.org/3287/hindu-muslim-honor-killings

Not Daniel Pipes again?

No, but the author of the report seems to have a deep seated resentment of Muslims after being abused by her Afghani husband in the 1970s. Its a shame that she only now going public that could lead to accusations of bias and undermine her research conclusions.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2429037/Phyllis-Chesler-Writer-72-recalls-months-spent-young-bride-imprisoned-Afghan-compound-finally-escaped.html

[Mosha]

Such cultural practices seem to have indeed blessed the west, through immigration. As the recent case in NYC where a Pakistani man murdered his wife for cooking him lentils demonstrates. As does the decapitation of an 18 year old girl in Sheffield with a kitchen knife. Now if you were to jump to conclusions and state both murders involved Muslims you would have a 93% chance of being correct.

Here is a link distinguishing between Muslim and Hindu honor killings for those attempting to make an equivalence argument.

http://www.meforum.org/3287/hindu-muslim-honor-killings

Not to mention the muslin girls in hiding in UK for marrying a white man. Quite a few documentaries shown of them

[Steely Dan]

Such cultural practices seem to have indeed blessed the west, through immigration. As the recent case in NYC where a Pakistani man murdered his wife for cooking him lentils demonstrates. As does the decapitation of an 18 year old girl in Sheffield with a kitchen knife. Now if you were to jump to conclusions and state both murders involved Muslims you would have a 93% chance of being correct.

Here is a link distinguishing between Muslim and Hindu honor killings for those attempting to make an equivalence argument.

http://www.meforum.org/3287/hindu-muslim-honor-killings

Not Daniel Pipes again?

No, but the author of the report seems to have a deep seated resentment of Muslims after being abused by her Afghani husband in the 1970s. Its a shame that she only now going public that could lead to accusations of bias and undermine her research conclusions.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2429037/Phyllis-Chesler-Writer-72-recalls-months-spent-young-bride-imprisoned-Afghan-compound-finally-escaped.html

Oh I get it, when it comes to Islam having prior experience of it actually disqualifies you as commenting on it with authority. So talking to Salman Rushdie about Fatwas is out, as is talking to Ayaan Hirsi Ali about female genital mutilation in Islamic society or sentences of death for apostasy seeing as she is on the receiving end of both. Progressive logic is indeed the only thing that can send the west back to the stone age when battling against Neanderthals.

[boomerangutang]

Without doubt, horrible crimes against women have been taking place since homo habilis.

We're talking mostly about current problems, here in this thread. If you were to look at a list of crimes against women around the world, currently, you'd see that the majority are carried out by Africans or Muslims or both. One difference, between abuses in Africa and in Muslim countries, is that in the latter, the surviving women (plus family members and community at large) will very often tolerate or even justify atrocities - and maybe even join in on the carnage. In Africa, that's not the case, unless the women are also Muslim.

In Africa, women are speaking out, and doing all they can to try and move toward a less insane situation. In Muslim countries, women largely hide away in dark houses and hope they're not the next victim.

[neverdie]

Let's stick to the topic, please.

I scan my mind trying to contemplate what brings 'people' to this. According to some here, it's about religion, according to others it's about culture. Some suggest it's neither.

I might suggest it has something to do with 'individuals'. All people, irregardless of creed, religion, political outlook, culture or whatever can surely deter in the difference between right or wrong on these MAJOR Levels. I understand someone might inadvertently break a traffic law, but to pick up sticks and bricks and club people to death. To hang a victim by the neck after raping her. To kill a teenage child after he sends a letter. ABSOLUTELY EVERYONE knows these things are wrong. These are barbaric acts carried out by individuals who really are so very low, they must be able to parachute from a snakes backside.

I'm sickened by it all. How does ones society pull itself back from a mess like this. The place needs a really big broom through it.

My point is, it's about individuals. Pathetic individuals.

Don't ask me why I quoted you Scott, really, I've got no idea !

[F430murci]

To think we live in the 21st century while this sort of barbarism takes place.

Fair enough comment, but acts have been committed by some Western countries that do not stand up to our expectations. e.g...

Hundreds of children, if not thousands, have been killed or terribly maimed in this century by the deployment of cluster bombs in countries such as Iraq, Afghanistan & Lebanon.. Thankfully the Convention on Cluster Munitions was enacted in 2010, but many countries have yet to ratify.

Really????? More scumbag sicko thinking! . . . From a Muslim convert . . . Surprise!

It is eye opening how some posters - and always the same ones - keep trying to change the subject to something else - anything else!

Yep! Pathetic!

[F430murci]

Without doubt, horrible crimes against women have been taking place since homo habilis.

We're talking mostly about current problems, here in this thread. If you were to look at a list of crimes against women around the world, currently, you'd see that the majority are carried out by Africans or Muslims or both. One difference, between abuses in Africa and in Muslim countries, is that in the latter, the surviving women (plus family members and community at large) will very often tolerate or even justify atrocities - and maybe even join in on the carnage. In Africa, that's not the case, unless the women are also Muslim.

In Africa, women are speaking out, and doing all they can to try and move toward a less insane situation. In Muslim countries, women largely hide away in dark houses and hope they're not the next victim.

Yes, real men need to be the champions of and protect women. These people are not real men.

I have 3 daughters ranging from 2 1/2 to 18. This dumb areas piece of Muslim trash brought harm to his own daughter and dumb Muslim trash defend that??? I cannot imagine someone hurting any of my daughters. How can this trash culture do harm to their own daughters?

[F430murci]

Such cultural practices seem to have indeed blessed the west, through immigration. As the recent case in NYC where a Pakistani man murdered his wife for cooking him lentils demonstrates. As does the decapitation of an 18 year old girl in Sheffield with a kitchen knife. Now if you were to jump to conclusions and state both murders involved Muslims you would have a 93% chance of being correct.

Here is a link distinguishing between Muslim and Hindu honor killings for those attempting to make an equivalence argument.

http://www.meforum.org/3287/hindu-muslim-honor-killings

Not Daniel Pipes again?

No, but the author of the report seems to have a deep seated resentment of Muslims after being abused by her Afghani husband in the 1970s. Its a shame that she only now going public that could lead to accusations of bias and undermine her research conclusions.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2429037/Phyllis-Chesler-Writer-72-recalls-months-spent-young-bride-imprisoned-Afghan-compound-finally-escaped.html

You may think you sound all intellectual and reasonable, but in reality you sound like pathetic trash.

[Ulysses G.]

No, but the author of the report seems to have a deep seated resentment of Muslims after being abused by her Afghani husband in the 1970s.

And who could blame her?

[F430murci]

No, but the author of the report seems to have a deep seated resentment of Muslims after being abused by her Afghani husband in the 1970s.

And who could blame her?

Yep any women with a brain and the ability to express themselves would have a chip on their shoulder against scum like these people and those that make excuses for them.

[F430murci]

Such cultural practices seem to have indeed blessed the west, through immigration. As the recent case in NYC where a Pakistani man murdered his wife for cooking him lentils demonstrates. As does the decapitation of an 18 year old girl in Sheffield with a kitchen knife. Now if you were to jump to conclusions and state both murders involved Muslims you would have a 93% chance of being correct.

Here is a link distinguishing between Muslim and Hindu honor killings for those attempting to make an equivalence argument.

http://www.meforum.org/3287/hindu-muslim-honor-killings

On average 2 women a week in the UK are murdered by their partner or ex-partner. Are all those murderers "mooslims"?

This incident in Lahore is a shockingly brutal and public expression of the levels of violence against women seen around the world.

Domestic violence, selective abortions and rape as a weapon of war all underline the level of violence being inflicted on women. Industrial levels of organized rape and murder as recorded in Rwanda, Sri Lanka, Bosnia, DRC (still ongoing), East Pakistan (aka Bangladesh). So that covers Christians, Buddhists, Muslims, Sikhs and animists. Delving back into recent history you could add an estimated 2 million Germans raped by the Red Army, the comfort women/ sex slaves of the Japanese Empire, and the French/Russians during the Boxer War in China or the Germans in SWAfrica.

"To the victor the spoils". Indeed and the loser throughout history and most cultures has been women of every creed, colour and ethnicity.

The events in Lahore are truly shocking and disgusting, but look a little deeper and see that this is just the proverbial tip. This in no way is said to excuse or diminish the guilt of those responsible for the heinous murder in the OP, but if you are shocked or repulsed by that event please understand that this is far more prevalent and common than you may imagine.

More pond scum!

[simple1]

Such cultural practices seem to have indeed blessed the west, through immigration. As the recent case in NYC where a Pakistani man murdered his wife for cooking him lentils demonstrates. As does the decapitation of an 18 year old girl in Sheffield with a kitchen knife. Now if you were to jump to conclusions and state both murders involved Muslims you would have a 93% chance of being correct.

Here is a link distinguishing between Muslim and Hindu honor killings for those attempting to make an equivalence argument.

http://www.meforum.org/3287/hindu-muslim-honor-killings

Not Daniel Pipes again?

No, but the author of the report seems to have a deep seated resentment of Muslims after being abused by her Afghani husband in the 1970s. Its a shame that she only now going public that could lead to accusations of bias and undermine her research conclusions.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2429037/Phyllis-Chesler-Writer-72-recalls-months-spent-young-bride-imprisoned-Afghan-compound-finally-escaped.html

You may think you sound all intellectual and reasonable, but in reality you sound like pathetic trash.

Actually I was flagging a concern that could possibly dilute the impact of content of some of the points in the URL from Steely Dan; I was not refuting the content. It seems you are so blinded that you are unable to comprehend any form of nuance.

You cannot just cease your personal attacks, with regular likes by some on this forum. Its completely against forum rules to personally attack a member that you may disagree with and really indicates a dullard. For reasons I do not comprehend why the Mods do not take action against you for your repeated posts in contradiction to forum rules that is consistent behaviour by you across a number of topics.

[simple1]

Such cultural practices seem to have indeed blessed the west, through immigration. As the recent case in NYC where a Pakistani man murdered his wife for cooking him lentils demonstrates. As does the decapitation of an 18 year old girl in Sheffield with a kitchen knife. Now if you were to jump to conclusions and state both murders involved Muslims you would have a 93% chance of being correct.

Here is a link distinguishing between Muslim and Hindu honor killings for those attempting to make an equivalence argument.

http://www.meforum.org/3287/hindu-muslim-honor-killings

..and don't forget that India was run by the Moguls (muslims) for centuries... ..a lot of muslim customs trickled down to everyday life.

Honour killing is overwhelmingly a muslim phenomenon.

From the URL you sight, it contradicts your assertion Hindu honor killing are a' trickle down' from from the Muslim community

“According to Hindu religious law and tradition, marrying or having sexual relations with a member of a different caste is strictly forbidden. So, too, is romantic involvement with someone.

The vast majority of Hindu honor killings target young Indians suspected of violating one of these two commandments. In northern India, the murders are often explicitly sanctioned or even mandated by caste-based councils known as khap panchayats”

[boomerangutang]

"Although Islam does not specifically endorse killing female family members, some honor killings involve allegations of adultery or apostasy, which are punishable by death under Shari'a (Islamic law). Thus, the belief that women who stray from the path can be rightly murdered is consistent with such Islamic teachings. The refusal of most Islamic authorities to unambiguously denounce the practice (as opposed to merely denying that Islam sanctions it) only encourages would-be honor killers."

"A 2011 survey by the Thomson Reuters Foundation ranked Pakistan as the third most dangerous country in the world for women (India was fourth)."

source

It's not realistically feasible, but in theory, could a Pakistani or Indian woman get to the embassy of, let's say, the USA and seek political asylum? After all, they're being severely persecuted for their beliefs. In many cases, they're being threatened with disfigurement and death for wanting to have a mate of their choice.

In the 1960's and 70's, there was a rural hippie place called 'The Farm' or 'Steve Gaskin's Farm' in eastern US. Steven's main wife (he had a bunch of lovers, ...free love, and all that) was an adept mid-wife. The Farm's policy: any female who was having trouble with a pregnancy (runaway boyfriend, disapproving parents, contemplating abortion, etc), could come to the Farm, and have the baby, no questions asked, no expenses. If the woman wanted to keep the baby, fine. If not, she could leave it to be brought up by the many hippies at the Farm. For 2 years, I dated a woman who was born there.

In a sense, the Farm was a safe haven for oppressed and/or troubled women. In a utopian world, safe havens like the Farm could be set up. In screwed up countries like India and Pakistan, they would have to have midieval type wall/gates/guards if they could exist at all. But still, I'm just wondering what can be done by concerned people - to try and assist multitudes of severely threatened youngsters, mostly women.