Bank account upon death

[northernjohn]

The Law states that you have to have a Will in any country you have an immoveable asset, such as a business or property.

As for bank accounts it will really depend on the bank manager at the branch. But if you have a will in Thailand your "Executor" can access any property or funds, I have a Thai Will, written in English and translated into Thai naming someone I trust as the Executor, witnessed by two people at the same time. a foreigner does not need it witnessing by the Amphur, this is for Thais.

I also have a Will in England where I still have assets. the only time you can use a UK will in another country is by using the "Apostile" system, which means you gain probate on your UK Will, then send the document to the Foreign and Commonwealth Office (FCO) to have the Apostile stamp put on the Deed of Probate. this can then be used within any country that is a part of the "Apostile" system. the Apostile will cost your £30 per copy.

the simplest method, is to get a Will drawn up in Thailand. I used Expat Wills, a UK Will writer who also works here in Thailand, who then sent certificates to my next of kin and Executor telling them of the whereabouts of my Will and what to do when the time came....

why would anyone live in Thailand, have assets that they don't want to go totally to their wife, but not have a Will or Power of Attorney, this would cause untold problems for the family on death or if they lost mental capacity due to illness or accident.

Because I have nothing to have people fight over here. My TV my refrigerator and my computer's these are things that the wife's family will absorb when I leave. Also as I have said I do not have a private bank account. The wife is signed on to every one of them and I have left a list of my ATM and Visa cards along with the pin numbers to access them. There are many people living here in Thailand the same as me. They die the wife automatically takes the pot's and pan's along with the kitchen ware. None of it is registered in my name or her name it is common property.

I can understand the will if you have property of one kind or another in your name. Or a private bank account. Or other people in a position to contest for your possessions. But that is not the case with a lot of us.

I have money invested out side the country and my wife is named as the beneficiary. To facilitate it I have signed papers giving my son power of attorney in case of my passing. I trust him. He has visited often and knows my wife. When I moved to Thailand I made it a commitment. I got rid of all my possessions in Canada with the exception of a few valuable books that will go to the son holding them. I even went so far as to give my car to my ex. So as you can see there is no need for a will. The money I have invested I have been instructed by mmy three sons that not to worry about them take care of me and my wife.

[khunPer]

Make a will in Thailand; preferably a so-called Civil Documented will at the amphur (need 2 witnesses). A will can be a simple document written in either Thai or your native language or both. There is no inheritance tax. A Thai will shall only cover assets in Thailand, if you have foreign assets that shall be covered with a national will in that country. (Source: Thai Law for Foreigners, page 77-78.)

Eventually also let your wife have the code for the ATM (or Internet banking).

Source: Thai Law for Foreigners, page 77-78

Do you have a link for this?

"Thai Law for Foreigners" by Benjawan Poomsan Becker & Roengsak Thongkaew, Paiboon Publishing, www.paiboonpublishing.com, ISBN 978-1-887521-57-4.

[BlackJack]

OK heres the drum

The Executor has to be approved by the Thai court

it took 3 months to get it to court

now wait 2 weeks for the court to approve the Executor and another 2 weeks to hear any challenges to the Executor being appointed

Once you have the court approval then you can take that paper to the bank

the money in the bank has to be distributed as per your Will

debts and costs have to be cleared

So your wife is in for a wait.

[BlackJack]

Make a will in Thailand; preferably a so-called Civil Documented will at the amphur (need 2 witnesses). A will can be a simple document written in either Thai or your native language or both. There is no inheritance tax. A Thai will shall only cover assets in Thailand, if you have foreign assets that shall be covered with a national will in that country. (Source: Thai Law for Foreigners, page 77-78.)

Eventually also let your wife have the code for the ATM (or Internet banking).

Source: Thai Law for Foreigners, page 77-78

Do you have a link for this?

"Thai Law for Foreigners" by Benjawan Poomsan Becker & Roengsak Thongkaew, Paiboon Publishing, www.paiboonpublishing.com, ISBN 978-1-887521-57-4.

Specify that the Will covers assets in Thailand only

also take out the word revoke as if you have a "Last Will" that revokes other Wills then you could have an international incident on your hands

[opalred]

im puting atm card bank books in pockets taking them with me cheers

[personchester]

I printed a "Last Will and Testament " in English language for the benefits of my wife, then went to

the banks where I hold my accounts.

The bank Mangers stated the following ...

Get the English language translated into Thai language.

Then present it in page 1 and page 2. (the English page, and the translated Thai page)

Print our Bank Name and Address on top of the two pages of your Testament

Then visit a Lawyer in order to confirm your Testament, plus 2 witnesses from his office.

-------------------------------------------------------------------

I had to do this for each bank with their own bank name on top of the Testament page, then visited the lawyers office to confirm this, and two witnesses to sign.

I then visited each bank with their own addressed two folded pages (English & Thai) to ensure their agreement and it was accepted by the bank managers, thus my wife will get the outlined benefits.

[NancyL]

OK heres the drum

The Executor has to be approved by the Thai court

it took 3 months to get it to court

now wait 2 weeks for the court to approve the Executor and another 2 weeks to hear any challenges to the Executor being appointed

Once you have the court approval then you can take that paper to the bank

the money in the bank has to be distributed as per your Will

debts and costs have to be cleared

So your wife is in for a wait.

This has been my observation, also. Anyone who thinks otherwise is deluding themselves. But, of course, they won't be around to see the heartache and hardship they cause by their shortsighted, lazy actions. Come on, guys, most of you are retired and have time available. Do it right while you can. Do you really expect your loved ones to be able to navigate the choppy waters of international banks, investment and pension funds after you're gone? Get it all set up properly, with a Final Will.

[Jip99]

Make a will in Thailand; preferably a so-called Civil Documented will at the amphur (need 2 witnesses). A will can be a simple document written in either Thai or your native language or both. There is no inheritance tax. A Thai will shall only cover assets in Thailand, if you have foreign assets that shall be covered with a national will in that country. (Source: Thai Law for Foreigners, page 77-78.)

Eventually also let your wife have the code for the ATM (or Internet banking).

Source: Thai Law for Foreigners, page 77-78

Do you have a link for this?

"Thai Law for Foreigners" by Benjawan Poomsan Becker & Roengsak Thongkaew, Paiboon Publishing, www.paiboonpublishing.com, ISBN 978-1-887521-57-4.

Specify that the Will covers assets in Thailand only

also take out the word revoke as if you have a "Last Will" that revokes other Wills then you could have an international incident on your hands

Good idea.

Even better if you cross-reference the 2 Wills (or incorporate it in an expression of wishes letter)

[zziffle]

OK heres the drum

The Executor has to be approved by the Thai court

it took 3 months to get it to court

now wait 2 weeks for the court to approve the Executor and another 2 weeks to hear any challenges to the Executor being appointed

Once you have the court approval then you can take that paper to the bank

the money in the bank has to be distributed as per your Will

debts and costs have to be cleared

So your wife is in for a wait.

This has been my observation, also. Anyone who thinks otherwise is deluding themselves. But, of course, they won't be around to see the heartache and hardship they cause by their shortsighted, lazy actions. Come on, guys, most of you are retired and have time available. Do it right while you can. Do you really expect your loved ones to be able to navigate the choppy waters of international banks, investment and pension funds after you're gone? Get it all set up properly, with a Final Will.

Now I'm even more confused than usual.

BlackJack seems to be describing a 4 month court process when a will is in effect.

NancyL seems to be saying that having a will can eliminate this hassle.

The two reports are contradictory.

I guess it would be helpful if someone could report with certainty the amount of hassle and delay executors and beneficiaries can expect when a will is in place and when it is not. I'm asking from the perspective of someone whose executor and beneficiaries will likely be my children living outside of Thailand.

Cheers...

[Jip99]

OK heres the drum

The Executor has to be approved by the Thai court

it took 3 months to get it to court

now wait 2 weeks for the court to approve the Executor and another 2 weeks to hear any challenges to the Executor being appointed

Once you have the court approval then you can take that paper to the bank

the money in the bank has to be distributed as per your Will

debts and costs have to be cleared

So your wife is in for a wait.

This has been my observation, also. Anyone who thinks otherwise is deluding themselves. But, of course, they won't be around to see the heartache and hardship they cause by their shortsighted, lazy actions. Come on, guys, most of you are retired and have time available. Do it right while you can. Do you really expect your loved ones to be able to navigate the choppy waters of international banks, investment and pension funds after you're gone? Get it all set up properly, with a Final Will.

Now I'm even more confused than usual.

BlackJack seems to be describing a 4 month court process when a will is in effect.

NancyL seems to be saying that having a will can eliminate this hassle.

The two reports are contradictory.

I guess it would be helpful if someone could report with certainty the amount of hassle and delay executors and beneficiaries can expect when a will is in place and when it is not. I'm asking from the perspective of someone whose executor and beneficiaries will likely be my children living outside of Thailand.

Cheers...

If there is a Will it needs to be 'proved'. That requires a court process.

Sometimes, if the there are no other assets, it may be worth relying on the Thai rules of intestacy.

[personchester]

OK heres the drum

The Executor has to be approved by the Thai court

it took 3 months to get it to court

now wait 2 weeks for the court to approve the Executor and another 2 weeks to hear any challenges to the Executor being appointed

Once you have the court approval then you can take that paper to the bank

the money in the bank has to be distributed as per your Will

debts and costs have to be cleared

So your wife is in for a wait.

This has been my observation, also. Anyone who thinks otherwise is deluding themselves. But, of course, they won't be around to see the heartache and hardship they cause by their shortsighted, lazy actions. Come on, guys, most of you are retired and have time available. Do it right while you can. Do you really expect your loved ones to be able to navigate the choppy waters of international banks, investment and pension funds after you're gone? Get it all set up properly, with a Final Will.

Now I'm even more confused than usual.

BlackJack seems to be describing a 4 month court process when a will is in effect.

NancyL seems to be saying that having a will can eliminate this hassle.

The two reports are contradictory.

I guess it would be helpful if someone could report with certainty the amount of hassle and delay executors and beneficiaries can expect when a will is in place and when it is not. I'm asking from the perspective of someone whose executor and beneficiaries will likely be my children living outside of Thailand.

Cheers...

If there is a Will it needs to be 'proved'. That requires a court process.

Sometimes, if the there are no other assets, it may be worth relying on the Thai rules of intestacy.

Re: Last Will Testament:

It does not require a court process ... the printed Testament page has to be brought to a lawyer's office and if the Testament is properly printed (or written) then the lawyer will confirm it by stamping and signing the page, and two of his employers will also sign to confirm as witnesses.

Fellows that can not print or write the correct outline of a "Last Will & Testament" should ask the lawyers to entirely do the print for them.

The applicants Testament should originally be printed (or written) in his home language, and must then be translated on a new page into the Thai language, the two pages have to be stamped and signed by the lawyer, and witnesses, and then have to be tied together like a small bundle to be presented when the time comes.

[BlackJack]

OK heres the drum

The Executor has to be approved by the Thai court

it took 3 months to get it to court

now wait 2 weeks for the court to approve the Executor and another 2 weeks to hear any challenges to the Executor being appointed

Once you have the court approval then you can take that paper to the bank

the money in the bank has to be distributed as per your Will

debts and costs have to be cleared

So your wife is in for a wait.

This has been my observation, also. Anyone who thinks otherwise is deluding themselves. But, of course, they won't be around to see the heartache and hardship they cause by their shortsighted, lazy actions. Come on, guys, most of you are retired and have time available. Do it right while you can. Do you really expect your loved ones to be able to navigate the choppy waters of international banks, investment and pension funds after you're gone? Get it all set up properly, with a Final Will.

Now I'm even more confused than usual.

BlackJack seems to be describing a 4 month court process when a will is in effect.

NancyL seems to be saying that having a will can eliminate this hassle.

The two reports are contradictory.

I guess it would be helpful if someone could report with certainty the amount of hassle and delay executors and beneficiaries can expect when a will is in place and when it is not. I'm asking from the perspective of someone whose executor and beneficiaries will likely be my children living outside of Thailand.

Cheers...

If there is a Will it needs to be 'proved'. That requires a court process.

Sometimes, if the there are no other assets, it may be worth relying on the Thai rules of intestacy.

I am the legal Executor of a Will and I wrote of my experience in Thailand. Its still going on and will take another week where I should be appointed Executor. Once this happens then 2 more weeks for challenges. If all OK then I get a letter from the court and then I can go to the banks and government offices and start the process at the Land Office, the Dept of Business (DBD), Embassy(s), dispersal of assets to the beneficiaries.

If like what I am dealing with as above, where the family children are living outside Thailand, then your children will be like fish out of water. As although the Will maybe in Thai and English the rest of the process is mostly in Thai.

I was Power of Attorney before the Testator died and then became the Executor.

ALL Wills whether Thai or Farang need to go to court. Rules of intestacy do exist however if referring to the above about your daughters if they are not next of kin in line (succession) then they will not get your assets.

If you have property ie land and house or condominiums when you pass, then a whole new adventure starts for your family.

PM me as I do the above all the time.

[BlackJack]

dont confuse people

the Will is written (can be in several ways) even video taped as I did for a Living Will

it is signed by the testator and 2 witnesses

if the testator passes then the Will has to go to court so that the Executor is approved

If there is no Will then someone (next of kin, etc. Lawyer) has to go to court

[Jip99]

dont confuse people

the Will is written (can be in several ways) even video taped as I did for a Living Will

it is signed by the testator and 2 witnesses

if the testator passes then the Will has to go to court so that the Executor is approved

If there is no Will then someone (next of kin, etc. Lawyer) has to go to court

The video is a good idea - even better if the spouse is there as well.

[personchester]

My accounts are all joint. The one's bearing interest are unavailable on my bank card so I had the wife sign on also either one of us can access them.

I find this very important as in the case of my death she has instant cash to take care of the expenses and live on for a while until the money from over seas gets here.

I used to have joint accounts with my thai wife until she decided to take 3.5 million baht to, in her words, protect it for me

I was wondering how long it would take for that kind of post would come up. How is she doing with it. Is it invested wisely.

Maybe you are like I was out of control with my spending. I have a friend with a great deal of money who had to get some body to help him manage it.

Yeah since i spend 20,000 baht a month for food and utilities she said i spend money too easy. I do not go to the bar and am not spending money on anything except the family but she still figured she could take care of it better than I can.

She complained that i was wasting money when i spent 12,000 baht on a new oven so i can bake pies and cookies for the family but she spent 13,000 baht on a nose job for herself. Just the type of person I want handling my money.

She ended up using most of the money to buy a townhouse that isn't worth what she paid for it and a piece of land that will be worth more someday because they will build a new road past it someday. She has been trying to sell both for the last year with no luck.

Bottom line is just because you think you can trust your spouse today does not mean that you will be able to trust them in the future.

I do not intent to have joint accounts with my Thai wife, I do provide every month enough money for her to deal with her normal life style..

In addition I provide all the money needed for large purchases for her, and her family, thus my financial support for her is 100% and she does not need joint accounts, she always ask me very politely for obtaining additional money for her and her family and she is always very thankful after receiving it.

In the past she has been in hospital for Cancer treatment and the medical treatment was successful, the hospital cost was expensive 1,845.000 - Bt. and I made the payment via cashiers cheques.

My wife knows I have made a Last Will Testament to the banks entirely for her benefit and she is not upset that I do not offer joint bank accounts.

[JimGant]

Blackjack,

What's your take on Amphur Wills? A lot of discussion about these, on several different threads. And a lot of confusion. Here's one such thread:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/618983-the-importance-of-preparing-a-will-in-thailand/page-8

Thanks.

[orang37]

If you will please contact me immediately after your death, and let me know where your gold, or other assets, are hidden, I will be happy to dispose of them per your wishes. I offer this as a no-fee public service, as I am sure you would do the same for me (if I had any assets other than hypertrophied vocabulary, that is).

~o:37;

[NancyL]

If you will please contact me immediately after your death, and let me know where your gold, or other assets, are hidden, I will be happy to dispose of them per your wishes. I offer this as a no-fee public service, as I am sure you would do the same for me (if I had any assets other than hypertrophied vocabulary, that is).

~o:37;

orang37 is probably better equipped to handle "incoming" contact from us after death than just about anyone else around here!

[JimGant]

OK heres the drum

The Executor has to be approved by the Thai court

it took 3 months to get it to court

now wait 2 weeks for the court to approve the Executor and another 2 weeks to hear any challenges to the Executor being appointed

Once you have the court approval then you can take that paper to the bank

the money in the bank has to be distributed as per your Will

debts and costs have to be cleared

So your wife is in for a wait.

This has been my observation, also. Anyone who thinks otherwise is deluding themselves. But, of course, they won't be around to see the heartache and hardship they cause by their shortsighted, lazy actions. Come on, guys, most of you are retired and have time available. Do it right while you can. Do you really expect your loved ones to be able to navigate the choppy waters of international banks, investment and pension funds after you're gone? Get it all set up properly, with a Final Will.

Nancy, if I remember correctly, you, at one time, went the Amphur route for your Will, and had a copy filed with your bank manager. The understanding was: bring the death certificate of the testator (husband, in this case) to the bank upon death -- and, voila, you'll inherit your husband's bank account. But, then -- again, as I recall -- the bank manager later reniged (apologize if my fading memory is in error).

So, now, you're resigned to have to go through the court process, resulting in 4 months, or so, of legal hocus pocus?

I agree a solid Will is needed -- in case the banks, land offices, motor vehicles office, et al require a probate process before assets will find their beneficiaries. But, probate is NOT required in all cases -- unless the parties involved insist on such:

Under Thai Law, applying for a grant of probate is not necessary unless the owner of an asset to be transferred requires it or there is a dispute regarding the will or the gifts it contains

So, are you now resigned to probate to inherit your husband's bank account?

[NancyL]

JimGant -- Hubby is still very much alive, so I haven't had a chance to test out that Amphur Will.

I am, however, in the process of settling the estate for a friend who named me as Executor, but I'm still waiting for U.S. Social Security to claim a payment they made after death before trying to close one of the accounts at the same bank. The bank didn't want to close the other accounts and transfer them solely to me until until that Social Security account was good-to-go. Something about the paperwork having to go to Bangkok for approval and they wanted to close all the accounts at the same time.

We'll see in a few weeks and I'll report on whether they tell me the whole shee-bang has to go to probate, I hope not because this situation is also a very clean, simple situation where the only assets involved are bank accounts at one branch bank where all players were well-known to the staff, directives of the Final Will are very specific and no one is contesting anything.

[BlackJack]

keep repeating to yourselves

executor

executor

executor

then one day you will understand the hocus pocus

[NancyL]

keep repeating to yourselves

executor

executor

executor

then one day you will understand the hocus pocus

Blackjack, what I'll find out in a couple weeks is if an Executor can be accepted by a bank without being approved by a court in a probate process -- if the only assets involved are accounts in that bank.

That's what the bank claimed would be permitted in the case of my husband and me and covered by our Amphur Will. Haven't had a chance to test that out yet, fortunately.

But, I am about to find out in a similar situation, same bank, where I'm the executor for a friend. Not an Amphur Will, but a simple Will, two witnesses, done in English, in Thailand.

So far, the bank says it's going to be accepted without the need to go to court, but it's not a done deal yet.

Stay tuned.

[LawrenceChee]

Peace

Sent from my iPod touch using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[BlackJack]

The only thing I do is by the book

because if someone comes out of the wood work with a claim then I dont want them suing me.

I go to the court and get the courts approval to then take their paperwork to the bank to disperse the assets to the beneficiaries.

The court has the Will with all the assets in it.

If I dont do what the Will says and disperse that assets then I have an issue as I need to go back to the court to show the court that I have done it by the book.

I am just covering my ----- thats all.

[JimGant]

The only thing I do is by the book

because if someone comes out of the wood work with a claim then I dont want them suing me.

Well, let's first establish that you work in a Thai law office -- or so I understand per your postings on this forum. And, secondly, that all Thai law firms we've seen on this forum, or through Google, hold out that every Will has to go through the court process -- at least to "validate" the executor (also called the administrator), and to proceed to probate.

Nonsense. Thai Civil Code dictates that the testator can appoint whomever he/she wishes as the executor. The court only becomes involved where an executor has not been appointed by the testator -- or where a third party contests the testator's naming of that executor. That the court has to "validate" whomever the testator has named as executor in a non contested situation is pure bunk. It makes absolutely no sense, and is not mentioned in Thai Civil Code. However, it sure could start the clock ticking on billable hours.

Non contested Wills do not need go through probate. This is stated at various sites, should you care to Google them. Why a simple Will, leaving only a bank account to one's spouse, would have to go through probate in a non contested situation -- is beyond reason (but, I guess, not billable hours).

Also as stated through many Google searches, a Thai Will is "valid" if it follows Thai procedures for form and witnesses, but it doesn't have to be "notarized" (a feature, apparently, available to larger law firms), or be "registered," as are Amphur Wills (prepared in-house, or "secret" sealed versions). Yes, certain agencies, like the Land Office, might feel more comfortable with a "notarized" or "registered" Will -- but this is not entirely necessary from a legal standpoint (but, getting your local reading on this ahead of time is certainly warranted).

Thus, we arrive at Nancy's friend, who had a simple Will, non notarized or registered -- but perfectly legal under Thai law. And we see a bank manager who understands the situation, having met with the concerned prior to death. He is being confronted only with a valid Will, so he is covered when he releases assets to the named beneficiary. There is no one to contest this action up front -- except maybe the Lawyers Council of Thailand -- being robbed of billable hours in "validating" the executor, and running this non contested asset through probate.

The Executor has to be approved by the Thai court -- it took 3 months to get it to court -- now wait 2 weeks for the court to approve the Executor and another 2 weeks to hear any challenges to the Executor being appointed.

Once you have the court approval then you can take that paper to the bank -- the money in the bank has to be distributed as per your Will -- debts and costs have to be cleared

So, if Nancy's friend had hired you, and paid 5,000 baht to prepare a Will, Nancy would be waiting some 16 weeks to be approved by the court? (With a minimum 10,000 baht court processing fee?) Instead, if Nancy's testator's Will end runs the court, and is accepted by the bank, as written and witnessed, events are streamlined -- and no billable hours are added to the process (gosh, I hope the billable hours don't include time in the queue line....).

Yes, in complicated situations (certainly not this one), a lawyer and the court process may need to come into effect. Otherwise, the more we read about the Will process in Thailand, and what Thai lawyers state as required -- the more we understand the universal nature of lawyer jokes.

Go Nancy!!

[BlackJack]

The only thing I do is by the book

because if someone comes out of the wood work with a claim then I dont want them suing me.

Well, let's first establish that you work in a Thai law office -- or so I understand per your postings on this forum. And, secondly, that all Thai law firms we've seen on this forum, or through Google, hold out that every Will has to go through the court process -- at least to "validate" the executor (also called the administrator), and to proceed to probate.

Nonsense. Thai Civil Code dictates that the testator can appoint whomever he/she wishes as the executor. The court only becomes involved where an executor has not been appointed by the testator -- or where a third party contests the testator's naming of that executor. That the court has to "validate" whomever the testator has named as executor in a non contested situation is pure bunk. It makes absolutely no sense, and is not mentioned in Thai Civil Code. However, it sure could start the clock ticking on billable hours.

Non contested Wills do not need go through probate. This is stated at various sites, should you care to Google them. Why a simple Will, leaving only a bank account to one's spouse, would have to go through probate in a non contested situation -- is beyond reason (but, I guess, not billable hours).

Also as stated through many Google searches, a Thai Will is "valid" if it follows Thai procedures for form and witnesses, but it doesn't have to be "notarized" (a feature, apparently, available to larger law firms), or be "registered," as are Amphur Wills (prepared in-house, or "secret" sealed versions). Yes, certain agencies, like the Land Office, might feel more comfortable with a "notarized" or "registered" Will -- but this is not entirely necessary from a legal standpoint (but, getting your local reading on this ahead of time is certainly warranted).

Thus, we arrive at Nancy's friend, who had a simple Will, non notarized or registered -- but perfectly legal under Thai law. And we see a bank manager who understands the situation, having met with the concerned prior to death. He is being confronted only with a valid Will, so he is covered when he releases assets to the named beneficiary. There is no one to contest this action up front -- except maybe the Lawyers Council of Thailand -- being robbed of billable hours in "validating" the executor, and running this non contested asset through probate.

The Executor has to be approved by the Thai court -- it took 3 months to get it to court -- now wait 2 weeks for the court to approve the Executor and another 2 weeks to hear any challenges to the Executor being appointed.

Once you have the court approval then you can take that paper to the bank -- the money in the bank has to be distributed as per your Will -- debts and costs have to be cleared

So, if Nancy's friend had hired you, and paid 5,000 baht to prepare a Will, Nancy would be waiting some 16 weeks to be approved by the court? (With a minimum 10,000 baht court processing fee?) Instead, if Nancy's testator's Will end runs the court, and is accepted by the bank, as written and witnessed, events are streamlined -- and no billable hours are added to the process (gosh, I hope the billable hours don't include time in the queue line....).

Yes, in complicated situations (certainly not this one), a lawyer and the court process may need to come into effect. Otherwise, the more we read about the Will process in Thailand, and what Thai lawyers state as required -- the more we understand the universal nature of lawyer jokes.

Go Nancy!!

Well Jim

your evidence from Google is overwhelming and I have no rebuttal.

Google wins over Thai Law.

Arm chair lawyers win every time on forums.

Go Nancy!

[oxymoron]

I have just asked an Australian bank the same thing and even with a joint account, they would want 'proof of death' to allow all the funds to go to one of the account holders. Proof of death I assume is a death cert. Doubt a pic of a dead body with name pinned to chest would do, but it might do in Thai

Rubbish my sister emptied and "closed" a joint account I had with my mother using a "Power of Attorney" When I complained to ANZ about the ability to close the account since mum and I needed 100 point ID check to open it, their response was our policy, if you want to know what happened ask your sister.

[zziffle]

[ quote removed ]

Well, let's first establish that you work in a Thai law office -- or so I understand per your postings on this forum. And, secondly, that all Thai law firms we've seen on this forum, or through Google, hold out that every Will has to go through the court process -- at least to "validate" the executor (also called the administrator), and to proceed to probate.

Nonsense. Thai Civil Code dictates that the testator can appoint whomever he/she wishes as the executor. The court only becomes involved where an executor has not been appointed by the testator -- or where a third party contests the testator's naming of that executor. That the court has to "validate" whomever the testator has named as executor in a non contested situation is pure bunk. It makes absolutely no sense, and is not mentioned in Thai Civil Code. However, it sure could start the clock ticking on billable hours.

Non contested Wills do not need go through probate. This is stated at various sites, should you care to Google them. Why a simple Will, leaving only a bank account to one's spouse, would have to go through probate in a non contested situation -- is beyond reason (but, I guess, not billable hours).

Also as stated through many Google searches, a Thai Will is "valid" if it follows Thai procedures for form and witnesses, but it doesn't have to be "notarized" (a feature, apparently, available to larger law firms), or be "registered," as are Amphur Wills (prepared in-house, or "secret" sealed versions). Yes, certain agencies, like the Land Office, might feel more comfortable with a "notarized" or "registered" Will -- but this is not entirely necessary from a legal standpoint (but, getting your local reading on this ahead of time is certainly warranted).

Thus, we arrive at Nancy's friend, who had a simple Will, non notarized or registered -- but perfectly legal under Thai law. And we see a bank manager who understands the situation, having met with the concerned prior to death. He is being confronted only with a valid Will, so he is covered when he releases assets to the named beneficiary. There is no one to contest this action up front -- except maybe the Lawyers Council of Thailand -- being robbed of billable hours in "validating" the executor, and running this non contested asset through probate.

[ another quote removed ]

So, if Nancy's friend had hired you, and paid 5,000 baht to prepare a Will, Nancy would be waiting some 16 weeks to be approved by the court? (With a minimum 10,000 baht court processing fee?) Instead, if Nancy's testator's Will end runs the court, and is accepted by the bank, as written and witnessed, events are streamlined -- and no billable hours are added to the process (gosh, I hope the billable hours don't include time in the queue line....).

Yes, in complicated situations (certainly not this one), a lawyer and the court process may need to come into effect. Otherwise, the more we read about the Will process in Thailand, and what Thai lawyers state as required -- the more we understand the universal nature of lawyer jokes.

Go Nancy!!

Well Jim

your evidence from Google is overwhelming and I have no rebuttal.

Google wins over Thai Law.

Arm chair lawyers win every time on forums.

Go Nancy!

It's not a question of rebuttal or winning. We're just looking to get the truthful facts communicated in this thread.

If Thai civil law defied common sense by mandating that all appointments of executors and execution of uncontested wills go through court process, it would be easy to rebut Google simply by quoting the statute section(s) where this is mandated.

I looked (Google helped).

Section 1711. The administrators of an estate shall included the persons appointed by will or by order of the Court.

Section 1712. An administrator of the estate by will may be appointed:

1. By the testator himself; or
2. By the person nominated for the purpose in the will

Section 1713. Any heir or any other interested person or the Public Prosecutor may apply to the Court to appoint an administrator of the estate in the following cases:

1. If on the death of the de cujus any statutory heir or legatee is not found or is abroad or is a minor;
2. If the administrator of the estate or the heir is unable or unwilling to carry on or is impeded in carrying on the administration or distribution of the estate
3. If a testamentary disposition appointing an administrator of the estate has no effect for any reason whatsoever

Such appointment shall be made by the Court in accordance with the provisions of the will, if any. Failing such provision the Court may make the appointment for the benefit of the estate, having regard to the circumstances and taking into consideration the intention of the de cujus as the Court may think fit.

One "may" involve the courts, but it is not the case that one must.

JimGant's suggestion that it is all about billable hours is likely spot on. It is a benefit to the legal profession to spread misinformation that executors of uncontested wills need to be validated by a court, but is a dishonest exploitation of the client during a stressful time when they are trying to get the estate settled with a minimum of hassle, delay and expense.

[BlackJack]

[ quote removed ]

Well, let's first establish that you work in a Thai law office -- or so I understand per your postings on this forum. And, secondly, that all Thai law firms we've seen on this forum, or through Google, hold out that every Will has to go through the court process -- at least to "validate" the executor (also called the administrator), and to proceed to probate.

Nonsense. Thai Civil Code dictates that the testator can appoint whomever he/she wishes as the executor. The court only becomes involved where an executor has not been appointed by the testator -- or where a third party contests the testator's naming of that executor. That the court has to "validate" whomever the testator has named as executor in a non contested situation is pure bunk. It makes absolutely no sense, and is not mentioned in Thai Civil Code. However, it sure could start the clock ticking on billable hours.

Non contested Wills do not need go through probate. This is stated at various sites, should you care to Google them. Why a simple Will, leaving only a bank account to one's spouse, would have to go through probate in a non contested situation -- is beyond reason (but, I guess, not billable hours).

Also as stated through many Google searches, a Thai Will is "valid" if it follows Thai procedures for form and witnesses, but it doesn't have to be "notarized" (a feature, apparently, available to larger law firms), or be "registered," as are Amphur Wills (prepared in-house, or "secret" sealed versions). Yes, certain agencies, like the Land Office, might feel more comfortable with a "notarized" or "registered" Will -- but this is not entirely necessary from a legal standpoint (but, getting your local reading on this ahead of time is certainly warranted).

Thus, we arrive at Nancy's friend, who had a simple Will, non notarized or registered -- but perfectly legal under Thai law. And we see a bank manager who understands the situation, having met with the concerned prior to death. He is being confronted only with a valid Will, so he is covered when he releases assets to the named beneficiary. There is no one to contest this action up front -- except maybe the Lawyers Council of Thailand -- being robbed of billable hours in "validating" the executor, and running this non contested asset through probate.

[ another quote removed ]

So, if Nancy's friend had hired you, and paid 5,000 baht to prepare a Will, Nancy would be waiting some 16 weeks to be approved by the court? (With a minimum 10,000 baht court processing fee?) Instead, if Nancy's testator's Will end runs the court, and is accepted by the bank, as written and witnessed, events are streamlined -- and no billable hours are added to the process (gosh, I hope the billable hours don't include time in the queue line....).

Yes, in complicated situations (certainly not this one), a lawyer and the court process may need to come into effect. Otherwise, the more we read about the Will process in Thailand, and what Thai lawyers state as required -- the more we understand the universal nature of lawyer jokes.

Go Nancy!!

Well Jim

your evidence from Google is overwhelming and I have no rebuttal.

Google wins over Thai Law.

Arm chair lawyers win every time on forums.

Go Nancy!

It's not a question of rebuttal or winning. We're just looking to get the truthful facts communicated in this thread.

If Thai civil law defied common sense by mandating that all appointments of executors and execution of uncontested wills go through court process, it would be easy to rebut Google simply by quoting the statute section(s) where this is mandated.

I looked (Google helped).

Section 1711. The administrators of an estate shall included the persons appointed by will or by order of the Court.

Section 1712. An administrator of the estate by will may be appointed:

1. By the testator himself; or
2. By the person nominated for the purpose in the will

Section 1713. Any heir or any other interested person or the Public Prosecutor may apply to the Court to appoint an administrator of the estate in the following cases:

1. If on the death of the de cujus any statutory heir or legatee is not found or is abroad or is a minor;
2. If the administrator of the estate or the heir is unable or unwilling to carry on or is impeded in carrying on the administration or distribution of the estate
3. If a testamentary disposition appointing an administrator of the estate has no effect for any reason whatsoever

Such appointment shall be made by the Court in accordance with the provisions of the will, if any. Failing such provision the Court may make the appointment for the benefit of the estate, having regard to the circumstances and taking into consideration the intention of the de cujus as the Court may think fit.

One "may" involve the courts, but it is not the case that one must.

JimGant's suggestion that it is all about billable hours is likely spot on. It is a benefit to the legal profession to spread misinformation that executors of uncontested wills need to be validated by a court, but is a dishonest exploitation of the client during a stressful time when they are trying to get the estate settled with a minimum of hassle, delay and expense.

I think the biggest problem here is that these quotes are all translated from Thai language.

If, may, etc. are all problematic when the whole of the Thai Laws are translated (ราชกิจจานุเบกษา).

I would rather spend a few bucks and get it done right than represent myself.

NO DOUBT all the paperwork that the bank will produce will be in Thai. So will all of the other paperwork from the Amphur, the death Certificate, release papers, etc.

Those among you that can read Thai and understand the Thai Law should feel confident in signing these legal documents. SO hands up those that know the difference between a Thai Power Of Attorney and a release form from a bankster.

Others that dont speak, read, write Thai are blindly signing documents that may get the desired end result or may land you in trouble.

Billable hours is AmericanSpeak - as Thailand does not bill this way.

Dishonest exploitation of a client - give me a break. This is when clients are most vulnerable and sign documents that they cannot read.

Would you do this in your own country? NO.

Thailand law does not attract the same costs as the USA or EU or UK - far from it.

[BlackJack]

OK heres the drum

The Executor has to be approved by the Thai court

it took 3 months to get it to court

now wait 2 weeks for the court to approve the Executor and another 2 weeks to hear any challenges to the Executor being appointed

Once you have the court approval then you can take that paper to the bank

the money in the bank has to be distributed as per your Will

debts and costs have to be cleared

So your wife is in for a wait.

This has been my observation, also. Anyone who thinks otherwise is deluding themselves. But, of course, they won't be around to see the heartache and hardship they cause by their shortsighted, lazy actions. Come on, guys, most of you are retired and have time available. Do it right while you can. Do you really expect your loved ones to be able to navigate the choppy waters of international banks, investment and pension funds after you're gone? Get it all set up properly, with a Final Will.

Now I'm even more confused than usual.

BlackJack seems to be describing a 4 month court process when a will is in effect.

NancyL seems to be saying that having a will can eliminate this hassle.

The two reports are contradictory.

I guess it would be helpful if someone could report with certainty the amount of hassle and delay executors and beneficiaries can expect when a will is in place and when it is not. I'm asking from the perspective of someone whose executor and beneficiaries will likely be my children living outside of Thailand.

Cheers...

the delay is in getting a court dates - if you need to go - which seems to be the debate at the moment

different Wills - different processes

there are laws for who can be the Executor as well

and there are laws for who can be a beneficiary