Immigration clarifies and confirms overstay crackdown

[BestBitterPhuket]

If they copied singapore, overstayers would be shaking. There it is mandatory caning (yes, whipping) and 6 months in jail for overstaying LESS than 90 days. Imagine that introduced in Thailand.

[Pattaya46]

THE POINT IS THIS; MOST OF US HAVE EARNED THE RIGHT TO BE IN THAILAND

BECAUSE WE HAVE WORKED SOME 50 YEARS AND HAVE A PENSION AND SAVINGS!

A little bit pretentious, not?

As a farang you have absolutely no "right" to live in Thailand.

Thailand is kind enough to let us easily live here. Thanks to them.

[John1thru10]

“It is time to stop. If you live in a country, you respect its rules.”

Gen Thatchai also warned that foreigners caught on overstay can expect no right of appeal to be granted.

There's probably some TV members that disagree with this statement but moan about how the illegal immigrants have ruined their country. You certainly can't have both ways, regardless of ethnicity, staying in a country illegally shouldn't be tolerated.

Good on them for doing the right thing, no right of appeal once it's been proved that you've broken the law. In a perfect western world the same would apply instead of dragging out the deportation process for months or years. Think of the costs to the tax payer.

Personally, I never sit around complaining about 'foreigners' in my home country. That's what you do it would seem, but I have enough experience around the world to understand that would be a shallow view.

Edited July 9, 2014 by John1thru10

[Mango Bob]

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It's good to see Thailand trying to get rid of more of its trash.

I'll just never understand why you old guys think your personal, judgemental opinions of people you've never met, are so important to post all the time that way. This is an information forum: not your personal opinion blog.

I'm sorry, but I come here for actual information, not your hateful judgements You are no authority figure, in life, or on a forum somewhere.

more trash to be throw away. How many times have you overstayed?

[Pattaya46]

Although the form currently states that any foreigners caught overstaying by less than a year

will be banned from re-entering the Kingdom for five years,

please note that this will only apply to foreigners who overstay by more than 90 days

I think this 90-days period is a mistake. We will continue to see many posts of people recommending to others to not bother with a extension or a visarun for just a few weeks because "there is no risk doing an overstay".

In many countries the Immigration Officer has a large liberty of decision (from nothing, a small warning,... to a strong ban sentence) depending of each special case. If a Thai officer get to control someone in a 30-days overstay who clearly choose the overstay option rather than a visa, it should have the possibility to ban him... IMHO.

[larsjohnsson]

Think of all the money that will be lost. This doesn't seem like a good idea. Taking money out of an economy rarely makes it grow. Strange.

I think your comment is strange. So they should promote and hope for more overstay to make money then ??

[kuifje]

Right on. The long overstayers are many times marginal persons. Rather spending money on drinking or whatever instead of doing proper visa applications. Or indeed criminal figures who are wanted in another country and affraid of crossing borders. If you want to live in Thailand, respect the rules and regulations.

[John1thru10]

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Think of all the money that will be lost. This doesn't seem like a good idea. Taking money out of an economy rarely makes it grow. Strange.

I don't think they care and the money loss will be minimal if they can eradicate all the criminals and drifters, improve the tourism market and encourage 'real paying' tourists to visit the country......because less face it, these rules only effect those who don't have a lot of money, are too lazy to get a real visa, or are not in a position to apply for a visa because they are wanted on some system somewhere!

Right on. The long overstayers are many times marginal persons. Rather spending money on drinking or whatever instead of doing proper visa applications. Or indeed criminal figures who are wanted in another country and affraid of crossing borders. If you want to live in Thailand, respect the rules and regulations.

Oh give it a rest - overstayers spend their money on drinking. I've met about 100 retirees here who do nothing but sit on a barstool day and night, complaining about a couple of baht, talking endlessly about how 'evil' they imagine Thai women to be, and forcing young women to sit next to them in an act of complete self delusion. I'm sure there are plenty of overstayers who do the same, but this forum is basically the 'old right wing alcoholic' hang out. Enjoy.

Edited July 9, 2014 by John1thru10

[larsjohnsson]

How do you explain a man in his 20's or 30's, living in Thailand for a number of years, with no visible means of support, no job in their home countries, no education and no skills?

It's called wealth and there's a lot of people well under 50 years of age here who have a huge chunk of money at their disposal.

In my experience the most obnoxious of them tend to have inherited it.

Then they would not live in the cheapest apertments. And eating noodle soup in the streets.

Most younger people that I meet here, and that lives here. Either work as a teacher or some kind of online work. Most if them without proper visa/wp

[MrWorldwide]

Right on. The long overstayers are many times marginal persons. Rather spending money on drinking or whatever instead of doing proper visa applications. Or indeed criminal figures who are wanted in another country and affraid of crossing borders. If you want to live in Thailand, respect the rules and regulations.

Seems like I'm a multi-tasker, having been previously accused of being a barfly whoremonger yet somehow I found the time to get permission to remain in the Kingdom until the end of September 2015, subject to the usual 90-day reporting. If the overstayers had really wanted to sort things out with Immigration they could have - my guess is that many of them arent keen to go anywhere near Immigration because they are working or entered Thailand with some sort of problem hanging over their heads elsewhere.

[george]

A few off-topic post was removed.

This topic is regarding overstay only

[p_brownstone]

Being one who has always had a visa and only ever overstayed by one day (several years ago after getting my return flight date wrong), I do not see a problem with tightening the rules.

and what if that happened again to somebody else like yourself but got stopped on the way to the airport, goodbye girlfriend or wife for 5 years, it can happen, it happened to you, and it possibly will happen again

Immigration confirmed that the bans will only apply to people who overstay by 90 days or more (confirmed in the first post of this thread) so that won't happen will it.

it also states if you live in a country to respect its rules, and the rules include from 1 day up overstay, but in Thailand one never knows what the rules are because they change every day

Absolute nonsense.

Patrick

[larsjohnsson]

Right on. The long overstayers are many times marginal persons. Rather spending money on drinking or whatever instead of doing proper visa applications. Or indeed criminal figures who are wanted in another country and affraid of crossing borders. If you want to live in Thailand, respect the rules and regulations.

Seems like I'm a multi-tasker, having been previously accused of being a barfly whoremonger yet somehow I found the time to get permission to remain in the Kingdom until the end of September 2015, subject to the usual 90-day reporting. If the overstayers had really wanted to sort things out with Immigration they could have - my guess is that many of them arent keen to go anywhere near Immigration because they are working or entered Thailand with some sort of problem hanging over their heads elsewhere.

What kind of visa/ extension of stay do you have? That let you stay 15-16 months with 90 day reporting.

Didn't you write before that you got a non-O ?

Edited July 9, 2014 by larsjohnsson

[MrWorldwide]

@jarsjohnsson,

Apparently not - check with ubonjoe but I believe it's actually an 'extension of stay' even though the first stamp does have 'Non-O' at the top of it. My understanding is that you can only get an actual visa - as opposed to an extension of stay - from a Consulate but again I'm happy to hear otherwise. Whatever it is, I dont have to go back to Immi until ~30 Sep 2014 and right now that makes me happy.

[larsjohnsson]

I would guess you count both your visa non-O. And the extension of stay that have not started yet

[Golftraveler]

What if a foreigner has had an overstay in the past and paid fines upon departure but is current with their visa status? Will these laws be retroactive?

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[OJAS]

The link in the OP appears to answer the question I have been asking about the detail of people APPREHENDED on overstay under one year getting a 5 year ban, even if the overstay is under 90 days.

It's odd though that the text people are now being asked to sign includes the text giving the apparently WRONG impression that an overstay of even one day would result in a 5 year ban IF APPREHENDED.

I am reading "caught" and "apprehended" (the word on the form) as being the same thing.

Hopefully, assuming this "crackdown" actually goes through, this correction can also be made on the form and well communicated to immigration enforcement and the foreigners potentially impacted.

Lt Col Banphot Kittivira, Deputy Superintendent of the Immigration checkpoint at Sadao, on the Malaysian border, confirmed that his office received a copy of the new form.

“Although the form currently states that any foreigners caught overstaying by less than a year will be banned from re-entering the Kingdom for five years, please note that this will only apply to foreigners who overstay by more than 90 days,” he said.

“Any foreigners who overstay less than 90 days will be subjected to the normal 500-baht a day fine.”

- See more at: http://www.phuketgazette.net/phuket-news/Immigration-looks-enforce-life-ban-overstays-within/31105#ad-image-1

But there will still appear to exist the absurd situation whereby 10-year-+ overstayers will be banned for life if they turn themselves in but only banned for 10 years if they keep their heads down until caught!

Edited July 9, 2014 by OJAS

[jimn]

Come on folks, let's get real!

​At last count, there are 13 different types of visas available in Thailand which allow you to legally stay in the Kingdom for at least one year at a time. (retirement, marriage, employment, business and etc.)

​The normal progression is to switch from the Visa Upon Arrival > to the Non-Immigrant O Visa > the new One Year Visa.

For most of us on a Retirement Visa the cost is 1,900 Baht for the Non Immigrant O and 1,900 Baht for the Retirement Visa. Once you have the Retirement Visa, you do not need to renew the Non Immigrant O- so the cost is 1,900 Baht per year to renew the Retirement Visa.

I am all sure we know many people who are abusing the system by using nefarious means and "visa agencies" that can charge up to 21,000 Baht for getting a "legal visa".

How do you explain a man in his 20's or 30's, living in Thailand for a number of years, with no visible means of support, no job in their home countries, no education and no skills?

The ones I have met came here on a holiday, got bitten by the Thailand bug and decided there is no future in their home country, so they decide to stay in Thailand - whatever the cost. Their means of support usually involves pleading with relatives to wire them some money, ripping off tourists, dealing drugs or whatever in order to stay here.

THE POINT IS THIS; MOST OF US HAVE EARNED THE RIGHT TO BE IN THAILAND BECAUSE WE HAVE WORKED SOME 50 YEARS AND HAVE A PENSION AND SAVINGS!

For the most part, those individuals that are illegally staying here are not man enough to get a job or 2 jobs if necessary, live frugally, stay out of the bars, advance their education, save their money and finally come to Thailand with a pension and savings - as we have done ourselves.

THE BEST THING FOR THEM IS TO GET BOOTED OUT OF THAILAND AND GO HOME AND START ACTING LIKE A RESPONSIBLE HUMAN BEING!!

Well said what a great post and in my experience in Thailand as a retiree totally true.

[John1thru10]

i think the truth about blacklisting, is that once blacklisted a person would have a very difficult time entering again under any circumstance. No, I can't prove that, but I've read before over the years that it's the case.

I just think, if a person was banned for 'x' years, then showing up again in 'x years a 1 day' would probably be met with a very unfriendly attitude.

[Sarana]

I feel its time Thailand gave some respect to its foreign residents and granted permanent residency to retirees and citizenship to those married to a Thai instead of having to front up to immigration every three months.Rental agreement registration also leaves one the mercy of unscrupulous landlords and land sharks.

[BudRight]

I feel its time Thailand gave some respect to its foreign residents and granted permanent residency to retirees and citizenship to those married to a Thai instead of having to front up to immigration every three months.Rental agreement registration also leaves one the mercy of unscrupulous landlords and land sharks.

You're right. That will make you very unpopular around here. Except about the land sharks - they were hunted to extinction by the French.

[Sarana]

There are different types of tourism: travel and leisure. You can legally stay on Thailand for 6 months just to kick back and relax or use it as a base to explore other countries on SE Asia. But if you are on a pension or have limited income, it takes time to save money for these trips. Ideally, the time to travel is when your visa is due to expire. The cost of visa renewal (fares, accom) is covered BT the travel expenses. I contribute as much to the Thai economy every month as any luxury tourist and I spend it in the local community.

[John1thru10]

Come on folks, let's get real!

How do you explain a man in his 20's or 30's, living in Thailand for a number of years, with no visible means of support, no job in their home countries, no education and no skills?

I can exlain it, just for edification. Many people, especially younger generations, have jobs which are not easily classifiable. And there's no checkbox for it, or 'employer' in that traditional way. That doesn't mean they are taking advantage of people. Some people do, for sure. But many people not.

Today's economies often rely on self employment, often over the internet for example. and often without traditional retirement benefits or specific employers. I'm a composer, for example. I can write music anywhere. It doesn't take advantage of people, it doesn't put any other person out of work anywhere I happen to be, it doesn't 'absuse' a system or involve some kind of dishonesty. And, if that exists for me, then I can only imagine there are millions of occupations and situations around the world which - particularly in 2014 - aren't defined in traditional old school ways. For example, 6 months ago I did a kickstarter campaign to fund an animated film I'm making, and raised 10,000 euro. Illegal somehow? No, not at all. Or...I can go to Germany for a month, or England of America, do some concerts and earn enough to live on for year in a place like Thailand. In a case like that, I don't have an 'employer' per say. I have 20. And every theater or music venue I perform in certainly doesn't offer some kind of 'official' status or ritirement plan, that's for sure. I was invited to be there, had a work permit for one week, was paid, provided transporation to and from Thailand by them, and then left and came back. I don't see how that is 'taking advantage'. And please, I'd love to meet more border officials who could understand that. And when they do, they love me. They want to talk about music all day and become facebook friends. That's how I got my visa right now, in fact. Thai people like me about 10,000x more than the people here who constantly write that I'm supposedly not welcome here, ha

It might not be completely typical, I understand. But I just wish you guys could remember that it's a huge world full of billions of people. Not everyone fits into your preconceived ideas about employment. Why I care what you write here, I don't know. I see these intense headlines in my email box, and get pulled into these discussions. But please, stop judging every person who doens't fit into your box. I'll bet, in the end, that not fitting into someone else's box is why most of you are here in the first place.

Edited July 9, 2014 by John1thru10

[JLCrab]

I feel its time Thailand gave some respect to its foreign residents and granted permanent residency to retirees and citizenship to those married to a Thai instead of having to front up to immigration every three months.Rental agreement registration also leaves one the mercy of unscrupulous landlords and land sharks.

You're right -- time's up. Just go the Ministry of Foreign Affairs (MoFA) or the Immigration HQ (still) at Suan Phlu and look for this:

[larsjohnsson]

Come on folks, let's get real!

How do you explain a man in his 20's or 30's, living in Thailand for a number of years, with no visible means of support, no job in their home countries, no education and no skills?

I can exlain it, just for edification. Many people, especially younger generations, have jobs which are not easily classifiable. And there's no checkbox for it, or 'employer' in that traditional way. That doesn't mean they are taking advantage of people. Some people do, for sure. But many people not.

Today's economies often rely on self employment, often over the internet for example. and often without traditional retirement benefits or specific employers. I'm a composer, for example. I can write music anywhere. It doesn't take advantage of people, it doesn't put any other person out of work anywhere I happen to be, it doesn't 'absuse' a system or involve some kind of dishonesty. And, if that exists for me, then I can only imagine there are millions of occupations and situations around the world which - particularly in 2014 - aren't defined in traditional old school ways. For example, 6 months ago I did a kickstarter campaign to fund an animated film I'm making, and raised 10,000 euro. Illegal somehow? No, not at all. Or...I can go to Germany for a month, or England of America, do some concerts and earn enough to live on for year in a place like Thailand.

It might not be completely typical, I understand. And there are definitely people who really are taking advantage of others in bad ways. I just get annoyed when I see the judgements, because they are usually so very limited. I'm not saying that 'my job is better than yours' or anything like that. I'm just saying, that statement, I read it every day here, and it's just not accurate.

When making big money in short time on music, having concerts in other countries. Then the 5 year Elite card would be perfect for you

[Sarana]

I think there should be encouragement for a range of budgets and not just the high end promoted by the previous Shinawatra regime in the luxury category. People just doubled their prices. With wages so low I do not see how these high prices be justified. Tourism in Thailand was founded on the backpacker culture and I'm sure its time to tighten the rules and cut back on border

runs and legal overstayers, but it also may be a good time to reward the legals a better deal.

[John1thru10]

Come on folks, let's get real!

How do you explain a man in his 20's or 30's, living in Thailand for a number of years, with no visible means of support, no job in their home countries, no education and no skills?

I can exlain it, just for edification. Many people, especially younger generations, have jobs which are not easily classifiable. And there's no checkbox for it, or 'employer' in that traditional way. That doesn't mean they are taking advantage of people. Some people do, for sure. But many people not.

Today's economies often rely on self employment, often over the internet for example. and often without traditional retirement benefits or specific employers. I'm a composer, for example. I can write music anywhere. It doesn't take advantage of people, it doesn't put any other person out of work anywhere I happen to be, it doesn't 'absuse' a system or involve some kind of dishonesty. And, if that exists for me, then I can only imagine there are millions of occupations and situations around the world which - particularly in 2014 - aren't defined in traditional old school ways. For example, 6 months ago I did a kickstarter campaign to fund an animated film I'm making, and raised 10,000 euro. Illegal somehow? No, not at all. Or...I can go to Germany for a month, or England of America, do some concerts and earn enough to live on for year in a place like Thailand.

It might not be completely typical, I understand. And there are definitely people who really are taking advantage of others in bad ways. I just get annoyed when I see the judgements, because they are usually so very limited. I'm not saying that 'my job is better than yours' or anything like that. I'm just saying, that statement, I read it every day here, and it's just not accurate.

When making big money in short time on music, having concerts in other countries. Then the 5 year Elite card would be perfect for you

Thanks for the suggestion, I actually should look into that, I've been thinking for years now. I'm ok for a while here at the moment (thankfully) but that's probably worth some further looking into at this time, for sure.

[myluckythai]

Only normal

[JomtienEats]

THE POINT IS THIS; MOST OF US HAVE EARNED THE RIGHT TO BE IN THAILAND BECAUSE WE HAVE WORKED SOME 50 YEARS AND HAVE A PENSION AND SAVINGS!

For the most part, those individuals that are illegally staying here are not man enough to get a job or 2 jobs if necessary, live frugally, stay out of the bars, advance their education, save their money and finally come to Thailand with a pension and savings - as we have done ourselves.

THE BEST THING FOR THEM IS TO GET BOOTED OUT OF THAILAND AND GO HOME AND START ACTING LIKE A RESPONSIBLE HUMAN BEING!!

This is representative of a certain type of entitled, sanctimonious, resentful retiree on thai visa.

'I did my 50 years, you go and do yours.'

But he hasn't earned any right to be in Thailand, he's a guest like any foreigner on a 1 year leash.

Edited July 9, 2014 by JomtienEats

[MrWorldwide]

But there will still appear to exist the absurd situation whereby 10-year-+ overstayers will be banned for life if they turn themselves in but only banned for 10 years if they keep their heads down until caught!

I dont know about you, but a ten-year ban when everything you own is in Thailand doesnt sound like a particularly attractive consolation prize for mine. Definitely not a resume I'd want to present to an Australian employer, although I guess those with a viable online business or a trading account that you could access from anywhere might be able to pick up the pieces in Cambodia or Malaysia.