Tourist visa holders denied entry to Thailand and left stranded in Malaysia

[BudRight]

As the news of this spreads, more and more people will likely put of trips here as the confusion reigns.

^I seriously doubt this.

What it will do however is stop these people that have exploited a system that was not strictly enforced as it should have been. I support it 100%. I am glad those multi visa runners were displaced. I doubt they will be let back in from the airport

Either you are a tourist occasionally or you live here with a retirement, Marriage or Work visa.

I expect more borders to follow suit soon.

How about u are rich and young and not married?

What kind of visa please?

Cool thing, It doesn't matter, stand in line like the rest of us. There are no special Platinum Visa's. Besides if you are rich and young why would you be here?

If I was either then you can be sure I would not be here anymore.

[JeffreyWitty]

I have stayed in Thailand for 1 and a half years on tourist visas in the past (an indefinite tourist) without working here. I am now on an education visa as I am studying Thai. My girlfriend is pregnant at the moment and I am worried about when my education visa runs out. I make enough money back home to support us but not to qualify for a non O visa. What can I do? I realize they won't have any sympathy for splitting up a young family and I am worried I am going to have to leave my wife and young child here. Any ideas would be much appreciated.

Option 1) Well, you can MARRY your girlfriend then start doing the paperwork to take her and your child back to your home country.

You may have to move in with family back in your home country - but it can be done. Luckily - as you said, you make enough money back home while sitting here in Thailand. Chances are, there is additional public assistance in your home country to help you get your life together.

Option 2) Get MARRIED, then go back to your home country, save up enough for the non-O requirement (400k baht) then return. Might take up to a year and a couple months (depending on what you claim you already earn) - but staying with family will help minimize your spending while trying to save.

Additionally - taking a year away from your wife and kid might seem like forever - but military folks do this ALL THE TIME. It can be done.

[phirho]

Cool thing, It doesn't matter, stand in line like the rest of us. There are no special Platinum Visa's.

Yes, there are:

500k baht - Thailand Easy Access program for 5 year visa

2m baht - Thailand Elite full membership

OR

Invest 10m baht and get investment extensions

[lovelaos]

I go over the border to Thailand from Laos most weekends to play golf and do a bit of shopping (NakhonPhanom). Yesterday, I spoke to the very nice Immigration officer about this new ruling and whether it will affect me.

He told me the new regulations are needed to weed out the people who are working in Thailand without working visas, farang mafia (his words, not mine) and foreigners who live in Thailand free!! (again, his words)

Normal tourists will not be affected.

More questions were being asked this time than normal so I guess the Laos/Thai border will also be problematic for the border runners.

[catweazle]

I think I may just skip Thailand all together this time. I have been watching airfares and now it is just as cheap to fly into Cambodia. It use to be significantly more. Is Cambodia the next Thailand?

Cambodia, the next Thailand - good joke !!!

Have you ever been there?

[duanebigsby]

NON-Immigrant visas , the next target in the crazy sceme

so you there at a checkpoint with a valid 60 day tourist visa, gotten from an embassy , totally worthless to cross over the boarder and ordered to take a bus and fly into the country

has someone lost their minds ?

28 million tourists they want next year right, or should they send them the money & stay home instead ?

Tourists don't have years of back to back visas, bought cars and big screen TV's, and have year long leases on houses.

The enforcement of the existing rules will not affect tourists.

[smedly]

If your a tourist (financially stable and not working in the country) why should it matter how many tourist visas you have? If you have the funds to support yourself and wish to visit a country without being over 50, married to a local, or teaching English then why should it matter?

All these Thai Visa clowns are so quick to judge everyone else when they married a bar girl or borrowed money to put in an account for a retirement visa (ooops - how does it feel to be judged based on a small minority of people?)

First the Cambodians were kicked out - and people blamed the Cambodians for overreacting to rumours

Then the Myanmar refugees were kicked out - and people turned a blind eye to that

Now legit Visa holders are being denied - and they are being blamed for being "multiple tourist visa holders"

Its coming for you next. Let's see how your lovely loyal Thai wife deals with the mutual Thai bank account/ business/ property when your marriage visa renewal is denied. One thing is for sure, the next group in line to be targeted will be too busy pointing fingers at your faults to see it coming for them.

although I agree with most of what you say the reality is that every country in the world has visa restrictions that is simply the way it is, some are more strict than others

Thailand has been fairly lax with it's visa rules over the years and now that seems to be changing - have you ever gone through the visa process with a Thai trying to enter the UK ?

TBH if you have been at any of the land border crossings in the last 2 years it is shocking, you have a constant stream of hundreds of people going across and coming straight back after 10 mins - it really is out of hand and out of control

I remember years ago doing border runs every 90 days and I mean like 6 years ago and there was a few bus loads of falangs arriving there in the morning at one crossing, now you have multiple crossings and visa run companies doing multiple runs with multiple buses all day every day hundreds and hundreds of people out and back in again an hour later - that is not normal for any country or any border

[BKKSnowBird]

I have stayed in Thailand for 1 and a half years on tourist visas in the past (an indefinite tourist) without working here. I am now on an education visa as I am studying Thai. My girlfriend is pregnant at the moment and I am worried about when my education visa runs out. I make enough money back home to support us but not to qualify for a non O visa. What can I do? I realize they won't have any sympathy for splitting up a young family and I am worried I am going to have to leave my wife and young child here. Any ideas would be much appreciated.

Option 1) Well, you can MARRY your girlfriend then start doing the paperwork to take her and your child back to your home country.

You may have to move in with family back in your home country - but it can be done. Luckily - as you said, you make enough money back home while sitting here in Thailand. Chances are, there is additional public assistance in your home country to help you get your life together.

Option 2) Get MARRIED, then go back to your home country, save up enough for the non-O requirement (400k baht) then return. Might take up to a year and a couple months (depending on what you claim you already earn) - but staying with family will help minimize your spending while trying to save.

Additionally - taking a year away from your wife and kid might seem like forever - but military folks do this ALL THE TIME. It can be done.

No he does not.

He can get a non-O visa just because he has a Thai kid. Getting married is not required.

He just needs the 400k OR can prove he has 40k per month income.

He can also get a an education visa.

If he is rich, he can get an Elite card.

MANY options.

[MrWorldwide]

NON-Immigrant visas , the next target in the crazy sceme

so you there at a checkpoint with a valid 60 day tourist visa, gotten from an embassy , totally worthless to cross over the boarder and ordered to take a bus and fly into the country

has someone lost their minds ?

28 million tourists they want next year right, or should they send them the money & stay home instead ?

If you have a passport full of back-to-back exemptions / tourist visas, are you actually a 'tourist' ? We've been thrashing that one out for over 2 weeks now and it usually ends up in a lot of finger-pointing, but can you not see why that would raise suspicion on the part of Immigration ?

All it takes is for one Divisional Commander to give his IOs a set of guidelines that say:

- look for past overstay

- look for back-to-back exemptions

- look for back-to-back Tourist Visas

If you were an Immigration Officer who wanted to keep his job, which side of the line do you think you'd fall on - compassionate and caring or 'I have my orders' ?

As far as the 28 million tourists go, we are in the depths of low season - surely the best time for Thailand to try to rid itself of the illegal workers which have sparked this crackdown. My personal fear is that the people in question - allegedly Koreans, Vietnamese and Russians are the top three targets - will only dig themselves in deeper now that the new overstay penalties have been announced. I just cant see what motivation they could possibly have for handing themselves in to anyone in a uniform but that may become clearer in August.

[Neeranam]

NON-Immigrant visas , the next target in the crazy sceme

so you there at a checkpoint with a valid 60 day tourist visa, gotten from an embassy , totally worthless to cross over the boarder and ordered to take a bus and fly into the country

has someone lost their minds ?

28 million tourists they want next year right, or should they send them the money & stay home instead ?

They are getting rid of the undesirables that do the visa runs - ie those with no money to get a 'real' 1 year visa.

Real tourists fly in or only do one or two tourist visas.

[hawker9000]

'Saw this coming. More ahead no doubt. Preachy non-O holders, pack up your smugness in your old kit bag, 'cause you're next on the agenda. And it's not even 12 AUG yet. I actually doubt this is going to help Elite sales much. Turn-aways like this create confusion and uncertainty, which is the opposite of what someone buying an expensive visa (or any expensive investment, or expensive anything) for the long-term tend to look for and expect. The very few who allow themselves to be herded toward the Elite program will be outweighed baht-wise by the many wondering what the heck is going on, and just deciding they can live without the hassle & go elsewhere. Whoever's behind all this either has no concern for the long-term damage he's doing, or no understanding of it. It's like a store-owner telling customers they have to leave if they haven't bought anything within the first 15 minutes. He might have his reasons (e.g., fear of shoplifters), but he'll end up driving away all his business, even those who might otherwise be first-timers, who'll walk the other way just based on the bad hearsay without knowing or caring about the details.

Edited July 14, 2014 by hawker9000

[Loptr]

There are so many incongruities in the article posted by the OP how is anyone supposed to make sense of it?

[lovelaos]

I go over the border to Thailand from Laos most weekends to play golf and do a bit of shopping (NakhonPhanom). Yesterday, I spoke to the very nice Immigration officer about this new ruling and whether it will affect me.

He told me the new regulations are needed to weed out the people who are working in Thailand without working visas, farang mafia (his words, not mine) and foreigners who live in Thailand free!! (again, his words)

Normal tourists will not be affected.

More questions were being asked this time than normal so I guess the Laos/Thai border will also be problematic for the border runners.

A bit off-topic but how do you manage to stay long-term there LL?

I work here and have a work permit, which I renew yearly.

[eeworldwide]

Im giving this situation 6 months before there is a change. In just over 1 month's time we shall be flooded with reports of people being denied entry, and loads of people will be posting negative things about Thai immigration on message boards and FB pages worldwide. It WILL damage the Tourism for Thailand - of that be in no doubt. ANYTHING nebulous about Thailand right now will be enhanced and blown out of proportion as usual by the press.

Those immediately affected will be those currently IN Thailand who hold expired visas, or who have been abusing the system via Visa runs.

Certain streams of the backpacking communities worldwide will have to seriously plan their trips in advance and can no longer use Thailand as a decompression chamber for 6 months at a time as they used to.

The real problem is the implementing of these new rules AT THIS TIME. Whilst the country is under Junta control, ( which is already having a significantly negative impact on tourism - all the major cities in Thailand are practically empty) there will continue to be a decline in visitors. Speaking to people in the UK a couple of weeks ago when I was back on business, their perceptions of the current atmosphere here in Thailand was really very eye-opening. Many many many people are choosing to go elsewhere.

The fact is - we have to wait until the middle of August to see how bombastic these new rules are in terms of spreading unease, inconvenience and massive pressure on the immigration offices country-wide.

Delays at airports, arguments, fines and all manner of confusion will reign supreme for a number of weeks.

Then there will be the due period of the immigration depts doing and saying nothing about it ( so they don't lose face) then some new rules will be applied and current ones will be relaxed in some ways.

The current state of affairs in Thailand is extremely volatile, there is no way that the TAT's prediction of exceeding tourist numbers next year adds up - it's going to take about 2 years for any perceived state of "normalcy" to return to this country - nothing will stabilise until there is an elected functioning government.

The system is not corrupt. Corruption IS the system. Anyone who believes otherwise is completely deluded. Thailand is corrupt in every single area of business and politics, from hospitals, schools, commerce, trade, import, export, immigration ( you can still BUY your visas illegally with banks complicit in the process) government, police, arts and entertainment/nightlife and of course -the crowning glory - religion.

We would be fools to assume or even dream that miraculously things will change. They will never change - because all this corruption is deep in the DNA of the Thai people. You can't change generations of belief and thought and ways of thinking here - it's all thai-ed up in religion, face and ultimately money. So - we as visitors just have to learn to surf these waves of confusion, keep within the current rules, and enjoy what we can while we can.

Thailand isn't changing anytime soon. Rules will change for a moment or 2 from time to time, but things will ultimately stay the same. Corruption will only be driven underground, or re-dressed to suit whoever it needs to suit at that moment.

You could take a Thai out of Thailand but you can never take Thailand out of a Thai.

[BestBitterPhuket]

I have no problem accepting the new "rules", BUT it is the ludicrous implementation and arbitrary and inconsistent enforcement and interpretation that comes across as insane. I suspect they want to weed out the "poor" foreigners, who is presumed poor because they enter by land. Flying is probably seen as a litmus test for being a desirable individual.

As someone who will work a week in Singapore and then spend 3 weeks in Thailand with my Thai family, I became worried about this due to my many back to back visits. As a resident of Singapore I don't get my passport chopped when entering, and I am therefore left with ONLY Thai stamps in my passport. I decided to get a tourist visa, but at the embassy I was denied before handing in the application and told that this was unnecessary because if I wanted to stay only 30 days I should rely on a visa exemption. When I mentioned I might stay 40 or 50 days, they told me to leave and come back for another 30 day visa exemption, an advice that I followed. However, I am not sure if I want to rely on this in the future and having a Thai wife and child, I guess I will apply for a "proper" visa.

I hope the current situation get fixed, because some immigration officials create a bad image of Thailand when going solo, acting inconsistent and against the rules.

[kannot]

Don't be surprised in the future if they limit the land crossings to only members of ASEAN community and all others would have to gain entry via air.

They are serious (currently) about getting out the illegal riff-raff.

We, as an EX-PAT community have brought some of this on ourselves by not policing our own. If you know someone who is violating the VISA requirements - TURN THEM IN!!!!!!!!!!!

It's those folks who abuse the system and ruin it for the rest of the legitimate ex-pats!

Funny........... I would think the majority of these people are Myanmar, Laos,Cambodia ETC many have no passports and are often "let in" to Thailand by the border officials for a fee.

I know this is how its done as my staff have told me previously.

How many hundreds of thousands of Cambodians left recently?

[Tatsujin]

until they change the LAW to state that tourist can only stay so many days a year ..none of these people are breaking the law...so all the smart ass would do well to remember this.......you could be next Jack

it is immigrations job to catch illegal workers INSIDE thailand and arrest , blacklist then deport them ..........not at borders before they have entered there is a declatation on the immigration card that you sign..that is how they get you INSIDE thailand

They are all breaking the law . . . they are not "tourists" if you are using the people denied entry in the article as an example . . . they are using the tourist visa to enable them to stay long term in Thailand . . . that is NOT the purpose of the tourist visa, and THAT is what they are cracking down on.

And no, it's immigration's job to stop undesirable or illegal people at the border before they get into Thailand, not just once within the borders.

Since when is that illegal?

These people have legit visas...there is no evidence that they are working.

The gubbermint should stop issuing back to back TV visas at source i.e the consulates.

Pickin and choosing at the border is ludicrous.

What is wrong with you people? Did you leave your brains outside Thailand when you entered?

It's ILLEGAL simply because they are making a false declaration of what their intended use of the Tourist Visa is. Simple as that.

Picking and choosing at the border who to allow in and not allow in happens IN EVERY COUNTRY IN THE WORLD, NOT JUST THAILAND. The immigration officer's have final say/final decision making power. That is the same IN EVERY COUNTRY IN THE WORLD, NOT JUST THAILAND.

Clear now?

[Loptr]

i stop being suprised here years ago.... ..buy a legal visa from a THAI consul (WHO HAVE THE POWER TO REFUSE) and then be refused entry at teh border...idiotic to say the least

It's again worth remembering that possession of a visa doesn't guarantee the holder admission to a country, it's the Immigration Officer at the Border that has the final say, this applies to most countries in the World, including the likes of the UK, the Schengen Area and the United States of America.

Perhaps, but how hard is it for consulate staff to perform the same check on a person's passport as an immigration officer to determine whether the applicant has worn out their welcome? No, they sell you the stamp, then let you be refused entry at the border... You can put lipstick on it if you want, but it's not copacetic...

[Neeranam]

I have stayed in Thailand for 1 and a half years on tourist visas in the past (an indefinite tourist) without working here. I am now on an education visa as I am studying Thai. My girlfriend is pregnant at the moment and I am worried about when my education visa runs out. I make enough money back home to support us but not to qualify for a non O visa. What can I do? I realize they won't have any sympathy for splitting up a young family and I am worried I am going to have to leave my wife and young child here. Any ideas would be much appreciated.

Option 1) Well, you can MARRY your girlfriend then start doing the paperwork to take her and your child back to your home country.

You may have to move in with family back in your home country - but it can be done. Luckily - as you said, you make enough money back home while sitting here in Thailand. Chances are, there is additional public assistance in your home country to help you get your life together.

Option 2) Get MARRIED, then go back to your home country, save up enough for the non-O requirement (400k baht) then return. Might take up to a year and a couple months (depending on what you claim you already earn) - but staying with family will help minimize your spending while trying to save.

Additionally - taking a year away from your wife and kid might seem like forever - but military folks do this ALL THE TIME. It can be done.

You won't have to leave them here. There are many ways to get around the 400k law for an visa.

You cannot be refused entry under the 1997 constitution(if it still exists?) if you have dependents who have Thai citizenship unless you have committed a criminal offence.

[beenhere2long]

Don't be surprised in the future if they limit the land crossings to only members of ASEAN community and all others would have to gain entry via air.

They are serious (currently) about getting out the illegal riff-raff.

We, as an EX-PAT community have brought some of this on ourselves by not policing our own. If you know someone who is violating the VISA requirements - TURN THEM IN!!!!!!!!!!!

It's those folks who abuse the system and ruin it for the rest of the legitimate ex-pats!

you related to Bertie Smalls?

Edited July 14, 2014 by beenhere2long

[evadgib]

'Stranded'?

I realize it can't be fun getting caught up in this but surely a more accurate description would be 'inconvenienced'?

[MrWorldwide]

i stop being suprised here years ago.... ..buy a legal visa from a THAI consul (WHO HAVE THE POWER TO REFUSE) and then be refused entry at teh border...idiotic to say the least

It's again worth remembering that possession of a visa doesn't guarantee the holder admission to a country, it's the Immigration Officer at the Border that has the final say, this applies to most countries in the World, including the likes of the UK, the Schengen Area and the United States of America.

Perhaps, but how hard is it for consulate staff to perform the same check on a person's passport as an immigration officer to determine whether the applicant has worn out their welcome? No, they sell you the stamp, then let you be refused entry at the border... You can put lipstick on it if you want, but it's not copacetic...

When was the last time anyone at a Consulate asked you if you would be re-entering Thailand via a land border or an airport ? I've never been asked anything even remotely similar. When they start bouncing people in large numbers at the airports I'll revisit my stance - from the OP, those denied entry were specifically told to get on a plane. None of this changes the fact that people who are living in Thailand for the majority of the year really need to explore options beyond exemptions and tourist visas - as extensively discussed here for over a week.

[larsjohnsson]

i stop being suprised here years ago.... ..buy a legal visa from a THAI consul (WHO HAVE THE POWER TO REFUSE) and then be refused entry at teh border...idiotic to say the least

When you apply for a visa at the embassy and pay money. You have to pay even if you don't get the visa. So for the money/pay part it will be the same.

[alanrchase]

So what if im under 50 but have the 800,000 or more in my bank account but I will be discriminated against because of my age.

Tourist visas are my only option right?

No. You would not be a tourist.

Sent from my GT-I9500 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[PoorSucker]

I do not understand why immigration doesn't have one set of rules and regulations, requirements and forms for every immigration officer, consulate and embassy.

Because Thai government organisation is very very very far behind western standards.

Perhaps, but how hard is it for consulate staff to perform the same check on a person's passport as an immigration officer to determine whether the applicant has worn out their welcome? No, they sell you the stamp, then let you be refused entry at the border... You can put lipstick on it if you want, but it's not copacetic...

Immigrations at borders and within Thailand are under the Immigrations bureau.

Consulates and embassy are supervised by MFA (Ministry of Foreign Affairs).

[BestBitterPhuket]

Refusing entry to all people with tourist visas, how can you obtain a visa and then be denied entry to the country unless you fly into it?

Classic Thailand

How about in your country? do you think a Thai can get back to back visas and stay as long as they like. They probably cant" even get a visa in the first place.

Very true. Thailand has been generous for decades. For those who want to live the free and easy life without going through the paperwork or spending money on proper visas, there are always other countries.

We all know that many criminals and dodgy people have made Thailand their home due to the previously relaxed immigration rules and routines, and hopefully this will flush many of them out.

[Thanet]

Time to invest in a guest house on the Malaysian side of the border.

[Chalard]

As the news of this spreads, more and more people will likely put of trips here as the confusion reigns.

Only the dodgy people won't come.

If you have the proper visa or none of this back to back "Tourist Visa", not a problem

Good to see the IB cracking down on the riff raff

[Neeranam]

I was stranded in no mans land in 1997 for about 3 days as neither Malaysia nor Thailand would take me in.

Yes, I was riff raff and drunk.

Can't everyone see what Immigration are trying to do really?

I have 5 friends i Khon Kaen who buy their yearly visa from the Immigration.

I know of many other who buy their visa from other immigrations. They want to keep the money!

Myself, I was told I needn't do the 90 day reporting if I gave them a small fee.

Corruption but the good news is that, or maybe bad, is that the undesirables can stay but just giver their money to another place.

[maccastime]

As the news of this spreads, more and more people will likely put of trips here as the confusion reigns.

I don't think so. People visiting here as "real" tourists are unlikely to be affected, particularly as they invariably arrive by air. As clearly stated in the OP, the eight people who were refused entry all had a history of border crossings and numerous Tourist Visas, so the official was clearly following orders not to allow bogus "tourists" into Thailand.

There are numerous ways that a person can arrange legal status in Thailand, and I certainly have no sympathy for anyone who uses tourist visas to carry out unlawful work in Thailand. I am of the opinion that once Thailand has rid itself of such bogus tourists, they may start to make things slightly easier for those of us who stay here legally - such as disposing of the pointless 90 day reporting ...!!

Yes i agree the 90 day report is a joke,no need for it really,yes it does not take long,sometimes in and out in 10 minutes........but....