Camerata's Guide To The Permanent Residence Process

[brianinbangkok]

Just to be clear you need to get the endorsement and re-entry at immigration office before you leave the country.

I have read of the re-entry desk at the airport but not sure if the do it for PR as well.

Anybody know ?

Sent from my HTC Desire S using Thaivisa Connect App

[Tep]

I think only the PR Division at Chaeng Wattana can do the endorsement so you cannot do a re-entry permit at the airport. Before Suvannabhumi opened, I asked if it could be done at Don Muang and was told that it could not.

[brianinbangkok]

Thanks Tep.

I got the re-entry and endorsement done today at Chaeng Wattana Immigration today unlike last year fill in 2 documents signed and picked it all up 2,5 hours later.

Thought it used to be just one document TM 22 for the re-entry permit/visa but this year also had to fill in a second document called TM 13 for endorsement in the residence book.

Is this new?

[ubonjoe]

  On 6/2/2012 at 10:55 AM, tombkk said:

  On 6/1/2012 at 7:42 AM, camerata said:

Right. As most members have said, officials and employees would rather NOT see your Alien's Book. I've had hotels refuse to use it, I guess because they have a registration form in English with a space for passport number and one in Thai with a space for the ID Card number.

It's curious that the Alien's Book doesn't contain your Thai ID number. When opening a fixed deposit account with a bank that had preferential rates for residents, I had to use my tabien baan or driving licence.

Why do you need to carry the Alien's Book around? I thought it's one of the things you keep in the safe, like the Work Permit or the passport.

I always use my driver's lucence for official ID, for example at hotels.

I was under the impression that when you get PR you are issued an ID card similar to the Thai ID as a permanent resident.

[brianinbangkok]

  On 6/6/2012 at 3:59 AM, ubonjoe said:

  On 6/2/2012 at 10:55 AM, tombkk said:

  On 6/1/2012 at 7:42 AM, camerata said:

Right. As most members have said, officials and employees would rather NOT see your Alien's Book. I've had hotels refuse to use it, I guess because they have a registration form in English with a space for passport number and one in Thai with a space for the ID Card number.

It's curious that the Alien's Book doesn't contain your Thai ID number. When opening a fixed deposit account with a bank that had preferential rates for residents, I had to use my tabien baan or driving licence.

Why do you need to carry the Alien's Book around? I thought it's one of the things you keep in the safe, like the Work Permit or the passport.

I always use my driver's lucence for official ID, for example at hotels.

I was under the impression that when you get PR you are issued an ID card similar to the Thai ID as a permanent resident.

No, you do not get a credit card sized ID card like Thai nationals.

Instead you get an old red book about the size of a passport that as ID is rarely accepted in Thailand as almost nobody knows what it is. It is in fact a Thai ID book for foreigners.

This is only asked for at immigration when you are there to get re-entry permit if you have a pr.

Today however I renewed my Thai motorbike license and for first time in 6 years of having a pr.

They asked for this red book.

[Kan Win]

  On 6/6/2012 at 3:59 AM, ubonjoe said:

  On 6/2/2012 at 10:55 AM, tombkk said:

  On 6/1/2012 at 7:42 AM, camerata said:

Right. As most members have said, officials and employees would rather NOT see your Alien's Book. I've had hotels refuse to use it, I guess because they have a registration form in English with a space for passport number and one in Thai with a space for the ID Card number.

It's curious that the Alien's Book doesn't contain your Thai ID number. When opening a fixed deposit account with a bank that had preferential rates for residents, I had to use my tabien baan or driving licence.

Why do you need to carry the Alien's Book around? I thought it's one of the things you keep in the safe, like the Work Permit or the passport.

I always use my driver's lucence for official ID, for example at hotels.

I was under the impression that when you get PR you are issued an ID card similar to the Thai ID as a permanent resident.

Dear All,

I have had a PR since 2002. Once I got that, I when to our local Police Station to register with them within seven (7) days time . Got the Large Reddish book and then off to the local Tambien Bahn Office with my wife's Blue House Book. My name was put in there and they gave me a Thai ID number in it. This is the only place that issues you a Thai ID Number as far as I know.

Went back last year with my wife and asked for a Thai ID card as I have the number from them and yes, you all know the answer to that question, they said NO.

As a few folks mentioned, I show my Thai Driving Licence and my Thai ID Number is on there which I do have to point out to some hotel staff which are asking me for my passport...............

So all in all, my Thai Driving License is my Thai ID card as it has me number on it.

Hope this help you all PR Holders.

Win

[tombkk]

  On 6/2/2012 at 2:36 PM, brianinbangkok said:

The alien's book it has 2 pages inside in English with a list of rules you must follow.

Rule 7: You must always keep this certificate with you, so to be in readiness to produce to administrative or police authority upon request.

Rule 8: you can be fined for not following the above rules

Same goes for being able to show your wp when at work.

I have never been asked this but legaly you do need to be able to show it.

I usually have a copy in the car.

I keep my work permit in the safe. I know I'm supposed to keep it in the office but I'm willing to pay the fine of THB 1,000 rather than risking to lose it.

So I guess I won't be carrying the Alien's Book around with me either. Even in police checkpoints, the driver's licence has always sufficed.

[samran]

  On 6/6/2012 at 12:13 PM, Kan Win said:

  On 6/6/2012 at 3:59 AM, ubonjoe said:

  On 6/2/2012 at 10:55 AM, tombkk said:

  On 6/1/2012 at 7:42 AM, camerata said:

Right. As most members have said, officials and employees would rather NOT see your Alien's Book. I've had hotels refuse to use it, I guess because they have a registration form in English with a space for passport number and one in Thai with a space for the ID Card number.

It's curious that the Alien's Book doesn't contain your Thai ID number. When opening a fixed deposit account with a bank that had preferential rates for residents, I had to use my tabien baan or driving licence.

Why do you need to carry the Alien's Book around? I thought it's one of the things you keep in the safe, like the Work Permit or the passport.

I always use my driver's lucence for official ID, for example at hotels.

I was under the impression that when you get PR you are issued an ID card similar to the Thai ID as a permanent resident.

Dear All,

I have had a PR since 2002. Once I got that, I when to our local Police Station to register with them within seven (7) days time . Got the Large Reddish book and then off to the local Tambien Bahn Office with my wife's Blue House Book. My name was put in there and they gave me a Thai ID number in it. This is the only place that issues you a Thai ID Number as far as I know.

Went back last year with my wife and asked for a Thai ID card as I have the number from them and yes, you all know the answer to that question, they said NO.

As a few folks mentioned, I show my Thai Driving Licence and my Thai ID Number is on there which I do have to point out to some hotel staff which are asking me for my passport...............

So all in all, my Thai Driving License is my Thai ID card as it has me number on it.

Hope this help you all PR Holders.

Win

I've actually been asked for a work permit once - despite showing my Thai ID card. Quite funny.

[Arkady]

  On 6/2/2012 at 2:36 PM, brianinbangkok said:

The alien's book it has 2 pages inside in English with a list of rules you must follow.

Rule 7: You must always keep this certificate with you, so to be in readiness to produce to administrative or police authority upon request.

Rule 8: you can be fined for not following the above rules

Same goes for being able to show your wp when at work.

I have never been asked this but legaly you do need to be able to show it.

I usually have a copy in the car.

The two pages of rules are in Chinese as well as English and Thai and mainly deal with what the holder has to do when he is dead!

Obviously this document dates back to the late 20s when the Immigration Bureau was founded and the police needed to deal with growing rates of crime due to the huge influx of Chinese immigrants, who brought their triads with them, and the concept has never been updated, despite the continuous modernisation of Thai ID cards. It pre-dates the introduction of work permits and most types of visa around today and you can see that it must have been very useful to the police since it buttonholed the Chinese living in their districts, requiring full details of their families, their profession and their address as well having space for adding updated photographs. Otherwise the police would have been left looking at passports and ID documents that were at best in Chinese and English and at worst in Chinese only, neither of which they could read.

The problem of course is that the Alien Books are issued by the police, while the Alien ID cards issued to labourers from neighbouring countries are issued by the Local Administration Dept that issues Thai ID cards.

[Arkady]

  On 6/6/2012 at 12:13 PM, Kan Win said:

Dear All,

I have had a PR since 2002. Once I got that, I when to our local Police Station to register with them within seven (7) days time . Got the Large Reddish book and then off to the local Tambien Bahn Office with my wife's Blue House Book. My name was put in there and they gave me a Thai ID number in it. This is the only place that issues you a Thai ID Number as far as I know.

Went back last year with my wife and asked for a Thai ID card as I have the number from them and yes, you all know the answer to that question, they said NO.

Win

NIce try. If you ever become a Thai citizen, you will retain that ID number with the prefix 8- and everyone will be able to identify you as a natuarlized Thai, in case they couldn't guess!

Another thing people may not know is that your new ID number also becomes your tax ID number in place of your former alien's tax ID number. If you want to apply for citizenship, it is probably a good idea to ensure that this switch happens, so that your three year taxpayer's record is all with your Thai ID number.

[camerata]

  On 6/2/2012 at 10:55 AM, tombkk said:

Why do you need to carry the Alien's Book around? I thought it's one of the things you keep in the safe, like the Work Permit or the passport.

I always use my driver's lucence for official ID, for example at hotels.

I carry the Alien's book because it's required by law and without it your passport appears to have no valid visa at all. When you get PR they put a stamp in the back of your passport but it is not carried over to subsequent passports.

I've had a hotel refuse to accept my driver's licence, which for PR holders does not contain your passport ID.

[GabbaGabbaHey]

  On 4/23/2012 at 2:23 AM, brother52 said:

On March 8th, Siamfan was saying: "So, was there on monday, all very friendly, busy posting more letters to applicants. They said, all PR will be processed now within the next 3 months.[...]"

April 23rd: let's cross fingers because we are exactly half-time, given the assumption.

So here we are: three months have past since the original remark, and I guess nobody has seen any "real" progress otherwise we would know, right?

[SAMCHAROEN]

  On 6/13/2012 at 2:12 AM, brother52 said:

  On 4/23/2012 at 2:23 AM, brother52 said:

On March 8th, Siamfan was saying: "So, was there on monday, all very friendly, busy posting more letters to applicants. They said, all PR will be processed now within the next 3 months.[...]"

April 23rd: let's cross fingers because we are exactly half-time, given the assumption.

So here we are: three months have past since the original remark, and I guess nobody has seen any "real" progress otherwise we would know, right?

right...no information received so far

[canopus1969]

  On 6/11/2012 at 8:41 AM, Arkady said:

  On 6/6/2012 at 12:13 PM, Kan Win said:

Dear All,

I have had a PR since 2002. Once I got that, I when to our local Police Station to register with them within seven (7) days time . Got the Large Reddish book and then off to the local Tambien Bahn Office with my wife's Blue House Book. My name was put in there and they gave me a Thai ID number in it. This is the only place that issues you a Thai ID Number as far as I know.

Went back last year with my wife and asked for a Thai ID card as I have the number from them and yes, you all know the answer to that question, they said NO.

Win

NIce try. If you ever become a Thai citizen, you will retain that ID number with the prefix 8- and everyone will be able to identify you as a natuarlized Thai, in case they couldn't guess!

Another thing people may not know is that your new ID number also becomes your tax ID number in place of your former alien's tax ID number. If you want to apply for citizenship, it is probably a good idea to ensure that this switch happens, so that your three year taxpayer's record is all with your Thai ID number.

Interesting, thank you, and what about ones SSO number, is that also your Thai ID number ?

[Dork]

  On 6/15/2012 at 4:49 AM, SAMCHAROEN said:

  On 6/13/2012 at 2:12 AM, brother52 said:

  On 4/23/2012 at 2:23 AM, brother52 said:

On March 8th, Siamfan was saying: "So, was there on monday, all very friendly, busy posting more letters to applicants. They said, all PR will be processed now within the next 3 months.[...]"

April 23rd: let's cross fingers because we are exactly half-time, given the assumption.

So here we are: three months have past since the original remark, and I guess nobody has seen any "real" progress otherwise we would know, right?

right...no information received so far

Sigh... No and the news at the moment is that the current Interior Minister is about to lose his portfolio. So I would guess that our already low priority PR applications just dropped completely off the radar again.

Next month I will be going to CW for my 14th 6 monthly "under consideration" stamp. Pretty funny really.

[Siamfan]

Yeah... its really amazing how they treat us... no idea anybody what we can do to get some attention?

[MikeyIdea]

  On 6/13/2012 at 2:12 AM, brother52 said:

  On 4/23/2012 at 2:23 AM, brother52 said:

On March 8th, Siamfan was saying: "So, was there on monday, all very friendly, busy posting more letters to applicants. They said, all PR will be processed now within the next 3 months.[...]"

April 23rd: let's cross fingers because we are exactly half-time, given the assumption.

So here we are: three months have past since the original remark, and I guess nobody has seen any "real" progress otherwise we would know, right?

I don't think we ever knew more than exactly what they said: all PR will be processed now within the next 3 months.[...]"

Yes, from an immigration perspective... All PR will be processed now within the next 3 months, and true to their word, the whole backlog at immigration is now processed including my own application from 2009

Immigration has never wanted to comment on the doings of the Ministry of Interior when I have asked

[howzat]

wonder how Mickeyidea knows they have all been processed

[Arkady]

  On 6/29/2012 at 1:44 AM, MikeyIdea said:

I don't think we ever knew more than exactly what they said: all PR will be processed now within the next 3 months.[...]"

Yes, from an immigration perspective... All PR will be processed now within the next 3 months, and true to their word, the whole backlog at immigration is now processed including my own application from 2009

Immigration has never wanted to comment on the doings of the Ministry of Interior when I have asked

They are in the same situation as Special Branch vis a vis citizenship applications. Telling applicants what really happens at the ministry is far too embarrassing and it is also out of their control. Clearly both Immigration and Special Branch respectively know a lot more than they let on but it is much easier to claim the ministry is a totally inscrutable black hole from which applications occasionally emerge many years later with no explanation as to what happened to them while they were in the black hole.

I believe that the current minister has genuinely tried to do something about the backlog but fear that his successor will just shelve it while he investigates whether PR should be granted at all, starting from first principles. Thai politics has now become so corrupt that no one wants to sign anything any more, if they could later be accused of accepting a bribe, unless of course they have received a bribe which makes it worthwhile taking the risk. So many government agencies having to sign off PR makes it is too unwieldy to agree on a pricing structure and split. Therefore nothing gets done.

[NewlyMintedThai]

Sad but true, Arkady.

[Dibbler]

I have been in Thailand a few years now and am considering applying for PR. I wanted to ask readers who have this what are the advantages over simply renewing my Non-imm O visa once a year. Based upon what I have read in this thread it seems an exceedingly complicated, time consuming, and expensive process to enter into. Any thoughts welcomed.

[Arkady]

  On 7/23/2012 at 5:09 AM, Dibbler said:

I have been in Thailand a few years now and am considering applying for PR. I wanted to ask readers who have this what are the advantages over simply renewing my Non-imm O visa once a year. Based upon what I have read in this thread it seems an exceedingly complicated, time consuming, and expensive process to enter into. Any thoughts welcomed.

Being on an non-imm O visa suggests you are not working in Thailand, unless of course you use it to get extensions based on marriage to a Thai and also have a work permit. However, most people with work permits get a non-imm B visa, even if they have a Thai wife because their employers organise it for them and it avoids the hassle of having to drag the missus down to immigration every year.

For those who are working in Thailand and can meet the requirements probably the main advantage is the peace of mind in knowing that you have been granted permission to stay in the Kingdom for the rest of your life and will never be subject to sudden visa rule changes or harassment by Immigration. You still can't own land or work without a work permit or vote which some may consider makes it not worthwhile. On the other hand, you can get a blue tabien baan automatically; you can buy a condo without having to show the origin of the funds; you can get a gun permit; you can get married without showing an affirmation of freedom to marry document from your embassy; you can get a work permit more easily; you can use the Thai passport channels at airport Immigration (I think there is still one manual channel left after they installed the automatic gates for Thai passports); you can apply for Thai citizenship without being married to a Thai.

Yes, it is onerous and expensive and doesn't provide the right to work or get free healthcare, as PR does in Western countries, but it is the only lifelong visa you can get. Those married to Thais who would prefer full rights may consider applying for Thai citizenship for which the fee is only B10,500 instead. It also takes a very long time and is a big, big hassle but the documentation is slightly easier, e.g. no certificate of clean criminal record from home country required.

[Dibbler]

Thanks Arkady I appreciate the time you spent responding to my question

[MikeyIdea]

  On 7/3/2012 at 12:17 AM, laceman said:

wonder how Mickeyidea knows they have all been processed

I asked at the residency section

[Dork]

Time to give this thread a little kick. It's back to page 5 now.

For what it's worth, which admittedly isn't much, my lawyer informed me today that the latest whispers from the Interior ministry are that Nov/Dec is when things will happen - contingent on no reshuffles etc.

Next week it's time for my umpteenth "in limbo" extension. Oh well, it's pretty painless.

Cheers,

[sas_cars]

Hi Dork. That seems a fantastic update but where did your lawyer get this update from? what's the source?

[tamvine]

  On 7/6/2012 at 10:45 AM, Arkady said:

  On 6/29/2012 at 1:44 AM, MikeyIdea said:

I don't think we ever knew more than exactly what they said: all PR will be processed now within the next 3 months.[...]"

Yes, from an immigration perspective... All PR will be processed now within the next 3 months, and true to their word, the whole backlog at immigration is now processed including my own application from 2009

Immigration has never wanted to comment on the doings of the Ministry of Interior when I have asked

They are in the same situation as Special Branch vis a vis citizenship applications. Telling applicants what really happens at the ministry is far too embarrassing and it is also out of their control. Clearly both Immigration and Special Branch respectively know a lot more than they let on but it is much easier to claim the ministry is a totally inscrutable black hole from which applications occasionally emerge many years later with no explanation as to what happened to them while they were in the black hole.

I believe that the current minister has genuinely tried to do something about the backlog but fear that his successor will just shelve it while he investigates whether PR should be granted at all, starting from first principles. Thai politics has now become so corrupt that no one wants to sign anything any more, if they could later be accused of accepting a bribe, unless of course they have received a bribe which makes it worthwhile taking the risk. So many government agencies having to sign off PR makes it is too unwieldy to agree on a pricing structure and split. Therefore nothing gets done.

I think if all the people waiting for the PR pool in some money and take the interior ministry to court PRs will be issued immediately.

[Dork]

  On 8/12/2012 at 4:17 AM, sas_cars said:

Hi Dork. That seems a fantastic update but where did your lawyer get this update from? what's the source?

Apologies for the late reply.

I assume his source is inside the Interior Ministry but I didn't ask because I don't take it very seriously. Not that I don't believe him - he is more exasperated by the situation than I am - but these kind of rumours have surfaced several times over the past few years & came to nothing.

[Dork]

  On 8/17/2012 at 2:36 PM, tamvine said:

  On 7/6/2012 at 10:45 AM, Arkady said:

  On 6/29/2012 at 1:44 AM, MikeyIdea said:

I don't think we ever knew more than exactly what they said: all PR will be processed now within the next 3 months.[...]"

Yes, from an immigration perspective... All PR will be processed now within the next 3 months, and true to their word, the whole backlog at immigration is now processed including my own application from 2009

Immigration has never wanted to comment on the doings of the Ministry of Interior when I have asked

They are in the same situation as Special Branch vis a vis citizenship applications. Telling applicants what really happens at the ministry is far too embarrassing and it is also out of their control. Clearly both Immigration and Special Branch respectively know a lot more than they let on but it is much easier to claim the ministry is a totally inscrutable black hole from which applications occasionally emerge many years later with no explanation as to what happened to them while they were in the black hole.

I believe that the current minister has genuinely tried to do something about the backlog but fear that his successor will just shelve it while he investigates whether PR should be granted at all, starting from first principles. Thai politics has now become so corrupt that no one wants to sign anything any more, if they could later be accused of accepting a bribe, unless of course they have received a bribe which makes it worthwhile taking the risk. So many government agencies having to sign off PR makes it is too unwieldy to agree on a pricing structure and split. Therefore nothing gets done.

I think if all the people waiting for the PR pool in some money and take the interior ministry to court PRs will be issued immediately.

You're possibly right but I think just giving said pool to the IM would be faster.

[canopus1969]

I think if all the people waiting for the PR pool in some money and take the interior ministry to court PRs will be issued immediately.

Ever hear of peeing into the wind ?