Camerata's Guide To The Permanent Residence Process

[tombkk]

I received my PR book last week. So, I have to go to the police station (here in Bangkok) and apply for the red Alien's Book. Does anybody know whether they issue it right away, or how long it typically takes?

Also, do I have to wait for the Alien's Book before I can get listed in the Tabienban?

I need to time this, as I am due for another overseas trip and don't want to miss the deadlines and face penalties.

From memory, the Klong Tan police station took about 4 days to issue my first Alien Certificate, but I should imagine it depends very much on the station and the police officer. Often there is only one officer at the station who is responsible for alien certificates and if he/she is sick, on leave or just too busy with other duties, alien certificates take a back seat.

Thanks, that's helpful.

Do you need to bring this book to get listed in the Tabienban, or is the PR book sufficient?

Yes you do need the red Aliens book before you can go and get the letter from your Amphur to take back to immigration. I just picked mine up this morning. I got the residence certificate last week and went straight to the police station. I think KamnanT is right that how long it takes will depend on the station. In my case there was quite a bit of confusion and initially several officers denied that the red book could be done at my station. Said they had never seen one before. Eventually got passed on to a young officer that (unfortunately for him) has that responsibility. He was very friendly and helpful but needed time because he had never done it before and there is quite a bit of paperwork involved. One of the registers I had to sign was so old that I had to sign it carefully in case the pen went right through it. I'm not kidding.

A couple of posters here have advised that you should insist on 1 year + 5 years for your red book. That is good advice because if I hadn't known that and insisted on it I would have only got one year.

Like you, I also need to travel soon so I'm hoping that the re-entry permit and endorsement can be done by immigration before completion of the Tabien Ban process but I haven't had a clear answer yet about that. Anyway I'm planning on tackling that tomorrow so I'll post here unless someone else can answer sooner.

Hey, thanks a lot for this.

I didn't know about the 1 year +5. In any case, I will ask them to speed it up.

[tombkk]

One of the posters on this thread said that they are a 2007 applicant and already have their residence certificate. I would guess though that he/she had some kind of connection so were fast tracked ahead of the queue. I'm a 2006 and got the blue book last week. It took almost the whole day and there were only 7-8 other applicants in that days little presentation ceremony so probably the PR section at CW is just working their way through the bunch of approvals and will get to 2007 soon. They look quite busy at the moment. Must be quite a shock for them after 6 years of almost nothing to do.

Yes, that seems to be the case, but again is there some sort of news that 2007 got approvals and are in Q at CW?

The general consensus seems to be that the number of applications already signed by the former interior minister is in the several hundreds so must included 2007. Why don't you call the PR section and ask? I think they will give you an answer.

Thanks and did so few times, however their answer is always asking to wait for the Letter. I thought at times the staff there would have told middlemen or lawyers about exact situation. So was wondering if anyone has such info..

My friend (class of 2011) called to the number I gave him (which was mentioned earlier in this thread) and was told that the names of the approved applicants was on the Thai immigration website. He couldn't find the particular website, neither could I. Does anybody have the direct URL?

[Mario2008]

if it is published on the immigration webiste it is in Thai only.

You could ty to look here, it will probably be one of the notices: http://bangkok.immigration.go.th/base.php?page=noticepost&section=notice

[tombkk]

if it is published on the immigration webiste it is in Thai only.

You could ty to look here, it will probably be one of the notices: http://bangkok.immig...&section=notice

I don't mind Thai language, but having to sift through all these notices... Isn't there a section listing the names?

I understand there is (somewhere) a section for people who have been approved citizens, so I would think there is one for new PR holders.

[NewlyMintedThai]

New citizens' names appear in a different place: the Royal Gazette.

[Arkady]

if it is published on the immigration webiste it is in Thai only.

You could ty to look here, it will probably be one of the notices: http://bangkok.immig...&section=notice

I don't mind Thai language, but having to sift through all these notices... Isn't there a section listing the names?

I understand there is (somewhere) a section for people who have been approved citizens, so I would think there is one for new PR holders.

They used to post a lot of PR announcements on the Immigration website, including even lists of names that had been approved at Immigration Commission meetings and were awaiting ministerial approval. Here is one such list re the class of 2005: http://www.immigrati...mit300806EN.pdf . Not long after that the wheels fell off and I don't see anything posted since then.

The lists of new citizens appear in the Royal Gazette but that is required by Nationality Act, whereas the Immigration Act doesn't require the same for new PRs.

Edited October 8, 2012 by Arkady

[tombkk]

if it is published on the immigration webiste it is in Thai only.

You could ty to look here, it will probably be one of the notices: http://bangkok.immig...&section=notice

I don't mind Thai language, but having to sift through all these notices... Isn't there a section listing the names?

I understand there is (somewhere) a section for people who have been approved citizens, so I would think there is one for new PR holders.

They used to post a lot of PR announcements on the Immigration website, including even lists of names that had been approved at Immigration Commission meetings and were awaiting ministerial approval. Here is one such list re the class of 2005: http://www.immigrati...mit300806EN.pdf . Not long after that the wheels fell off and I don't see anything posted since then.

The lists of new citizens appear in the Royal Gazette but that is required by Nationality Act, whereas the Immigration Act doesn't require the same for new PRs.

Thanks. I could even find the list of 2005, how did you get this link?

[Mario2008]

The notices are in chronological order, I don't think you have to look more then 3 or 4 months back. So it might not be that much work.

[howzat]

Collected my Alien Book from Thong Lor Police Station. very good guy processed it in Three hours and very helpful.

In the red book rule 3 says temporary absence of more than 15 days a report has to be made to the police station within 3 days of arrival back in Thailand. Have I read this correctly.

Re Tabian Bahn.. don't forget to take two photographs for inclusion of your name in Blue Book and suggest to make appointment rather thanks just pitch up like I did.

[jayboy]

Collected my Alien Book from Thong Lor Police Station. very good guy processed it in Three hours and very helpful.

In the red book rule 3 says temporary absence of more than 15 days a report has to be made to the police station within 3 days of arrival back in Thailand. Have I read this correctly.

I noticed that too a couple of weeks ago.But it's surely in reference to a change of address in Thailand, not leaving the country (the previous para makes that clear I think).Others more expert than me can advise but with regard to the part you commented on (absence more than 15 days) I would be amazed if that was currently observed or monitored.I'm guessing it is inherited from the days when PR was mainly the process for Chinese immigrants - the fascinating back story we are indebted to Arkady and others for relating.

[Richardj]

I promised a friend I would write about my experience recently in getting my permanent residence. Some of it is maybe different from the original Camerata guide. First, I must give kudos to all Thai officers involved. In 25 years in Thailand, I have never met such a helpful group of government officers.

Wednesday - I went to the Immigration 1 office on Chaeng Wattana early in the morning and queued up waiting for the doors to open. Mistake number 1 - don't forget which country this is. People who wait in a queue are bound to be disappointed. The doors opened and it was a mad rush to the front.

Showed my letter at the main desk informing that I had my PR approved. Got a queue number and went to counter E2 - in fact a partitioned office with two desks and two female immigration officers . I had all the documents that are listed in the second page of the approval letter. Put them in the order that they were listed (always do this at government offices, it seems to help them). Signed each photocopy beforehand and don't forget "rap rong pen samnao took tong" in Thai i.e. I certify these are correct copies. The first lady went through them, looked at the passport to verify and wrote in some forms for me to sign.

In case someone here asks - I have changed my job since applying six years ago and they said this did not matter. It was the original application that was passed.

Took a thumb print for the residence certificate, which is the blue book. Don't forget the four 4x6 cm photos. Paid the money and got a receipt. They drew a line through my multiple re-entry permit to cancel it and said I should apply again before leaving the country. They took the landing card also.

Here is the first interesting part. The first lady explained that normally, I could come to collect the document the next day. I said I was going abroad that weekend and was a bit nervous about timing. She said I had waited 6 years so she would try to ensure I did not have to wait another day. If my wife had not been there, I would have kissed her. She had a lot of people waiting to see her so we went to an early lunch and went back to be told it was done. She gave me an official letter for the police station where I would go next to inform them they should issue the Alien Registration book.

My wife and I then went to a VIP room and waited, then they took photos of each PR recipient getting the blue book from another officer. Another surprise, the original officer gave me her name and mobile number on a piece of paper and both told me to call if I got any trouble with the next steps.

Mistake number 2: when they say please check the book for errors, check it word by word. I skimmed and read the Thai but overlooked the spelling of my own name in English, which was, I discovered later, wrong.

On to the local police station. The Taopun police station is the official station overlooking my area of Bangsue (not Bangsue police station; we had already asked the District Office) and actually has a section to deal with foreigners but the charming young policeman had never done an Alien Registration book before (the red book). I don't know if it was the fact I was wearing a necktie, but he was ever so polite and "kreng jai." I gave him the mobile number of the immigration officer but by then it was the official lunch break and she did not pick up. He asked us to leave everything with him and he would find out what to do and give my wife a call on her mobile when done. The next day - Thursday - he called her to say we should go to the police station on Friday morning. Arrived Friday morning and all the paperwork had been done. If my wife had not been there I might have kissed him. Another 4 photographs and thumb print in the book and it was done. Mistake number 3: read it all and not just the Thai. English name misspelled again but I seemed blind to the obvious.

On to the local district office (the "Khet") for the house registration. My wife had registered only a few days before as she is not from Bangkok. Here, things diverged from the guide. The gentleman handling the registration asked for a letter from Immigration. I said they had not provided one. He insisted they should have issued a letter for him. I gave him the mobile of the officer at Immigration and he called her but basically told her that he had no evidence to prove the PR and Alien registration were issued legally and someone on the phone could not be counted as evidence.

My wife rushed back home and came back with the original letter stating I had had my application approved and he accepted this (I have copies but hate letting go of the original). Please do not ask me how he could know it was not a fake, it was simply that he needed something to add to his list of evidence. He was actually following the procedure from a book open on the table, so he was really trying to ensure that the process would be signed off by his boss. Another two photos handed over but the wanted smaller photos than Immigration and local police so his assistant cut them down with a scissors and we were finished. We asked him about the two witnesses required according to the information I had. He said he did not require witnesses at all. Paper evidence was enough. He asked us to return after lunch and when we did it took a short time to complete everything and his boss descended from the heavens (actually the second floor) and signed off. The house registration is a blue book, not yellow. I am not sure if this is different from others but it is definitely a blue book.

Here is where you can learn from my last two mistakes. When I handed everything to my company's Government Liaison department, who take care of the re-entry visas, they spotted that my name in English had been spelled wrongly in both books. The Liaison guy said it wasn't difficult to correct the mistake (we have hundreds of expats here and a handful are permanent residents so he knows of what he speaks) but as I was in meetings all that day I got my driver to whisk the Permanent Residence Certificate and the Alien Registration, together with my passport, to my wife. Note that when two books have mistakes there is an order of precedence 1. local police station 2. immigration. I did ask why and he said if you go to immigration first, they will call the police station to get the spelling from them. Better to do it the right way round. The nice policeman used liquid paper to re-write my name correctly (my wife said) and made a note on the page and signed. Same at immigration, all without a hitch.

[Arkady]

Collected my Alien Book from Thong Lor Police Station. very good guy processed it in Three hours and very helpful.

In the red book rule 3 says temporary absence of more than 15 days a report has to be made to the police station within 3 days of arrival back in Thailand. Have I read this correctly.

I noticed that too a couple of weeks ago.But it's surely in reference to a change of address in Thailand, not leaving the country (the previous para makes that clear I think).Others more expert than me can advise but with regard to the part you commented on (absence more than 15 days) I would be amazed if that was currently observed or monitored.I'm guessing it is inherited from the days when PR was mainly the process for Chinese immigrants - the fascinating back story we are indebted to Arkady and others for relating.

That is correct. If you read the Thai version it is more clear that the rule refers to temporary moves within Thailand and that you are required to report your presence in the new police precinct within 13 days, if you intend to stay there for more than 15 days. I think this rule is probably effectively redundant but no one has ever bothered to repeal the police order or remove it from the stock of alien books that were probably printed in the 50s. I have never reported in this way but come to think of I can't remember ever moving to another district on a temporary basis for more than 15 days. Since the police no longer ask for the alien book as prove of identity, there is no way they would ever catch anyone out. These days the vast majority of aliens don't have alien books and they seem happy imposing the 90 day reporting, while controlling moves in and out of the Kingdom by PRs through the one year endorsements. I did once find myself in breach of the first part of Note 3 that requires reporting into the new police precinct within 7 days of a permanent change of address. I was fined the princely sum of Bt 100 for this serious misdemeanour!

[Arkady]

For new PRs getting their tabien baan for the first time I would advise going to the district office armed with evidence of your parents' nationality, as that information has to be entered in all tabien baans and they will not enter it just on your say so. When I got my first tabien baan, nobody had advised me that was important, since I hadn't brought any supporting documentation with me, the district office entered "nationality unspecified" next to my parents' names. I thought that was odd but never thought much about it until years later when I went to apply for Thai nationality and found it was a stumbling block. I then had to run around getting documentation to prove their nationality with certified and notarised translations to get the district office to enter their nationalities correctly. Since I had moved once I had to get the original record corrected in my original district office first before my existing tabien baan could be corrected. Maybe things have changed now but I doubt it.

Edited October 9, 2012 by Arkady

[Richardj]

For new PRs getting their tabien baan for the first time I would advise going to the district office armed with evidence of your parents' nationality, as that information has to be entered in all tabien baans and they will not enter it just on your say so. When I got my first tabien baan, nobody had advised me that was important, since I hadn't brought any supporting documentation with me, the district office entered "nationality unspecified" next to my parents' names. I thought that was odd but never thought much about it until years later when I went to apply for Thai nationality and found it was a stumbling block. I then had to run around getting documentation to prove their nationality with certified and notarised translations to get the district office to enter their nationalities correctly. Since I had moved once I had to get the original record corrected in my original district office first before my existing tabien baan could be corrected. Maybe things have changed now but I doubt it.

This is interesting. The district office asked for my parents names too, which my wife wrote in Thai on a piece of paper. The officer did NOT ask for evidence. When he asked me for their nationalities I said British and that is what he wrote. I am assuming, as is common in Thailand, that government officers have some leeway in how to do things. Oh, as my father's name was on my British wedding certificate (with a Thai translation) perhaps he took this as evidence?

By the way, I did tell the officer that both parents were deceased but if he was able to contact them, please let me know. For some reason, this caused everyone within earshot to roll on the floor laughing.

[Arkady]

For new PRs getting their tabien baan for the first time I would advise going to the district office armed with evidence of your parents' nationality, as that information has to be entered in all tabien baans and they will not enter it just on your say so. When I got my first tabien baan, nobody had advised me that was important, since I hadn't brought any supporting documentation with me, the district office entered "nationality unspecified" next to my parents' names. I thought that was odd but never thought much about it until years later when I went to apply for Thai nationality and found it was a stumbling block. I then had to run around getting documentation to prove their nationality with certified and notarised translations to get the district office to enter their nationalities correctly. Since I had moved once I had to get the original record corrected in my original district office first before my existing tabien baan could be corrected. Maybe things have changed now but I doubt it.

This is interesting. The district office asked for my parents names too, which my wife wrote in Thai on a piece of paper. The officer did NOT ask for evidence. When he asked me for their nationalities I said British and that is what he wrote. I am assuming, as is common in Thailand, that government officers have some leeway in how to do things. Oh, as my father's name was on my British wedding certificate (with a Thai translation) perhaps he took this as evidence?

By the way, I did tell the officer that both parents were deceased but if he was able to contact them, please let me know. For some reason, this caused everyone within earshot to roll on the floor laughing.

Nice one!

It seems that things have changed for the better on the parents' nationality issue or maybe it depends on the district office. It took me several entire days of running around to various offices to correct my parents' sorry stateless condition and cost enough for a decent night out.

[Dork]

Hey, thanks a lot for this.

I didn't know about the 1 year +5. In any case, I will ask them to speed it up.

I got the endorsement and re-entry permit from CW today and they didn't ask to see or even mention the Tabien Ban so it seems that no, you don't need to do that before you travel. You definitely do need the Alien Registration completed first though.

I was surprised at the Amphur to have my name entered into the Tabien Ban all in one go. Immigration had said that I would need to go backwards & forwards with a letter in order to complete the process but that no longer seems to be the case. Richardj's detailed post confirms that. I also (fortunately) didn't have any issue with Mother & Father's nationality as described by Arkady.

[camerata]

How long does it take to get the endorsement and re-entry these days?

[camerata]

For those of you leaving Thailand for the first time since obtaining PR, you ask for an embarkation/disembarkation card from the airline when you check in (sometimes they don't understand and ask why it isn't already in your passport). This is stapled into your passport by Immigration and taken out again on your return. It's the reverse of the normal procedure.

[Dork]

How long does it take to get the endorsement and re-entry these days?

Yesterday it took 30 minutes though maybe I was just lucky with the timing. The PR staff had previously said that if submitted early morning it would be ready by noon and same in the afternoon.

Another surprise for me was even that requires a thumb print. I had been wondering whether that strictly needed to be done each year in person.

[tombkk]

Hey, thanks a lot for this.

I didn't know about the 1 year +5. In any case, I will ask them to speed it up.

I got the endorsement and re-entry permit from CW today and they didn't ask to see or even mention the Tabien Ban so it seems that no, you don't need to do that before you travel. You definitely do need the Alien Registration completed first though.

I was surprised at the Amphur to have my name entered into the Tabien Ban all in one go. Immigration had said that I would need to go backwards & forwards with a letter in order to complete the process but that no longer seems to be the case. Richardj's detailed post confirms that. I also (fortunately) didn't have any issue with Mother & Father's nationality as described by Arkady.

You don't need to show the Tabien Ban for the endorsement. However, when I received my PR book, I was also handed a letter (in English) stating that I have to make the Alien Book within 7 days and the Tabien Ban within 14 days. So, if you are back within 14 days of receiving the PR book, I guess you are right that you don't need to do the Tabien Ban before departure.

[THAIJAMES]

Called immigration to enquire about applications for 2007. According to the guy there, no more signatures have been received from the ministry of the Interior. Once they did it would take about one month to process the the letters. So I guess if you did not get a letter, it will be a while until then next batch comes out. Maybe another 5 years

[Arkady]

How long does it take to get the endorsement and re-entry these days?

Yesterday it took 30 minutes though maybe I was just lucky with the timing. The PR staff had previously said that if submitted early morning it would be ready by noon and same in the afternoon.

Another surprise for me was even that requires a thumb print. I had been wondering whether that strictly needed to be done each year in person.

Used to be either a signature or a thumb print but after the move out to CW they decided to go hi tech and shoot for both.

[Brew]

First letter of ID card number, free translation

1 is for Thai nationals born in Thailand after 31 May 2527

2 is for Thai nationals born in Thailand but reported late (after the 15 days period expired)

3 is for Thai (allow foreigners too) who have name in tabien baan born before 31 May 2527

4 is for Thai (allow foreigners too) but never had ID card before

5 is for Thai who was approved to miss census (didn't join census but puujai baan etc guarantee person is Thai...)

6 is for person who illegally or legally immigrated to Thailand but has residency not officially accepted by officer

7 is for children of 6

8 is for foregners who legally come to Thailand and are allowed to stay permanently and foreigners who get Thai Nationality

Thanks for this one. Do you have a link to the Thai original?

http://www.scribd.com/doc/8966968/-13 but it's in Thai and you need to be a member to access

http://www.banprak-nfe.com/webboard/index.php/topic,631.0.html

[faranginbkk]

Got it! PR from the 2006 batch.

The process was quite easy in 3 steps: PR from the Chaengwattana Immigration Office. Then to the local police station (in my case Lam Luk Ka) to obtain the brown/red Alien Certificate, and finally to the municipal office to be inscribed in the Tabien Baan. One day for each - so in total I spent three days.

Now, I have to go back to Chaengwattana for the stamps, and hope everything is in order.

[tamvine]

Got it! PR from the 2006 batch.

The process was quite easy in 3 steps: PR from the Chaengwattana Immigration Office. Then to the local police station (in my case Lam Luk Ka) to obtain the brown/red Alien Certificate, and finally to the municipal office to be inscribed in the Tabien Baan. One day for each - so in total I spent three days.

Now, I have to go back to Chaengwattana for the stamps, and hope everything is in order.

Congrats to 2006 and it so proves 2007 batch onwards have a long wait ahead....

[tombkk]

First letter of ID card number, free translation

1 is for Thai nationals born in Thailand after 31 May 2527

2 is for Thai nationals born in Thailand but reported late (after the 15 days period expired)

3 is for Thai (allow foreigners too) who have name in tabien baan born before 31 May 2527

4 is for Thai (allow foreigners too) but never had ID card before

5 is for Thai who was approved to miss census (didn't join census but puujai baan etc guarantee person is Thai...)

6 is for person who illegally or legally immigrated to Thailand but has residency not officially accepted by officer

7 is for children of 6

8 is for foregners who legally come to Thailand and are allowed to stay permanently and foreigners who get Thai Nationality

Thanks for this one. Do you have a link to the Thai original?

http://www.scribd.com/doc/8966968/-13 but it's in Thai and you need to be a member to access

http://www.banprak-n...opic,631.0.html

In my entry in the Tabien Ban, my ID number indeed starts with an 8. I did not even know that I had a Thai ID number. Did the TB officer assign this? Was I supposed to get a letter informing me of my new Thai ID number?

[tombkk]

Got it! PR from the 2006 batch.

The process was quite easy in 3 steps: PR from the Chaengwattana Immigration Office. Then to the local police station (in my case Lam Luk Ka) to obtain the brown/red Alien Certificate, and finally to the municipal office to be inscribed in the Tabien Baan. One day for each - so in total I spent three days.

Now, I have to go back to Chaengwattana for the stamps, and hope everything is in order.

Congrats, mate!

[camerata]

The Citizen's ID number is assigned at the District Office and put on your tabien ban. They don't inform you about it and you probably wouldn't notice until you apply for a driving licence and they put it on there instead of your passport number.

[skyaslimit]

The Citizen's ID number is assigned at the District Office and put on your tabien ban. They don't inform you about it and you probably wouldn't notice until you apply for a driving licence and they put it on there instead of your passport number.

Hi

I need a lit bit of guidence, I recieved PR on 15/10/12, went to police station and got my red book on 18/10/12, went to district office on 19/10/12 and waiting the process to be completed. Should I have to report the CW for any thing ( in my case I am not leaving thailand in near future), do I still have to make any type of endorsments in CW?

[tombkk]

The Citizen's ID number is assigned at the District Office and put on your tabien ban. They don't inform you about it and you probably wouldn't notice until you apply for a driving licence and they put it on there instead of your passport number.

Thanks. Does this also apply for other situations in which they now use the passport number, e.g. bank account?